New Pads in front, Brake Lever travel seems excessive.

[jim_de_hunter]

I'm too lazy to search and you guys like to answer tech questions anyway.

I changed the pads on the front of the Blue Monster and now the brake lever has more travel than it did before I changed them.  It firms up about 3/4" from the grip, it still stops the Monster, the lever won't pump up like there is air in it or a leak, and if I squeeze as tight as I can, I can touch the grip with the lever.

Any ideas?

[Motor Head]

 Is this just after the change? If so it will take a bit for the Pads to seat into the wear pattern on your rotors. How's the rotor surfaces? A bit of wear? Try several firm stops from around 50 mph. Several, firm stops, let it cool a bit and several more. Should seat the pads.
 Oh and I've got to ask, did you open the bleeder valve when you pushed in the pistons? Or did you let all the old junk go back to the Master cylinder? Replacing with Dot 4 when replacing pads, that should be an Always.
 Then did you lubricate the slides, tha'ts where the bolts hold the calipers to the bracket.

[T Cro ®]

Did you bleed or flush the brake fluid? Perhaps you left behind an air bubble or two..... Did you clean the pistons of grunge before you pushed them back into their bore? You may have forced grime into the system at the piston seal and thus sucked up some air there too. Calipers not floating freely on their pins?

[jim_de_hunter]

Okay...

When I changed the pads I simply pushed the pistons back with a c-clamp and pushed the brake fluid back into the resevior and removed the excess with a syringe.  That's when the travel changed.

Because of what T Cro and Motor Head replied, I just finished a rebuild of the two calipers and replaced the fluid.  I've been bleeding the system for 3 days at both bleeder screws and the 5 banjo bolts, tying the brake lever with a bungee cord at night, and removed the resevior and lever from the handle to removed trapped air bubbles.

I still have the same problem.  The lever comes back further than before the pad change and, although it will get a little firmer with cycling (I think due to rubber brake lines), the travel doesn't change. 

I haven't tried seating the pads yet.

I'm I on the right track?

[Cholla]

Do not loosen banjo bolts. You are introducing air into the system.

[rcannon409]

What pads did you use for the new ones?  If you had a sintered metal pad and changed to an orgainc, that softer feel may be normal.

[jim_de_hunter]

Boy oh boy...  I don't know which pads I bought.  I replaced the stock pads.  I do know that I waited too long and that there was no pad left.  I was metal plate to disc. 

[SteveJ.]

Boy oh boy...  I don't know which pads I bought.  I replaced the stock pads.  I do know that I waited too long and that there was no pad left.  I was metal plate to disc.

Ruht roh.

[rcannon409]

Obviously, check on the things everyone else mentioned as there could be some real safety issues....but, I noticed the softness of some of the EBC branded organic pads as well as the Galfer brand. Both of these pads had a very dark friction surface instead of the shiny metal-looking stock pads.  The dark, organic pads actually worked ok, but had a softness at the lever.  The spongy feel left when I changed back to the metallic pads.

[timsatx]

The pad material should not change the way the levers are pulled back, only the way the bike stops. It still sounds like there may be air in the system. Like was mentioned, don't loosen the banjos, that only introduces air into the system. What method are you using to bleed the system?

[jim_de_hunter]

Forgive me.  But how is bleeding at the banjos by pressurizing the system by pumping the lever until the air is compressed and releasing some fluid (and, hopefully, the trapped air) any different than bleeding at the bleeder screw by pressurizing the system by pumping the lever until the air is compressed and releasing some fluid (and, hopefully, the trapped air)?  Mr. Pascal would like to know.

[jim_de_hunter]

Ya know???  I'm not getting any air at all out of this thing when I bleed.  You don't suppose that I could have somehow messed up the Master Cylinder when I pushed the fluid back through the system with the C-clamp?

[Cybercraig]

Not likely, but at this point it could be a worn master.

[rcannon409]

The pad material should not change the way the levers are pulled back, only the way the bike stops. It still sounds like there may be air in the system. Like was mentioned, don't loosen the banjos, that only introduces air into the system. What method are you using to bleed the system?

I dont think I said this correctly, so I'll try again.  The organic pads are  soft compared to a good, metallic pad.  Softness may not be the correct word since both are hard, but compared to each other. . That softness translates to a very spongy feeling brake lever at the point where the pads contacts the rotor. You'll get power, but the feel is vague. VERY much like having air in the lines.  You do adjust to the feeling, but it never feels quite right. 

