MC Enterprises Concours Canyon Cage Discussion

[SANDPSYCHO]

Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?

One idea is along with Black and chrome is offer them raw metal. It would allow the few that want an uncommon color to paint them up as they like. It would also be ideal for those that want to add light mounts, highway pegs, fishing pole holders, ladder rack, pinwheel holders, etc, and have them coated on their own.

[ZG]

Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?

 

[Conrad]

Oh believe me I've loved these bikes from the beginning. We've been making parts for them for a few years now so I've had the pleasure of being around them quite a bit. They're an all-around great bike for sure, it's no wonder cops use 'em. To tell you the truth, though, I've wanted a Harley since I was a little kid. My Dad rides a Harley (among other bikes) and I've always thought it was the most bad ass thing ever. I currently ride a 2011 Yamaha FZ8 and have been looking at a few different bikes to get serious about once I'm done paying off the FZ in a year or so. Although, that's not to say a Connie isn't somewhere in my future. They really are awesome and I could definitely see myself gleamin' down PCH on one!

Hey Ryan, have you ever seen this?

You seem like a guy with a good sense of humor, I think that you'll enjoy it.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word

[maxtog]

To tell you the truth, though, I've wanted a Harley since I was a little kid. My Dad rides a Harley (among other bikes) and I've always thought it was the most bad ass thing ever.

Go ahead and break the illusion... get one.  It won't take long before you want to trade it in for a Concours

[gPink]

Go ahead and break the illusion... get one.  It won't take long before you want to trade it in for a Concours

Goes back to that lean angle question.

[4cedars]

Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?

You are correct!

If you were to remove all the plastics it is a chore.

The problem is most of the time whatever may go wrong on the road you can get to, or at least see,  from under the upper plastics, which I can have off in 5 minutes per side, as most others who have taken them off more than once would be able to do also.

I am hesitant to start pulling engine mount bolts along the side of the road or in parking lots so I am able to pull the plastics to get to a throttle cable end, cruise control cable or whatever else it may be.

The reason for this is when I mounted my highway pegs to the upper engine mount on the left side, the bolt would not start in the threads. The hole was less than a half thread off. I had to place a scissor jack under the engine and put a slight amount of pressure on the engine and the bolt went right in.

One of the tools I do not carry on a IB ride or flower-sniffin ride is a scissor jack, nor do I want to be concerned about the consequences, if for some reason I had to remove the uppers, whether or not I would be able to get that bolt back in.

So no, there is no race to see how fast one can get the plastics or the crash bars off. Just a practical concern of where it is the most inconvenient place something will happen when the time comes that I HAVE to get the bars off. I do not get 15000 miles a year in a 7 month riding season by riding back and forth to work.

If this newly designed unit were similar in design to the R&G unit with the upper engine bolt needing to be removed to get the uppers off, I would pass on them just as I have on the R&G units, simply because it would not meet my needs for what I find necessary for me personally. At that point I would have to bite the bullet and purchase the Top Block units because I feel that strongly about having access to the upper plastics.

John
   

[RyanMCEnterprises]

One idea is along with Black and chrome is offer them raw metal.

We do offer them in raw metal! Sometimes, all you have to do is ask! 

Well, maybe not offer but we have no problem hooking up customers with a raw set if they ask for it. Actually, I believe someone in this group buy purchased a raw set. It may take a little longer to ship out as we have to wait for the current production to come through and then we just pluck one out before sending the rest off to our finishers.

Hey Ryan, have you ever seen this?

You seem like a guy with a good sense of humor, I think that you'll enjoy it.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word

No joke, I've seen nearly every South Park episode ever made! I haven't seen much of the newest season but I am definitely a fan of SP!

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?

You are correct!

If you were to remove all the plastics it is a chore.

The problem is most of the time whatever may go wrong on the road you can get to, or at least see,  from under the upper plastics, which I can have off in 5 minutes per side, as most others who have taken them off more than once would be able to do also.

I am hesitant to start pulling engine mount bolts along the side of the road or in parking lots so I am able to pull the plastics to get to a throttle cable end, cruise control cable or whatever else it may be.

