Author Topic: A&R Motorsports HID kit input  (Read 47721 times)

Offline ninjawarrior1400

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #100 on: October 08, 2012, 05:26:43 PM »
Don't leave home with out them!  First thing I do when bring a new bike home...install 4300K HID.....then the PIAA 1100x on the front wheel...love to ride at night in Florida too hot in daytime unless it is cooler......cagers can see you coming on high beam..and move over in passing lanes....a Harley has a single yellow bulb shaking with the vibration....not the C-14....

It makes night driving a very nice safer experience.  Look at my pic posted herein.

Don't forget to modify the bulb shrouds and pick up an extra 30% more on the road lighting!
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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #101 on: October 08, 2012, 06:59:43 PM »
Don't forget to modify the bulb shrouds and pick up an extra 30% more on the road lighting!

If you are serious about where this extra light ends up (On the road vs. up in the trees) I would like to hear/read more.
In your HIDs for sale post the extra light appeared to all be going very high.

Offline C1xRider

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #102 on: October 08, 2012, 08:30:45 PM »
Damn you Rob...I just ordered the kit and can't wait...another farkle for the bike, however this one is all about safety.  I was riding at night last week...rode 750 kms round trip for a beer and burger...anyways shut off my driving lights (Rigid Industries Dually 2's) as I was behind heavy traffic and was embarrassed by the yellow quality lights in my low beams.  When I passed the traffic and turned my driving lights back on, it was day light once more.

I swore that I would not install HID for the hi/low bikes lights due to the complexitiy of it all...I hope this is as straight forward as all the others have stated.

Thx again

Dave

Yep, just had to get that monkey off my back, and onto someone elses.  ;D  I guess that's the forum version of 'pay it forward'.   ;)
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Offline C1xRider

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #103 on: October 09, 2012, 01:17:40 AM »
Okay, interesting thing happened tonight.  Stopped by a friends house to show off the new headlights, and when I was ready to leave, the left headlight didn't come on.  I shut the bike off and restarted it and then both lights came on and worked fine.

I think this same thing happened to ZG's bike earlier this year when we road up to the WA COG wrench session.  We pulled out of a gas station and one of his headlights was out.  He never shut the bike off, and we kept riding, but later that day it was working fine.

So, it appears the igniters used to fire the bulbs for the ballasts may not have a 100% success rate.  Anyone have any information on this subject?  I'm new to HID lighting, so all I can do is speculate.

I'm guessing if a bulb doesn't lignt off, it won't hurt the ballast if you ride it, but don't know that for certain.  Anyone know if this is true?  I would hate to have to worry about something like this everytime I start the bike.  I guess I'll have to do some research on the topic.
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Offline Gumby

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #104 on: October 09, 2012, 05:17:13 AM »
I had a problem with the bulbs not switching between high and low when I first installed mine. Called A&R and they sent me new bulbs, no problem since.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #105 on: October 09, 2012, 06:21:02 AM »
I gave it a try way back when and it was awful. Cutting the shrouds won't put one extra lumen of light where you can use it (on the road or to the side of the road) but surprisingly enough, it does go directly into any oncoming driver's eyes.

This is the modified shield:


This is the pattern with the shield intact (low beam):


With the shield cut, notice where ALL the extra light goes:


This photo was taken from just above the cut- off line, at least for the headlight on the right :-(   Notice the glare from the headlight on the left, which is the one with the cut shield:


In my opinion, not only is cutting the shield not a good idea, it is irresponsible and does nothing but blind / annoy any others who happen to be unfortunate enough to share the road with such a vehicle.

Fortunately, unlike circumcision, this mod. is reversible. I cut a piece of aluminum flashing, bent it to wrap around the shield and cover the area that had been modified- it worked like a charm:




Brian

If you are serious about where this extra light ends up (On the road vs. up in the trees) I would like to hear/read more.
In your HIDs for sale post the extra light appeared to all be going very high.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 11:01:41 AM by B.D.F. »
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #106 on: October 09, 2012, 06:27:40 AM »
An HID not coming on (one that still works anyway) is usually the result of low system voltage. A problem is that C-14's ignite the headlights exactly when the bike is cranking and so the system voltage is low at that very moment when the lights need a surge of current to ignite. It isn't generally a problem but does seem to show up when the bike's battery is weak.

