Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: Toxz Qwaste on September 30, 2013, 01:05:09 PM
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The vid:
GOPR2900 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukdkgLYYbw#)
the story:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585 (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585)
"Cundalini want's his hand back"
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:yikes: HOLY $HIT!!! Sure wish he hadn't run over one biker but he was legitimately in fear of his life and with the family in the car I don't blame him.
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That story was all over the place. This is another case of not knowing what really happened. I sure wish we had the entire video that starts with why the biker placed himself in front of the SUV at the start of the video. Surely the passenger/wife called 911 during the incident, I sure hope so. I also hope some of the bikers called. Kinda funny how one bit claims the only injury was the driver, just after commenting on a biker having a broke leg, or 3 bikes hit, one rider. Which time? This story line as written actually has me leaning to the bikers side and a writer who dislikes bikers.
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Holy **** is right! People can be SO damned stupid!
Those bikers who tried to pull the diver from the SUV and the one who smashed the driver's window with his helmet are VERY lucky that the driver didn't have a gun. The dude smashing the window should have been shot!
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As someone who had a bunch of idiots try something similar on me with high noise making combustion engines, with wife and child in the truck, it isn't a nice feeling. I on one hand wouldn't have wanted to run one of them over, but I wasn't about to let a single one of them touch me or my family. They were total idiots trying what they did, blocking all lanes of traffic, and riding on the shoulders so nobody could pass... and slamming on their brakes in front of my truck... they thought it was pretty funny... My daughter crying her eyes out. It wasn't till they saw me on my cellphone with CSP that their stupidity ended.
All of this because I wouldn't slam on my brakes to let one of the idiots slide over into my lane because he pointed his finger at me to stop?!?! :o You can wait and go behind me, where there is space and nobody has to put their brakes on to let you in. That didn't sit well with the pack of animals...
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It all hinges on what happened at the scene when he hit the bike. "Sources said Lien stopped, but “feared for his safety” as several of the bickering bikers began to damage his SUV." If it actually became an unruly mob I don't blame him for taking off, especially with the family in the car. If on the other hand, the bikers were not physically threatening, then hitting a biker breaking his leg and running over 3 bikes would be unacceptable. I agree with Silverdammit that who ever wrote the article is vehemently anti biker. But it is really easy for me to believe a mob mentality could have occurred and that can get dangerous quickly.
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+10
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Don't see it as being much different than a flash mob beating people on the street. Need some manners taught. Learn how to live in a polite society. Right or wrong this guy feared for his family.
I lived through young and stupid and have very little tolerance for it now.
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There's just nothing good about any of that situation... :(
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That story was all over the place. This is another case of not knowing what really happened. I sure wish we had the entire video that starts with why the biker placed himself in front of the SUV at the start of the video. Surely the passenger/wife called 911 during the incident, I sure hope so. I also hope some of the bikers called. Kinda funny how one bit claims the only injury was the driver, just after commenting on a biker having a broke leg, or 3 bikes hit, one rider. Which time? This story line as written actually has me leaning to the bikers side and a writer who dislikes bikers.
+1 this case has been "tried" on the internetz all day, trillions of times over.
I'll be glad to hear the outcome once it goes through the judicial system too.
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"The commissioner said police were monitoring the ride " Doesn't seem they were 'monitoring' it very closely.
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"The commissioner said police were monitoring the ride " Doesn't seem they were 'monitoring' it very closely.
Maybe it was an undercover officer who got hit? Looks like some LA PD tactics were in use at the end :o
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I like most here, am usually on the side of the biker. As stated before, the SUV dude might be guilty as !#@. But, there are a whole bunch of bikers that are in trouble now.
I'm pretty sure I know what most of us would have done had we been in our car with our wife and 2 yr old daughter and been surrounded by those 100 bikers.....
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+1
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It seems that one of the knuckleheads has been arrested.
NEW YORK (AP) — A man driving with his family along a New York City highway was attacked by a group of motorcyclists who chased his SUV for more than 50 blocks after it bumped into one of the bikes, which had stopped suddenly, police said.
The assault on the 33-year-old man began around 1:30 p.m. Sunday on the West Side Highway after he got into an accident with one of the bikers around 125th Street. After the driver and motorcyclist pulled over, they were quickly surrounded by 20 to 30 bikers who began damaging the victim's Range Rover, police said.
The driver, who was traveling with his wife and toddler, struck two other bikers while fleeing, police said. The other bikers gave chase, pursuing him for about 2 1/2 miles, and again surrounded the vehicle. They pulled the man from the SUV and beat him, police said.
The man was taken to a hospital where he required stitches to his face. His wife and child were not injured. The man was not charged.
On Tuesday, police arrested the biker who was involved in the initial accident. Christopher Cruz, 28, was charged with reckless endangerment, reckless driving, endangering the welfare of a child and menacing. He was not injured in the accident.
