Speaking of Hydrogen

[VirginiaJim]

You know, I've been poo pooing the idea of hydrogen powered vehicles as it looks as though battery electric is predominate.   However I just read this article.....
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/wright-airliner-100-seat-aluminum-fuel-cell/


I think it makes better sense to use hydrogen on a large scale rather that with cars.   I know, Zeppelins, that's the ticket!

[DC Concours]

As long as it's flammability is controlled.

[maxtog]

As long as it's flammability is controlled.

Keep it away from oxygen

[gPink]

 

[VirginiaJim]

LOL

[Boomer]

I keep hearing and seeing people banging on about battery electric vehicles like they are the new messiah and the best thing since sliced bread. It's getting quite wearing now and I have started treating Teslavangelists the same as I do all obsessive nutcases. Yes, they do reduce your carbon footprint, no they don't make you a better person, no I am not going to spend my savings on a new vehicle when there is nothing wrong with my old vehicle.

Hydrogen has it's faults.
Safety is a problem, but as we have seen with the raft of EV fires recently it's not a unique problem and only idiots think that gasoline is safe.
Hydrogen has a different set of problems but the biggest one is the issue of efficiency vs battery electric vehicles.
In terms of process efficiency Battery Electric wins hands down with Hydrogen a poor 2nd and Power-to-liquid a distant 3rd, assuming the same method of power generation for all. (see attached).

Personally, I believe that for the rest of our lifetimes we will continue to see a mix of fuels used ranging from diesel Internal combustion right through to battery EV, but over time the bias will swing towards cleaner, more efficient methods. I have found that the cleanest method of all is to not drive at all. Since I started working from home full time, my carbon footprint has plummeted 

[Strawboss]

Hey Pink, my old chief was referred to as the manatee and for awhile we had that photo up on the board only much bigger to get your attention, it got his, he was smart and didn't let on that it bothered him. Thanks, had a good laugh, now, back to hydrogen.

[DC Concours]

While we are on Hydrogen, what about gas cars? We have busses running on natural gas. I don't think they have cars like that.

[Boomer]

While we are on Hydrogen, what about gas cars? We have busses running on natural gas. I don't think they have cars like that.

We have loads over here. LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) is available at most gas stations and most gasoline cars can be converted to run on both LPG and gasoline with a switch to choose between them. LPG is cleaner than gasoline, but not by much and it gives worse mileage due to less energy in the fuel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogas

[gPink]

Hey Pink, my old chief was referred to as the manatee and for awhile we had that photo up on the board only much bigger to get your attention, it got his, he was smart and didn't let on that it bothered him. Thanks, had a good laugh, now, back to hydrogen.

[VirginiaJim]

The more I think about this it makes better sense to fuel the big boys with Hydrogen and leave the little boys their batteries.  Less infrastructure to worry about although one has to think about what happens in a war and refueling the vehicles.  That stopped Germany in it's tracks (pun intended).

[Strawboss]

We got lots of coal now that we won't using as much with shutting down coal fired plants. Gas from coal? Germans did that too. Think positive, lets not go to war.

[VirginiaJim]

You can make hydrogen from coal, but brown coal is preferred.  Don't know how much pollutants come from that process.. 

[Boomer]

Keep the coal for making plastics when the oil runs out. We don't have to dig it all up now.

[DC Concours]

Only if people would walk and use their bicycles more. Better for their waistlines, hearts, environment and pocketbooks. Ask the Danes and Dutch.

[maxtog]

Only if people would walk and use their bicycles more. Better for their waistlines, hearts, environment and pocketbooks. Ask the Danes and Dutch.

Although I agree it is preferred and healthy, it is totally impractical based on where most people live/shop/work.  I intentionally bought a house near work so I could walk or bicycle every day.  It is at least some exercise and the car can stay protected and unworn in the garage.  I also save money, time, and frustration.  Environment had nothing to do with the decision.

But to visit friends, I still have to motorcycle or car.  And for errands and shopping, car.  I would be a great candidate for an electric car, since I have a garage and rarely, if ever travel that far.  Then I would have even better performance (well, because that is the type I would pick) with non of the ICE headaches- getting gas, fuel cost fluctuations, much more maintenance.  Again, decision would have nothing to do with environment.

[gPink]

Only if people would walk and use their bicycles more. Better for their waistlines, hearts, environment and pocketbooks. Ask the Danes and Dutch.

I drive 20 miles one way to work so a bicycIe is not happening. I walk 10 to 12 miles a day while I'm there. Waistline and heart are fine. My environment is ok but the pocketbook could always use some help. So that just your Danes and Dutch. What do you think I should ask them and why is their opinion relevant to my life in the US of A?

[Boomer]

Only if people would walk and use their bicycles more. Better for their waistlines, hearts, environment and pocketbooks. Ask the Danes and Dutch.

Denmark & Holland are mostly flat as the proverbial pancake. Cycling & walking is easy when you don't have to fight gravity.
Just because a solution works in one place, does not mean it works everywhere.

I used to commute 4 days per week by motorcycle (45MpgUK) until my wreck in 2017 made me realise that it didn't matter how good a rider I was, I was still vulnerable to the vast number of selfish incompetent ***holes who are permitted to drive on our roads.
So, for most of 2018 & 2019 I commuted by car (25MpgUK) for 2-3 days per week.
One of my colleagues asked me why I didn't cycle to work. I informed him that bicycles are not allowed on motorways and besides that the 60 miles would take me the best part of 4 hours EACH WAY. Only then did he stop to consider that I might not live close to the office. Just because something works for you, does not mean it will work for everyone.

Since Feb 2020 I have been working from home full time, my productivity has increased (measured by management, not by me), and I am less stressed and much happier. I have also drastically reduced my carbon footprint. Unfortunately I have also gained weight and I wasn't exactly svelte before. That I do need to get under control.

[DC Concours]

I know. There are lots of places in America where home, neighbors, work, and shops are miles apart, and bicycling is not feasible at all. Even in cities, bikes are hard to ride due to congestion. We are not set up for it really. It was just a comment for more bipedalism. We generally don't move much on our own power. Shows in our waistlines and diabetes rates. I gained 8lbs last year.

[Strawboss]

I'm open to alternative fuels in cars, I'm sold on electric cars for local commuting, the distances we have here are sometimes vast. We sold our souls to cars and cheap gasoline, and our cities and roads bring this point home. If Ford brought it's Diesel Fiesta over here I'd buy one in a second, I'm a distinct minority though. Electric, propane, hydrogen cars are all great ideas, the technology is advancing quickly, but, I want to make the decision to buy on on my own.