Author Topic: Lean angle alarms keep going off  (Read 11212 times)

Offline lather

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2012, 06:14:51 PM »
Reading, training, practice are all good and nec. but in the end a leap of faith may berequired to overcome your lean angle alarm. Human heads come with a built in tilt meter and lean angle alarm, trouble is its not calibrated for a motorcycle, even a Harley. I believe in everyone's riding career there is a point at which he/she must overcome that internal alarm and recalibrate the meter. It was that way for me. I won't suggest you ignore your fears - you may well get yourself killed. I am just saying we all have a natural instinct to overcome to get to a certain level.
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Offline basmntdweller

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2012, 07:06:25 PM »
I think lather pretty much nailed it. My level meter in my head is out of calibration and overly sensitive.

Rcannon409, I have a nice old dirt bike. Been riding it for years. The guy leading on the Harley was my mentor on the dirt. He gave up the dirt after a knee replacement brought on by a couple falls on the dirt. I've known him for 20 years and he swore he wasn't going to ride on the street. Giving up dirt changed his mind.
By the way, I have the same warning buzzers going off all the time on dirt too. I had a little practice loop at a friends house that I used to ride for hours. I could slide it around every corner, nice roost on a couple coming out. I had a blast doing it but every corner entry I had to fight to ignore the warning bells! I need to clean the carb on my dirt bike and get it out some. I tried to take it down the street on one warm day back in March but never got it to fire up.

Matt
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'11 Suzuki C50T wife's ride since she hates my Connie
'03 Honda CBR600RR track bike

Offline lt1

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2012, 07:29:36 PM »
I tend to disagree with the idea that dirt biking will help overcome your problem.  They help overcome a fear of sliding or getting loose, but that doesn't seem to be your issue.  I did not mention countersteering earlier.  Do you understand, practice and believe in countersteering?

Other than the reading/training suggestions, I don't think any of my further opinions or suggestions would be of much help.
Eyes, Brain, Hands.  Repeat.

Offline stevewfl

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2012, 07:36:28 PM »
This IS a good thread.  What you describe are what Keith Code refers to as "survival reactions."  His Twist of the Wrist II video is worthwhile.  I am no Valentino Rossi, and although I think I am pushing my personal evelope I know I am not (peg feelers aren't too beat up).  My concerns about going into a turn too hot is not that I won't be able to lean enough (because I know the PR3s and the bike are more than capable) but that there will be something in the road that will take me down.  Tar snakes, actual snakes (had a couple of those in the road in the middle of a turn) and dreaded sand can ruin a nice run through twisties.  I have not done a track day, and want to do so.  Nonetheless, I prefer to take it a bit easy and be upright than to push into a corner faster than my ability or the environment will allow.  Nonetheless, when conditions are optimal I do take the opportunity to go into a turn just a bit faster than I would otherwise in order to extend my comfort zone and have some fun.

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Offline booger

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2012, 07:37:34 PM »
Do a couple of track days ;)

Offline basmntdweller

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2012, 07:56:36 PM »
Counter steering, you can't ride a bike without it! After my basic Abate class started talking about it, I kind of figured it out for myself and much of the physics of bike design and riding started falling into place.

Matt
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2012, 10:16:09 PM »
If you add good tires and pull the bags off, you'll be shocked to see how nice this bike is. Both take away from what the machine really is...and how damn good it is. 

I can certainly go for the tires, but exactly how to the bags negatively affect cornering or "niceness" of the bike.  The bags are one of the best things about the Concours...
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Offline ugocon

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2012, 01:54:13 AM »
I can certainly go for the tires, but exactly how to the bags negatively affect cornering or "niceness" of the bike.  The bags are one of the best things about the Concours...
I fully agree, but, as a matter of fact, you run better without bags: just think of the weight you get rid of (Connie's saddlebags are not light like feathers... ;))

Moreover, I also mount the case and If I take the hands off the handlebar at a speed of let's say 35/40 mph, I can see the handle bar slightly shaking.
It could be solved (or reduced) with a proper set up of the suspensions, but I'm lazy and using the hands "properly" I don't feel that difference ;)

As a general rule, the "cleaner" the bike, the "smoother" it rides!  :)
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Offline wipfel

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2012, 06:29:49 AM »
I still go back to you can't gain the skill and confidence to alleviate the fear without pushing beyond your comfort limits. So what is the best way to do so? Track days would play a part but they are expensive and not that frequent at least here in my area. Riding with someone in the lead that is going just a little over your comfort speed is the most available to me but even that is not that often. I can only handle about 4 hours a day in the saddle and decent roads are about an hour away.

Matt

If you're just talking about lean angle, it seems to me you can use the Lee Parks' Total Control approach and work on that in a parking lot at slower speeds.  If the turn is tight enough, you could be dragging your peg feelers at 20 or 30 mph.  I've used this approach to work on overcoming this same fear, and it's helped me remove all of the other distractions and fears to focus on the one fear: lean angle.  The biggest help for me was knowing I could take a little risk, enter the "test turn" outside my comfort zone, and, if I blew it, I could just straighten out the turn and circle back to try again.

--If I could be anywhere right now, I'd still be out there, on my bike, in the wilderness.

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Offline CIG4R

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2012, 08:38:40 AM »
Maybe in the same boat as the OP 3,500 miles in, for me I'm thinking the stock tires have a lot to do with it, it's a wrestling match to get the Connie leaned.  Not sweating it to much still learning the bike, so if I need to so slower through the curve that cool...for now.
Was on the Connie following a buddy on a Yamaha Tenere through some mild twistes and he noticed I was falling way back as we were going through them, opposed to taking the same curves on my DR650 with a Kendra tire at way more speed.


