Mine is the +4 from Factory. Or is it Factory Pro Racibg? Same company that makes shift kits, jet kilts, and other go fast racing parts.

One of the members of the GPZ900R club in the UK makes and sells 4 degree ignition advancers for £20 each, a lot of club members have bought these and all bar one report noticeable improvements in throttle response and mid-range, whilst sacrificing a small amount of top end. (This of course relates to the GPZ900R/Ninja 900R)

The thing to bear in mind if doing this conversion is fuel quality, a good quality fuel will be quite happy with 4 degrees advance, but as fuel quality can be unreliable from one vendor to the next it may be best to stick with the standard unless you are happy with the quality of your fuel.

I personally have not done this conversion as I am not overly confident in the quality of european fuel sold outside of Germany. (and I like my top end more than midrange).

xjs36uk,
Thanks for you input.
One of the Products I've Looked at is from APE. Is is an adjustable/ slotted advancer. Looks like the high quality you expect from APE, but I've also looked into some Programmable boxes. All just Info gathering at this point. I also found where  removing .032" from the right side of the slot on the advancer will show as +4 when tightened in the new location. Sock advancers are a dime a dozen, so if you want to get one, modify/ try your not out of pocket much.

xjs36uk,
Thanks for you input.
One of the Products I've Looked at is from APE. Is is an adjustable/ slotted advancer. Looks like the high quality you expect from APE, but I've also looked into some Programmable boxes. All just Info gathering at this point. I also found where  removing .032" from the right side of the slot on the advancer will show as +4 when tightened in the new location. Sock advancers are a dime a dozen, so if you want to get one, modify/ try your not out of pocket much.

motorhead, do what you want, that's how we learn, but having BTDT, I can say if you're looking for power either pony up for a dyna with different curves, or look / spend your money elsewhere. I personally haven't done the dyna, so there may not be much to gain there, either. Keep in mind that the later ignitions incorporate ktric or other methods to effectively advance timing based on throttle position, so they can pump in timing under light throttle that will help fuel economy, then instantly drop back to the base timing by rpm for more power when the throttle is cranked on. This is a much better approach than a static ign advance. I'm not saying that some advance may not help at high rpm, I just haven't seen it. BTW, if you're going to get serious, get to know a good dyno operator, you're going to need him... Steve

Steve in Sunny Fla,
I don't think I need to get to carried away. Big bucks on this bike, its not nice enough for starters. A few degrees either way with the timing, that's easy. Dyno, well that would be nice, no access at the moment. But I know where in the area to go if needed. Probably be the Butt Dyno for now.
 The old KZ was easier with its springs and weights for a change in the curve. But then there is maintenance on that also.

The butt dyno isn't going to work perfectly in this scenario. Reason being that it will feel sharper to light throttle at low rpm, but that doesn't mean it's best under heavier accelleration all the way through the rpm's. The light throttle response increase would be just like adding the ktric, or in old-school automotive tech, the vacuum advance. I know you know that to much advance is a bad thing. Over on zrxoa, there's multitudes of dyno runs on the zrx's that show the bikes lost top end HP with advanced plates. I try to deal in real world increases, not placebo effects, so I personally have not run advanced plates once I determined that it wasn't helping anything. JMO,  Steve

Steve in Sunny Fla,
Well you see the loss of Top End isn't a worry. I  don't want a bike that revs out and screams. These Bikes seem to run good in the lower RPM range as designed. I would just like to see an Increase in Fuel Mileage more than any other thing. But that said, a power gain in the low/Mid range would also be OK. The old Air Cooled KZ Stock curve is from 10-45 degrees. This you probably already know. I shortened the total on it, to 36 as that motor will see 8500 R's, But left the Initial at 10. The old KZ has about the same HP rating as the C10, but more pull in the Top. Still it is only a Fun occasional high pull. Mostly gets shifted at 5K or less, and run at 4K on the highway. I can get 50mpg on the old KZ, freeway and 65mph.
 Most of my riding is a quite an elevation, with a loss in cylinder pressure. So an increase in overall advance, at this altitude should be fine., and help the C10. First to get some mileage documentation. Then I might turn it up a couple and recheck.

