Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: Strawboss on August 02, 2014, 07:48:45 PM
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I think this is a terrible idea. All the safeguards in the world are not going to contain this virus. Being a paramedic I know about transfer of disease, "its difficult for the common person to get it as its spread by direct contact of urine, feces, or blood, so people that are health care workers and first responders are most at risk". That's the official line to subdue panic. That line covers just about every single virus on earth. Bad idea. And while we're at it, why not post the address and security codes and the guard schedule and room number where the victim who has contracted the most deadly virus known to man that has no vaccine or cure. Its so secure we're told, like tesla's computers right? Bad idea. It will come to haunt us in the future.
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I agree about the virus- the most lethal disease known with some strains showing a 90% fatality rate.
As to bringing it to the US, that is a 'mixed bag' IMO. The virus is not easily transmitted and we (the US ) certainly does have the capacity to handle the virus. Besides that, the CDC already has it in at least two places in the US so it is here and being 'tinkered' with before that physician was brought here. On the other side, it does have that incredibly high lethality rate and there is no treatment for it (other than for gross symptoms like dehydration but the course of the disease itself cannot be altered by man). And of course the Russians have had it 'get away' a couple of times in scientific accidents..... which I would like to think would be far less likely to happen here.
As far as those two people being brought to the US, they are Americans and contracted the disease through the proper and legitimate execution of their profession, which is always a possibility. I understand you concern and believe it has merit but I think bringing home Americans for the best treatment possible after contracting a disease or condition while giving humanitarian aid was / is the most correct thing to do. Not without risk of course, just the most just method I can think of given the circumstances.
All of this assumes that it is in fact NOT an airborne disease. There is some doubt about the method of transmission, especially of one particular strain but only because the method of infection was never known with certainty. That leaves airborne transmission as a possibility. Still, even that can be contained with reasonable certainty given proper conditions and equipment.
Brian
I think this is a terrible idea. All the safeguards in the world are not going to contain this virus. Being a paramedic I know about transfer of disease, "its difficult for the common person to get it as its spread by direct contact of urine, feces, or blood, so people that are health care workers and first responders are most at risk". That's the official line to subdue panic. That line covers just about every single virus on earth. Bad idea. And while we're at it, why not post the address and security codes and the guard schedule and room number where the victim who has contracted the most deadly virus known to man that has no vaccine or cure. Its so secure we're told, like tesla's computers right? Bad idea. It will come to haunt us in the future.
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The whole thing makes me nervous.
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Squeeze your fob a little tighter Jim and think good thoughts....
Hemoragic fever ain't never been exposed to KiPass, and I think I know which one will win (all hail KiPass).
Brian
The whole thing makes me nervous.
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Who had the final decision to bring the virus to this country?
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Why don't you look that up and let us know... ;) I'm thinking the CDC had a big role in it.
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From what I've read, this was a nongovernmental decision. Nobody ask permission to bring a new infectious disease into this country. Since nobody asked there was nobody to say no. A truly :censored: up way to do things but par for the course these days.
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I guess that the nuclear weapons are being readied just in case...
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I guess that the nuclear weapons are being readied just in case...
Well, it is Atlanta after all....
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I do not believe anyone has to be asked before bringing virtually anything into the country. I believe the way the Constitution (the by- laws of the US as far as I know) assume everything / everyone / every entity entry into the US unless specifically prohibited. Sort of like free speech; you can say anything you want, without asking anyone permission, unless the thing you want to say has been specifically addressed and made illegal to say (such as yelling fire in a public place but that too is only illegal if there IS NOT A FIRE at that time).
If someone must be asked before a virus could be brought into the country, no one with the latest strain of influenza ('the flu') could be transported into the US, which is so common as to be a non- issue. And that begs the following questions: who is it that should be asked? Who is it that has any authority to refuse entry without a specific statue preventing said behavior?
Brian
Who had the final decision to bring the virus to this country?
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Are you suggesting that we all be tested for viruses upon trying to gain entry into the US, and then have a decision on whether we can proceed into the US or not based on some person (or some group- perhaps a triumvirate, they always work out well, historically speaking) opinion / whim?
I am an American, born and bred, and I think I have a fair understanding of our laws as well as the intent of those laws. To the best of my knowledge, no one (person, agency or entity) can base the ability of a US citizen to enter the US based on whim.
Brian
From what I've read, this was a nongovernmental decision. Nobody ask permission to bring a new infectious disease into this country. Since nobody asked there was nobody to say no. A truly :censored: up way to do things but par for the course these days.
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All that is no doubt the correct position to take but I think will stick to my god given right to hold a narrow minded opinion on this.
I also have the same opinion of people who think it's alright to hike in hills of Iraq and Iran, those who decide to be a tourist in North Korea and others who make life altering decisions that don't turn out well.
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Are you suggesting that we all be tested for viruses upon trying to gain entry into the US, and then have a decision on whether we can proceed into the US or not based on some person (or some group- perhaps a triumvirate, they always work out well, historically speaking) opinion / whim?
I am an American, born and bred, and I think I have a fair understanding of our laws as well as the intent of those laws. To the best of my knowledge, no one (person, agency or entity) can base the ability of a US citizen to enter the US based on whim.
Brian
There doesn't have to be a test for this. They already have been confirmed as having the virus. This is a lethal disease. What if the plane crashes on US soil? What if the helicopter or vehicle taking them to the hospital has an accident? Can you imagine the consequences of this disease getting loose here? Maybe I've seen too many movies with viruses getting loose. I just think it's a very bad idea when there is no cure, to bring them over here.
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Yes, I can imagine- it is not very transmissible. The general disease family has a very high lethality rate but an extremely low infection rate.
All of that is really quite irrelevant as the Constitution does not recognize 'dangerous' as a condition of entry into the country as far as I know. Anyone is free to like / dislike the idea but we are a nation of laws and principle (well, mostly) and the two questions remain: 1) what law(s) are in place to regulate the entrance to the country of a citizen based on health and or diseases carried. And 2) if there are any such laws or regulations (and I do not believe there are), who or what entity is it that makes the decision (who to allow entry into the US based on health) and what authority does he / she or they act under?
I understand what you guys are saying, and it is not that I do not agree or disagree with you: I simply do not believe it is a government function to regulate US soil entry for citizens based on health, diseases carried or any other physical condition. How about ugly? Should we let ugly Americans re- enter the country? Sure that sounds like a joke but it is not: the basis is the same. Sure the person with a virus may pose a hazard but as far as I know, posing a potential hazard IS NOT illegal.
I believe trying to regulate the condition of the US citizens that may enter the country is akin to censorship: should we not have some person or agency somewhere deeming what reading material may be harmful for us and prohibit its distribution? The Constitution and the US Supreme Court have answered that question and the answer is no. I personally do not want anyone screening what I may read, see, hear, smell, touch or anything else. I personally would not accept anyone in my country telling any other citizen that he / she COULD NOT re- enter the US because he / she may pose a health threat. IMO it is not a fine line either, it is the very premise and base of our entire way of life.