Police said another biker suffered two broken legs after the SUV ran over him. A second biker suffered a leg injury.
Police believe some of the bikers belong to a gang known as Hollywood Stuntz. They said the motorcyclists were part of a planned but unauthorized event in which hundreds of riders gathered outside of Manhattan, with the intent of driving into Times Square en masse.
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I'm amazed at the 'slant' some of the writers take in their retelling of 'the event'.
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-videos/motorcyclist-paralysed-after-range-rover-ploughed-through-riders-at-a-rally/23643.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-videos/motorcyclist-paralysed-after-range-rover-ploughed-through-riders-at-a-rally/23643.html)
Read some of the comments. It really makes me wonder if some of those people even watched the video before shooting off their mouths.
Calling the illegal group ride a 'rally' attempts to lend a bit of legitimacy to it but falls WAY short.
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What a tragedy. After watching it closely again I absolutely believe the initial bump was the riders fault. He cuts in front by inches, goes ahead 20 feet or so, looks left away from the Range Rover and brakes. Here's what I suspect (read WAG) happened after that. The Range Rover clearly stopped but instead of getting out of the car with the usual "are you OK?", "let's exchange info..." he finds himself surrounded by bikers very quickly. So he is way too intimidated to get out of the car. This makes the bikers angry and they start rocking the car. He panics and flees. Now someone is paralyzed.
I'm sure many sheeple are crying "something has to be done!" and there are many brainless legislators more than willing to "do something". None of it good for bikers.
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Like everyone else on the internet, I wasn't there and I don't know what really happened. It's easy to speculate when you only have half the information, but the results are often not correct. Since the local police have an obvious bias against the motorcyclists, it's unlikely we'll ever find out the true facts.
What I do find interesting is that the "mob" only beat the driver. Despite all the media hype about the driver fearing for his wife and daughter, the "mob" didn't harm them. They only beat the driver who ran over one of their friends and several of their bikes. Imagine you're out for a ride with a bunch of your friends, and someone hit one of them, then ran over another and several bikes while running away. What would you do?
Another interesting thing is that the story seems to start with one of the bikers pulling in front of the Range Rover and hitting the brakes, causing the RR to hit him. How many of you have pulled in front of a car and hit the brakes for no reason? Makes me wonder what the RR driver did before the bike pulled in front?
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Like everyone else on the internet, I wasn't there and I don't know what really happened. It's easy to speculate when you only have half the information, but the results are often not correct. Since the local police have an obvious bias against the motorcyclists, it's unlikely we'll ever find out the true facts.
What I do find interesting is that the "mob" only beat the driver. Despite all the media hype about the driver fearing for his wife and daughter, the "mob" didn't harm them. They only beat the driver who ran over one of their friends and several of their bikes. Imagine you're out for a ride with a bunch of your friends, and someone hit one of them, then ran over another and several bikes while running away. What would you do?
Another interesting thing is that the story seems to start with one of the bikers pulling in front of the Range Rover and hitting the brakes, causing the RR to hit him. How many of you have pulled in front of a car and hit the brakes for no reason? Makes me wonder what the RR driver did before the bike pulled in front?
It doesn't matter what the RR driver did (up to a point) before the rider pulled in front of him and hit the brakes. If I was to pull in front of a SUV while riding my bike and hit the brakes I KNOW what is going to happen, I'm going to get hit. Who in their right mind does that? I'm going to hazard a guess and say that these idiots on bikes were out looking for trouble and they found it.
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Like everyone else on the internet, I wasn't there and I don't know what really happened. It's easy to speculate when you only have half the information, but the results are often not correct. Since the local police have an obvious bias against the motorcyclists, it's unlikely we'll ever find out the true facts.
What I do find interesting is that the "mob" only beat the driver. Despite all the media hype about the driver fearing for his wife and daughter, the "mob" didn't harm them. They only beat the driver who ran over one of their friends and several of their bikes. Imagine you're out for a ride with a bunch of your friends, and someone hit one of them, then ran over another and several bikes while running away. What would you do?
Another interesting thing is that the story seems to start with one of the bikers pulling in front of the Range Rover and hitting the brakes, causing the RR to hit him. How many of you have pulled in front of a car and hit the brakes for no reason? Makes me wonder what the RR driver did before the bike pulled in front?
wow, don't hardly know how to respond.
It doesn't really matter what happened before the video started. Maybe the SUV driver was an idiot. Not relevant. You (and 30 or your friends) cannot chase someone down, force your way into their vehicle, drag them out of their vehicle and then beat them half to death. In the interest of full disclosure, I have wanted to do that to someone before, more than one someone. However, I know that would be illegal and I would quite possibly end up in jail. Vigilante justice is illegal in the country.