Some people have put a delay in the headlight circuit so that they do not even try to start (the lights) until sometime after the bike has started. That should work nicely because not only will the battery's voltage not be pulled down from actually starting the bike but once the bike is running, the alternator will actually raise the system voltage.

If it becomes a common enough problem, you might want to consider the delay relay. I could steer you toward how / where to install it if it comes to that.

BTW: mine have never done that that I know of and I usually check to see that both headlights are actually on by looking for the 'tell tales' on the ground that the headlights cast.

Brian

Okay, interesting thing happened tonight.  Stopped by a friends house to show off the new headlights, and when I was ready to leave, the left headlight didn't come on.  I shut the bike off and restarted it and then both lights came on and worked fine.

I think this same thing happened to ZG's bike earlier this year when we road up to the WA COG wrench session.  We pulled out of a gas station and one of his headlights was out.  He never shut the bike off, and we kept riding, but later that day it was working fine.

So, it appears the igniters used to fire the bulbs for the ballasts may not have a 100% success rate.  Anyone have any information on this subject?  I'm new to HID lighting, so all I can do is speculate.

I'm guessing if a bulb doesn't lignt off, it won't hurt the ballast if you ride it, but don't know that for certain.  Anyone know if this is true?  I would hate to have to worry about something like this everytime I start the bike.  I guess I'll have to do some research on the topic.
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Offline ninjawarrior1400

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #107 on: October 09, 2012, 08:05:49 AM »

The Modified shields posted herein are done improperly....they don't allow the light to be directed properly, they have been opened up too much!


They need to have the open face retained to a larger degree...too much metal has been removed so it has a blast effect on the road and the beams will not focus properly and blind on coming drivers.

I posted mine and how I  did them a couple of years ago, maybe someone can research the posting and see how to do it so it will be useful and not harmful to on coming traffic.

Have to be careful not to go overboard on opening up the shrouds.....they are H-4 bulbs so you have the hi and lo beams built into the same bulb....not like on a ZX14 where you have 4 lights up front....only 2 with the C-14.
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Offline C1xRider

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #108 on: October 09, 2012, 08:08:31 AM »
An HID not coming on (one that still works anyway) is usually the result of low system voltage. A problem is that C-14's ignite the headlights exactly when the bike is cranking and so the system voltage is low at that very moment when the lights need a surge of current to ignite. It isn't generally a problem but does seem to show up when the bike's battery is weak.

Some people have put a delay in the headlight circuit so that they do not even try to start (the lights) until sometime after the bike has started. That should work nicely because not only will the battery's voltage not be pulled down from actually starting the bike but once the bike is running, the alternator will actually raise the system voltage.

If it becomes a common enough problem, you might want to consider the delay relay. I could steer you toward how / where to install it if it comes to that.

BTW: mine have never done that that I know of and I usually check to see that both headlights are actually on by looking for the 'tell tales' on the ground that the headlights cast.

Brian

That makes sense, thanks.  Funny that in both of the observed failure cases, it was right after a long ride (more than 30 minutes), and a short stop (5 to 15 minutes).  Seems like battery voltage should have been high then.  Also, with the engine all warmed up, cranking it over was at a minimum.  Plus, my battery was new at the beginning of this year, so it's in great shape.

So am I correct that if the bulb doesn't light, there's no load on the ballast, and therefore no risk of damaging a ballast?  Not sure what's going on inside the ballast, from current flow perspective.
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Offline ninjawarrior1400

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #109 on: October 09, 2012, 08:25:18 AM »
Ok just took these pics with my cell phone to post here so you can see what has been working well in several C-14's I have modified the HID for better down the road results and does not blind on coming traffic.

Be careful when using the Dremel disk not to cut too much metal, this is a case where more is not better!

This will give you two distinctive beams...and not blind on-coming traffic..as always focus and align both lights with the high beam centers on a bright white piece of styroform and draw a black line level across so you can see that both are exactly the same height for best on the road viewing and performance.