Personally I think there are people who should not be driving as they pose an unacceptable risk to ME and people I personally know but without cause, those people cannot be stopped from doing something because I (or anyone else outside a statue and previous cause, as in a previous DUI or similar) do not have the ability to restrict another person's behavior based on any level of 'potential damage'.
Free speech is never a problem unless we disagree with what the speaker is saying and then it is a true test of the system.
Brian
There doesn't have to be a test for this. They already have been confirmed as having the virus. This is a lethal disease. What if the plane crashes on US soil? What if the helicopter or vehicle taking them to the hospital has an accident? Can you imagine the consequences of this disease getting loose here? Maybe I've seen too many movies with viruses getting loose. I just think it's a very bad idea when there is no cure, to bring them over here.
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...And 2) if there are any such laws or regulations (and I do not believe there are), who or what entity is it that makes the decision (who to allow entry into the US based on health) and what authority does he / she or they act under?
This ctl-V from http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html (http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html)
"The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.
The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."
And that is the law today, whether we like it or not.
If this doesn't apply here, I don't know what does. The CDC authorized their entry. The patient(s) are being admitted into a CDC-sponsored quarantine facility. It is a hazard that will hopefully be successfully managed, but if something goes wrong, the department of heath and Human Services will have to answer some tough questions, as well as the executive power to which they report.
I hope no one catches ebola, and everyone survives, and the CDC comes up with a vaccine using these patients as Petry dishes. The possibility of a vaccine is the one thing that justifies taking the risk because of the lives it would save.
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Excellent- a statue that certainly does seem to apply to this situation. Thanks for posting that; I appreciate the opportunity to learn something and better understand a situation like this.
Now as I read that, the 'day to day' operation is given to the CDC. Given this particular quote "Tom Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which is based in Atlanta right near Emory, told Fox News on Sunday that Dr. Brantly "appears to be improving, and that's encouraging." ", it would appear that the CDC is well aware of this person's re- entry into the US. So I believe that answers all the questions, at least as I understand them: Who has the authority to regulate a person(s) entry into and travel through (through states)? The CDC effectively, and that agency has rendered an answer in this case.
Just as an aside, the groups responsible for those two people's transportation and treatment in the US are the charities that they worked for in Liberia, treating Ebola victims in the recent outbreak there (two separate charities). Apparently those agencies thought it in the best interests of both patients that they be returned to the US for the best treatment possible.
Not that it matters of course but I personally think it was a 'good call' and am happy to have them back in the US. Certainly there is risk but let's be reasonable here- these are not zombies spreading their..... zombiism (or is that zombiness?) around like on a bad TV show. For whatever it is worth, all of the hemmoragic fevers live in a very narrow band of latitude in Africa and are extremely rare diseases under any circumstances; with proper equipment and care, there is no reason to expect that these cases cannot be readily contained in medical facilities in a modern, first- world nation. It is not reasonable IMO to expect an Ebola virus outbreak in Atlanta under any circumstances but especially when the carrier patients were received with it known they were infected with this virus. In other words, it is not like these two people got off a plane at Hartsfield airport and walked to another terminal after getting a coffee....
Brian
This ctl-V from http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html (http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html)
"The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.
The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."
And that is the law today, whether we like it or not.
If this doesn't apply here, I don't know what does. The CDC authorized their entry. The patient(s) are being admitted into a CDC-sponsored quarantine facility. It is a hazard that will hopefully be successfully managed, but if something goes wrong, the department of heath and Human Services will have to answer some tough questions, as well as the executive power to which they report.
I hope no one catches ebola, and everyone survives, and the CDC comes up with a vaccine using these patients as Petry dishes. The possibility of a vaccine is the one thing that justifies taking the risk because of the lives it would save.
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The CDC...OK, I feel much better knowing a responsible government agency has everything under control. Move along. Nothing to see here.
Two Centers for Disease Control and Prevention labs shut down after anthrax scare amid fears workers were accidentally exposed to live virus
Major safety crackdown at nation’s highest-level biosecurity labs in Atlanta
Follows numerous problems including scares with anthrax and deadly bird flu
Comes days after the discovery of six forgotten vials of smallpox virus in a laboratory building at the National Institutes of Health campus in Bethesda, Maryland
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
PUBLISHED: 12:44 EST, 11 July 2014 | UPDATED: 21:31 EST, 11 July 2014
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I didn't need to see this. I'm going back outside and sticking my head back in the sand.
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I didn't need to see this. I'm going back outside and sticking my head back in the sand.
+1 :-\
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Relax Gary, put a fresh battery in your fob and you'll feel better by morning. :-) Besides, the anthrax is gonna' get ya' long before the Ebola so there you go.
;D
Brian
The CDC...OK, I feel much better knowing a responsible government agency has everything under control. Move along. Nothing to see here.
Two Centers for Disease Control and Prevention labs shut down after anthrax scare amid fears workers were accidentally exposed to live virus
Major safety crackdown at nation’s highest-level biosecurity labs in Atlanta
Follows numerous problems including scares with anthrax and deadly bird flu
Comes days after the discovery of six forgotten vials of smallpox virus in a laboratory building at the National Institutes of Health campus in Bethesda, Maryland
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
PUBLISHED: 12:44 EST, 11 July 2014 | UPDATED: 21:31 EST, 11 July 2014
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:) another thread delivers :thumbs:
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You know what, there are some really, and I mean really, REALLY, nasty things out there.... germinating and mutating and standing by to really cause us (humans) some trouble. Some of the things I too wish I was not aware of.
There are two relatively new strains of tuburculosis out there, one is MDR or multi- drug resistant and is almost impossible to cure and the treatment is almost worse than the disease. The other strain is no longer treatable. And TB is extremely transmissible from person to person. Both types are prevalent in Africa and NOT in any first- world nations. I fear this will change suddenly though one day when 'that guy' gets infected, does not know it, flies back to the US or Sweden or Germany..... or worse yet, through ALL of those countries and begins a viral spread that cannot be contained. It is estimated that at one point in history, 1 human in 4 died from TB; I can see where that would be considered a low number with modern air travel.
It is estimated that the 'Spanish Flu' pandemic of 1918 killed somewhere between 50 and 100 million people worldwide.... and that was before rapid travel such as by airplane! Today, that same virus would take out a significant portion of the world's population I fear.
There are those who believe it is not a question of if but when the next pandemic wipes out a good portion or all of humanity. The mathematical models do bear this out (the process is called 'doubling' and it is the same underlying math that explains thermonuclear devices for example).
Antibiotics are becoming less and less effective every single day, exactly as was predicted back in the 1940's. Today there are many bacteria that are either drug resistant or simply not treatable.
Ebola is nothing to worry about. Wanna' scare yourself? Study up on some of the models of some deadly and also highly contagious viral spreading scenarios.
Dem dare tamper proof food and medicine product containers ain't gonna' save us methinks. Depressing, ain't it?
Brian
I didn't need to see this. I'm going back outside and sticking my head back in the sand.
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Pushing head deeper into the sand with hands over my ears and yelling nonsense...
