Unbeliveably ironic

[mikeyw64]

That's illegal and they should have been arrested and charged.   All this does is make things worse.

or does it?

Gives the local administrations a good excuse to take any statute us down and put them in a rarely visited wing of a museum on the pretext they are preventing damage to a valuable work of art

[mikeyw64]

well if the glove fits..........

P.S. Mike, this is a clear example of what one cannot say in America any longer. In fact, I expect a large (hehehe) group of 'gravitationally challenged' people to be at my house tonight, waving pitchforks and torches and demanding "the insensitive one's" hide.

[VirginiaJim]

or does it?

Gives the local administrations a good excuse to take any statute us down and put them in a rarely visited wing of a museum on the pretext they are preventing damage to a valuable work of art

And there isn't anything wrong with that as far as I'm concerned but this kind of vigilantism is wrong no matter what side you're on.   There's ways to do things in this country and it's through process of law.   There are Civil War memorials all over the state in each county in Virginia.  I visit quite a few of those counties in my line of work.  I can't say I've seen any memorializing any northern generals/officers/soldiers.

[gPink]

Gary, you included a quote from Max, and used my name...hence the huh?

Thanks for the correction and my apologies for the inaccuracy.

[VirginiaJim]

 

[mikeyw64]

And there isn't anything wrong with that as far as I'm concerned but this kind of vigilantism is wrong no matter what side you're on.   There's ways to do things in this country and it's through process of law.   There are Civil War memorials all over the state in each county in Virginia.  I visit quite a few of those counties in my line of work.  I can't say I've seen any memorializing any northern generals/officers/soldiers.

Does the statue of Abe & his son in Richmond not count then

[VirginiaJim]

Not as far as my last statement they don't.   Never seen them.  However, I did say that I haven't seen any Northern Generals/officers/soldiers honored.  President Lincoln and his son are neither of those...    

[maxtog]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_Avenue

"[...]punctuated by statues memorializing Virginian Confederate participants of the Civil War [...] is listed on the National Register of Historic Places as a National Historic Landmark District [...] named one of the 10 Great Streets in the country."

And for those interested in some of other landmarks in the Old Dominion (Virginia is packed full of rich history):  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Historic_Landmarks_in_Virginia

[mikeyw64]

Not as far as my last statement they don't.   Never seen them.  However, I did say that I haven't seen any Northern Generals/officers/soldiers honored.  President Lincoln and his son are neither of those...

But surely as President he was Supreme Comander

[VirginiaJim]

Maybe, but still a civilian..

[B.D.F.]

Yep, though the actual title is Commander in Chief (FDR would sign his notes to his generals / military staff with 'C in C' when he wanted to show he was not debating, he was instructing). The President of the US has sole, exclusive and virtually unlimited control over the armed forces, at least outside of nuclear weapons, so that puts him (so far him but it could be her) directly into the military structure, at least as far as I can tell.

No matter, the idea is identical anyway: the entire group of Confederate leaders, whether they are military or civilian, are revered in the South (generally, not by everyone with a ladder and a rope, obviously), not really followed much in the North, and the reverse is even more true; Northern leaders are generally reviled in the South. So in the end, that statue of Mr. Lincoln in Richmond, VA, is amazing. Not so much that it was put there but that it is STILL there. There must be a 24/7/365 watch on that thing or I would expect it to be in the bottom of that river long before now.

Just as an FYI: virtually all of the war was fought in the South (Gettysburg, PA, being a very unusual exception), so it was the Southern civilians and property that suffered along with the actual combatants. And it was a particularly harsh war, with a huge amount of 'retribution', cruelty had simple excess. The depth of the Southern hatred of Northerners can be summed up, at least it is for me, in a statement given to Gen. Joshua Chamberlain, US Army, by Gen. Wise, CSA, at the formal surrender as the Southerners surrendered their arms and battle flags: “You may forgive us but we won’t be forgiven. There is rancor in our hearts…which you little dream of. We hate you, sir.”

It has been over 150 years since the end of that war, although reconstruction lasted until 1877, and the entire civil rights era started in the late 1950's and raged for several decades. But there are still deep rifts, at least in attitude and thought, between the two sections of the country and I believe a true animosity to this day in the Southern states WRT the Northern people (the "Damn Yankees").

As a result of all of this yes, that statue is a real rarity. In fact, I did not know about it until your post and was amazed to see it when I looked.

Brian

But surely as President he was Supreme Comander

[B.D.F.]

It is spreading.... clearly the civic leaders of many communities are now moving to remove Confederate statues in a clear effort to avoid protests and riots in their own cities.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/workers-remove-baltimore-confederate-monuments-overnight-105623389.html

Baltimore, MD, removed at least some of their statues of Confederates in the middle of the night, no doubt to be 'stealthy' and not attract attention by either side, although the pro- statue' people are the ones who would be cranky about this.

Brian

[gPink]

We need to trim back Mt Rushmore.

[B.D.F.]

You mean just get rid of the Confederate presidents carved there?

Although, now that you mention it, two of those Presidents were slave holders, and a third one stole a number of colonies from the Spanish and made them US possessions (is that another word for colony?). We should probably stop looking pretty soon or we may find other American heroes with flaws and some bad behavior in their lives (say it isn't so!).

Brian

We need to trim back Mt Rushmore.

[mikeyw64]

Always a pleasure to be of assistance

As a result of all of this yes, that statue is a real rarity. In fact, I did not know about it until your post and was amazed to see it when I looked.

Brian

[VirginiaJim]

  Yeah, right.