The reason for this is when I mounted my highway pegs to the upper engine mount on the left side, the bolt would not start in the threads. The hole was less than a half thread off. I had to place a scissor jack under the engine and put a slight amount of pressure on the engine and the bolt went right in.

One of the tools I do not carry on a IB ride or flower-sniffin ride is a scissor jack, nor do I want to be concerned about the consequences, if for some reason I had to remove the uppers, whether or not I would be able to get that bolt back in.

So no, there is no race to see how fast one can get the plastics or the crash bars off. Just a practical concern of where it is the most inconvenient place something will happen when the time comes that I HAVE to get the bars off. I do not get 15000 miles a year in a 7 month riding season by riding back and forth to work.

If this newly designed unit were similar in design to the R&G unit with the upper engine bolt needing to be removed to get the uppers off, I would pass on them just as I have on the R&G units, simply because it would not meet my needs for what I find necessary for me personally. At that point I would have to bite the bullet and purchase the Top Block units because I feel that strongly about having access to the upper plastics.

John
 

This is a great thought. Honestly, at first, I was thinking to myself: "Why would anyone really need to get the bars off THAT easily or quickly. Don't they have any patience?" I figured the sacrifice in strength and the added weight wouldn't have been worth it for a quick-release but I was looking into the matter regardless because, frankly, a quick-release would be kind of cool if it worked properly. If a quick-release doesn't end up working, would you be okay with a set of bars that allowed you to maybe loosen the fairings without removing the bars? That way you can at least loosen them to peek around if you really need to. I'm just trying to think of another solution that would serve the purpose your describing if a quick-release ends up being unfeasible.

[wally_games]

Maybe a quick release could be made that had a necked down end on the bar that fit into the end of the mount (portion "permanently" attached to the bike) and the junction held in place by a ball-pin, cotter pin or something similar. The connection would be in a place that's very near the engine or hidden somewhat by the fairing. Since most of your tip-overs would be trying to jam this joint together, it might work.

Hopefully you understand what I'm describing with my having to resort to doing a sketch, LOL.   

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Maybe a quick release could be made that had a necked down end on the bar that fit into the end of the mount (portion "permanently" attached to the bike) and the junction held in place by a ball-pin, cotter pin or something similar. The connection would be in a place that's very near the engine or hidden somewhat by the fairing. Since most of your tip-overs would be trying to jam this joint together, it might work.

Hopefully you understand what I'm describing with my having to resort to doing a sketch, LOL.   

I totally understand! In fact, this is very similar to an idea I had on the quick-release issue. In fact, the Canyon Cage we make for the GSXR has a connection similar to this underneath the bike where the bars meet so I know it can be done and that it holds up. Now, all I need is the green light from the guy upstairs and a bike to work on! Actually, a very kind forum member already offered his bike up so as long as I get the go ahead we can start seriously testing out some of these different ideas!

[Gumby]

Actually, a very kind forum member already offered his bike up so as long as I get the go ahead we can start seriously testing out some of these different ideas!

What year bike?

Post a name and a number and I bet we can get a few persuasive people to call upstairs.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

What year bike?

Post a name and a number and I bet we can get a few persuasive people to call upstairs.

I believe it was a 2010.

Hahahahah someone recommended that earlier and I'm sure people harassing the boss man would hurt more than help, unfortunately. I've known the guy for 25 years, talking him into doing stuff he isn't hell-bent on doing himself takes some serious finesse. I'm working on it for you guys, though!

[The Pope]

Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?

The current set-up, the front right bar, to get it off and on is a balancing act. The plastic has to hang onto the bar while it is being installed. If the this bracket were a two pc design where the upprt mounting points tube was only like 2" long with a solid pin welded in this tube, the remaining bracket can slide onto this pin, have a cross pin to lock it in place and still bolt up at the current lower mounting point. This way, one bolt to remove and one cross pin to pull and it's off. A simular set-up for the left would work too. With a set-up like this, new designs can use the same mounting points on the bike and can have different bar shapes outside of the plastic. Also this set-up should only take 5 min's to take it off or to put it back on once the upper mounting points have been installed.

