Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: potshotpanda on March 25, 2012, 05:14:46 PM
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Hi,
Before I tear the bike apart any further, I'm hopeful that someone will have an idea of what I did to my bike last winter and how to fix it.
At one point during the non-riding season, I had started my bike to run it so it would at least know I wasn't totally ignoring it (stored outside with Stabile in the tank). She was a bit cranky to start but not too bad. I made the mistake of not staying with the bike and left the choke on. I came out to it about 10-15 minutes later with the engine racing and the temperature guage pegged to the high hot side. I shut the bike down immediately, got my gear and then took her out for a brief cool down ride. Nothing seems to have happened at that point.
I started the bike several times after that incident, with no issues and I did not let that scenario happen again.
As I started riding in the last couple of weeks, I noticed the temperature guage would heat up more quickly than usual when stopped in traffic and the last time I rode, there was a puff of smoke up around the steering head, oily smelling at that, when I stopped at the office. I was able to get her home and have just pulled the lower fairing on the right side of the bike. There is an oil film on top of the valve cover.
I'll admit to not being much of a mechanic as of late and before I decide whether to tear it down further, I'd like some ideas of what I did to her. She does start and run without issue and I checked the sight glass and believe I have sufficient oil, although it does look like it needs replacement, something I was planning on doing anyway this spring.
Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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Bummer.
Are you sure that the oilly film is not coolant? Are getting any whiff of that sweet coolant smell under any circumstances?
BTW, a couple of things. Changing the oil just before storing can/will cut down on the amount of contaminants in contact with the engine internals. A good thing.
Also, if you store the engine and systems correctly, you are not doing your engine any favors by starting it up once in a while. Just leave it until it's time to unstore it.
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Oil on top of the valve cover is generally coming up to through the spark plug wells -- any chance you did a valve adjust within a few thousand miles of the problem showing up?
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What about the crankcase ventilation system? I know that some people use block off plates but on a stock machine there is system of tubes, valves and hoses to vent the engine of blow-by. It's supposed to take the fumes back to the air filter. If the system is missing or has a hole, you could be getting some of this oily blow-by on top of the engine.
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What about the crankcase ventilation system? I know that some people use block off plates but on a stock machine there is system of tubes, valves and hoses to vent the engine of blow-by. It's supposed to take the fumes back to the air filter. If the system is missing or has a hole, you could be getting some of this oily blow-by on top of the engine.
Sorry Jim but that is two totally different systems that have nothing to do with each other. The system on top of the valve cover allows fresh air to enter the exhaust system to reduce emissions and the crankcase breather system is simply on top of the tranny area and is connected to the air box.
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Steve, it's definitely oil. I ran my finger down the top of it and confirmed it was oil before posting the question. Thanks for the storage tips.
Redzgrider: No valve adjustment by me. I bought the bike last spring with about 11000 miles on it and put about 7K on last summer/fall with nothing like this happening.
Jeff
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The temp needle was pegged in the red and you weren't even there to shut off the engine.
I hope you didn't blow the head gasket.I bet you won't leave the bike running and unattended again.
Perhaps you should change the coolant and look for oil in it. Pull the spark plugs out and check for deposits and ado a compression check.
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Thanks Mike. Rest assured I won't do that again. Thanks for the suggestion as well.
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Steve, it's definitely oil. I ran my finger down the top of it and confirmed it was oil before posting the question. Thanks for the storage tips.
Redzgrider: No valve adjustment by me. I bought the bike last spring with about 11000 miles on it and put about 7K on last summer/fall with nothing like this happening.
Jeff
It's time to adjust valves, especially with that new of engine. I would get yourself a set of spark plug well gaskets from Murphs' before taking it apart. Also figure on spark plugs.
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Thanks all for the feedback. Overall it sounds like I didn't do major damage to the bike. I will do a compression check, as suggested, and a valve adjust, replace the coolant (with flush), oil/filter, spark plugs and gaskets and see where that gets me.
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Thanks all for the feedback. Overall it sounds like I didn't do major damage to the bike. I will do a compression check, as suggested, and a valve adjust, replace the coolant (with flush), oil/filter, spark plugs and gaskets and see where that gets me.
On the cam(valve) cover gasket, it is designed to be reusable. Just get yourself one to keep around for when the old one gets nasty. FYI, my original cam cover gasket is still on at 161,xxx miles, though it looked pretty knarly last valve check. I do plan on replacing it this time. I'm up to 15-20k miles on my valve checks now, as movement slows way down once things get seated where they want to be. In view of that, I just figure on installing new well gaskets each time I'm in there. Cheap insurance. And Murphs' can use the business. ;)
Oh, and you might want to change out the brake and clutch fluids also, you shouldn't go over two years on the fluids.
I would suggest changing out the coolant hoses, also. Murphs' has a reasonably priced kit. Yours are now about 7 years old. That's getting to be on the old side for hoses. You don't have that many miles, but you do have the time thing going on. I would do it for peace of mind. Nothing like sitting on the side of the freeway with a blown $3 hose. A lot cheaper and easier to deal with at home. Just did mine again last weekend, about 6 yrs old, about 90-100k miles. Some were getting a bit soft. Also check/replace the radiator cap. The gasket can swell up over the years, causing the cooling system to not release pressure when it should. DAMHIK,IJK. I was lucky and just blew out the thermostat O ring, could have blown up the radiator($$$).
