Author Topic: carb sync question  (Read 9462 times)

Offline Toxz Qwaste

  • Arena
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • stuff & things
carb sync question
« on: May 19, 2014, 07:41:16 PM »
Manual states to do it a idle. Is there any advantage to doing it at a higher rev?

Offline Jim __

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: us
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2014, 05:43:08 AM »
Yes.  I synced mine at 4K because that's where the "buzz" really starts to kick in.  There wasn't that much difference in adjustments between idle and the 4K sync but it did seem to smooth things out a little at the higher revs (every little bit helps).  The idle will not be quite as smooth sounding but it certainly won't cause any problems.  I'm using a homemade Manometer filled with transmission fluid (low specific gravity).  I saw about a 3 inch difference between two of the carbs from idle to 4K and a 1.5 inch difference in the balance between 1&2, 3&4.  Not sure what kind of difference you would see with gauges but mercury filled carb sticks would  probably not show a significant change.

Offline Summit670

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 482
  • Country: us
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2014, 06:08:31 PM »
Not sure about advantage/disadvantage, but the higher the rpm the more vacuum it will pull and risk sucking mercury out of the tubes if you have that device.  If you're using tranny fluid or some other lubricant, no worry.

My mercury tubes have little restrictors inside each of the tubes.  Probably helps even out the pulses felt by the device. 
Arctic Cat M8 163 rules

Sleds, Dirt Bikes, ATV's, Street Bikes, Mountain Bikes.  Heck, I guess if it has handlebars I'll give it a try.

Offline Mettler1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
  • Country: us
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2014, 09:58:00 PM »
  If you have one of these you don't have to worry about mercury.

           http://www.carbtune.com/carbdtls.html
'94 Concours 112,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,Torque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators,etc

Offline DC Concours

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
  • Country: us
  • 2001 Concours, ~35K miles
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 03:08:41 PM »
Gentlemen,

I have a couple of questions.

First are there any inexpensive manometers one can recommend? The last time I used one was for my ex500 many eons ago. The 5 times I checked those carbs in the approx. 15K miles I put on it, I only needed to adjust one carb, only once, only a tiny bit (negligible). So I doubt I'll use this more than once or twice every 5 year! Don't want to spend $100 on manometer that will likely be lost before it's second use. I rather spend that money on good tires which I will need soon.

Second, I have seen some home made ones are they really any good? All standard measurement are in Hg never in H20. And now I see some for sale that don't use Hg but something calibrated as Hg.


Offline Jim __

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: us
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014, 09:03:06 AM »
Homemade Manometers work fine.  My carbs get synced after each periodic value adjustment.  I'm using one made from plastic hoses and tie wrapped to a yard long board and filled it with transmission fluid (just in case something goes wrong or your carbs are way out of sync and the fluid gets sucked into the carb).  I've got two sets so I can do all 4 carbs at once.  You will need to devise a small restriction in each hose so the fluid level will remain stable.  I experimented with a couple of smaller diameter hoses that fit tightly inside the main hose from each carb until I got the fluid to remain stable at idle.  If you are only interested in syncing the carbs, the unit of measure (Hg) is not relevant since it is a relative relationship between carbs 1 & 2, 3 & 4 and between both pairs.  Just a side note:  If you do go with a homemade setup, be ready to hit the kill switch when you first try it out.  The specific gravity of transmission fluid is over 13 times less than mercury so a 1 inch difference between tubes/carbs with mercury will be over 13 inches with trans fluid.  On the up side, when you sync your carbs within a quarter inch of each other with trans fluid, you've got it nailed.  Good luck!

Offline George R. Young

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 624
  • Country: ca
    • Concours 2001 Farkles
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2014, 09:30:52 AM »
65 CB160 (67-69), 69 350GTR (69-72), 72 R5, 73 RD350 (73-84), 82 XZ550 Vision (84-03), 01 Concours C10 (03-19), 89 EX250 (11-14), 00 SV650S (14-16), 03 SV650S (19-)

Offline DC Concours

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
  • Country: us
  • 2001 Concours, ~35K miles
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2014, 02:35:26 PM »
George...that's a great link. thanks. easy to build. I was looking at some youtube videos of guys building them out of water bottles! so strange but they seem to work nicely.

Jim, I understand you don't need Hg if just syncing...any liquid able to show slight relative relationships will suffice...but what else do you guys do with a carb synchronizer where Hg matters?

Offline Jim __

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: us
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2014, 07:40:10 AM »
If I'm looking for vacuum leaks I use a vacuum gauge with a restriction.  I guess you could use a non-differential sync tool for that but I have no experience with those types.

Offline jworth

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2014, 07:51:44 AM »
I designed, made, and used a manometer that uses no fluid at all.

Offline Jim __

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: us
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2014, 08:01:54 AM »
That sounds a lot less finicky than mine.  Bring on the details!

Offline jworth

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2014, 03:24:09 PM »
This is going to sound really cheesy when you read it, but keep in mind all you need is something to show pressure differences.  I've tried to come up with a slightly different design, but so far haven't been able to source materials cheaply enough to suit me.  Ok, so here's the general idea.  I created a clear cylinder with a loose membrane in the middle separating it into two halves.  Each end of the cylinder is sealed except for a nipple where tubing is hooked up to to the carbs in question.    If the membrane moves one way or the other, you can tell relative difference in pressure.  The pulses are worked bout because the membrane is loose enough so that it can move significantly into one side or the other.  Ok, so let me clear up how I made this contraption.  I tell you how it works first because you'll laugh at it's construction.  I took two 30 mL syringes and removed the plungers.  The big ends were stuck together.  You should get the idea of the cylinder with the nipples on either end.  So what did I use for the membrane?  An un lubricated condom.  Hey I did warn you you'd laugh.  I used little bull dog clips to hold the syringes butt to butt so to speak.  Perhaps a poor choice of words considering.  In any case you can easily see the condom move toward one side or the other depending on which carb has the greater vacuum.  You simply adjust until you get it to sit there nicely in the middle.  Pretty darn cheap, too.  I should warn you that the condom doesn't last that long and if you only use the contraption every year or two, you'll likely have to use a new one each time.  Besides, who wants to re-use condoms anyway?

