Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: speed545 on March 26, 2017, 04:27:58 PM
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hi guys
In prep for the incoming season, i noticed oil smell on start up few weeks ago. I had time to dig in a little bit today to see what it was. Cam position sensor is dry. Valve cover im not sure but before removing it, what is that sensor in the middle that looks like an elcetrical sensor. Is it purely electrical or it can leak oil?
Took me 3 hours to get to that valve cover :-\
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l440/speed545/20170326_173317_zpso6vjubed.jpg)
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l440/speed545/20170326_173355_zps6xe2gl3j.jpg)
(http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l440/speed545/20170326_180337_zpsde4rsqh9.jpg)
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THAT is the infamous leaky exhaust cam sensor... the one up top is the intake sensor, and never leaks...
Luckily, Murph is now selling the replacement o rings I used to sell, contact him and check website...
If the cam cover has not been off, and is not visibly leaking, dont remove it... just do the exhaust sensor o ring... clean it all off prior, to see...
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So the close up pic, 3th pics down is the exhaust cam position?
Valve cover been removed for valve adjust 3 years ago (15k)
Doesnt seem to leak
Thx MOB
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So the close up pic, 3th pics down is the exhaust cam position?
Valve cover been removed for valve adjust 3 years ago (15k)
Doesnt seem to leak
Thx MOB
Yep, that sensor is the one...
Here's what Murph placed on the other forum, best of luck, give him an email and he can hook ya up...
You've have read about it on the forums, and here it is. An oversized O-Ring to replace Kawasaki PN 92055-1639. The factory sized O-Ring has been a known leak source for awhile.
MOB was taking care of the clan by selling these on the cheap, and if folks would send a buck and a self-addressed, stamped envelope they were on the way. We tried to keep the price down but for whatever reason, when we tried using the standard drop in the mail envelope with a stamp a whopping 20% never made the trip. SO... we now ship these in our standard bubble envelope USPS 1st Class with tracking.
Two for $6, which of course includes the shipping.
Thanks to MOB!
Link right here:
http://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?products_id=528 (http://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?products_id=528)
murph
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When you say the cam position sensor is dry, I suspect you're talking about the INTAKE sensor which is on the top of the valve cover. It doesn't usually leak. The photo of the front shows the EXHAUST cam position sensor just above the exhaust, this is the one that is commonly leaking and yours looks "wet" which is the typical look of a leaking sensor. All the road grit that gets in there sticks to the wet oil and you get a mess.
Yes the o-ring from Murphs will fix this. You've already done the hard part by exposing the thing. Fixing it now is as simple as taking out the bolt, pulling the sensor out, replacing the o-ring, and re-installing it.
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The dry one was the intake. My bad
Thx for all thoses inputs.
I ll get in touch with murph
This forum is just incredible
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I have the famous MOB O-ring but my valve cover is definitely leaking. I've decided to pay the local dealership to do a valve adjust and of course they will put in a new valve cover gasket. If I were doing it, I would probably put a little bit of black permatex on it to make sure it does not leak again. Wondering if I should ask them to do that.
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I have the famous MOB O-ring but my valve cover is definitely leaking. I've decided to pay the local dealership to do a valve adjust and of course they will put in a new valve cover gasket. If I were doing it, I would probably put a little bit of black permatex on it to make sure it does not leak again. Wondering if I should ask them to do that.
I would. It is certainly not an unreasonable request.
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I have the famous MOB O-ring but my valve cover is definitely leaking. I've decided to pay the local dealership to do a valve adjust and of course they will put in a new valve cover gasket. If I were doing it, I would probably put a little bit of black permatex on it to make sure it does not leak again. Wondering if I should ask them to do that.
The FSM calls for sealant on the four cutouts on each side of the head. You might ask them to refer to the manual... ;)
But I'd replace the gasket anyway. Compared to the cost or time involved (if doing it yourself) it's a cheap insurance. The problem is not really getting it to re-seat/re-seal, but the rubber hardens over time and will often start leaking again even if you use sealant on a re-install.
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The FSM calls for sealant on the four cutouts on each side of the head. You might ask them to refer to the manual... ;)
But I'd replace the gasket anyway. Compared to the cost or time involved (if doing it yourself) it's a cheap insurance. The problem is not really getting it to re-seat/re-seal, but the rubber hardens over time and will often start leaking again even if you use sealant on a re-install.
Those are my thoughts too. Valve check/adjust is very labor intensive and expensive. The cost of a new gasket is minimal in comparison. I can't imagine not just replacing it with something new each time, especially if it has been several years. Of course, I say that without actually pricing the sucker :)
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The dealer is very unlikely to do anything but put factory parts into the bike with the specified methods (in this case, nothing but a few dabs of RTV sealant at the cam seals).