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Pushing head deeper into the sand with hands over my ears and yelling nonsense...
(http://www.coolthings.com.au/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/la-la-la-not-listening.jpg)
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I'll get me one of those as well.
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Not a bad response Jim. Being 100% serious here: that is the only doomsday scenario that ever bothered me in the least (fast moving, high lethality virus). I grew up in the cold war and never, ever, not even for an instant was I worried about the nuclear exchange that worried everybody else. I am not in the least concerned about some big thing (comet, asteroid, rock, whatever) hitting Earth- I mean, whatcha' gonna' do about it? But for whatever reason, I see the world- wide viral thingy as both possible and a bit unnerving. I am not losing sleep over it but it is the only that causes me to imagine how it would play out and it is never pretty.
Then again, I always thought Hannibal Lecter was far, far scarier than, say, Michael Myers et. al, simply 'cause I can imagine Lecter actually existing (his real name was Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy and Harold Shipman and.... well, I don't know what the next one's name is.... yet).
The problem with viruses is that they evolve into different things over time. So a virus that is merely an annoyance or perhaps has absolutely no symptoms will mutate over time and become something that may be even more benign or..... horribly deadly. If you want to read a real horror story, Google '1918 flu pandemic'. Shiver me timbers.
Brian
Pushing head deeper into the sand with hands over my ears and yelling nonsense...
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And just to update the thing that started this whole thread, the person who was the cause of this thread, Dr. Kent Brantly, is improving. Generally that does not happen with this disease in those patients who die from it so..... it looks perhaps like the man will survive.
And by the way, he was treated by being transfused with plasma from another Ebola victim that survived the disease in the belief that he would receive antigens from that other patient after he had been exposed to the virus.
Brian
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:yikes: just :yikes: This could be that I've had one beer and am somewhat tipsy. Yes, I'm a cheap drunk.
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An aside...a man in NYC is currently being tested for the virus. He just got back from West Africa.
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:censored: !
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And just to update the thing that started this whole thread, the person who was the cause of this thread, Dr. Kent Brantly, is improving. Generally that does not happen with this disease in those patients who die from it so..... it looks perhaps like the man will survive.
And by the way, he was treated by being transfused with plasma from another Ebola victim that survived the disease in the belief that he would receive antigens from that other patient after he had been exposed to the virus.
Brian
I only assume that was the exact reason for them bringing him back here... he's a "white" lab rat in the truest sense of the word.... what better experiment could you have than a specimen, who was exposed to every domestic germ that nobody that contracted ebola has... they had to figure sumpin' might be up.....
Bes'be listernin' to dat album by dat Frank Zappa boy, called ThingFish, but dem esperimnz goeenon in some sekret labmatory underneeth Virginia.... das rite folkz, rejecting the cologna into da duodeenum ob de unsuspktin victim done rendered him immortal.... jes like da sissy boyz an' da Mammy nunz....
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Approaching Twit status?
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I admire the efforts to save the person's life. However, on the larger scale, we as a collective society tend to make some very bad, ill-considered decisions that come back to bite us. I really, really hope they can contain this, as well as save the victim. Reminds me of this classic movie:
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While things are looking up for the good doctor, I feel it is my duty to tell you folks that an Ebola victim, seemingly fully recovered, can and has shown significant Ebola virus strands in his semen for up to two months after all other symptoms disappear.
I myself am not concerned about this but I know some of you folks are a bit apprehensive about this whole 'Ebola in the US' thing and let's face it, forewarned is forearmed in so many situations. Caveat emptor.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Brian
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If anyone truly believes the virus has never been on US shores, well, they be twit minded. He deserves the same opportunities currently being given to the current influx of "Displaced Immigrants" at the very minimum, at least his conditions are known >:(
Brian, that you knew about the life cycle of Ebola in semen belongs in another thread!!!!
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Honestly, I had no idea where to stick my semen..... comments.
Ebola (the virus itself, not infected humans) has been at the CDC for quite a while; I have seen the shepherd's crook viral stands from CDC S.E.M. images certainly before the year 2000.
Brian
If anyone truly believes the virus has never been on US shores, well, they be twit minded. He deserves the same opportunities currently being given to the current influx of "Displaced Immigrants" at the very minimum, at least his conditions are known >:(
Brian, that you knew about the life cycle of Ebola in semen belongs in another thread!!!!
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There are two relatively new strains of tuburculosis out there, one is MDR or multi- drug resistant and is almost impossible to cure and the treatment is almost worse than the disease. The other strain is no longer treatable. And TB is extremely transmissible from person to person.
Thanks for reminding me that due to the shortage of the PPD tests, NY has put employee testing (normally done annually or semi-annually in my department) on hold for the foreseeable future. :o
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Funny but that is the only thing I am concerned with when buying and using vintage razors- TB. The nasty viruses won't survive the transport via USPS- AIDS, Hep-3 and the new terror on the block, Ebola or any other virus. Bacteria is not much of a problem either and can be easily washed off with soap. But anything spore based can survive for decades.... literally! Given the prevalence of TB in the past, I think it is a valid possibility that I could purchase a razor 100 or more years old, shave with it, nick myself and grab a no expense 'extra' of tuberculosis :-( Because of that alone, all my shaving gear gets a 10 minute bath in Barbacide both on the way in and on the way out of my house.
My sympathies with you and what you do Jon- it really would be a b!&ch to catch a dose of TB through no fault of your own.
Brian
Thanks for reminding me that due to the shortage of the PPD tests, NY has put employee testing (normally done annually or semi-annually in my department) on hold for the foreseeable future. :o
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Here is a link to a very good article on the whole Ebola-in-the-US hysteria thing. It's a science-based article, and if you have don't have time to read it, you can rest easy, Ebola isn't a big threat to us in the US of A.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ebola-outbreaks-science-versus-fear-mongering-and-quackery/ (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ebola-outbreaks-science-versus-fear-mongering-and-quackery/)
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Yet..
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Yet what?
As stated earlier, the Ebola virus only seems to survive in a narrow longitudinal band found in Africa and some parts of Asia. Also, the virus is transmitted via body fluids, just like HIV or SARS, and our hospitals here are very familiar with dealing with the protocols used in treatments for those patients.
It's extremely unlikely that any of us here in the US are at risk.
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All it would take would be someone coming from Africa via other destinations or stowing away as an illegal immigrant or crossing the border illegally. It's only a matter of time before it gets here unaccompanied by any sort of protections. We're wide open.
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Wow, too bad someone didn't mention that earlier in the thread..... oh wait, I did! :-)
Ebola is found only in a very narrow climate range. It would either not do well here or more likely, just not survive at all.
Oil threads have proven to be far more of a problem here in the US.
Brian
Here is a link to a very good article on the whole Ebola-in-the-US hysteria thing. It's a science-based article, and if you have don't have time to read it, you can rest easy, Ebola isn't a big threat to us in the US of A.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ebola-outbreaks-science-versus-fear-mongering-and-quackery/ (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ebola-outbreaks-science-versus-fear-mongering-and-quackery/)
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I think you are missing the how that would play out, Jim.
