How do I keep it from Hydro-ing again?

[salnap]

so the tubes come out of the carbs where? where's the hose attach point? must be a vent hose or tube being used or am I way off?

[salnap]

top set stock? second modded?

[Brad Baerwald]

well I've haven't had mine done yet so I'm only guessing but my whole point last time was that "gravity" is your friend  (when talking about these overflow tubes)  so I would assume they exit somewhere out the bottom (below where they "end" inside the float bowl  and BTW the carbs already have a "vent" for the float bowls those are what those "T" conectors between Carb's 1 and 2    and then again between 3 and 4.  The hoses are typically the clear tubes that go nowhere after they come off the carbs.  The Cali models do run those vents to something tho (I'm not sure)

So the simple answer is (and I'm guessing) the vent tubes are inserted into the bottom of the float bowls and go up into the float cavity to that magical hieght (I was talking about) that same tube exit's out the bottom where you attach a drain line (and make sure that line goes down.  so the offending gasoline can drain before it reaches the height that would again let gas go into the engine

[Brad Baerwald]

hmmm actually looks to me that both might have overflows?  but the top pic isn't C10 carbs anyway the bottom one is and I see hoses attached to the bottom of the float bowls (and that isn't stock) to my knowldge)

[Thud300]

Sounds like a good explanation to me. The tube height would be a critical element.

[Brad Baerwald]

I seen guys (here) talking about the fact that the "Kawasaki Gods" never put overflow tubes in the C10's Carbs YET made other bikes that (used the same carbs?) and always had overflow tubes... I think most bikes do (the bikes that have carbs of course)   and it's crazy that they never saw fit to do this?! because the C10 OBVIOUSLY "Hydro's"   Frankly I've never heard of "hydro-ing", till it happened to me!!  and I was aware I was having fuel control issues...YIKES!!

[salnap]

well I've haven't had mine done yet so I'm only guessing but my whole point last time was that "gravity" is your friend  (when talking about these overflow tubes)  so I would assume they exit somewhere out the bottom (below where they "end" inside the float bowl  and BTW the carbs already have a "vent" for the float bowls those are what those "T" conectors between Carb's 1 and 2    and then again between 3 and 4.  The hoses are typically the clear tubes that go nowhere after they come off the carbs.  The Cali models do run those vents to something tho (I'm not sure)

So the simple answer is (and I'm guessing) the vent tubes are inserted into the bottom of the float bowls and go up into the float cavity to that magical hieght (I was talking about) that same tube exit's out the bottom where you attach a drain line (and make sure that line goes down.  so the offending gasoline can drain before it reaches the height that would again let gas go into the engine

ok, so tubes go where you'd drain your carb bowls from? hole drilled through bottom of carb bowl? i'm picturing  a toilet tank. tube say 1.5" or whatever, fuel fills up to your magical height, overflows into tubes? then out where the bowl drain screw is? am I even close?

none of the other carbureted bikes ive owned had tubes like that in the bowls.

[Brad Baerwald]

yeah something like that... im not shure if the "float bowl drain screws"  get messed with  (I assume not so you can still use the drains??) and I like your "toilet tank" analogy.  I think we're communicating here but yes a new hole the tube would go into.

[jworth]

What I did was to collect all of the drains via tubing to a manifold then to a single drain line.  On mine, this drain tube exits under the carbs on the left side, makes a little turn under the oil fill cap, then up over and back down behind the trans.  In the little low spot I have a few drops of heavy oil.  See that gas that sits in your carbs evaporates.  You can always prime to fill them back up of course.  But the drops of oil in there make it a little harder for all of the fuel in the carbs to evaporate, yet still allow gas to exit in the event of a petcock, float needle failure.  The carbs are otherwise vented to the atmosphere I realize so this is not a perfect system, but it does give me that warm fuzzy feeling as if I've actually done something.

[Daytona_Mike]

i also ordered the manual Petcock... but NOT because I nolonger trust the OEM one... but because the manual one allows me too "un-stick" a float valve AS I drive down the road!!