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http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/10/run_over_mass_biker_has_long_criminal_record (http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/10/run_over_mass_biker_has_long_criminal_record)
Edwin Mieses, 32, never got a driver’s license in the Bay State, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said, but he was frequently nabbed behind the wheel, and even sentenced to jail for driving without a license, court records show. Mieses has a pending case out of Lawrence District Court for driving suspended, subsequent offense, said Carrie Kimball Monihan, spokeswoman for the Essex County District Attorney’s Office. Mieses also has 15 guilty findings for criminal offenses including distribution of cocaine, possession of a firearm without a permit, knowingly receiving stolen property, resisting arrest and several motor vehicle violations, court records show. - See more at: http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/10/run_over_mass_biker_has_long_criminal_record#sthash.JdgPBGAV.dpuf (http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/10/run_over_mass_biker_has_long_criminal_record#sthash.JdgPBGAV.dpuf)
Edwin is also a member of Law-town Riders.
We do our best to avoid these fellas.
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wow, don't hardly know how to respond.
It doesn't really matter what happened before the video started. Maybe the SUV driver was an idiot. Not relevant. You (and 30 or your friends) cannot chase someone down, force your way into their vehicle, drag them out of their vehicle and then beat them half to death. In the interest of full disclosure, I have wanted to do that to someone before, more than one someone. However, I know that would be illegal and I would quite possibly end up in jail. Vigilante justice is illegal in the country.
But it IS OK for some guy to run over some motorcyclists then flee the scene? And you think finding out the whole story isn't relevant?
Sorry, I was just pointing out that what you see in the news is slanted to increase ratings, and I'd like to know the true story before I condemn the motorcyclists.
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See the above post. He was a real angel.
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All's I have to say is in my case, here in Texas, if some idiot came at me smashing my window with his helmet, well let's just they wouldn't be looking to find out who he was. They would have know because he would be in the hospital (maybe) due to lead poisoning.
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Smashing the window came after he ran over said human,
not sure what I would do If my friend just got RUN OVER
I would not run over a dog,
I wonder if they did a toxicology report on the Range Rover driver , We all know many are on pills or coke these days ...
Time will tell
Saw several dirt bikers in the group of hellions , those guys are EVIL for sure ...
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My statement is not a reflection on either the driver of the Range Rover or the Bikers. I am just saying that regardless of the situation, if somebody came up to my vehicle and smashed the window they would either be in the hospital or dead.
I am still waiting to find out all of the facts, but regardless of that, what the bikers should have done is follow him and call the police and have him arrested. I understand that the video is actually longer than what was posted. I think what it may show is what happened more at the beginning than at the end.
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Playing devils advocate here. Would the SUV driver been in his rights to pull out a weapon and shoot the rider who initially slowed in front of him? My opnion on this entire event is still mixed, I am certain that the actions at the end were wrong, a vigilante act without doubt. I am also convinced that the SUV driver played a large part in what happened. I am also confused as to how the ride itself was illegal, I would make a large wager the group committed illegal acts during the ride and I believe the driver was indeed in fear-after he ran over the rider who slowed in front of him, I also believe he committed an assault (first rider he hit, second time he was indeed and rightly so in fear of his safety) with a deadly weapon, no differant than the act the riders did once he was stopped. The only innocents involved are the wife and baby in the SUV. 2 things happened, mob menatallity and a drivers false sense of security. I apologize for the run on sentence, kinda rambling. I just have a hard time pinning the blame on one side. If we removed the child and wife from the scenario how would the collective "we" feel? Remove the emotional response and please consider each act in the order committed.
If I were the driver of the SUV I would have NOT HIT the rider. If the driver had NOT HIT the rider we have no idea would would have happened after. I do know that if a rider took his helmet off and bashed in the window he would require medical attention or funeral home care. Why oh why is the intitial action (as recorded) being ignored by the masses? I am certain this wasn't the first vehicle this group passed or the first vehicle slowed down as these groups will do a rolling slowdaown so they can stunt on a clear road. Illegal as all get out, but as has been said, who made either party judge, jury, and executioner. IMHO I truly believe if the driver or his wife had made a call (after stopping) this never would have happened. To restate, what occured at the end is wrong and the perps must be help accountable. I also believe the driver should be held accountable for his actions as well.
So, what can we as riders do? Become a mentor to younger riders, discuss these types of events openly and without bias. If these younger riders want speed, encourage time at the track, if stunting is the goal locate a place free of cars, secure permission, and do it in a controlled manner. I for one find dirt to be the best place for stunt type riding, maybe encourage more riders to the dirt where these acts are OK.
FWIW, I am kinda tired of all the attention this is getting in the media, yet so very little on the recent terrorist takedowns in Somalia and Syria.