Have fun.
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I already have the valve cover gasket, oil filter, well gaskets on the way from Murph's. I also need to replace the rear brake pad before inspection this year, so those fluids will get changed as well over the course of this year. Makes sense to change out the coolant hoses as well, while I've got the bike torn down. As you said, cheap insurance.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll let you know how I make out.
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I have to put a shout out to Murph. I ordered parts Monday night (3/26) and they arrived today (3/29). Excellent service. I will return to his site to purchase other things I need for the bike.
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I have to put a shout out to Murph. I ordered parts Monday night (3/26) and they arrived today (3/29). Excellent service. I will return to his site to purchase other things I need for the bike.
Murphs'! When you need it now. ;D
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I have to put a shout out to Murph. I ordered parts Monday night (3/26) and they arrived today (3/29). Excellent service. I will return to his site to purchase other things I need for the bike.
Pretty magical place. I ordered a water pump wed afternoon, in my mail box on Sat afternoon, in my bike on Sunday afternoon.
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One other place the oil might be coming from is a split crush washer on the Y feed on the front of the motor.
Had this on one of mine. Easy fix but can be a PITA to get to.
On mine once I got the Y tube off I decided to replace it as was rusted to hellandgone!
Had a spare from a parts bin bike so fitted that.
The oil jets/mists up from the front, hits the underside of the gas tank and drips onto the valve cover.
You can see the Y tube clearly on this pic. Ignore the hole. That's where the piston came out @ 90Mph. ;D
(http://www.gtr1000.com/graphics/gearbox/BigHole1.jpg)
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One other place the oil might be coming from is a split crush washer on the Y feed on the front of the motor.
Had this on one of mine. Easy fix but can be a PITA to get to.
On mine once I got the Y tube off I decided to replace it as was rusted to hellandgone!
Had a spare from a parts bin bike so fitted that.
The oil jets/mists up from the front, hits the underside of the gas tank and drips onto the valve cover.
You can see the Y tube clearly on this pic. Ignore the hole. That's where the piston came out @ 90Mph. ;D
(http://www.gtr1000.com/graphics/gearbox/BigHole1.jpg)
In 1st gear????? :o
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I knew the Brit cars were made differently, but the bikes too? It seems the pistons go fore and aft as opposed to truk to keel.
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I knew the Brit cars were made differently, but the bikes too? It seems the pistons go fore and aft as opposed to truk to keel.
Only when their big-end bearings seize due to a blocked oil-way. :rotflmao:
Not my bike I hasten to add.
More pics can be seen here.
http://www.gtr1000.com/graphics/gearbox/jesal.htm (http://www.gtr1000.com/graphics/gearbox/jesal.htm)
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Well, the good news is the compression test showed all cylinders withing 10% of each other (#1-180, #2 -175, #3-180, #4-190). I've completed the valve adjustment and am now working on replacing the coolant hoses. I've also ordered the block off plate kit from Snarf, after looking my bike before tearing that stuff off and looking at the pictures what it could look like. While I'd like to order the stick coils from T-Cro, that may have to wait until next winter, I've got a son getting ready to enter college.
I'm suspecting the crush washer on the Y tube and am in the process of checking that out.
This is going slowly as it's been a long time since I've done wrenching on a vehicle and am putting bolts into labeled sandwich bags and taking pictures, so I know were things are supposed to go when I start putting them back together. More to come.
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Quick question: Since I'm in the process of replacing all the coolant hoses and have the radiator removed, I have a good view of the front of the engine. It looks like my oil leak came from the valve gasket which I've replaced. I'd like to be sure so my question is would it harm the bike if I ran it without coolant for a minute or two? I don't know of any other way to build up the oil pressure sufficiently to see if the leak is still there while I still have a good view of the front of the engine.
Thanks
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Sorry, but don't run it without coolant.
For starters it will overheat in certain areas of the motor (cylinder head) quite quickly.
Also, the water pump may get damaged running with nothing to push against.
If the new gasket is properly seated then it won't leak.
What I do is I stick the gasket to the valve cover using Blue Hylomar.
That way when ya take the cover off to adjust the valves the gasket stays on the cover.
When ya put it back in, if yer careful, you can make sure that the gasket is located correctly.
Once ya have the rad, etc back on you can still see the gasket if ya use a flashlight from the sides.
While yer in there check all the crush washers on that Y tube and if it's rusted, take it off and Rust Remedy & paint it before ya refit it.
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It looks like my oil leak came from the valve gasket which I've replaced.
Thanks
How did the oil get on top of the valve cover if it's the gasket that leaked?
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Thanks Boomer. Didn't think about the water pump, so I'm glad I asked. I will do the work on the Y tube since I'm at that point anyway.
Jim, I don't know where the like was coming from, but from what I saw on the front of the engine, that's just what it looked like to me. I took some photos of the front of the engine, but none show it as well as what I see with my eyes. There was no oil i the spark plug wells, but I replaced those gaskets as I had the valve cover off. I suspect that since I rode the bike before I discovered the issue that the airflow around the engine drove the oil up.
Jeff