But it is the method I chose to address the problem; I brought the valve cover into the laundry room and scrubbed it clean with a brush using soap and water until it was CLEAN. Then squeezed a bead of about 3/16" into the seal valley on the cover, then put the seal in and sat the cover onto the seal on a flat surface. Let the RTV set up and reassemble. It worked for a long time in my case and was noticeable when reassembling in that the valve cover screws drew- down for more distance and somewhat harder than with a stock seal.
Of course there is the risk of using too much RTV and having too much resistance screwing (Easy Boys!) down and doing some damage, most probably cracking the case al. cover.
It is a less- than- great design which is disappointing because Japanese vehicle mfg.'s are particularly good at making vehicles (and showing the world how to make vehicles) that DO NOT leak. Then again, if something has to go chronically wrong, better a weeping valve cover gasket than, say, weak piston crowns or bad output bevel gears, etc.
Brian
I have the famous MOB O-ring but my valve cover is definitely leaking. I've decided to pay the local dealership to do a valve adjust and of course they will put in a new valve cover gasket. If I were doing it, I would probably put a little bit of black permatex on it to make sure it does not leak again. Wondering if I should ask them to do that.
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Price one... its not cheap...
Oops, Brian was typing faster than I was... but I'll still post my thoughts...
But I bought one to have on hand, as I did when I was servicing C10's, and if you buy one, you will find that you will only need it if you totally damage the one in place...
These are pretty tough gaskets, and truthfully I feel they last a lonnnnnng time, and can be cleaned, and reinstalled many many times over, if you are careful,
And clean it well to remove the oily coating, and sealant /adhesive used at the factory to hold it to the cover, and also completely clean the groove.in the cover to remove all of that adhesive, and also clean all of the sealant used on the semi circle cutouts and anything on the head, you can reuse the gasket without issues... I use acetone for the cleaning, and stout blue cleaning wipes.
Before I install, I run a very SMALL (about pencil lead diameter) bead of black rtv around the center of the groove in the cover, about a hlaf hour before I plan to reinstall the cover, and then stick the cleaned gasket firmly and evenly in that groove, and set it upside down on my bench with about 5# of weight on it to "glue" the gasket in place for handling... I used to use monkey grip tire patch glue applied with a large syringe for that, but cleaning the syringe was a p.I.t.a., it did work great tho for gluing the gasket into the groove, and basically recreates what is done at the factory.. apply the glue, insert the gasket, then pull it back off and let it skin up for a minute or three, then stick it back in... very effective.
I then "smear" a thin layer of rtv around each semicircle area, I don't goober it up with a bead, that is wayy overkill, and it smooshes out into the valve area.. not good.
Re install the cover, while paying close attention the gasket didn't dislodge, and is evenly seen around the perimeter, and tighten it snuggly.
I've never yet come across a cover gasket that "hardened" to a point it was no longer pliable... but I'm sure someday I will... that's why I have a spare...
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Price one... its not cheap...
How much? I bet it is less than the labor time/rate for cleaning it well for reusing it, isn't it? That might explain why the dealership would replace it (although they can also charge for the part, of course). For home repair, I can certainly see trying to reuse it and add additional sealant and such (our time isn't typically worth as much). MY fear with reusing it is lack of experience cleaning it properly/correctly, and then ending up with a leak. Seems to be my luck with such things, if you know what I mean.
Since it seems to be a chronic problem with the C14 (leaky valve cover seal), when it is time (if my mechanic friend ends up doing the job with me as "assistant") I am going to order a new one AND try your method of adding a SMALL amount of RTV too, just to be sure. And I will replace that cam sensor O-ring at the same time with the larger version, whether it is leaking or not!
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Ok just ordered from Murphs
Went smooth
Question: to place the new o ring, do i use small amount of oil to sild it and then wipe off the excess?
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Ok just ordered from Murphs
Went smooth
Question: to place the new o ring, do i use small amount of oil to sild it and then wipe off the excess?
I am no mechanic, but that is what my mechanic friend taught me to do with most types of o-rings and seals- wipe on engine oil to lube it and put it in. Same thing with oil filters and such.
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What weight oil? :popcorn:
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What weight oil? :popcorn:
It only works if you use Amsoil ;)
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As the immortal Pokey would say....'Scamsoil!'.
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Ok just ordered from Murphs
Went smooth
Question: to place the new o ring, do i use small amount of oil to sild it and then wipe off the excess?
After you clean up all the goobered up gunk and are ready to insert the sensor, dip you finger in a small amount of engine oil, and smear it on the ring, and slightly coat the recess also... there should be nothing to "cleanup" afterwards, you don't need to pour the stuff on it, simply swipe some on sparingly,
If you find insertion is tight (and it should be... ), simply pinch the oring into the groove with your fingernails while shoving the sensor in, rotating it slightly helps also....
(No easy boys were used in this description.... )
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I guess this is as good a place as any to ask this question.
I just picked up a craigslist concours and I am going to restore it.Never had a Kawasaki before now.
There are plugs that go into the holes in the side of the head where the valve cover fits. i suppose they are for valve adjustments? but the plugs are missing.
