2011 C14 Service Manual Link

[Son of Pappy]

 
Need more butter.

[VirginiaJim]

Need more butter.

You betcha..

[Son of Pappy]

You betcha..

Hey, Sarah joined the non political fray

[B.D.F.]

OK, not tired now and have re-read your post. And I still do not agree with you Clyde. No political leanings in any of my postings so I maintain that if you found some it is because you have projected your opinion of what you think are my opinions (because you do not know my opinions, at least not the ones with a political slant) into my posts as you were reading them.

In summation: stealing = bad. Bad comes in levels or degrees, and stealing an electronic book is pretty low on the list of bad things.

As far as individual freedoms go, I think any rational person would have to agree that most, if not all, personal freedoms will eventually have to be constrained by limits. Of course these limits directly attack individual freedoms but the constraints are necessary in any world with more than one person that I can imagine. To argue otherwise is to take an irrational side IMO and cannot be supported by any reasonable (practical, executable) political stance or attachment.

And finally, can you send me the link to that PDF manual? In all the excitement I forgot to write it down and now it seems to be gone....

Brian

Brian, you know that I like and respect you.  However, as I read and re-read your post, you have, indeed stated a political opinion.  By the mere conceding of the argument that freedoms have been infringed, and that you are pleased with that, you have indicated a position.  Perhaps not a fanatical, wild-eyed positions, but a concession that loss of freedom is inevitable or past correction, and that it is acceptable to go along to get along.  I understand political pragmatism, and would not say that it is always a bad thing.  But it still is a position, and it can often be read clearly, even if it retains plausible deniablity.

For better or worse, I've changed my tactics on these "pdf manual" threads.  It is much easier to let the mods and Mama Kaw handle it from the "legal" side.  If someone really wants to discuss the "moral" side, then it usually doesn't take too long to get the opposite points of view displayed and clarified. 

I let myself get drawn into the political side of the freedom/societal cost discussion, because many who claim to value freedom do not understand just how far they may have drifted from the basic tenets thereof.  As individuals and as nations, we have often traded freedom for security and comfort, to the extent that we find true freedom and responsibility almost foreign and often politically "incorrect" or unpopular.

[Kirby]

Nah, I am ascairt of anything electronical that does not come with a fob.

Kirby

Hey Kirby, the first day of fall isn't till Friday the 23rd. Try curling up with the PDF on the laptop instead.

[lt1]

OK, not tired now and have re-read your post. And I still do not agree with you Clyde. No political leanings in any of my postings so I maintain that if you found some it is because you have projected your opinion of what you think are my opinions (because you do not know my opinions, at least not the ones with a political slant) into my posts as you were reading them.

In summation: stealing = bad. Bad comes in levels or degrees, and stealing an electronic book is pretty low on the list of bad things.

As far as individual freedoms go, I think any rational person would have to agree that most, if not all, personal freedoms will eventually have to be constrained by limits. Of course these limits directly attack individual freedoms but the constraints are necessary in any world with more than one person that I can imagine. To argue otherwise is to take an irrational side IMO and cannot be supported by any reasonable (practical, executable) political stance or attachment.

And finally, can you send me the link to that PDF manual? In all the excitement I forgot to write it down and now it seems to be gone....

Brian

Hi Brian.  Hope the trip went well.  The highlighted parts are your political position. "I am rational, and anyone who disagrees with me is irrational.  My position is so well-thought-out that it is not a political position, it is merely a statement of truth, beauty and reality."

Umm, Okay.  Nice bike you have there.

[B.D.F.]

It went very well, and we had a great time- thanks for asking.

I can understand what you are saying but I did not mean it that way- I believe you are rational (as are most people) and I do believe that all rational people have to come to some common conclusions simply because those conclusions are the only ones available, not because they are my conclusions.

Perhaps we need an example of personal freedoms vs. the common good, without any political bent. How about these:

1) I can build or buy a radio to transmit on any frequency I want but the US gov’t (specifically the FCC) regulates which frequencies I may use and in which ways I may use them. This is clearly an infringement on my personal freedom but it is for the greater good of my community. Would you take the other side and say that I should be able to broadcast on any frequency I want? Perhaps on air traffic control frequencies or emergency services frequencies?

2) I can buy an airplane and fly it whenever I want but the gov't controls (specifically the FAA) some aspects of flight w/in the US- I cannot circle above an airport for example. Would you say that this infringement of freedom is a bad idea? Should we all be able to fly kites over airports should we desire to do this? Or should society impose certain restrictions so that air travel is safer both to the people flying and those on the ground?

3) I like loud pipes on my motorcycle but I am restricted by noise limits in some (most) communities. Should we, as a society, remove all restrictions on an individual's right to make noise as he / she would like to?

As I said, I believe there are rational and necessary reasons why individual rights must be tempered for the greater good. Of course this idea can, and has been, abused and used irrationally. But I am extremely interested in any rational argument for individual freedom without restriction. Besides, others seem to have their popcorn out and we do not want to dissapoint them....

Brian

Hi Brian.  Hope the trip went well.  The highlighted parts are your political position. "I am rational, and anyone who disagrees with me is irrational.  My position is so well-thought-out that it is not a political position, it is merely a statement of truth, beauty and reality."

Umm, Okay.  Nice bike you have there.

[gPink]

4. I like machine guns, edged weapons and high explosives. There are probably rational and necessary reasons why I can't have them.

[B.D.F.]

Ah but you can, at least in the US! It is a right of yours from the Constitution, specifically item #2 in the Bill of Rights. You have to pay a 'transfer tax' of $200 per item but you can own machine guns (or any type of 'machine' firearm) and things like artillery. The edged weapons are generally not a problem although some items are specifically prohibited from certain areas; for example, it is illegal to transport a switch- blade knife interstate unless you only have one arm (really).

Back in the '80's a local gun shop had a Browning M2 for sale- it appeared unfired, came in the original crate, came with an additional crate of support gear (six barrels and a pair of asbestos gloves) as well as a couple of boxes of ammunition. Perfectly legal to buy, possess and transport provided you paid the federal transfer tax. It was originally from a National Guard armory, and became 'legal' during a 1920's firearm amnesty. $8,000. What a lost investment opportunity that was....

As I said, there have been many man hours put into the art of balancing personal freedoms against civil needs and overall, I think we (again the US) has done a very good job of it. Regulating freedom is always a slippery slope but it can be done.

Brian

4. I like machine guns, edged weapons and high explosives. There are probably rational and necessary reasons why I can't have them.

[VirginiaJim]

Well, I think this  has gone about as far as it's going to get.  Everyone has made their point and is happy.  I so love a good discussion.