 By the way your input IS appreciated, as you seem to be the fellow with the Tuning Lab.

Save up and get Steve's 2 Minute Mod Jet Kit and Exhaust Sprocket for $150. You'll be glad you did.

Save up and get Steve's 2 Minute Mod Jet Kit and Exhaust Sprocket for $150. You'll be glad you did.

For that $150, you'll get a lot of bang for the buck. The cam sprocket builds up cylinder pressures quite nicely in the low and mid range, the jet kit makes normal throttle openings feel more spirited, without being too abrupt. You can really feel the difference from a stock bike. Nice low buck way to get real improvement on both the butt and regular dyno. My cams were getting to look kinda nasty at about 140k miles, so I put in one of the initial sets of SiSF's torque cams. These build even more cyl pressure and made the bike "come alive" in normal part throttle acceleration. More $$, better results. (but not that much more)

On topic. I also had ground that plate for the advance, I put it back to stock. I get about 39 mpg commuting on two lane road for 12 miles, two traffic lights, about 7-8 corners, speed limit 45-55, which I routinely exceed, driven in a more spirited(sometimes much more) manner on the way home in daylight, more conservative in the morning darkness. I'll also add that there is a lot of junk hanging on my bike, two sets of driving lights(I like to see in the dark ) tip over bars. and a big old 26" Cee Bailey shield, all contributing to extra drag.  Running a 110/80zr18 PR3 radial up front, 160/80/16 Pilot GT bias in the rear. Hope this all helps.

Disclaimer: I've known SiSF personally for about 5 years. A decent human being that knows his stuff. We are hooking up Saturday morning to go here: 

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4834.0

BTW Motor Head, welcome to this place. A new person with a handle like that is a good thing. The more people thinking about stuff, the more stuff gets better. Hope to meet up with you some day.

SteveJ,
 That's some good info there. I assume that as you had put you Ignition timing back to stock, that you had issues? Your place is down low near Sea Level?
 Loss of cylinder pressure is a problem at this altitude. It has a history of Turbo Charging, still popular, but not like years ago. Modern engines of course make much more power than the older stuff.
 When I was in the Valve adjustment part of the Initial maintenance, I took note of the cam chain layout. Unlike my KZ the ZG has a much easier set up to Degree the cams. The KZ has a slipper block for the top chain guide, in the valve cover, once the valve cover is removed, then no chain tension etc. A tool to mimic the valve cover needs to be installed.
 More cylinder pressure is a good thing, especially up here.  If I reset the ZG cam timing, and want to re-jet, etc, I have that capability.  But unlike my younger years when Gas was cheap, I don't want to drop the mileage, I want to increase it, if possible.
 Performance of the ZG is already decent, while more, as a rule is always fun, where do you stop?
 This particular bike is not going to be a Crotch Rocket bike, as long as I own it.

 Actually I've found a Programmable Box at what I consider a very reasonable price. Which I may pursue. About $100 + Freight.

 Programmable High Energy Ignition System
 The system can be used simply to intercept and modify the factory ignition timing or turned into a stand alone ignition system with remapped timing, electronic coil control and anti-knock sensing. The unit will trigger from a range of sources including points, Hall effect sensors, optical sensors, or the 5 volt signal from the car's ECU. Timing can be mapped against engine load and RPM and adjusted in step as small as 0.5°.
Features:
> Timing retard & advance over a wide range
> Suitable for single coil systems
> Dwell adjustment
> Single or dual mapping ranges
> Two de-bounce settings
> Max & min RPM adjustment
> Suits 1 to 12 cylinder four stroke engines and 1 to 6 cylinder two stroke engines
> Optional knock sensing & correction



 But first the Stats have to be gathered as to what mileage I'm getting now. That might take quite a while with winter coming.
 Your Smackdown at the shack sounds like fun, but I can't make that. I've never even been to that part of the USA.

Motor, I hesitate to tell you what works best, but the last 3 pages tried.