Someone from Africa gets to the US and is infected with Ebola. Before said human gets too ill to function, he / she walks around, shaking hands, buying and drinking coffee, eating in restaurants..... So what? He / She will not transmit the disease without some type of bodily fluid contact. But let's think the worst: this fellow is dashingly handsome and likes to visit.... 'houses of ill repute'. How many people can he infect? 10, 20, 30? How many people can they in turn infect? A few hundred? No matter- the virus is self limiting in its spread because of the transmission mechanism. This is exactly why AIDS and Hepatitis C have not cut down hundreds of millions of people; the disease simply cannot spread among enough people to cause a pandemic. And those diseases allow the victim to live for YEARS, not weeks, so they can infect a lot more other people and still they have no entered mainstream populations on any significant basis.
Let me put it this way: are you afraid of getting AIDS Jim? Hepatitis C? And we know both of those diseases are all over the place in the US. But old, boring, sport touring riding grunts like us are simply not at risk (OK, some ridiculously low risk but really....) for those diseases. You are at far less risk of getting Ebola. We are more in the "I've fallen and I can't get up" while drunk circles. The media is making a big deal out of this- don't let them lead you down the terror path by the brass ring they expect to find in you nose.
Brian
All it would take would be someone coming from Africa via other destinations or stowing away as an illegal immigrant or crossing the border illegally. It's only a matter of time before it gets here unaccompanied by any sort of protections. We're wide open.
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Convincing arguments but I'm not convinced.... color me skeptical. I truly hope that you are right, though.
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If I'm hysterical about the Ebola virus coming to the U.S. via an infected doctor simply because of an opinion formed by someone who has read that article, a scientifically based one at that, that says we have nothing to worry about, well, as I said, being a paramedic and being somewhat paranoid about being exposed to everything has kept me in good stead these 28 years, call me hysterical, I've been called worse, but don't call me late for dinner. ;D It will be years before we even know if this was a sound decision, by then it will be too late.
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Well, if we can discuss this rationally, let's look at this: AIDS has been in the US since 1980, right? It is absolutely a risk for anyone in the medical community, including you being an emergency services provider, but IT IS NOT a threat to the GENERAL PUBLIC. Now I think we can all agree on that one. AIDS simply does not get into the general population and spread there. Sure there have been a few cases but it just has not gotten to be anything even close to an epidemic and has even become less of a threat over the years due to education, very simple medical procedural changes (dentists now wear gloves, etc.).
But if you folks remember, the media made a big deal out of AIDS back in the olden' days too- it sounded like we were all going to have it before the next weekend, remember?
But when the 'Flu' hits a modern country, it spreads through the population like wildfire. That is because it is spread by airborne transmission, not direct contact with bodily fluids (easy boys!). But the lethality rate of Influenza (most strains) is low so not a huge number of people die as a result.
The one that is scary, from a general society point of view, is the virus that is spread via airborne transmission AND has a high lethality rate such as the "Spanish Flu" of 1918 (which was not in any way Spanish).
Ebola, AIDS, Hepatitis C and similar viruses are very delicate and are not easily transmitted. Therefore they are simply not much of a threat to the population as a whole.
Hey, I am all for worrying one's little socks off like Mary Jane Tinklepants but let's at least pick something worth worrying about. I mean honestly, this is a motorcycle forum where virtually all of us ride motorcycles..... Ebola ain't the thing posing the big hazard to us methinks.
Brian
If I'm hysterical about the Ebola virus coming to the U.S. via an infected doctor simply because of an opinion formed by someone who has read that article, a scientifically based one at that, that says we have nothing to worry about, well, as I said, being a paramedic and being somewhat paranoid about being exposed to everything has kept me in good stead these 28 years, call me hysterical, I've been called worse, but don't call me late for dinner. ;D It will be years before we even know if this was a sound decision, by then it will be too late.
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And besides everything else, aren't you at least the littlest bit happy that maybe, just maybe, your idiot- brother- in- law has to worry about Ebola when he is handcuffing / searching people too?
:rotflmao:
Brian
If I'm hysterical about the Ebola virus coming to the U.S. via an infected doctor simply because of an opinion formed by someone who has read that article, a scientifically based one at that, that says we have nothing to worry about, well, as I said, being a paramedic and being somewhat paranoid about being exposed to everything has kept me in good stead these 28 years, call me hysterical, I've been called worse, but don't call me late for dinner. ;D It will be years before we even know if this was a sound decision, by then it will be too late.
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We could all just take up a tobacco habit.
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Can't do tobacco....will just drink myself more senseless than usual.
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And you're scared of Ebola? ?? ??? Really??
;D
Brian
<snip>
....will just drink myself more senseless than usual.
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Convincing arguments but I'm not convinced.... color me skeptical. I truly hope that you are right, though.
Brian and I hope we are right, too! :-*
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And you're scared of Ebola? ?? ??? Really??
;D
Brian
;D
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AIDS, Ebola, and Hep C is and does pose a threat to the general public, and to say they are not airborne is misleading because if they weren't why the total encapsulation suits worn by the victim and the health workers. Care to sit next to someone with Ebola who's coughing and hacking all over the place next to you? AIDS is a bit different as its mostly spread by sexual contact, mostly. Ebola is direct contact, meaning hands, feet, spittle, splashes, rags soaked in fluids, toilets, handles, etc... Think of the number of health care workers and providers and first responders there are in this country alone, that includes all police, guards, highway patrol, jail guards and all workers there, CERT teams, firefighters, paramedics, RN's, LPN's, all workers in all hospitals, full time, part time, auxillary, volunteers, all their families and all the people they come in contact with, that's not even including any secondary medical workers that include dentists, therapists, social workers, etc.... Still think it doesn't pose a threat to the general public just because its only located in a small strip of land in another continent? Well, the disease may be locally to there but we now have victims infected right here in the U.S. If you think that all the people I listed above are NOT part of the general public then you must live in a very isolated area.
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First to answer your question: yes I would sit next to or in some other reasonable way (NOT CPR, transfusion, etc.) try to render aid to a human I knew had any of those three diseases. I do not believe I would render such close aid to a person I knew to be infected with TB for example, and would insist on a complete barrier between us.
And I agree that AIDS and Hepatitis C are spread exclusively through bodily fluid and that very simple, reasonable precautions are entirely effective in controlling the risk of transferring either one barring the obvious problem of being wounded, bitten, etc. by one who is infected with either / both of those two.
And I further agree that less is known about Ebola transmission. It is <believed> to also be spread ONLY by the same bodily fluids as the first two mentioned but there are doubts, especially with specific strains that medical personal contracted (by a nurse back in the '70's I believe) without any known transmission path. That leaves the question that the hemorrhagic fevers, or at least some specific strains ARE transmitted without exchanging bodily fluids. That said, to the best of my knowledge, Ebola is NOT transmitted through casual contact with other people. If I were a medico (and I am not) I would insist on full spacial separation (the 'space suit') before coming into contact with any Ebola victims, including the bodies of them.