I don't know what to call them so I can go find them online and buy them?
Anyone know what they are called?
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We need more information about the bike. You need a factory service manual.
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I guess this is as good a place as any to ask this question.
Sure is. Welcome! Make sure to put the year of your bike in your signature or avatar, and often mileage, since that will frequently matter when asking questions (no so much with this one, however).
I just picked up a craigslist concourse and I am going to restore it.
Just think "Con Coor" (it is French, it is not spelled nor pronounced "con course" like in an airport)
Never has a Kawasaki before now.
You will love it :)
There are plugs that go into the holes in the side of the head where the valve cover fits. i suppose they are for valve adjustments? but the plugs are missing. I don't know what to call them so I can go find them online and buy them?
I am not the best person to answer, since I have not performed or seen a valve adjustment on a C14 before. But based on experience with other motorcycle valve adjustments, I believe to perform a valve adjustment (or check), one must remove the entire valve cover. It cannot be done through any holes or openings in the cover. If there are plugs missing, I would be very concerned, especially if they left what was in the head open to the environment.
You might be interested in purchasing not only a factory manual (available from your dealer) but the Angel Ride videos: http://www.angelridevideos.com/concours.html (http://www.angelridevideos.com/concours.html)
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I found for another forum those plugs are actually part of or come with the head gasket. I guess the previous owner gouged them out without knowing.
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I found for another forum those plugs are actually part of or come with the head gasket. I guess the previous owner gouged them out without knowing.
That would have been my guess, also. You will have to replace the gasket.
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I think this gentleman is talking about a C-10, not a C-14.
Gpineau, what year motorcycle did you buy?
Brian
I guess this is as good a place as any to ask this question.
I just picked up a craigslist concours and I am going to restore it.Never had a Kawasaki before now.
There are plugs that go into the holes in the side of the head where the valve cover fits. i suppose they are for valve adjustments? but the plugs are missing.
I don't know what to call them so I can go find them online and buy them?
Anyone know what they are called?
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I think this gentleman is talking about a C-10, not a C-14.
Ah, you were very right. Of course, that is the reason I asked him to put the year in the signature or avatar... And he recently did! Because now it shows 1999, which is clearly a C10 and not a C14 (which started with 2008).
So, gpineau, you will want to post in a different forum, which would be this one: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?board=5.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?board=5.0) Have fun!
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I am at 12.4k miles and not going to make it to first 15k service. Leak has really increased since first noticing it at 6k miles. I believe the ex cam sensor oring is what the culprit is with latest increase here of late. I cleaned the entire front of the engine with a degreaser this past weekend and just want to monitor the leak closer. Guess I am going to attempt the repair and first valve check myself. Will purchase Murph's kit. Can't get any decent help locally from the dealerships. They all seem to want to run to the hills and hide from this model. Can't say I blame them, very hard bike to service the way it is engineered.
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Can't get any decent help locally from the dealerships. They all seem to want to run to the hills and hide from this model. Can't say I blame them, very hard bike to service the way it is engineered.
The C14 is big, complex, and difficult and expensive to service. Plus, because it is expensive and reliable, they don't see many. So it is not uncommon for dealers to have little experience and/or be scared of them. Trust me, I am more scared of them than they are of my C14. It the major reason I am at 30K and still have not had the valves checked, ever (or even the tank removed, ever). I am still holding out for my mechanic friend to help, but he has not been available. I don't want all my plastics damaged and things messed up...
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Hey, what do you expect when you get engineers involved? You get complex things like a C-14, suspension bridges, men on the moon and tomatoes in cans..... in short, all the evils of the modern world. I say we put the floor sweepers in charge of everything! That'll teach us!
We have met the enemy..... and with a little adjustment, he may be converted into a harmless lawn ornament methinks.
Brian
I am at 12.4k miles and not going to make it to first 15k service. Leak has really increased since first noticing it at 6k miles. I believe the ex cam sensor oring is what the culprit is with latest increase here of late. I cleaned the entire front of the engine with a degreaser this past weekend and just want to monitor the leak closer. Guess I am going to attempt the repair and first valve check myself. Will purchase Murph's kit. Can't get any decent help locally from the dealerships. They all seem to want to run to the hills and hide from this model. Can't say I blame them, very hard bike to service the way it is engineered.
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Funny thing is after 40 years of buying Suzuki's I cannot ever remember a valve cover leaking on any of them. Most were high strung GSXRs that were run to death right out the front door of the dealerships. Hell a valve adjustment does not even come up on the radar on those bikes. Waste of time. Plenty had been checked but did not require any adjustment. Vstroms were another story always out on the 1000s but 650 seemed stable. My only Yamaha street bike had long duration adj intervals and at the first one did need adjusting but never any leaks anywhere.
First Kawasaki and one google search reveals not one not two but many many instances of valve cover leaks on several models not just the C14. Kawasaki should revisit their valve cover design on various models from what I have been reading up online. It is apparent it is not that good at keeping oil in.