PCV Tunes

[Wes Carper]

Interested in trying a different tune on my C14.  Flies out, slipon exhaust.  Previous owner says it was dyno tuned but having ridden some bikes that make a bit less power than this one SHOULD be making, I am not convinced.  Anyone have a tune I could load up to see if I am correct?  Otherwise I may tinker a bit myself.

[Wes Carper]

Also maybe it's just the tall 1st gear that makes me think that.  Comparing it to my 2001 ZRX it doesn't seem to pull as hard even though the ZRX only had 123hp and 80ft lbs.  I know it was 100+ lbs lighter but this bike should also be pushing a good bit more torque and HP.

[Wes Carper]

Nevermind everyone, found the Muzzy slipon flies out map on Dynojet's Website.  Gonna pull my map and compare and maybe load that one up to see how it goes.  It should be close enough in any case that I should be able to tell if it's got a decent tune on it.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

 this is in no way advertising, but I absolutely don't see the point in a pcV. All it can do is alter the TPS based fueling. it can't alter the iap fuel maps, and it can't add fuel to the off throttle fuel cut. It can't alter timing or VVT mapping. Back in the day it may have been the only way to make fuel changes when meaningful hard part changes were made for drag racers, but that was a long time ago. Another problem is that the maps you download come from some other "user" who has decided to share his map. Then you have to wonder, how were the afr values developed, selected and applied? Was it done with datalogging, or guessing? Most folks aren't aware of map sharing and how it's generated, but this is a simple fact.
   BTW I have a versys 1000 with 80# TQ and 124 hp  and 150# lighter than the c-14... so virtually the same as your ZRX. It's a nice bike but not comparable to my c-14, which crushes it on acceleration. Think about how fast you're rowing through the gears on the zrx... that's why it seems faster, but it's not.
  Steve

[Wes Carper]

You are probably right, the bike already had a PCV so I figured I'd give it a chance prior to going with a reflash.  Just bored and want to try something different.  The ZRX was also down a tooth in the front and I think up one or two in the back so seat of the pants is probably not a great comparison.  If this was a chain drive bike I would have already changed the gearing it just doesn't pull as hard as I want it to.  Don't get me wrong, it's plenty fast, it's just TOO refined...I need a little "Holy Crap!" in my life LOL

[maxtog]

You are probably right, the bike already had a PCV so I figured I'd give it a chance prior to going with a reflash.

No problem there, since it is there/free   I would probably do the same thing.  If you decide to reflash, I hope the previous owner gave you the flies (secondary throttle plates) he removed, since you will likely want to reinstall them.

Just bored and want to try something different.  The ZRX was also down a tooth in the front and I think up one or two in the back so seat of the pants is probably not a great comparison.  If this was a chain drive bike I would have already changed the gearing it just doesn't pull as hard as I want it to.  Don't get me wrong, it's plenty fast, it's just TOO refined...I need a little "Holy Crap!" in my life LOL

I had a ZRX 1100 also (re-jetted, of course), before the Concours 1400.  The Concours (reflashed) is much faster.  Even though it weighs considerably more, it has EFI, VVT, and considerably more displacement.  But it is also geared a lot taller- part of that refinement

I loved the ZRX.  Was easy to maintain, fun to ride, lots of grunt.  I dove it for something like 11 years?  But as I got older, I really wanted something more comfortable/protective/smooth with more storage and no chain.  My ZRX starting having lots of carb problems the last years (regardless of repairs).  That, I don't miss... nor the freezing wind.

[Wes Carper]

Yah the ZRX was a hoot, mine had ZX11 cams and then I added pods and rejetted.  Always tuned my own carbed bikes, it seriously dyno'd 123/80 which was pretty good for that setup.  7500 it started reaching for the sky with the way it was geared.  As the Concours is now , if I go off throttle about halfway up the revs and back on it will pull up but just going wide open it stays planted.  Just doesn't feel right to me for a 1400cc I4 even if it is detuned a bit from the 14 especially with flies out and a tune.

[maxtog]

even if it is detuned a bit from the [zx?]14 especially with flies out and a tune.

The C14 isn't "detuned."  Factory, compared to it's sister, the ZX14, the C14 is tuned precisely to have considerably more lower-end power.  More power in the areas it is used more frequently fits the goal of a sport-touring bike.  The main problem with the C14 is the limitations imposed on it for sound and emissions control, and throttle lag, which a PCV/flies out or reflash will fix.  The C14 has more power than the ZX14 below 7500 and more power than the ZX14R below 6200.