But this is an awfully specific circumstance and not representative of any real risk to the population of the US IMO. For all the reasons discussed already, Ebola will not become an epidemic or even a statistical problem in the US, again in my opinion. I am not dismissing any fear of contagion, I simply do not think Ebola is one to be worried about; I think MDR T.B. is a much, much bigger threat in the US, as well as everywhere else.
No, I do not think Ebola can "get loose" in a medical setting and become an epidemic in the US or any other first- world nation. As I have already mentioned, it is too difficult to transmit, it causes illness far too quickly (compare this to AIDS where a victim may have it for months / years without knowing it) and is just too delicate a disease for that to happen. There are simply some communicable diseases that can reach epidemic proportions (or even pandemic) and some that cannot. Ebola is one of the 'cannots'.
I do sympathize with you and what your job exposes you to and I am not brushing that risk off at all whatsoever. I just do not think you are ever going to have an Ebola patient that you do not already know is carrying that disease anywhere near you, never mind inside an ambulance. T.B. on the other hand, is a real possibility. And while T.B. does not carry the lethality of Ebola, it is still a deadly disease that is becoming less and less treatable every day.
Brian
AIDS, Ebola, and Hep C is and does pose a threat to the general public, and to say they are not airborne is misleading because if they weren't why the total encapsulation suits worn by the victim and the health workers. Care to sit next to someone with Ebola who's coughing and hacking all over the place next to you? AIDS is a bit different as its mostly spread by sexual contact, mostly. Ebola is direct contact, meaning hands, feet, spittle, splashes, rags soaked in fluids, toilets, handles, etc... Think of the number of health care workers and providers and first responders there are in this country alone, that includes all police, guards, highway patrol, jail guards and all workers there, CERT teams, firefighters, paramedics, RN's, LPN's, all workers in all hospitals, full time, part time, auxillary, volunteers, all their families and all the people they come in contact with, that's not even including any secondary medical workers that include dentists, therapists, social workers, etc.... Still think it doesn't pose a threat to the general public just because its only located in a small strip of land in another continent? Well, the disease may be locally to there but we now have victims infected right here in the U.S. If you think that all the people I listed above are NOT part of the general public then you must live in a very isolated area.
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I'm confused, you'd want a space suit to treat someone but then you say you don't have a problem with someone having it near you then you say you aren't worried about it spreading to anybody cause its just too hard to spread all the while professing no knowledge of medical practices. Well ok, you do that. The problem with your comments are they are not rooted in the real world. You can't have it both ways. As I said, this is not something that will spread in two weeks. This will take years to come about and we will hear stories about tissue samples disappearing, and chain of custody policies and rules not being followed, sloppy record keeping etc....We obviously disagree about transfer of infectious diseases and treatment of people with those diseases so I'll close here and allow you to have the last word as I really don't care anymore what you think concerning this subject. Bye.
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And it was getting so very interesting... :'(
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Wow Dave, and I thought we were having a discussion. ?? I guess maybe I was having a discussion and you were.... whatever you were doing.
For whatever this is worth, I still am not dismissing your concern for your own personal safety and wish you all the best in your job and sincerely do hope that you never have any health problems associated with being an EMT.
Brian
I'm confused, you'd want a space suit to treat someone but then you say you don't have a problem with someone having it near you then you say you aren't worried about it spreading to anybody cause its just too hard to spread all the while professing no knowledge of medical practices. Well ok, you do that. The problem with your comments are they are not rooted in the real world. You can't have it both ways. As I said, this is not something that will spread in two weeks. This will take years to come about and we will hear stories about tissue samples disappearing, and chain of custody policies and rules not being followed, sloppy record keeping etc....We obviously disagree about transfer of infectious diseases and treatment of people with those diseases so I'll close here and allow you to have the last word as I really don't care anymore what you think concerning this subject. Bye.
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Hey, we can still discuss it Jim.... I mean you're still a little scared, right?
:rotflmao:
I guess I am just looking at this issue in a very remote and logical way while Dave has a very significant vested interest. And of course I understand his concern for his personal safety. I do not work in the medical or emergency areas and so in that in mind I will absolutely say that I can have any opinion on this matter without any personal risk, while Dave cannot.
Still, I believe this issue is a little bit broader than what might be best for any / all health care professionals. Sorta' like speeding- I don't like getting the tickets but have to admit that society would be worse off if there were no speed limits. The absolute safest way to proceed for any health care professional is to move them away from any and all sick or possibly sick people. That may not be the best course for the society as a whole though.
Brian
And it was getting so very interesting... :'(
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I used to be an EMT and one of the reasons I got out of it was the fear of catching something I didn't want to have.....that and my fear of needles.
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The absolute safest way to proceed for any health care professional is to move them away from any and all sick or possibly sick people.
This statement begs for clarification.
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Wow Dave, and I thought we were having a discussion. ?? I guess maybe I was having a discussion and you were.... whatever you were doing.
Brian
I don't think it was as much a discussion as it was two people with differing opinions voicing their thoughts.
Some people seem to be willing to accept that people will have different opinions than them, and allow them to, and some people seem to keep pushing their opinion on others, time, after time, after time, until they get the other person to see it their way or turn the "discussion" into a heated argument.
On the topic of the post, I fall into the category of opinion as the guy with the sword and the EMT.
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If individual safety for medical safety is the goal, the best possible thing for all of them would be to move them a great distance away from sick people. In other words, it is not particularly safe for surgeons to operate on AIDS paitents because the Dr. has a huge risk of receiving a nick or a cut while covered in that patient's blood. So the safest thing for a surgeon to do is to simply refuse to operate on AIDS patients. And anyone with Hepatitus C. And any other blood- borne disease. Well, the big picture would be to simply move all the medical personal away from any sick people at all, or even those who <may> be sick. So in the interests of medical personal safetly, we better put a good deal of distance between those medical personal and the public.
The problem with that is that effectively medical treatment would stop. Which is great if medical personal safety is the only goal but mix in PUBLIC HEALTH into the fray and it gets more complicated.
Therein is the root of this entire discussion I believe: A week or so ago we did not have any Ebola patients in the US. Two US citizens contracted the disease and were brought back to the US for treatment. Some people (go to the beginning of this thread) did not want those people brought into the US because it may give greater exposure to "us" than we had before to this deadly disease.
I reject that argument on the grounds that absolutism is rarely a good answer to a problem. We have auto accidents and auto fatalities in the US (what 40,000 + a year?). Want the easy, absolute solution? Ban cars. But that only addresses the problem of auto caused injury without viewing any of the benefits or needs of automobile travel. Not a very practical solution IMO.
And as to the thought that Ebola will 'get away' and spread all over the country (i.e., an epidemic), no one with any knowledge of the methods of disease transmission believe that can possible happen, at least that I have found from any legitimate source. Again, I think we (the public) are mixing up reality with the latest Zombie movie. Nuclear power plants cannot generate a nuclear explosion (going super- critical) either but 1) they sure can in the movies and 2) I believe most people believe they can do so.