Yes you can unstick float valve(s) with OEM. I have done it a few times. Just open the throttle wide open. You dont have to rev out  the engine  or go past the speed limit (much)and it works ..
and yes the drain screws  still work as they always have
By the way,good job on the summary... you nailed it

[salnap]

I seen guys (here) talking about the fact that the "Kawasaki Gods" never put overflow tubes in the C10's Carbs YET made other bikes that (used the same carbs?) and always had overflow tubes... I think most bikes do (the bikes that have carbs of course)   and it's crazy that they never saw fit to do this?! because the C10 OBVIOUSLY "Hydro's"   Frankly I've never heard of "hydro-ing", till it happened to me!!  and I was aware I was having fuel control issues...YIKES!!

I keep reading this post. by Kawasaki gods you mean the designers? engineers? the Kawasakis I have/had didn't have overflow tubes,and had vacuum petocks. neither did the Hondas or suzukis, and the one Yamaha.

 I'd be willing to bet they didn't use overflow tubes due to liability of bikes catching fire, or garages catching fire.
you know how lawyers think. I'm sure they figured the average amount of claims they'd have to pay out.

the leaky petcock I experienced was only dripping. I didn't do a study on how long it would take to fill a cup, or coffee can. I replaced it with an OEM vacuum petcock. they seem to last a good 10 years.

there wasn't much talk about hydrolock on the GPz board. or overflow tubes. or on the ZRX board either. interesting why its such a
common problem to the ZG1000

[MAN OF BLUES]

I keep reading this post. by Kawasaki gods you mean the designers? engineers? the Kawasakis I have/had didn't have overflow tubes,and had vacuum petocks. neither did the Hondas or suzukis, and the one Yamaha.

 I'd be willing to bet they didn't use overflow tubes due to liability of bikes catching fire, or garages catching fire.
you know how lawyers think. I'm sure they figured the average amount of claims they'd have to pay out.

the leaky petcock I experienced was only dripping. I didn't do a study on how long it would take to fill a cup, or coffee can. I replaced it with an OEM vacuum petcock. they seem to last a good 10 years.

there wasn't much talk about hydrolock on the GPz board. or overflow tubes. or on the ZRX board either. interesting why its such a
common problem to the ZG1000

ahhh the raveges of youth, the differences between Kehein and Mikuni carbs, going back into time, created and needed certain parameters, which the carb designers made... the bike designers didn't do the carbs... they bought them....and installed them.

wayyyy back in time, because I do not know your age, I will say Mikuni carbs were the major player. they had internal overflow tubes in the float bowls... and almost all of them that I can recall, had steel float needles, sitting on brass inserts, that controlled fuel flow... and they actually worked... oh, at that time, all petcocks were manual...yeah, at times there would be a leaker, but when it leaked, it drained. on the ground.

the beginning of the Kehein CV carbs was exponentially superior, but then, it was an infant at the time... originally, those float needles were polished metal also, but rapidly (first year) changed to a rubber/polymer tip...
stuff happened.
fuel changed, bikes sat in places for years, people got cheap, service got expensive, and all in all, the scenario and outcome rolls downhill to today.

my experience with Mikuni carbs, on all my old bikes, was the intake tract ALWAYS ran uphill... slightly, but still uphill. it was due to the tall tower required to contain the barrel slide, and the throttle cable and adjustments for same... when the Kehein's appeared, they were shorter, and the links were relocated, thus, they lifted the carbs up, and in dead space, under the tank, and aimed the throats downwards... mm mm bad choice, because people tend to pour strange snake oil additives I.e.seafoam, and Berrymans B12, into the gas, and let it sit in carbs... degrading the rubber/polymer tips on the float needles..

I digress, but take my word, there is a history of progression, and also mistakes made by "OEM" suppliers, such as Kehein..
we work around it. we adapt.


gpz and zrx carbs do differ, so looking for the answer there is moot.... besides, both those bikes have a 6 month ife expectancy with the squidies.. so... they never see the 30 year old results...

[salnap]

I digress, but take my word, there is a history of progression, and also mistakes made by "OEM" suppliers, such as Kehein..
we work around it. we adapt.


gpz and zrx carbs do differ, so looking for the answer there is moot.... besides, both those bikes have a 6 month ife expectancy with the squidies.. so... they never see the 30 year old results...

Interesting history. Informative.
 I'm no spring chicken, but I don't go back to the beginning of carb design.

I've cracked open a few, never saw the infamous tubes.