Here is an example of a soft, spongy feeling pad. These are the worst brake pads I ever used.  No feel, soft, and dusty as can be.  http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/3/14/137/10070/ITEM/EBC-Organic-Front-Brake-Pads.aspx They did polish up the rotor nicely, though.

When switched to this pad:  http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/3/14/137/11048/ITEM/EBC-Double-H-Sintered-Brake-Pads.aspx
The same brake system was firm, strong, and had a great feel.  The rotor ended up not looking as pretty, but the feel was night and day better.

The brake system was not bled between pad changes since all of the components were new and carefully bled when assembled.

A worn master is usually easy to diagnose and fix. The rebuild kits are not that expensive. To test, pull the lever in and hold it..applying the brakes.  On a good system, the lever will pretty much stop. A worn master cylinder will let the lever continue to creep towards the grip.

[Daytona_Mike]

No way will different type pads change the travel. I have run HH, Kevlar and stock and always had  the same solid feel with the same amount of travel . Of course anything other than HH and I have to squeeze a whole lot more to stop.
Your issue is more likely having to do with the slides that the caliper moves on to try and self center itself. They get dirty and bind and the pads push more on one side o f the rotor so when you let go of the lever  the rotor will will act like a spring and push back   causing a bigger gap and  excessive travel

[timsatx]

That's what I am saying, it wouldn't affect the travel of the lever, only the feel of the lever and that is only when moving. Sitting still they would feel the same so the pad material isn't the cause of your problem.

I don't like the rebuild until the problem is fixed philosophy, but seeing as you have rebuilt the calipers then maybe the last thing to do would be rebuild the master cylinder. Of course if you do that and the problem still exists then it would almost have to be that you are not getting the air out of the system.

As far as loosening the banjo, if all things work properly and you do it, it might work but I submit it is not an accepted way to bleed. Not to mention you would be getting brake fluid on areas where it probably shouldn't be. But there should be no reason to do it that way anyways.

Without putting hands on it would be hard to diagnose beyond some of the things we have talked about. If everything is sealed up then I would think that there is still air in the system. Otherwise I would think that something is not sealed and air is still getting in to the system.

[Stasch]

Can't say this is your issue for sure, but anytime I've changed pads or lines on the C10, bleeding the system always results in spongy feedback.  This could be why you feel there is too much travel as if there's still air in the system.  There probably still is.

My setup isn't entirely stock as I have a 2 line system from the MC.  This technique is the only thing that's worked for me.

After bleeding out all the old fluid and until no more air bubbles are seen, zip tie that brake lever in its squeezed position overnight or maybe even 24 hours. 

Get it as tight as you can.  You might want to put some cardboard or other protection between the zip tie and your grip so you don't cut into it, especially if you have foam grip.

[jim_de_hunter]

I've been bleeding this thing at the banjo's and the screws and tying the brake lever at night with a bungee.  I removed the master cylinder from handlebar to try to release any trapped air.   A short test and the bike stops just fine but the travel is still nearly reaching, if not touching, the grip.  (You know what just occurred to me as I typed this is that I installed larger grips on it the day I brought it home from the dealer.  There's probably an additional quarter inch on the radius of the grip.)  Today I try mass bombing.  I'm going to run a full pint of brake fluid through the system bleeding only at the screws and then tie it off overnight.  Whatever I get, I get.  I'll let you know.

[AZBiker]

Obviously, check on the things everyone else mentioned as there could be some real safety issues....but, I noticed the softness of some of the EBC branded organic pads as well as the Galfer brand. Both of these pads had a very dark friction surface instead of the shiny metal-looking stock pads.  The dark, organic pads actually worked ok, but had a softness at the lever.  The spongy feel left when I changed back to the metallic pads.

EBC organics ruined my rotor on my 2001 XLH--I'm just glad that I found a brand-new rotor on eBay for $60 (they retail for $120).  Those pads went from new to backing plate in 1500 miles. 

Granted, my bike had a single rotor and sometimes I brake kinda late into the turns but 1500 miles?!?

The EBC HH sintered metals used to last me 5,000 miles each.  EBC makes the stock pads too, I think.

tl;dr--Screw organics, get HH sintered metal.

[pilotsailing]

Trying to remember how the banjo fittings go togeather - the following statement assumes there are copper washers involved -
If you loosened the banjo fittings to bleed , the copper crush washer may not have seated properly, they are ment to be tightened once and left tightened . They can be resoftened by heating until glowing with a propane torch and then cooled.