I thought a person could make something similar and perhaps a bit more elegant out of hard wall clear acrylic tubing using a nicely matched ping pong ball  as your separator, but I found it wasn't cost effective for a tool used so rarely.  Yeah, there's a condom joke right there for you, too.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2898
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2014, 07:29:28 AM »
Homemade Manometers work fine. ............  If you are only interested in syncing the carbs, the unit of measure (Hg) is not relevant since it is a relative relationship between carbs 1 & 2, 3 & 4 and between both pairs.  Just a side note:  If you do go with a homemade setup, be ready to hit the kill switch when you first try it out.  The specific gravity of transmission fluid is over 13 times less than mercury so a 1 inch difference between tubes/carbs with mercury will be over 13 inches with trans fluid.  On the up side, when you sync your carbs within a quarter inch of each other with trans fluid, you've got it nailed.  Good luck!


home made manometers do work somewhat, but I will give a tidbit of correction / difference;

If you have a true original mercury stick setup, from the 70's (I do), you will note that the mercury column is in a glass tube, with an inside diameter of 1mm (.039").
Also the spec's on manometers and gages called for in the Kawasaki service manuals, specify a unit of measure of cm/Hg, that's Centimeters of Mercury in a 1mm column.
 a bit different than a 1/4" id (or greater) plastic tube and tranny fluid.
The spec on synch for a C10 is LESS than 2cm (.78") Hg difference between any carbs.

just food for thought.

I use a TwinMax electric synch tool.
no condoms needed.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline jworth

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 06:50:23 PM »
Just an FYI, it doesn't matter the diameter of the tubes, only the density of the fluid.

Offline DC Concours

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
  • Country: us
  • 2001 Concours, ~35K miles
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2014, 07:26:57 PM »
Hahahahahahahaha :rotflmao:


I use a TwinMax electric synch tool.
no condoms needed.


Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2898
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2014, 11:07:00 AM »
Just an FYI, it doesn't matter the diameter of the tubes, only the density of the fluid.

whatever you say  ::)

a 1/4" tube is 40 times the area of a 1mm tube

with what you state as a 13 X difference in density between mercury and ATF, tube size does matter... your statement above makes no sense to me. :'(


46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline DC Concours

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
  • Country: us
  • 2001 Concours, ~35K miles
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2014, 12:59:48 PM »
Man of blues is right...Diameter of container matters very much. There are intimate correlations between fluid volumetric mass density, gravitational force, momentum and some other things I don't remember anymore.

Offline jworth

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2014, 04:37:31 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's just the physics.  I started to explain it, but I think to just get you to think about it.  You're a smart enough guy and you can figure it out if you want to.  If you think that the diameter of the tube is a factor, then tell me why the figures never give that dimension.  Why is the barometric pressure only given in mmHg or inH2O (the height of the column) with no consideration for the diameter of the tube?

The diameter of the tubes will affect how quickly change in pressure will register, just as adding a restriction in the tubing will do the same thing.  Once a given pressure is reached, the height of the column will be the same regardless assuming a properly functioning setup ie. there's enough fluid to register the change, enough length of tube, etc.

I really don't want to be a smart ass, but we could get into the math if you'd like.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • Arena
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2898
  • Country: 00
  • WHISKEY.Tango.Foxtrot.
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2014, 05:53:36 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's just the physics.  I started to explain it, but I think to just get you to think about it.  You're a smart enough guy and you can figure it out if you want to.  If you think that the diameter of the tube is a factor, then tell me why the figures never give that dimension.  Why is the barometric pressure only given in mmHg or inH2O (the height of the column) with no consideration for the diameter of the tube?

The diameter of the tubes will affect how quickly change in pressure will register, just as adding a restriction in the tubing will do the same thing.  Once a given pressure is reached, the height of the column will be the same regardless assuming a properly functioning setup ie. there's enough fluid to register the change, enough length of tube, etc.

I really don't want to be a smart ass, but we could get into the math if you'd like.
I did the math, its what I do for a living.
Not trying to be a s/a here either, but this isn't regestering with you what I have said,
Mercury manometers are historically defined with fixed dimensions... you can do some research and find what I have said.
With regard to plastic hose, used with atf, to show differential vacuume, it works, but it only shows balance. In order t register balance using atf, with a similar amount of definitive accuracy to ascertain viable "comparisons" of difference, the plastic tube needs to be much smaller in I.d. than 1/4" to effect the relative scaling factor..I'm doing this response on my nook, and have no desire to spend time playing to fully define right now, maybe tomorrow.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline T Cro ®

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1743
  • Country: us
Re: carb sync question
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2014, 08:42:22 PM »
Well I say its "run what you brung" night ant it does not matter how you cross the line but that you cross the line.... Myself I use 4 vacuum gauges glued to a plate with little tiny ball valves as dampers; all in all prolly cost more than a Twin-Max but it's what I like to use....
Tony P. Crochet
(SOLD) 01 Concours Winner of COG Most Modified in 2010