Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: mitcheman on June 28, 2015, 05:12:55 AM
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He guys,
I hope you can help me. I have got myself a kawa gtr 1000 '93. And it is giving me a hard time.
Can anybody tell me the correct way to setup the carbs. Because out of all the bikes I have/had this one is killing me.
When I bought it the numb 4. carb was missing some parts...main jet and needle. So after replacing that i'd try to set it up. Now sparks 1 2 3 are almost brown and numb 4 is black.
When I give it some throttle round 3 4000 rpm I can hear it stutter and cough with some small backfire bangs. When I turn down it starts to bang very loud couple a time. And only on the right side (carb 3 and 4). I have power enough it rockets to 120 kph no problem. But it stutters and coughs doing it.
I have synced the carbs with my gauges and they are in sync. But it looks to me that 1 2 3 are to lean and number 4 is rich. How do I tackle this?
Thanks in advance!
Gr. Mitcheman
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If all the parts are stock and correct, a rich condition might be caused by a too-high float level.
However, as you say, carb #4 was missing some parts. Maybe it's missing a pilot jet.
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water
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I'm going to check the number 4 carb again. Float etc.
Man of Blues what do you mean with water?
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water in the tank, condensation, etc. drain carb bowels and run some fresh fuel.
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Sounds like high float level making #4 rich.
But DO,,,, Check the spark plug caps and wires.
As you are in Netherlands, look up GCE (Gtr Club of Europe) members that live near you.
They may be able to assist.
NOTE:
A GCE Rally is planned in Breda Netherlands Aug 1-5. (try to be there)
Ride safe, Ted
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He guys,
Well this is the lower side of my carb. Looks complete not?
(http://s3.postimg.org/4crpad0ov/2015_06_29_19_52_20.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4crpad0ov/)
(http://s9.postimg.org/9o1o258yj/2015_06_29_19_52_26.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9o1o258yj/)
How can I adjust the float level? And to what level?
thnx!
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first step
obtain a factory service manual, to see if you assembled the carb correctly.
it will also show correct procedure for setting float.
there are parts not visible internally from just these photos alone.
its sounding to me like the actual slid needle main pilot jet was not installed correctly, it should be installed from below, under that metering jet and emulsion tube (the one with the hex)
compare the bore of all 4 carbs visually, where the slid needle goes thru that projection sticking up from the bottom.
they should all look the same. shoot and post a picture looking in from the rear of the bore.
it is virtually impossible to analyze and explain all this, with so little to go on, not having the assembly in front of us.
the water comment was concerning contaminated fuel, and it causes blockages in the primary low speed idle circuit...
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Well i'm gonna pull the carbs this weekend. And check all the valves.
Does any know the height of the float?
Thnx!
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17mm measured like this
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2805241690015463693LFScUb_ph.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2805241690015463693LFScUb_ph.jpg.html)
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Just an obvervation here, but IMHO, you should not be messing around in your carbruetors if you have to ask how to adjust a float. There are some very expensive, sensitive parts in there that can get ruined by not knowing what you are doing. I.e., each slide is something like $115 $US.
A good choice for knowledge is to join COG and get access to an excellent article from MOB on "Carbs, It Ain't a Diet Thing"(I think I got that right). It goes into amazing detail on the workings and repair of carbbies. Worth the $37US just for that, but he also did a bang up article on the cooling system, among others.
If nothing else, hook up with https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/intake-and-exhaust and ship the carbbies over the pond. This is probably the best, most economical and definitely least stressful way to go.
Thanks, Rich, for doing those when you were more than "just a memba".
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you are more than welcome... it was my labor of love, and my passion to assist.
tough to do via the internet tho, especialy when you can't see the things that may be wrong...
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Mitcheman seems to be pretty knowledgeable.
Synced the carbs etc...
MOB has supplied the info he needs.. Hopefully he doesn't have to spend the big $$ it requires to ship to Steve and back to Europe..(Ain't cheap)
Mitcheman, did you check into GCE Club?
Ride safe, Ted
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Mitcheman seems to be pretty knowledgeable.
Synced the carbs etc...
MOB has supplied the info he needs.. Hopefully he doesn't have to spend the big $$ it requires to ship to Steve and back to Europe..(Ain't cheap)
Mitcheman, did you check into GCE Club?
Ride safe, Ted
http://eu.zggtr.org/ (http://eu.zggtr.org/)
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Thanks Mettler1.
I forgot to attach that.
Ride safe, Ted
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I think you're also missing the main needle jet. Steve
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first step
obtain a factory service manual, to see if you assembled the carb correctly.
it will also show correct procedure for setting float.
there are parts not visible internally from just these photos alone.
its sounding to me like the actual slid needle main pilot jet was not installed correctly, it should be installed from below, under that metering jet and emulsion tube (the one with the hex)
compare the bore of all 4 carbs visually, where the slid needle goes thru that projection sticking up from the bottom.
they should all look the same. shoot and post a picture looking in from the rear of the bore.
it is virtually impossible to analyze and explain all this, with so little to go on, not having the assembly in front of us.
the water comment was concerning contaminated fuel, and it causes blockages in the primary low speed idle circuit...