Brian
The absolute safest way to proceed for any health care professional is to move them away from any and all sick or possibly sick people.
This statement begs for clarification.
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What I'm getting here is the notion it's somehow wrong to start with the most extreme precautions and then move towards more mainstream treatment as knowledge and surety of containment is assured. Given that human beings are the nastiest, least naturally hygienic animals on the face of the earth I believe that it is wise and proper to follow the survival instinct until proven unnecessary.
But hey, if you want to get a card game going in the quarantine ward the more power to you. They could probably use the company.
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A week or so ago we did not have any Ebola patients in the US. Two US citizens contracted the disease and were brought back to the US for treatment. Some people (go to the beginning of this thread) did not want those people brought into the US because it may give greater exposure to "us" than we had before to this deadly disease.
My 2 cents worth is this...
They are US citizens correct?
What else should we do with them?
Abandon them or bring them home where they can receive the benefit of being US citizens?
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What's being done here that wasn't being done where they were?
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What's being done here that wasn't being done where they were?
Here they have indoor plumbing....
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Well, there is that of course...
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Wow, a voice of reason. Like a ray of sunshine I tells' ya'.
Brian
My 2 cents worth is this...
They are US citizens correct?
What else should we do with them?
Abandon them or bring them home where they can receive the benefit of being US citizens?
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I can't even believe you typed that Gary.
Where would you rather have your appendix taken out, anywhere in the US or Liberia. They gots' sharp knives in both places so what would be the difference?
Brian
What's being done here that wasn't being done where they were?
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Your incredulity that I asked the question does not answer it. I have yet to hear a valid medical reason for the infected people to be brought to this country. It's my understanding the fatality rate is as high as 90%. Unless the magic elixer works there is no known cure or treatment to facilitate recovery. So the question stands.
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Well, I almost cannot believe I am answering this but.... better care.
The overall health care in the US is better than it is in Africa. (surprise!) Intensive care, around- the- clock attention, treatment of every possible situation that arises from the poor condition of the patient. While we (humans) cannot treat viruses specifically, we can greatly aid a patient suffering from a virus: we can maintain hydration, balance electrolytes, maintain respiration up to and including actually causing respiration to happen, counteract high body temperatures that often result from a severe infection (betcha' they can't do that in 'the bush'), re- start a normal rhythm in a heart that has gone into fibrillation, etc., etc., ad nauseum. In short, better care than any third- world country that I am aware of, especially outside of whatever major hospitals may be available there (and I do not believe those Americans were operating in a major hospital in Africa).
The morbidity rate of Ebola is so high at least in part because there is little to no care for the patients who have it.
And, as Rich said earlier, it treating patients in the US provides an opportunity to study the disease's progress, note its specific stages and the results of each stage and begin to develop useful treatments for the patients of the disease if not the actual virus. How many blood gas analyses do you think there might be available in huge parts of Africa?
I am not a liberal, bleeding- heart or otherwise. I am not naive and do not think that happy thoughts or blowing sunshine up our collective skirts is going to do any good. But we are all stuck here on this rock together, and we have formed and live in societies for better AND worse. I think the day of leper colonies and forming angry mobs with pitchforks and torches to find and punish the [witch, sorcerer, [put ethnic / religious group here], demons, et. al] are over. Time to move in a different direction and work toward more profitable (and I do not necessarily mean money) pursuits. Standing on some imaginary line with sticks poking the 'bad' people and trying to keep them 'away' just won't work anymore IMO.
Brian
Your incredulity that I asked the question does not answer it. I have yet to hear a valid medical reason for the infected people to be brought to this country. It's my understanding the fatality rate is as high as 90%. Unless the magic elixer works there is no known cure or treatment to facilitate recovery. So the question stands.
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So a softer mattress and a prettier nurse?
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http://www.bu.edu/today/2014/tracking-the-virus/ (http://www.bu.edu/today/2014/tracking-the-virus/)
A simple version of how transmittable diseases spread and how outbreaks occur, including epidemics and pandemics.
The last two paragraphs of the article are most useful to the discussion that has been going on here:
<begin quote>
How do you feel about the media coverage of this outbreak? What are the media getting wrong?
The sources I have been reading have been pretty accurate and seem careful. I think that some articles and headlines I have seen have been trying to over-sensationalize the transport of two sick Americans to Atlanta for care. The threat to the US public is negligible. The key take-home point is that transmission requires contact with bodily fluid from an infected person or contact with an object contaminated with this fluid. The special units in which these individuals are cared for are designed to eliminate this risk.
Could Ebola thrive here or would we be better able to contain and stop it?
I think that any model considering this would show that Ebola would not spread here. And I think that most would agree that the likelihood of this outbreak spreading outside of Africa is very small.
<end quote>
Brian
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Well if BU Today says it's ok, than it must be ok, right?
I don't think the media would ever mislead us ... would they?
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Just a follow- up....
ATLANTA (AP) - Calling it a "miraculous day," an American doctor infected with Ebola left his isolation unit and warmly hugged his doctors and nurses on Thursday, showing the world that he poses no public health threat one month after getting sick with the virus.
Dr. Kent Brantly and his fellow medical missionary, Nancy Writebol, who was quietly discharged two days earlier, are still weak but should recover completely, and no one need fear being in contact with them, said Dr. Bruce Ribner, who runs the infectious disease unit at Emory University Hospital.
Brian
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Just thought it's time to :deadhorse:
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been at days 7-9 for some time ::) I think I'll skip the anal bleeding stage, sounds, well, my body can't bleed for 7 days out of the month and survive ;)
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And now, unfortunately, we are going to see the 'other side of the coin'.
This thread was started with regard to a pair of American medical personal, infected with Ebola in Africa and then flown to the US for treatment.
Now we have the first known case of Ebola diagnosed IN the US and brought here with no scientific supervision or isolation of any kind- apparently the man just flew to the US after contracting the Ebola virus. And ended up in Texas, which just may be hot enough to sustain that virus....
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/02/us-health-ebola-usa-idUSKCN0HP2F720141002 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/02/us-health-ebola-usa-idUSKCN0HP2F720141002)
Brian
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We'll see where this goes. He should never have been let into the country. Anybody traveling from that part of the world should be stopped from entering our borders but it's a bit late now.
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We'll see where this goes. He should never have been let into the country. Anybody traveling from that part of the world should be stopped from entering our borders but it's a bit late now.
Only caught it in passing but I thought I heard that he was indeed questioned and had temp taken at some international airport; as part of routine he answered the questions asked of him and had no fever so unless they start a 21 day quarantine on anyone and everyone coming out of one of the known countries there is no way to know....
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Something like 13000 active US visa holders in west Africa. Passports...belief of cure in America....no working quarantine protocol for entering this country.....We live in interesting times.