Harley riders...eat your heart out!

Hope this helps a bit...

NW

« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 10:14:52 AM by ninjawarrior1400 »
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Offline ninjawarrior1400

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #110 on: October 09, 2012, 10:11:00 AM »
Here is one more picture to share.....

As you can see you command a large part of the road, so if there is a dog or a deer on the side of the road you have a little time to slow down to avoid hitting it and it gives you more confidence driving at night...

All we are trying to do here is tweak the safety capabilities and make our riding experience more enjoyable...

The 4300K actually enhances road imperfections to allow you to see the highs and lows in the pavement so you can enjoy a smoother ride....or maybe see a nail, or something you can avoid hitting.



NW
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #111 on: October 09, 2012, 10:59:02 AM »
In all those photos there is a LOT of light being thrown well above the cut off line that would blind oncoming traffic. Cutting the bottom of the shield allows light to leave the burner, hit the bottom of the reflector and then reflect up and out, which is precisely where the low beam light should not go.

The way to convince us that the low beam remains intact when you modify the shields is by taking before / after photos of the low beam only projected against some flat surface such as a garage door or wall, a house wall, etc. Movie theaters also work very well to show the shape of a low beam.

Blasting out lots of light is a fine thing but unless it is controlled and kept below a certain height (speaking of low beams here) it is blinding to oncoming traffic and dangerous for everyone in the area, even the biker who blinds the traffic coming at him / her.

Brian

Here is one more picture to share.....

As you can see you command a large part of the road, so if there is a dog or a deer on the side of the road you have a little time to slow down to avoid hitting it and it gives you more confidence driving at night...

All we are trying to do here is tweak the safety capabilities and make our riding experience more enjoyable...

The 4300K actually enhances road imperfections to allow you to see the highs and lows in the pavement so you can enjoy a smoother ride....or maybe see a nail, or something you can avoid hitting.



NW
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Offline ZG

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #112 on: October 09, 2012, 11:18:44 AM »
Okay, interesting thing happened tonight.  Stopped by a friends house to show off the new headlights, and when I was ready to leave, the left headlight didn't come on.  I shut the bike off and restarted it and then both lights came on and worked fine.

I think this same thing happened to ZG's bike earlier this year when we road up to the WA COG wrench session.  We pulled out of a gas station and one of his headlights was out.  He never shut the bike off, and we kept riding, but later that day it was working fine.

So, it appears the igniters used to fire the bulbs for the ballasts may not have a 100% success rate.  Anyone have any information on this subject?  I'm new to HID lighting, so all I can do is speculate.

I'm guessing if a bulb doesn't lignt off, it won't hurt the ballast if you ride it, but don't know that for certain.  Anyone know if this is true?  I would hate to have to worry about something like this everytime I start the bike.  I guess I'll have to do some research on the topic.

Yep, I remember that Rob. The odd thing is it hasn't done that since then, I kept checking it for about a month or so and never did it again... Odd indeed but seems to have been a one time thing...  ??? :-\

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #113 on: October 09, 2012, 11:58:36 AM »
Ah, that is what is called a 'hot re-strike' and that can be a problem too. Short technical explanation follows:

As an HID lamp is truly an arc lamp, there must be a high enough voltage to initiate the arc. Once started, about 85 volts will maintain it but it requires upwards of 20,000 volts to start or strike the original arc. The small glass envelope that contains the arc has metal salts inside it (they look like brown sand when the bulb is cold) and once heated, they turn to gas and produce the huge amounts of light that HIDs put out and also cause the arc to the be color that it is. However, when those salts are hot and gasified, the electrical resistance inside the envelope goes up, making it harder to strike the arc in the first place. So shutting HIDs off and then restarting them while they are still hot (the 'hot re-strike') is the situation that takes the most voltage from the ballast. That is where some of the Chinese ballasts may fall down occasionally- not so much the ballast itself but the actual igniter (which is the part that provides the extremely high strike voltage). If that happens, all the while the light is off it is cooling down so the next restrike occurs at a lower (bulb) temperature when it will probably work. Hence the seemingly erratic behavior. You can help it along by making sure all the electrical connections are tight and not bound too tightly to any grounded surface (the arc will just as happily jump out of the cable through the insulation as across the HID's internal electrodes).

