Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Zman on August 07, 2013, 01:23:11 PM
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Throwin' it out there, Up-shifting is smooth and easy without clutch.......... is it good or bad for the bike? I use the clutch always to downshift............
What do you think?
Z
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If you could shift perfectly with no load on the transmission, it probably would not be bad. I can't think of a single scenario where it would be 'good' for the bike.
Risk/Return tradeoff: for those times when you don't manage to do it perfectly, you run the risk of major transmission damage over time. What's your return for doing that, less wear and tear on your fingers?
Although I've shifted without using the clutch on both cars and bikes to see if I could do it (and to get home one time when a VW van popped it's clutch cable), I don't normally do it in order to make the transmission last as long as possible. If I'm going to wear something out, clutch discs are cheaper and easier to replace than transmissions.
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I Clutchless shift alot. I use the clutch 1st to 2nd, and downshifting. it works great, nice smooth qiute shifting.
take a look at this video. It will explain hoe to do it properly.
Clutchless gear changing, gear shifting or upshifting. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdrUj1KqNRI#ws)
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Hoe?
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Rarely use the clutch on an upshift. Always use the clutch on a downshift. Never had an issue.
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Throwin' it out there, Up-shifting is smooth and easy without clutch.......... is it good or bad for the bike? I use the clutch always to downshift............ What do you think?
Clutchless shifting doesn't hurt the bike at all, either up or down, as long as it is smooth. Of course, downshifting clutchless is difficult, so I rarely do that. But I upshift all the time without a clutch after 2nd. It is quite common.
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Hoe?
Hey, my bike didn't come with a hoe. WTF
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Hence my query... An unofficial accessory.
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Can we get the hoe to wash the bike?
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Hoe with a clutch? :o
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTx8Y1aVKCS8dYKGUTxx0L6yc3XStlTQARuf8ALmzsj3inoBvlO)
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Hoe with a clutch? :o
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTx8Y1aVKCS8dYKGUTxx0L6yc3XStlTQARuf8ALmzsj3inoBvlO)
:battle:
Pud
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Routinely up and downshift clutchless. Becomes second nature. Working on 56,000 miles on the '14.
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Hoe with a clutch? :o
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTx8Y1aVKCS8dYKGUTxx0L6yc3XStlTQARuf8ALmzsj3inoBvlO)
:battle:
Pud
? Not your sister is she?
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I always use the clutch on my C14. On my Z1000, I will once in a blue moon (or at the drag strip) not use it for upshifts.
Several years ago, however, my clutch cable broke! That was not a fun time learning how to downshift on the spot in stop and go traffic... .
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Upshift without the clutch is possible because we have what was one termed shift dogs that act as a brake between one gear and the other. The dogs work against the momentum or torque to synchronize one gear to the other. The dogs work with and without the clutch being activated but here is the kicker, the more they have to work the faster they wear. The worst example is say you are preparing to shift without the clutch and you start to put pressure on the shifter but you are still on the throttle for period of time before you drop the throttle back and the bike upshifts. All the time you have pressure on the shifter those dogs are wearing. I will ask one question, would you treat your brakes in this fashion? Sometimes understanding is the boobie prize in life.
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[...]here is the kicker, the more they have to work the faster they wear. The worst example is say you are preparing to shift without the clutch and you start to put pressure on the shifter but you are still on the throttle for period of time before you drop the throttle back and the bike upshifts. All the time you have pressure on the shifter those dogs are wearing. I will ask one question, would you treat your brakes in this fashion?
No, but I don't treat my transmission in that fashion, either. One shouldn't clutchless upshift while still on the throttle, and should start pushing on the shifter until the it the correct time/rev to shift. And under those PROPER conditions, it should cause no more wear than using the clutch. Theoretically, it should produce less wear in total, because there is no wear on the clutch...
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Though I am sure you can do it without damaging anything, I'm not sure what you gain. You could always just pull the clutch just until it disengages instead of pulling it all the way to the bar, you can shift a lot more smoothly that way and quicker. I have clutchless shifted in the past, but just pulling the lever to the point it disengages seems to work better. I did that even on the dragstrip with my zx1000R. However, it is your bike, ride it how you want and enjoy it.
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I use the clutch routinely, up and down. Would rather replace some friction plates than have bent shift forks, or whatnot.
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Max, I was just making a statement not an accusation. I was saying that was the worst case of abuse, but even so however briefly the shift is done, it will cause more wear than using the clutch. It may be so minor as to make the whole thing an exercise in microns but the two gears have to be at the same speed and that is more efficient if the clutch separates the engine from input of the transmission.
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After you master the dynamics and everything is working in harmony, it is almost second nature to upshift w/o the clutch, especially on a butter smooth unit like the C-14. Kawasaki's seem to upshift so smoothly with no effort; the Yamaha's and Honda's always seem a little more clunky. Downshifting w/o a clutch is more of a chore, and I'm not as comfortable doing that unless in an emergency. Been doing this 45 years with cars, bikes, and tractors with nary a clutch replacement ever.
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Max, I was just making a statement not an accusation.
No prob
I was saying that was the worst case of abuse, but even so however briefly the shift is done, it will cause more wear than using the clutch. It may be so minor as to make the whole thing an exercise in microns but the two gears have to be at the same speed and that is more efficient if the clutch separates the engine from input of the transmission.