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Truth or fiction:
http://www.naturalnews.com/047089_ebola_pandemic_government_lies_disinformation.html (http://www.naturalnews.com/047089_ebola_pandemic_government_lies_disinformation.html)
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Exactly- there is no way to stop incoming diseases / conditions without the use of non- negotiable quarantine. Even then, the incubation period of some diseases is long enough that quarantine would not be practical (assuming it would be even for one full day (24 hours), which I doubt would be nearly long enough to be useful).
England does not have rabies on the island and they are anxious to avoid it- wisely so IMO. Try getting a dog into the UK- automatic quarantine with few, if any, work- arounds (random dogs being brought into the UK as pets). And the quarantine is fairly long for rabies at 21 days, where would '21 days worth' of people entering the UK go? Who would pay for that?
1.19 billion (yep, billion) tourists visited the US in 2005 alone. How many of them would visit if there was a 10 day or longer quarantine?
And as far as restricting people from entering from a particular point of origin, that would be far easier.... when it worked. If I am not mistaken, I believe the guy referenced in the Reuters article traveled through Europe to get here.
Brian
Only caught it in passing but I thought I heard that he was indeed questioned and had temp taken at some international airport; as part of routine he answered the questions asked of him and had no fever so unless they start a 21 day quarantine on anyone and everyone coming out of one of the known countries there is no way to know....
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We'll see where this goes. He should never have been let into the country. Anybody traveling from that part of the world should be stopped from entering our borders but it's a bit late now.
+1
Liberia is going to prosecute him when he returns according to the news. He lied and said he hadn;t come in contact with anyone with the Ebola.
(like he'll ever return!)
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I think that he knew he was going to get it and wanted to come here for treatment. Can't really blame him for that, but his family is now quarantined and under house arrest, effectively. What about that apartment? It's sure to be infected with it and what happens to the waste water that goes into sewage treatment? Does it carry the disease?
Just heard one of the film crew from NBC that was over there came down with it. They're on the way back here. Yet another chance to spread it over here. I'm not happy about this whole thing.
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A big problem for me is that something like ebola will become the suicide vest of the near future.
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Could very well be...
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A big problem for me is that something like ebola will become the suicide vest of the near future.
^^^^^^^Many are surprised it hasn't been already
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^^^^^^^Many are surprised it hasn't been already
Some are sure it already has...
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/993890-ebola-conspiracy-biological-warfare-in-us-rumors-emerge-roundup/ (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/993890-ebola-conspiracy-biological-warfare-in-us-rumors-emerge-roundup/)
http://www.hngn.com/articles/44428/20141002/ebola-virus-outbreak-2014-conspiracy-theories-suggest-u-s-targeted-africa-with-the-disease.htm (http://www.hngn.com/articles/44428/20141002/ebola-virus-outbreak-2014-conspiracy-theories-suggest-u-s-targeted-africa-with-the-disease.htm)
Bunk - I say. Never attribute to planned malevolence what can be attributed to nature or personal greed.
Jamie
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I was thirty years or more figuring that out. I would never believe anyone or worse, everyone could be so stupid as to cause [put bad behavior here]. But it really is true- stupidity and its much more powerful cousin, apathy, can and has caused far more damage than the most evil of humans.
Back to the Ebola thing- I still do not believe it can become an epidemic in the US but we sure can suffer some spots of growth. I think this is going to turn out like 9-11 did; the actual and outright cost is minimal compared to the ongoing cost of trying to prevent / reduce the next similar event. And who knows, this may cause social changes we cannot even see coming: what if as a general group, we become wary of forming groups due to the possibility of spreading disease(s)? I wonder what that is going to look like in 10, 20 years?
Brian
Bunk - I say. Never attribute to planned malevolence what can be attributed to nature or personal greed.
Jamie
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I was thirty years or more figuring that out. I would never believe anyone or worse, everyone could be so stupid as to cause [put bad behavior here]. But it really is true- stupidity and its much more powerful cousin, apathy, can and has caused far more damage than the most evil of humans.
Back to the Ebola thing- I still do not believe it can become an epidemic in the US but we sure can suffer some spots of growth. I think this is going to turn out like 9-11 did; the actual and outright cost is minimal compared to the ongoing cost of trying to prevent / reduce the next similar event. And who knows, this may cause social changes we cannot even see coming: what if as a general group, we become wary of forming groups due to the possibility of spreading disease(s)? I wonder what that is going to look like in 10, 20 years?
Brian
Everyone will only meet virtually such as FB or this place.
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Pushing head deeper into the sand with hands over my ears and yelling nonsense...
Finally! We now know what VirginiaJim looks like! (http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f134/ck409/headinsand_zpsc5b68d0c.jpg~original)
Where is the Sword now? :chugbeer:
It ok now! Rush just said (and I agree 110%) there is a man in Howard Univ. Hosp. in Washington DC! that is being tested for Ebola. If he has it, it will get 10 billion dollars thrown at it in 2 day. When the :hitfan: anywhere near Congress, they get on it right away! So we are all probably ok now. Thanks to the guy in Howard U. Hospital! :yikes: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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He's looking for it, cause he knows you hid it while he was taking a nap.
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Everyone will only meet virtually such as FB or this place.
Hmmm....
I've caught a pretty nasty farkling bug since joining up here.... ;D
Jamie
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He's looking for it, cause he knows you hid it while he was taking a nap.
No way.
The guy with the sword never sleeps. So I'm told, anyways. Sometimes it appears he's napping, but he's just letting us make fools of ourselves.
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Yeah but that is not a disease or 'bug' but rather a disorder. And there is no amount of isolation that will fix that one.... Let's face it, if we were stranded on a desert island, we would probably spell out "Need new grip covers" on the beach for passing plane to spot it. Pathetic but true.
Brian
Hmmm....
I've caught a pretty nasty farkling bug since joining up here.... ;D
Jamie
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/05/us-health-ebola-usa-patient-idUSKCN0HT0MZ20141005 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/05/us-health-ebola-usa-patient-idUSKCN0HT0MZ20141005)
I'm sure most of you have seen this already.
Some kind sole has offered up his private residence for the victims exposed to Thomas Eric Duncan.
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All right Gentleman, this whole dog and pony show has reached a new level of bad. It appears that those in charge of the fedgov are at best criminally negligent or quite possibly criminally insane. Is this gov trying to deliberately spread disease and panic?
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All right Gentleman, this whole dog and pony show has reached a new level of bad. It appears that those in charge of the fedgov are at best criminally negligent or quite possibly criminally insane. Is this gov trying to deliberately spread disease and panic?
One never knows, but wouldn't put it past any of our governments nowadays. The super rich rule the planet.....they be the PHARMACEUTICAL (who wouldn't stand to make any profit from this, haven't cured anything since Polio), oil and food corporations who all are in cahoots'! Just a conspiracy theory:(
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So now instead of containing the known infected nurses in Dallas, they move them around the country so more exposure possibilities. Spread the fear around. That's a great containment plan.
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So now instead of containing the known infected nurses in Dallas, they move them around the country so more exposure possibilities. Spread the fear around. That's a great containment plan.
fify
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Personally, I think we're safer with them at facilities where they know what they're doing instead of where they were. Sounds like it was a cluster F... in Texas...at least from the news stories I'm hearing. What worries me though, is the idiot safety guy with absolutely no protective gear with the clipboard that they're showing videos of moving the second nurse.