Steve, you talking about what I noted above?
my thoughts exactly... kind like the same thing Jen did...and the symptoms....
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2848595930015463693UzVkww_fs.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2848595930015463693UzVkww_fs.jpg.html)
item 5 below
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2173305220015463693xAJWwp_fs.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2173305220015463693xAJWwp_fs.jpg.html)
should look like the bore on the left carb in this photo...
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/MAN_OF_BLUES/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2017441540015463693ZmDcLQ_fs.jpg) (http://s1327.photobucket.com/user/MAN_OF_BLUES/media/old%201/COG%20TECHNICAL%20PHOTOS/2017441540015463693ZmDcLQ_fs.jpg.html)
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:popcorn:
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He guys,
Looks like I found he culprit...number 4 had no....needle guide.
Yesterday i've adjusted the valves and swaped float 4 with 1. Still the same issue. Now today I pulled the carbs I looked into them and then I saw it. No needle guide in number 4.
Lucky me I had one spare given to me by the seller. Popped it installed the carbs. Connected my carbtune to snyc her, started her up and no more loud bangs!
So I think we can say issues fixed! And topic closed.
Thnx for the help!
PS. found an easy way to pull the carbs. In a nutshell:
open up airbox, pull the airboots back and you can take the carb out no problem.
to install:
place the carbs connect the cables etc.
cook the airboots in hot water.
and stick them back in via the airbox :-).
they will go in with no problems at all.
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The needle guide is what Steve and MOB thought could be the problem.
PS. found an easy way to pull the carbs. In a nutshell: open up airbox, pull the airboots back and you can take the carb out no problem.
I don't think anyone here has ever mentioned that. Sounds like a good idea to try when I next pull my carbs.
Ride safe, Ted
PS: Are you going to meet us in Breda NL?
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Hi,
In dont think i'm gonna meet you guys in Breda. Bit of a long drive. Thnx for the help anyways :-D
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The needle guide is what Steve and MOB thought could be the problem.
PS. found an easy way to pull the carbs. In a nutshell: open up airbox, pull the airboots back and you can take the carb out no problem.
I don't think anyone here has ever mentioned that. Sounds like a good idea to try when I next pull my carbs.
Ride safe, Ted
PS: Are you going to meet us in Breda NL?
my hands don't fit in the airbox.....
oh, on a lighter note.... isn't it amazing how Steve and I could diagnose perfectly what was wrong, right from the get go..... without even seeing the carbs.....????
and you guys just have to wonder how we know these things..... ??? 8). heheheh I only posted the cause twice before it was "discovered"... :'(
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Trying to be Rodney Dangerfield?
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Trying to be Rodney Dangerfield?
did not get the anolgy, but I'll add...
"my wife jsut told me the car is in the dining room.... I asked wtf, and how did this happen..... her reply was I just took a left turn in the kitchen...."
I can't get no respect.... around here... ya know?
https://youtu.be/Iwu-6GxBHN4
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"PS. found an easy way to pull the carbs. In a nutshell: open up airbox, pull the airboots back and you can take the carb out no problem."
My hands barely fit in the airbox, but that's how I've always done it.
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got my hopes up to soon...
when constant at 3000 4000 rpm she keeps coughing down the number 4 pipe.. sparks 1 2 3 are white ish and number 4 black ish.
carb 4 has been completed with missing parts but still i'm having issues there..
See the pic. spark 1 is white number 4 is black.
what am i doing wrong?
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You may also have a spark issue. pull the wire and take the spark plug connector off to check for corrosion, sometimes you can cut a 1/4 inch off the wire so that it has clean copper. Pull the wire off the coil and check the resistance of the wire. Should be around 5k ohms I believe with the connector on.
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Well I checked the leads, spark caps and plugs. Number 4 lead was lose in the cap. cut it and rescrewed the cap on. Now I got no problems until 5000. When in neutral and I hit 5000 rpm the reight pipe starts shooting again in the pipe.
Could it be that number is getting not enough fuel?
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Okay little update.
Just switched the coils l to r and r to l. And I replaced the number 4 spark. Bangs down the pipe at 5000 rpm looks solved. Gonna test ride it and gonna come back to you.
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Mitcheman, These guys are awesome! I'm sure that together you guys will get that 4th cylinder work'n right! They helped me...I was convinced I had both cams timed right and they saw in a photo I sent that I was using the wrong timing mark on the intake cam!
I miss NL, I lived there 2 different times in my life. 1st time in Den Hauge and the 2nd time in Den Dolder (if I remember corectly ha ha) My dad worked for NATO the first time I was there (1971-1974) I was at the airbase (1985 -88)
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So I think she's good now.
This is my tune up: https://youtu.be/2nzG1GDHpB8
the drop is from me turning on the radiator fan.
Ps. Don't mind the noise...need a new (after market) exhaust.
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sounds like a GTR is running....woo hooo....
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Yay!