I could agree with that. But what I was saying is that using the clutch puts some wear on the clutch. So which do you think is more total wear on the two systems combined? Perfect (or consistently good) clutchless shifting or regular clutch shifting?
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Many bikes come stock today with quick shifters already that bypass any hand clutch action.
Doesn't hurt anything. Street or track. Do it, many of us do with no probs and mega-miles
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After you master the dynamics and everything is working in harmony, it is almost second nature to upshift w/o the clutch, especially on a butter smooth unit like the C-14. Kawasaki's seem to upshift so smoothly with no effort; the Yamaha's and Honda's always seem a little more clunky. Downshifting w/o a clutch is more of a chore, and I'm not as comfortable doing that unless in an emergency. Been doing this 45 years with cars, bikes, and tractors with nary a clutch replacement ever.
My bike must be different. I've found the transmission to be very clunky compared to my Hondas. Both of my Hondas had very smooth transmissions. I think that's been the hardest thing to adjust to on my C14... The clutch is great, but the shifter is not smooth, at all.
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My bike must be different. I've found the transmission to be very clunky compared to my Hondas. Both of my Hondas had very smooth transmissions. I think that's been the hardest thing to adjust to on my C14... The clutch is great, but the shifter is not smooth, at all.
you may want to have that peeked at, both my old ZX14 and C14 shift like butter. almost scary smooth
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Max, since I have never worn out a clutch on anything I have driven, and since the clutch is pretty easy to get to I would much rather do a clutch. But if careful either method should provide safety. I spent 20 years in car service with BMW and M-B and I have seen it all.
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My bike must be different. I've found the transmission to be very clunky compared to my Hondas. Both of my Hondas had very smooth transmissions. I think that's been the hardest thing to adjust to on my C14... The clutch is great, but the shifter is not smooth, at all.
Move your shifter down.
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Though I am sure you can do it without damaging anything, I'm not sure what you gain.
The shift is smoother and faster when done correctly. Not a huge gain.
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you may want to have that peeked at, both my old ZX14 and C14 shift like butter. almost scary smooth
They become buttery smooth after shifting without the clutch for a while.
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/tomatoes.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
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Many bikes come stock today with quick shifters already that bypass any hand clutch action.
Doesn't hurt anything. Street or track. Do it, many of us do with no probs and mega-miles
Steve is correct. I ride clutch-less up and down on all my bikes, KLR650, C10- with over 110k miles, C14 and the Gsxr1000 track bike. Never an issue including bikes I owned in the past.
My old Eddie Lawson Replica shifted butter smooth.
I recently broke my wrist and have been riding any chance I can. It hurts like heck at stop lights and starting out from a stop but after that I go clutchless.
I can shift smoother without than with the clutch. Maybe it takes practice or maybe it is not meant for everyone.
I would feel silly on track days using the clutch all the time. My hand would fall off after 2 days of track time.
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I recently broke my wrist and have been riding any chance I can. It hurts like heck at stop lights and starting out from a stop but after that I go clutchless.
I did the same many years ago. I had an accident and crushed my left wrist, the index finger knuckle and broke the thumb at the joint all on the left hand. Needless to say, I had a bit of problem with the clutch for a while. I would use it of course to get going but went clutchless for everything else. Works fine.
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My old Eddie Lawson Replica shifted butter smooth.
ZRX! That was my last bike (and the correct color too, Kawasaki green) :) And the shifter felt just like the C14.
I can shift smoother without than with the clutch.
Me too
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the correct color too, Kawasaki green
Finally!!! After 3320 posts Max finally says something I agree with... ;D
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Finally!!! After 3320 posts Max finally says something I agree with... ;D
Give me a break!
Anyway, here she is (or was)....
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No not the ZRX.. The REAL ELR. mine was the last air cooled model in 1984- 1100
Like this one. It was THE bike to have back then. A V-Max could not keep up with mine. ( I had some work done to it.)
Eddie lawson Kz1100r Gpz1100 b1 kz1000r (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jZreKiOpVw#ws)
I even had the fancy gold chain to match the rims. I miss that bike.
http://tinyurl.com/lhxb56c (http://tinyurl.com/lhxb56c)
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No not the ZRX.. The REAL ELR. mine was the last air cooled model in 1984- 1100
Like this one.
Neat
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Max, you da man! I almost bought an ELR last year, but the guy would not budge from an outrageous asking price. I also have an original '74 Z-1B that ruled the road back in the day. It still starts with 1 kick- that's right, 1 kick ( or push button). That bike is bulletproof and I survived somehow..
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Max, you da man! I almost bought an ELR last year, but the guy would not budge from an outrageous asking price. I also have an original '74 Z-1B that ruled the road back in the day. It still starts with 1 kick- that's right, 1 kick ( or push button). That bike is bulletproof and I survived somehow..
How about some pics? Coffin fuel tank?
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No not the ZRX.. The REAL ELR. mine was the last air cooled model in 1984- 1100
Like this one. It was THE bike to have back then. A V-Max could not keep up with mine. ( I had some work done to it.)
Eddie lawson Kz1100r Gpz1100 b1 kz1000r (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jZreKiOpVw#ws)
I even had the fancy gold chain to match the rims. I miss that bike.
http://tinyurl.com/lhxb56c (http://tinyurl.com/lhxb56c)
Sweet! 8) :thumbs: