Author Topic: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB  (Read 2962 times)

Offline VirginiaJim

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Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« on: November 15, 2011, 04:11:56 AM »
 WASHINGTON and LONDON - Britain has agreed to sell all of its 74 decommissioned Harrier jump jets, along with engines and spare parts, to the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps - a move expected to help the Marines operate Harriers into the mid-2020s and provide extra planes to replace aging two-seat F-18D Hornet strike fighters.
A Harrier GR9 takes off for the last time in November 2010 from the now-decommissioned aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal. The U.S. Navy and Marine Corps are buying 74 decommissioned British Harrier jump jets. (U.K. Ministry of Defence)
Rear Adm. Mark Heinrich, chief of the U.S. Navy's Supply Corps, confirmed the two-part deal Nov. 10 during a conference in New York sponsored by Bank of America Merrill Lynch in association with Defense News.
Heinrich negotiated the $50 million purchase of all Harrier spare parts, while Rear Adm. Donald Gaddis, the U.S. Navy's program executive officer for tactical aircraft, is overseeing discussions to buy the Harrier aircraft and their Rolls-Royce engines, Heinrich said.
A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence in London confirmed the Disposal Services Agency was in talks with the U.S. Navy for the sale of the Harriers. The deal had yet to be concluded, he said Nov. 11.
Britain retired its joint force of Royal Air Force and Royal Navy Harrier aircraft late last year in one of the most controversial moves of the defense reductions, which also cut the aircraft carriers that operated the jets, other warships, maritime patrol planes and personnel.
Most of the retired Harriers are stored at the Royal Air Force base at Cottesmore, England.
They have been undergoing minimum fleet maintenance, including anti-deterioration measures, in order to keep them airworthy, Heinrich said.
A spokesman for the U.S. Navy's Naval Air Systems Command declined Nov. 11 to comment on the deal, deferring to the British military.
An MoD source said Nov. 11 that he thought both deals could be signed in the next week or two. The MoD source confirmed that the entire fleet of 74 Harrier aircraft was involved in the sale.
Heinrich noted that payment details were the only outstanding issue on the parts deal discussions, and he said the purchase will give the U.S. Marines a relatively economical way to get their hands on key components to keep the Harrier fleet running.
Similar Aircraft
While it is unusual for the U.S. to buy used foreign military aircraft for operation, integration of the British planes into Marine Corps squadrons shouldn't be a major problem, one expert said.
"I don't think it will be costly to rip out the Brit systems" and replace them with Marine gear, said Lon Nordeen, author of several books on the Harrier.
Nordeen noted that the British GR 9 and 9As are similar in configuration to the Marines' AV-8B night attack version, which make up about a third of U.S. Harriers. The British planes also are night planes dedicated to air-ground attack, he said, and while both types carry Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) sensors, neither is fitted with a multimode radar such as the APG-65 carried by U.S. AV-8B+ models.
The absence of the big radar, Nordeen said, makes the GR 9A and AV-8Bs "a better-performing plane. Weighing less, it's more of a hot rod."
British GR 9s, although upgraded with improved avionics and weapons, are powered by the Rolls-Royce Mark 105 Pegasus engine. GR 9As have the more powerful Mark 107, similar to the Rolls-Royce F402-RR-408s that power Marine AV-8Bs.
British and U.S. Harrier II aircraft had a high degree of commonality from their origin. The planes were developed and built in a joint arrangement between British Aerospace - now BAE Systems - and McDonnell Douglas, now a division of Boeing. While each company built its own wings, all forward sections of the British and American Harrier IIs were built by McDonnell in St. Louis, Mo., while British Aerospace built the fuselage sections aft of the cockpit.
"All the planes have to fit together," Nordeen said.
The Harrier IIs, built between 1980 and 1995, "are still quite serviceable," he said. "The aircraft are not that far apart. We're taking advantage of all the money the Brits have spent on them. It's like we're buying a car with maybe 15,000 miles on it."
Operationally, Nordeen said, "these are very good platforms. They need upgrades, but on bombing missions they have the ability to incorporate the Litening II targeting pod [used by U.S. aircraft]. They're good platforms. And we've already got trained pilots."
Marine Corps Harriers are to be phased out by 2025, when replacement by new F-35B Joint Strike Fighters should be complete.
Nordeen, however, said he expects the British Harriers to be used initially to replace two-seat Marine F-18D Hornet fighters now operated in the night attack role.
"The F-18Ds are more worn out than the Harriers," Nordeen said. "Most of the conversions [of ex-British aircraft] early on will be to replace 18Ds and not Harriers." He noted the first Marine F-35B squadron already is slated to replace an F-18D unit.
Nordeen applauded the move.
"I would see this as a good bargain to extend the operational utility of the Harrier II fleet, no matter what," he said.
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Offline Boomer343

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 05:02:18 AM »
Hope it works out better than the submarines the Brits unloaded on us Canadians.......

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 05:23:37 AM »
All these 'deals' appear good on the surface, but why do I get the feeling we just fell off the turnip truck?

I've read nothing good about the submarine purchase.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 05:38:31 AM »
I wonder how long this deal has been in the works?

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 06:07:00 AM »
Dunno.
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Offline stevewfl

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 06:11:07 AM »
Your tax dollar at work.
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Offline Cholla

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 06:17:28 AM »
From what I understand the Harriers cost much more to operate than the Hornets.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2011, 06:20:55 AM »
This list is to long to post here but VJ's earlier turnip truck post seems relevant. Especially UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Harrier_Jump_Jet_family_losses

Offline gPink

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2011, 06:27:15 AM »

Offline Outback_Jon

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2011, 06:52:28 AM »
All these 'deals' appear good on the surface, but why do I get the feeling we just fell off the turnip truck?

I've read nothing good about the submarine purchase.

Was the reference to "deals appear good on the surface" and "submarines" intentional?   :rotflmao:
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2011, 07:26:59 AM »
Unfortunately, no.
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Offline Jeremy Mitchell

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2011, 03:04:46 PM »
Maybe DOD can find some slightly used Ospreys too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_V-22_Osprey

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Offline Tim

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Re: Navy and Marine Corps to buy lightly used Harriers from GB
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2011, 05:27:00 PM »
AV-8's require more manhours to maintain than the F/A-18's do. I do get the idea behind the AV-8'S being able to use a parking lot about any where to operate. I worked around the Brits maintaining their Tornato's back in the late 80's while I worked on F/A-18's and a couple of Marine AV-8's night attack planes. It seemed the Brits payed more attention to the smallest little detail we would not waste our time on. (non safety of flight related)

One of our Marine captains got into a little trouble (not much) for flying over a S/O Deputy while he was parked along side of the road. The pilot had the lights off and buzzed the patrol car at about 450 knots. The deputy called the base and complained when the pilot did it again while he had a car pulled over doing a traffic stop.  At 450 you don't hear them coming.  ;D
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