The 81 GPz I owned about 5-7 years ago. Don't know how many squids owned it before me. Not many squids into GPz
of that vintage. When Ninjas first came about they phased out GPz's.
 The ZRX is definitely not a squid type bike.  Its considered a 'standard' - meaning old school type bike. It's a tribute to the GPz and Eddie Lawson
Most of the owners are 40s-70.
Squids are into the Gixxers and Ninjas and Busas.

The ZRX uses Keihin cv carbs. The petcock only lasts 10 years or so. Float needles have a shelf life too. Most guys on that forum either do their own work or send carbs out to their  'guru'. Very knowledgeable guy. Doesn't install tubes.

I think the main difference with ZG & ZRX is starter gear, zg will try to start where zrx won't when cyl full, not so much the carbs.

I'd still worry about spilled fuel. Manual petcock sounds a little safer.

just all new info for me. Trying to understand.

[Cholla]

Hmm...Keihin carbs...made by Honda...

[VirginiaJim]

Interesting conversation...C14 doesn't have that problem and I'm totally glad about that.  When I owned a C10, I think my petcock started leaking and I replaced it with the OEM.  Never had any more issues with it, but then I only owned one for about 6 years.  Way before that I had a Silver Wing with a manual petcock, which I was always forgetting to turn on or off.  I can't do manual, don't have the memory for it.  FI rules, my friends.  Good luck.

[salnap]

Yeah FI does rule. Carbs must be way cheaper or all bikes would be injected.

[Stasch]

ahhh the raveges of youth, the differences between Kehein and Mikuni carbs, going back into time, created and needed certain parameters, which the carb designers made... the bike designers didn't do the carbs... they bought them....and installed them.

wayyyy back in time, because I do not know your age, I will say Mikuni carbs were the major player. they had internal overflow tubes in the float bowls... and almost all of them that I can recall, had steel float needles, sitting on brass inserts, that controlled fuel flow... and they actually worked... oh, at that time, all petcocks were manual...yeah, at times there would be a leaker, but when it leaked, it drained. on the ground.

the beginning of the Kehein CV carbs was exponentially superior, but then, it was an infant at the time... originally, those float needles were polished metal also, but rapidly (first year) changed to a rubber/polymer tip...
stuff happened.
fuel changed, bikes sat in places for years, people got cheap, service got expensive, and all in all, the scenario and outcome rolls downhill to today.

my experience with Mikuni carbs, on all my old bikes, was the intake tract ALWAYS ran uphill... slightly, but still uphill. it was due to the tall tower required to contain the barrel slide, and the throttle cable and adjustments for same... when the Kehein's appeared, they were shorter, and the links were relocated, thus, they lifted the carbs up, and in dead space, under the tank, and aimed the throats downwards... mm mm bad choice, because people tend to pour strange snake oil additives I.e.seafoam, and Berrymans B12, into the gas, and let it sit in carbs... degrading the rubber/polymer tips on the float needles..

I digress, but take my word, there is a history of progression, and also mistakes made by "OEM" suppliers, such as Kehein..
we work around it. we adapt.


gpz and zrx carbs do differ, so looking for the answer there is moot.... besides, both those bikes have a 6 month ife expectancy with the squidies.. so... they never see the 30 year old results...

What's really interesting is the Voyager XII had production years right along side the C10 - 1986 - 2003 with Keihen carbs that had OEM overflow tubes. 

XII float bowls are a direct swap to the C10, an option if someone just wants overflow tubes.

So Keihen was making identical float bowls, for the same company, some with and some without overflow tubes. 

Perhaps different design / control teams between C10 and XII leading to difference in carb bowl setup for concurrent years?

[stevewfl]

Yeah FI does rule. Carbs must be way cheaper or all bikes would be injected.

Not exactly true, fuel injection technology came long after carbs.

[salnap]

Not exactly true, fuel injection technology came long after carbs.

Yes, I realize FI came much later, but surely by the mid 80 ' s most bikes could have been built with FI instead of carbs. I'm willing to bet it was cost related.

And I'm guessing overflow tubes lead to claims being paid out. We're living in a very litigious society.  The EPA excuse makes a good cover story for manufacturers

[tweeter55]

 We're living in a very litigious society. 

New word for the day...litigious