[Mr2U]

I have had a ZRX with pods and a pipe for 10 years, and my C14 is way more powerful.

however you could not appreciate it, until i got Steve in Florida to flash it, w/ mountain runner,
now its the rocket it was always meant to be, and smooooth.

I put a slip-on, on the C14 to go with the flash, if your flies are out, put them back in for the flash.

[maxtog]

however you could not appreciate it, until i got Steve in Florida to flash it, w/ mountain runner, now its the rocket it was always meant to be, and smooooth.

Nor could one really appreciate it unless they are first used to the bike in the stock form.

I put a slip-on, on the C14 to go with the flash

The C14 isn't a 1930's to 1980's (or so) design with non-optimized components.  A "slip-on" (muffler and possibly mid-pipe replacement) without TB and both headers and full pipe will have negligible effect on performance because the factory exhaust system is not restrictive.  The CAT isn't restrictive either.  And even if all 6 components are replaced, it isn't "more power", you will lose the low-end power and shift it to the high RPM band...  behaving more like the ZX14.   The only real effects a muffler-alone change will have are: looks, sound, and weight.  Looks and sound are personal preference, I find the stock system looks fine and sounds fine (and I certainly don't want any increased noise).  Weight, compared to the rest of the bike, it is also pretty negligible, although the stock muffler is pretty heavy.

[zrx mitch]

My ZRX is quicker than my piped/flashed C14, maybe the 1224 (160hp and much lighter) makes a difference? 


Max, the smaller ID stock head pipes help low end but can't breathe with a full exhaust up top. Apples and Oranges.....

[maxtog]

Max, the smaller ID stock head pipes help low end but can't breathe with a full exhaust up top. Apples and Oranges.....

I am just going by information I gathered from others, that even at peak RPM, the muffler is not a single restriction point because entire exhaust system (headers, cat, pipes, and muffler) is matched.  I have no direct data, but I remember it seeming reliable at the time.  I wasn't speaking to an entire exhaust and header replacement, that is a different story (which I did mention in the last post, but perhaps it wasn't clear).

In the way back, bikes often had a restrictive muffler (poor design, probably just to pass EPA at the time), and that ended up causing a considerable single-point loss of power because it was overly restrictive for the rest of the system.  That is not the case on the C14.  Replacing just the muffler makes only a slight change, it isn't the "must have" like on the old bikes (technology improved, which is not a surprise).  Loud is not power

Someone else on the forum was obsessed with the CAT, thinking IT was restrictive and actually cut it out.  Nope, no significant change in performance.  It did run a little cooler near that area.... and the bike was then highly illegal   I believe most swapping out of stock mufflers with aftermarkets is also illegal, but I think that just is somehow accepted (not sure why, it is certainly visible enough) but it also doesn't cause major emissions no-no's.   Of course, reflashing the bike or using a PVC is ALSO illegal... but it is also not easy to spot and, overall, with a good tune, can actually not harm emissions much in the "real world."  On mine, my even MPG went up, overall.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

I am just going by information I gathered from others, that even at peak RPM, the muffler is not a single restriction point because entire exhaust system (headers, cat, pipes, and muffler) is matched.  I have no direct data, but I remember it seeming reliable at the time.  I wasn't speaking to an entire exhaust and header replacement, that is a different story (which I did mention in the last post, but perhaps it wasn't clear).

In the way back, bikes often had a restrictive muffler (poor design, probably just to pass EPA at the time), and that ended up causing a considerable single-point loss of power because it was overly restrictive for the rest of the system.  That is not the case on the C14.  Replacing just the muffler makes only a slight change, it isn't the "must have" like on the old bikes (technology improved, which is not a surprise).  Loud is not power

   All correct. I've done a lot of dyno work messing with exhausts and components, and today's exhausts are engineered to work to a certain power level from front to back. This is why replacing the stock muffler will only get about 3 hp gain... the muffler is very closely matched to the flow capability of the header.

    One more point on the Concours header... the stock header produces the broadest / flattest torque curve of all, due to the crossover pipes. Every aftermarket header drops about 4 HP at 5000 rpm, and it can't be tuned out. So for the average Concours rider, there's no benefit to changing the header from stock. Most Concours riders really like the no-downshift roll-on power, and the bigger the aftermarket pipe, the more that goes away.

   Steve