Ryan, if you would like to know more about how I think that this can be done, I'll gladly discuss it with you.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

The current set-up, the front right bar, to get it off and on is a balancing act. The plastic has to hang onto the bar while it is being installed. If the this bracket were a two pc design where the upprt mounting points tube was only like 2" long with a solid pin welded in this tube, the remaining bracket can slide onto this pin, have a cross pin to lock it in place and still bolt up at the current lower mounting point. This way, one bolt to remove and one cross pin to pull and it's off. A simular set-up for the left would work too. With a set-up like this, new designs can use the same mounting points on the bike and can have different bar shapes outside of the plastic. Also this set-up should only take 5 min's to take it off or to put it back on once the upper mounting points have been installed.

Ryan, if you would like to know more about how I think that this can be done, I'll gladly discuss it with you.

This was actually very similar to what I was thinking as well and I have some ideas as to how I can get it to work too. However, I'm always open to hearing other thoughts and ideas on the matter! Feel free to discuss it here (so others can comment or add ideas) or PM me with more information!

[gPink]

One thing to keep top of mind in this discussion is that the bars are sacrificial. Meant to be damaged or even destroyed in the event of a crash. Their function is to first protect the rider then the bike. The hard part is making them look good doing it. If they fail in their function do to weak points then form is irrelevant.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

One thing to keep top of mind in this discussion is that the bars are sacrificial. Meant to be damaged or even destroyed in the event of a crash. Their function is to first protect the rider then the bike. The hard part is making them look good doing it. If they fail in their function do to weak points then form is irrelevant.

Exactly this! This is one reason I've strayed away from quick-releases in the past. It just seems like it reduces the strength too much, which then makes the bars pointless. Although, we used a variation of a slip joint on our GSXR Canyon Cage that I believe may come in useful when designing a quick-release mechanism. This is something I'm going to look into more once I get the bike in our facility.

However, it's funny that you mentioned the bars being sacrificial because I was just thinking about this earlier. If we could somehow get a quick-release bar to work, all you'd need to replace in case of an incident is that single outer bar that took the hit.  The hardware and base mounting plates/equipment would more than likely be okay to reuse, whereas the outside bar would need to be replaced. So, this would at least stop you from having to purchase an entirely new set if you did go down and would help keep repair costs on the low side.

[SANDPSYCHO]

Some good points for easy removal. Some crash bar systems can be swung down and outta the way by removing just 2 bolts maybe that would be an option. Everything is a compromise easy removal = higher cost and more weight. The main thing is they work and look good, then comes cost. Being able to easily remove these on the roadside isn't as much a concern for me as I'm not putting them on a Harley or a BMW. 

[The Pope]

If we could somehow get a quick-release bar to work, all you'd need to replace in case of an incident is that single outer bar that took the hit.  The hardware and base mounting plates/equipment would more than likely be okay to reuse, whereas the outside bar would need to be replaced. So, this would at least stop you from having to purchase an entirely new set if you did go down and would help keep repair costs on the low side.

Yes! The best of both worlds!

[4cedars]

This is a great thought. Honestly, at first, I was thinking to myself: "Why would anyone really need to get the bars off THAT easily or quickly. Don't they have any patience?" I figured the sacrifice in strength and the added weight wouldn't have been worth it for a quick-release but I was looking into the matter regardless because, frankly, a quick-release would be kind of cool if it worked properly. If a quick-release doesn't end up working, would you be okay with a set of bars that allowed you to maybe loosen the fairings without removing the bars? That way you can at least loosen them to peek around if you really need to. I'm just trying to think of another solution that would serve the purpose your describing if a quick-release ends up being unfeasible.

Ryan, That would be perfect. At least having the option to look behind the uppers would have enough benefit to satisfy myself.

Thank you for the opportunity and taking the time to discuss the concerns of this group as individuals and at least attempting to take it all in for the design of a product that will benefit us. It is a farkle that is sorely lacking and long overdue for this bike form an affordability and functionality standpoint.

My hats off to you

John

[Texas Concours14]

I am reading this thread with great interest, and looking forward to the product.  I appreciate you going to the core customers for input.  My primary interest is in tipover protection (e.g., falling over while parked).  [If the bike hits the ground while running at speed, I don't expect to have much clean plastic afterwards.]  Also, I prefer no drilling.