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From what I've seen from pictures, video, and eyewitness statements on TV... the wife's window was smashed as well, she was being pulled from the SUV when a man came to her aid. We have undercover NYPD that were part of the ride, but didn't participate in the rage... but did see things.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57606274/off-duty-police-officers-part-of-group-involved-in-nyc-motorcycle-road-rage-incident/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57606274/off-duty-police-officers-part-of-group-involved-in-nyc-motorcycle-road-rage-incident/)
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The rider who slowed down in front of the suv and got hit was not the one run over. That rider had minor injuries. The suv pulled over after the first contact and was surrounded. The suv then pulled away and ran over a rider who stopped in front of him. Just what I can see.
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The rider who slowed down in front of the suv and got hit was not the one run over. That rider had minor injuries. The suv pulled over after the first contact and was surrounded. The suv then pulled away and ran over a rider who stopped in front of him. Just what I can see.
Agreed. It is my belief that the SUV driver said screw it and hit the first rider out of road rage, something along the lines of "I aint gonna stop, screw it". The second incident he was indeed in fear as he knew they were mad because he hit one of their riders. Cause and effect. Short of knowing what led up to the bikers slowing in front of the SUV it could be argued that the first use of force was the SUV driver, which quickly spiraled out of control.
All bits of fact need to be studied before any definitive conclusion can be made.
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We don't know if the suv driver was looking straight ahead to see the bike slow down or if he was looking side to side or checking the mirrors. The suv drivers actions do not scream road rage to me but panic and fear.
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And inatentive driving is still no reason for excuse. Surely once he hit the bike he knew something had happened, yet he still left, surely in fear by now by his own action or lack of action. This driver is not faultless and I still hold to the fact that everything must be looked at with clarity, not clouded with emotion. Would this driver be held as an innocent if he had "accidently" shot the rider? Deadly force is deadly force.
I am still playing devils advocate as I really do not have a solid opinion on this incident as I do not have all the facts.
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Is it inattenion to be looking for a way out of being surrounded by a bunch of hooligan bikers and not expect an idiot to swerve in front of of you and slow down?
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He was in the middle lane and the rider didn't do a sudden swerve or a hard braking. The rider is clearly seen looking back as he applied his brakes. In all that time surely the driver would have seen him. Was the rider "acting stupidly" ( ;)) Yes. Did this stupid move need to be countered with a bumper? If I ran over every stupid person I saw on the street I would be in jail. This is an emotional case because of the sheer number of riders and the reputation they have built for themselves, please believe me when I say I have no sorrow for them or for the rider who may never walk again, he got what he gave, IOW, Karma came a calling. I also believe that the driver will get his own form of Karma, whatever that may be.
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the plot thickens....what a fine web we weave....
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20870446-undercover-cop-seen-on-video-attacking-suv?lite (http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20870446-undercover-cop-seen-on-video-attacking-suv?lite)
so tell me, if the undercover cop got run over, what the suv driver be guilty of assault on a police officer.... or even better yet, would they turn it into attempted aggravated homicide ??
yeah, betyerazz they would...
this cops days are numbered now.... along with the other 4 supposed undercover cops in the pack....
sweet.
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And what does it say about these cops that they would be riding with what is essentially and outlaw group that likes to speed, terrorize other drivers, and pedestrians also like to go stunting, riding on sidewalks, passing illegally, etc.
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The operative word is under cover. The question is how far do they go while under cover?
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As I understand it there may have been one person undercover, and even at that the question is whether he was actually undercover at the time or if that was his position outside of biking. I think it very doubtful that all 5, or however many there were, were undercover at the same time within that group.
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Did you read the posted artical?
May have?
Wow.
Seemed pretty clear to me, seeing as statements in writing are subject to legal action if they are not true.... ::)
I suggest you turn on the news.... the cop has been charged.....
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I said may have because there was some ambiguous information at the time. It is constantly changing and there could have been more than one. I heard on the local news this morning that there may have been two undercover cops there, both of which were off duty.
Also, I listen to the news all day and watch it at night so I get plenty of information. Not sure why you are so snarky about it. Please let me know when we actually have ALL of the information, then maybe I can make an intelligent response in this thread that would seem to you that I have some knowledge.
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Yes there is much speculation in this thread since we don't have all the information. But that is the nature of the beast. Since when do we have all the information on ANY news story?
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http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/09/undercover-detective-charged-in-motorcycle-suv-melee-due-in-court/ (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/09/undercover-detective-charged-in-motorcycle-suv-melee-due-in-court/)
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The cast of characters (so far)
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/top-lists/road-rage-case-breakdown-whos-who-in-the-motorcycle-melee/ (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/top-lists/road-rage-case-breakdown-whos-who-in-the-motorcycle-melee/)
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THREAD CLEANED
We WILL do without the racial undertones....
>:(
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Thanks Tony.
So, been out of the net since Thursday, any new "news"?
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Not that I've heard...