If it continues to be a problem, I would suggest contacting the store where you got them and as about getting a new ballast and igniter or even everything on that side of the bike in the event it is a bulb with unusual hot resistance causing the problem. If it is only very occasional, I would just ignore it and re-start the bike and the lights when it does happen.

By the way, speaking of the high starting voltage: be careful with handling HIDs and powering them up. They are not particularly dangerous IMO but unlike the original 12 volt wiring on the bike, you cannot be entirely cavalier with the wires, connections, and especially any open connections because that starting voltage is perfectly happy jumping out of the connector and into your hand(s) if there is not a complete connection.

As to your question of anything bad happening to the ballast if the HID fails to strike- nope, they are designed with that in mind so it is not a problem. Also, it is inevitable that vehicle lighting will be damaged and so it is expected that a ballast will try to ignite a lamp that is no longer there or not connected (front end damage from a vehicle accident is the most likely cause) so there are a set number of times that ballast will try to ignite the lamp and then shut itself down until the ballast itself is powered down and back up. This all happens in less than one second so there is no danger of the ballast overheating or similar. This is a case where the 'good' OEM ballasts are inferior in a way to the aftermarket things- after a certain number of tries (five I think), Hellas are designed to open an internal fuse and shut down permanently. Once that happens, the ballast will never power up again- it is a safety feature to deal with auto damage. Unfortunately the only way to fix it is by buying a new ballast and Hella ballasts are not $25 / pair  :-(   

Brian


That makes sense, thanks.  Funny that in both of the observed failure cases, it was right after a long ride (more than 30 minutes), and a short stop (5 to 15 minutes).  Seems like battery voltage should have been high then.  Also, with the engine all warmed up, cranking it over was at a minimum.  Plus, my battery was new at the beginning of this year, so it's in great shape.

So am I correct that if the bulb doesn't light, there's no load on the ballast, and therefore no risk of damaging a ballast?  Not sure what's going on inside the ballast, from current flow perspective.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Gumby

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #114 on: October 09, 2012, 12:26:05 PM »
                         


                                        ;D

That was a lot to read, but very enlightening. Get it enlightening   :rotflmao:

Offline just gone

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #115 on: October 09, 2012, 01:04:27 PM »


Well Ninja'1400, looking at the mail boxes on the left (and the trees, houses, cars), I don't see how you can say it doesn't near blind
drivers coming at you (or those in front of you trying to get away as well).
The pictures you show of the shields look just as opened up as Brian's if not more so.
I guess either we'll just not agree on this :( , or I'm not understanding you.
 Are your road pictures of the low beam or high beam?
Do you have a road picture of your modified HID low beam only without any aux. lights?

Offline ninjawarrior1400

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #116 on: October 09, 2012, 03:33:37 PM »
This pic is with the under mirror PIAA Country Wide HID 35 watt lights lit up.....so they are higher and provide more sideline light...only use them on the back country roads where no on coming traffic is present....just gives me a higher degree of confidence to ride higher speeds at night and not be as concerned about animals on the side of the road or people backing out of country driveways.....
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Offline maxtog

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #117 on: October 09, 2012, 04:29:09 PM »
This pic is with the under mirror PIAA Country Wide HID 35 watt lights lit up.....so they are higher and provide more sideline light...only use them on the back country roads where no on coming traffic is present....just gives me a higher degree of confidence to ride higher speeds at night and not be as concerned about animals on the side of the road or people backing out of country driveways.....

Like Brian said, we would have to see patterns on a garage door to know anything useful, AND a picture like you had, but on low beam and without any other lights on (like you would be riding with other traffic around).

So far it doesn't seem like any modification to the shroud is going to be a good idea based on what I have seen so far.
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Offline ZG

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #118 on: October 09, 2012, 04:51:59 PM »

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Re: A&R Motorsports HID kit input
« Reply #119 on: October 09, 2012, 06:29:32 PM »
I was in front of a high jacket up pickup truck HID lights,  fog  lights dam near made my eyes water, SHOULD be ILLEGAL
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