[B.D.F.]

Well, this whole issue is going nuclear, all across the South by the looks of things. Now it seems to be turning into a free- for- all for those who want to 'correct' all the 'wrongs' regarding statues everywhere.

Also saw this headline:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charlottesville-target-alt-right-jewish-mayor-emerging-national-voice-120253532.html

File that one under things that make ya' go 'huh'. Not quite sure how the mayor of that city got to be a hero by not doing anything about the riots in his city but instead blaming the leader of the Federal Gov't for [not] saying something that the mayor thinks he should have said. ?? What might be those magic words that would have altered the course of the events of last weekend one iota? "Stop it"? "Everybody go home"? It boggles the mind....

Anyway, I guess the new method is:

1) Everyone loves everyone.
2) If someone is [different, non- conforming, non mainstream, and 'not average'], they must be loved, both privately and publicly, even more.
3) Anyone who does not love everyone is hateful, horrible and must be savaged in all ways possible, up to and including those outside the law. Clearly, these people are not and cannot be part of the group including 'everyone'.
Special note here: at first, numbers 1 & 2 may not seem compatible with 3 but it must be understood that those who are in charge of determining who is to be hated are immune from rules 1 and 2, and in fact are even MORE lovable for dumping hatred, abuse and as much punishment as possible on those in group 3. Also, while some things such as The Constitution at first glance seem to support the rights of people in group 3 to believe, think, and even speak whatever they want, that is not correct. The Constitution only protects those speaking out AGAINST those in group 3.
4) All of these rules are retroactive and apply to all in the past.
5) All people are subject to instantaneous change from being of no consequence to category 3, from which there is no escape, end to any and all corrective actions needed to put them squarely and firmly into categories 1 or 2.
6) Once deemed to be in category 3, no person or group can ever escape from that category.
7) To paraphrase Eric Blair (as George Orwell), 'All people are equal, but really only those on the left are equal. Those anywhere else are despicable'.

Normally a moderate, all of this garbage is driving me further and further away from the center. Either that, of 'the center' is going further and further left, with a side- order of obnoxious prejudice and hatred for dessert. I have been thinking about moving toward the middle of the country (both physically as well as figuratively, they seem to meet-up) but now I am thinking about looking into moving to 1957 and going into the asbestos / mercury / lead paint distribution business.

Brian

[dude412]

Well, this whole issue is going nuclear, all across the South by the looks of things. Now it seems to be turning into a free- for- all for those who want to 'correct' all the 'wrongs' regarding statues everywhere.

Also saw this headline:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/charlottesville-target-alt-right-jewish-mayor-emerging-national-voice-120253532.html

File that one under things that make ya' go 'huh'. Not quite sure how the mayor of that city got to be a hero by not doing anything about the riots in his city but instead blaming the leader of the Federal Gov't for [not] saying something that the mayor thinks he should have said. ?? What might be those magic words that would have altered the course of the events of last weekend one iota? "Stop it"? "Everybody go home"? It boggles the mind....

Anyway, I guess the new method is:

1) Everyone loves everyone.
2) If someone is [different, non- conforming, non mainstream, and 'not average'], they must be loved, both privately and publicly, even more.
3) Anyone who does not love everyone is hateful, horrible and must be savaged in all ways possible, up to and including those outside the law. Clearly, these people are not and cannot be part of the group including 'everyone'.
Special note here: at first, numbers 1 & 2 may not seem compatible with 3 but it must be understood that those who are in charge of determining who is to be hated are immune from rules 1 and 2, and in fact are even MORE lovable for dumping hatred, abuse and as much punishment as possible on those in group 3. Also, while some things such as The Constitution at first glance seem to support the rights of people in group 3 to believe, think, and even speak whatever they want, that is not correct. The Constitution only protects those speaking out AGAINST those in group 3.
4) All of these rules are retroactive and apply to all in the past.
5) All people are subject to instantaneous change from being of no consequence to category 3, from which there is no escape, end to any and all corrective actions needed to put them squarely and firmly into categories 1 or 2.
6) Once deemed to be in category 3, no person or group can ever escape from that category.
7) To paraphrase Eric Blair (as George Orwell), 'All people are equal, but really only those on the left are equal. Those anywhere else are despicable'.

Normally a moderate, all of this garbage is driving me further and further away from the center. Either that, of 'the center' is going further and further left, with a side- order of obnoxious prejudice and hatred for dessert. I have been thinking about moving toward the middle of the country (both physically as well as figuratively, they seem to meet-up) but now I am thinking about looking into moving to 1957 and going into the asbestos / mercury / lead paint distribution business.

Brian

Amen

[maxtog]

No matter, the idea is identical anyway: the entire group of Confederate leaders, whether they are military or civilian, are revered in the South

That is just not correct.  MOST people in "the South" couldn't give a rat's a** about the ancient Confederacy and certainly don't revere the military leaders.

(generally, not by everyone with a ladder and a rope, obviously), not really followed much in the North, and the reverse is even more true; Northern leaders are generally reviled in the South.

Also not true.  Just another ancient and inaccurate stereotype.  That's like saying everyone in "the West" is a raving, ultra-liberal socialist.  Or everyone in "the North" loves child labor.

So in the end, that statue of Mr. Lincoln in Richmond, VA, is amazing. Not so much that it was put there but that it is STILL there. There must be a 24/7/365 watch on that thing or I would expect it to be in the bottom of that river long before now.

As I said, ancient and inaccurate stereotypes... Especially regarding Virginia, which is barely even "South".

[maxtog]

Amen

+2