I had a V/H 5' advance and SISF talked me out of it WHEN I installed his exhaust cam instead. I can tell you Connie went from mildly zippy to noticably more TORQUEY!!!  This $40 is the best bang for your buck, then the jet kit if you want more input to how you are running (@ altitude).

Don't spend all your time (and $$$) guessing what might work, listen to those that have MADE it work....and enjoy the ride!

 More cylinder pressure is a good thing, especially up here.  If I reset the ZG cam timing, and want to re-jet, etc, I have that capability.  But unlike my younger years when Gas was cheap, I don't want to drop the mileage, I want to increase it, if possible.

1) why would re-jetting cause in loss of fuel economy if it's properly engineered? I think most guys running my kits get better economy, particularly at elevation

2) what altitude are you at? I can see your point on increasing the timing at high altitude, but I think getting the jetting done first is the more appropriate way to go. As you have stock jetting, the richness will cover up some overly advanced timing and suppress detonation. Get the jetting right then try to dial in some timing, that would be my approach. you may find the economy increases and performance you're looking for. Stock connies are jetted rich at sea level, so you know what happens at altitude... Steve

 Yes the Jetting is being addressed. Comes off choke pretty quick even at 40F. 6200" is the house, and all the fun happens up hill from here, to 10K. So 7500+ mostly.

Yes the Jetting is being addressed. Comes off choke pretty quick even at 40F. 6200" is the house, and all the fun happens up hill from here, to 10K. So 7500+ mostly.

I'm interested too.  I live at 5000' but the good roads by my house go up to 7,000'.  I barely had to use the choke on my A8L even when I lived at 1100'.

My current jetting is stock Kalifornia--135 main, 38 pilot.  FM says I can go down to 122/35.  Bike will also be deKalifornicated and the CA emissions equipment either thrown in the trash where it belongs or given away for shipping cost.

AZBiker,
 I posted some info in your thread on Hi-Altitude Jetting.
 Once I get some more miles on this bike, which is hard in the weather coming, I'll post up some info. Maybe good, or maybe not, but I'll add changes I make.

MH you sound pretty knowledgable. Your inputs ino the discussions will be interesting.

I've looked into the advance plate. Was always told that it was not worthwhile. Your box sounds interesting!

Now, getting off the original subject again,,,,,,,,,,

I'm a flatlander. (Houston) Made 2 trips to Colorado with my 86. The first trip it was waay down on power. Second trip I (guessed on jett sizes)  and leaned out the Jetting. It made a big difference. Plus my mileage was the best I  had ever gotten.
BUT, when I returned home it was BAAAD!  Had to rejett richer.

Bottom line, be careful that you don't go too lean if you plan to ride other area's.

NOTE: My lean jetting "might" have worked at home if I had known about Steves original 2 min mod.
BUT NO ONE ever considered restricting the intake until he came up with the idea....
(you might be able to jett lean for Hi Altitude and add restricter when you go down to the flatlands....)

Ride safe, Ted

connie_rider,
Yes like a lot of things the Jetting for a certain situation, then it changing, will put you well out of those Tuned parameters.
There are Altitude Compensators on Many Old Carburetor Cars, Snow Mobiles etc.  This a possibility, but I have not tried this on this bike/ CVK carb. Like you say, if you set it for say 7K' and go down hill, probably 2K and below, you will be to lean. A quick change main jet plug in the Float bowl, and an Adjustable Needle are two things to consider.

You mentioned a High Altitude Jetting discussion. Should we move this to that discussion? If so, just say so?

Until then. My guess is that you will have to find jetting that is the best for both worlds. I clearly jetted too lean when I did mine. Plus rejetting is a heck of a lot of work to do if you change altitudes a lot.
Soo,,,, my thought was (you might be able to jett lean for Hi Altitude and add restricter when you go down to the flatlands....)

Is this a viable solution?
 By the way, Steve join in with your thoughts.
    Have you already built a 2 min kit for altitude and do you recommend changing restriction if you use that kit at lower altuitudes?

Ride safe, Ted

connie_rider,
 The fellow who is AZBiker has a High Altitude thread. Maybe this could go there? he would maybe benefit from some of the input from everyone. I made 1 post there already.