Offline wally_games

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2012, 11:36:53 AM »
The more I ride, the more lean I can get without encountering discomfort. I have a maximum lean angle today, but as I ride there more often, the "maximum" gets further over. It's just about practice and time in the saddle.

I guess I'm saying, if you're 90% confident at 70% lean today, eventually you'll become 100% confident at 70% and 90% confident at 80% lean. Once you're at 100% confident at 80% lean, ..., etc. etc. etc.

Next thing you know you're taking corners at 2.5x the posted recommended speed and dragging your elbow and knee. Well, maybe not on this bike.
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Offline Fretka

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2012, 11:45:07 AM »
The Connie is designed to be safe and maintain grip right up to and beyond the point where something will scrape. The only issue is the knee-jerk fear (unfounded) that you might slide and the resultant grab brakes and stand the bike up reaction. The last will hurt you. Relax and let the bike do it's thing, DO NOT freak and input brake or steering commands.
Chances are most of you have probably leaned your bike much further than you ever realized. Take a look at the lean angle on my avatar, almost touching the shifter and completely safe with worn Angel tires.

Smoothness does it every time. Disclaimer - none of the above applies to people running car tires!

Fretka
Wretched excess visited upon an innocent C-14

Offline dvitous

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2012, 12:16:22 PM »
That fear isn't irrational at all, it is fear of what COULD happen that keeps you safe.

Yep.. true statement.  But also, you have to realize that no matter how safe you ride, "stuff" happens  :o
 
I went down in a gentle sweeper about 25-30mph.  Didn't see gravel in the road, and I still have no clue if I did anything "wrong" to cause me to break traction. 
 
Now I've had close calls before.  What always amazed me was that I was able to detect, and by some miracle, recover.  But I was aware of the whole event.
 
What amazed me when I experienced "sudden pedestrian syndrome", was that I had *NO* clue what was going on... til I was skidding down the road, divested from the bike.
 
Safe riding, confidence, skill... didn't seem to play into anything here... sometimes it's just go-time.
 
(btw... a guy who lives just past that corner came out to help...said I was the 4th bike to go down that year!  >:(  )
Dan Vitous
Naperville, IL

Offline snarf

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2012, 12:52:09 PM »
Press, Lean, and Believe. When ya run out of lean; praying sometimes helps.
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Offline ssmith

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2012, 01:07:55 PM »
It sound like you can benefit from an MSF ERC (aka BRC2).  This course has a lot of focus on basic cornering technique and will go a long way to identify what may be causing your cornering apprehension and difficulties.  During the course the Ridercoaches can evaluate and coach you in the use of proper cornering technique.  After the course you can then practice these skills more on your own and be ready for a more advance course like the MSF ARC-ST, Total Control, or maybe even a good track school.

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Offline basmntdweller

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2012, 01:44:43 PM »
As I mentioned before I have been through the ERC twice through my local ABATE group.

Quote
(btw... a guy who lives just past that corner came out to help...said I was the 4th bike to go down that year!  >:(  )

Could be the same guy that keeps spreading the sand across the lane >:(

I have a email in to Sportbike Track Time. I am going to try to do a 2 day weekend over Memorial day if I can work out the details. It will be at the track in Joliet IL. It will be the South course on Sunday and the Full course on Monday. They claim to teach in classroom as well as coach on track sessions. Of course, I will be registering for the slow novice group. If I was sure nothing would happen to my bike, I'd just ride up for the weekend but not that confident. Planning to trailer Connie there and back.

Matt
'09 C14
'98 DR-350
'11 Suzuki C50T wife's ride since she hates my Connie
'03 Honda CBR600RR track bike

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2012, 02:45:39 PM »
Maybe in the same boat as the OP 3,500 miles in, for me I'm thinking the stock tires have a lot to do with it.

I was fighting mine in the curves on the stock tires to maintain my lean angle (the bike wanted stand back up all the way through), after installing PR3s it was a totally different bike....Night and day I would say.

Offline Awaz

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2012, 04:06:14 PM »
The other day, my wife commented to me that I am seemed to be more confident on the bike. Music to my ear because she lost confidence herself when I dumped her quite a few months ago on a slow U-turn. When I am riding solo (which is not that often), I practise taking corners a bit more aggressively and do slow speed maneuvering. This helped a ton. But as others have pointed out, switching out the front tire made a big difference as well. The stock tire was getting an odd shape, feels like it slips when taking corners, and really felt weird. After switching out (albeit it is a Shinko - not a PR2 or PR3), I can now appreciate how different it is with the new tire - the bike corners with so much less input. I do however want to point out that with wife on the back, I still get a bit nervous (which is bad) on slow speed cornering. Although she is about 120 lbs or so, I definitely feel that weight on slow speeds. Twisties is another story - she just does not like it when the bike leans too much - she will do all kinds of crazy stuff on the back. I keep telling her she will get us both killed or maimed. Not that I lean that much to begin with, my feeler will be good few inches off the ground and yet she does not like it whatsoever. So, guess no twisties for me unless solo, which is fine by me. But I do need to gain more confidence on slow speed with her on board. I am taking some ERC this June and hope I learn a few tricks.

I also wants to point out that knowing your limits, which can manifest itself as fear, is a good thing. But with fear can come nervousness and that can be a bad thing. When you are taking a corner and you get nervous, you can make all kinds of mistake.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2012, 04:05:25 PM »
Press, Lean, and Believe. When ya run out of lean; praying sometimes helps.

But proper safety equipment helps even more:  certified full face helmet, armored jacket, gloves, heavy boots....
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Pokey

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Re: Lean angle alarms keep going off
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2012, 07:25:27 PM »
I find the C14 to be very easy to ride quickly and easily in the twisty bits, very balanced and carries the weight very well. I just wish it had a reverse, that is the only time I really notice the weight. :o  And yes proper tires makes a big difference.
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