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As long as we don't have a dozen ebolites we're good....
US Has Capacity for 11 Ebola Patients at Specialized Hospitals
ABC News - 14 hours ago
There are four hospitals with biocontainment facilities in the United States, and they have 11 beds that can be used at any one time for Ebola patients, officials told ABC News. Four of those beds are currently being occupied by Ebola patients.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/us-capacity-11-ebola-patients-specialized-hospitals/story?id=26251721 (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/us-capacity-11-ebola-patients-specialized-hospitals/story?id=26251721)
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That is a concern for sure.. My personal thoughts are to stop anyone from entering the country from the affected countries but I don't think that's going to happen. All the mucky mucks are saying don't panic :yikes: but when someone who contracts this has to be put in total isolation and everyone has to be in hazmat suits to treat them and it has a high fatality rate if not in isolation or treated in time, I do think it's time to put the brakes on anyone coming from that area to be stopped from entering the country.
What are they going to do if someone from Africa comes in a flight and has a temp? Quarantine everyone on that flight and anyone in the terminal with them? Do they have an isolation hanger for the aircraft? I don't think that they've really thought this one thru.
Personally I wouldn't want to be on any aircraft with someone from that neck of the woods, temp or not. And yes it does sound like I'm :yikes: but I think we're only at the early stages of this affecting our country and based on what happened in Texas I have no confidence in any local hospital handling anything remotely infectious. I think I'll just go put my head in the sand.
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It's the open borders/unrestricted flights crowd that has it's collective head
up it's a$$ in the sand.
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I agree with the concept of "DON'T PANIC". 4 cases do not make an epidemic here in the US. That said it is only common sense to stay ahead of this thing and keep contained. I think we should do the following:
1. No direct commercial flights from stricken areas
2. Put in place protocols for charter flights to screen and quarantine if necessary
3. Cancel all new visa's for non-citizens from stricken countries
4. Screen/quarantine protocols for citizens returning from stricken countries
This is not panicking, this is keeping it contained while it is still small in this country. In 1918, less than 100 years ago, a flu pandemic took the lives of 50 million people world wide. 25% of the US was effected. Ebola is an order of magnitude more deadly. 70% mortality rate. Don't panic but lets stay ahead of this thing.
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Cruise anyone...
Texas Hospital Worker Who May Have Handled Ebola Samples Is on Caribbean Cruise
NBCNews.com - 20 mins ago
A Texas hospital lab supervisor who may have handled fluid samples from Ebola victim ...
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/texas-hospital-worker-who-may-have-handled-ebola-samples-caribbean-n227971 (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/texas-hospital-worker-who-may-have-handled-ebola-samples-caribbean-n227971)
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I heard that story this morning. As if cruise ships aren't bad enough already....what the hell was this person thinking, other than her own satisfaction?
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Nothing too see here - Move along.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/man-death-aboard-plane-africa-briefly-sparks-ebola-fears-article-1.1976465 (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/man-death-aboard-plane-africa-briefly-sparks-ebola-fears-article-1.1976465)
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I heard that story this morning. As if cruise ships aren't bad enough already....what the hell was this person thinking, other than her own satisfaction?
I guess that they were thinking the same way that the nurse was thinking when she went to Cleveland...
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Just tripped over this article and I think it sums up our situation regarding Ebola very well: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/19/disease-history-vs-disease-hysteria.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/19/disease-history-vs-disease-hysteria.html)
I especially like the paragraph: "So far, from Dallas to Dulles, one out of every 110 million Americans have contracted Ebola here in the states. Of those, none have died."
Reminds me of SNL back in the mid- 70's when they use to proclaim something to the effect.... ' for over a fiftieth of a century!' (that's two years but it sure sounds better when related to centuries).
Brian
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In the interest of keeping threads current.... Ebola as an STD... seems as 'they' new this and decided to withhold the info... What else might 'they' be withholding?
Health
Ebola lingers in semen for nine months
By James Gallagher
Health editor, BBC News website
Ebola persists in the semen of male survivors much longer than previously thought, a study shows.
The report in the New England Journal of Medicine found two-thirds of men had Ebola in their semen up to six months after infection, and a quarter after nine.
A separate study, in the same journal, reports Ebola being spread through sex with a survivor six months after their symptoms had started.
Men who have survived Ebola are being encouraged to wear condoms.
Previous outbreaks of Ebola had shown the virus was present in semen for 82 days after the onset of symptoms.
However, with huge numbers of Ebola-survivors now in West Africa, there is concern about how long the virus persists and if that poses a threat.
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Apparently, not just semen, either.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=nurse+with+ebola (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=nurse+with+ebola)
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Oh great- now Monica Lewinsky won't even be able to get her clothes dry cleaned 'cause nobody will want to handle them.
Brian
In the interest of keeping threads current.... Ebola as an STD... seems as 'they' new this and decided to withhold the info... What else might 'they' be withholding?
Health
Ebola lingers in semen for nine months
By James Gallagher
Health editor, BBC News website
Ebola persists in the semen of male survivors much longer than previously thought, a study shows.
The report in the New England Journal of Medicine found two-thirds of men had Ebola in their semen up to six months after infection, and a quarter after nine.
A separate study, in the same journal, reports Ebola being spread through sex with a survivor six months after their symptoms had started.
Men who have survived Ebola are being encouraged to wear condoms.
Previous outbreaks of Ebola had shown the virus was present in semen for 82 days after the onset of symptoms.
However, with huge numbers of Ebola-survivors now in West Africa, there is concern about how long the virus persists and if that poses a threat.
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She was ahead of the curve wasn't she?
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She was ahead of the curve wasn't she?
She certainly was "ahead" of something, I guess.
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She certainly was "ahead" of something, I guess.
If I understand correctly, she was head of the head department :o
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In the interest of keeping threads current.... Ebola as an STD... seems as 'they' new this and decided to withhold the info... What else might 'they' be withholding?
Health
Ebola lingers in semen for nine months
By James Gallagher
Health editor, BBC News website
Ebola persists in the semen of male survivors much longer than previously thought, a study shows.
The report in the New England Journal of Medicine found two-thirds of men had Ebola in their semen up to six months after infection, and a quarter after nine.
A separate study, in the same journal, reports Ebola being spread through sex with a survivor six months after their symptoms had started.
Men who have survived Ebola are being encouraged to wear condoms.
Previous outbreaks of Ebola had shown the virus was present in semen for 82 days after the onset of symptoms.
However, with huge numbers of Ebola-survivors now in West Africa, there is concern about how long the virus persists and if that poses a threat.
Is this the disease that dictates that one should not have sex with a mosquito?
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I think it's from bush meat. "I told you not to eat the damn monkey!" :pukeface:
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That statement right there really needs a nuclear grade Easy Boys!
Brian
I think it's from bush meat. "I told you not to eat the damn monkey!" :pukeface: