15K Maintenance (my journal of events)

[B.D.F.]

Well not quite- the hydraulic systems on this bike are a pretty pesky to bleed in my experience. I finally resorted to a powered bleeder after all three systems (both brakes and the clutch) tortured me on a couple of different occasions. The problem is that air 'hides' in the system in corners and small pockets so that while you push clear fluid out of the bleeder the system is still not fully bled.

I am not normally much of a doom- crier and some people say they have had good success manually bleeding the hydraulics on a C-14 but not me. Perhaps I am not the one to give advice?  In any event, the object in bleeding hydraulics is to get 100% of the air out of the system and the way to tell is that the lever (or pedal) should be firm with virtually no movement before the hydraulics engage. If the system feels 'soft' or you can continue to squeeze the lever after the brakes engage, there is still air in the system.

One other thing- if you are just flushing the system of the old fluid, there is no reason to introduce any air into the system at all. That makes it pretty easy to do and unlikely it will be difficult. But that is not really bleeding the system, just flushing it. So I would suggest to anyone trying to flush any of the systems on a C-14 NOT to let ANY air get into the master cylinder at any time. If you are doing something like changing brake lines then of course the system must be bled as it will definitely have air in it.

I finally bought a MityVac air- powered bleeding system. It makes an ugly job easy and while expensive, it was worth it to me (about $120 as I remember). As a side bonus, it makes it easy to change oil in small engines because it will suck the old oil out of the filler instead of pulling the plug and having the oil coat the machine and the garage.

Brian

now I got it! So when I refill, I can be pretty confident to not have any air in there once the fluid comes out of the bleeder at the speed bleeder.  correct?  I'll have one of those bags from Murph attached to the end of the bleeder.

[roadie]

I like the idea of a tool. I'll get lots of use out of it. Is this it?

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200007974_200007974

[B.D.F.]

That is not the one I have but it also looks like a nice rig and you would not need an air compressor to use it. It looks like it will do all the jobs the one I use will do and maybe more. ??

The one I use is a MityVac 6830 and looks like this: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SP101A10556S2834531101P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=18-105312774-2

Just over $100 or so if you shop around. Note that you need a source of compressed air to use this bleeder though.

Brian

I like the idea of a tool. I'll get lots of use out of it. Is this it?

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200007974_200007974

[roadie]

THanks Brian, so using this unit makes mince meat out of getting the air out of your system?  I'll buy. 

[roadie]

25 Dec:  Merry Christmas!  Today I installed the rear Galfer break line, refilled rear brake fluid, and bled air out of system .  Its nice and tight now when engaging the rear break, so confident I got all air out.  I also refilled the clutch with brake fluid.  Bleeding it was a drawn out system, but got it pretty tight also.  I then installed new oil and dust seals in my front calipers.  Now I am quite confident I didn't lose it, but is it remotely possible my right caliper would have stayed airtight, even if for a while, missing an O-ring?  It would appear one half of one of the calipers was missing the O-ring that lays against the other on the opposite caliper half, creating the channel through which the brake fluid flows.  So damnit, need another part.  Just when I thought I was gonna get it done today. :-( 

[B.D.F.]

Not exactly sure what you mean but there is only one O-ring between each caliper set. In other words, the O-ring will be stuck to one caliper half and the other half will have a counter bored hole that <could> hold an O-ring. The one O-ring seals both halves together so one per caliper side is all there is (two O-rings altogether on the front of the bike).

Brian

25 Dec:  Merry Christmas!  Today I installed the rear Galfer break line, refilled rear brake fluid, and bled air out of system .  Its nice and tight now when engaging the rear break, so confident I got all air out.  I also refilled the clutch with brake fluid.  Bleeding it was a drawn out system, but got it pretty tight also.  I then installed new oil and dust seals in my front calipers.  Now I am quite confident I didn't lose it, but is it remotely possible my right caliper would have stayed airtight, even if for a while, missing an O-ring?  It would appear one half of one of the calipers was missing the O-ring that lays against the other on the opposite caliper half, creating the channel through which the brake fluid flows.  So damnit, need another part.  Just when I thought I was gonna get it done today. :-(

[roadie]

i see...what i thought was another o-ring is merely the counter-bored hole which kinda looks like it has an o-ring in it as well.  Bottomline, when I cracked open one of the calipers this o-ring was not there.  I didn't know what I was truly looking at until I opened the other.  Having said all that, it is POSSIBLE it popped out and I didn't know it, but I just combed my garage and it ain't showin up.  So just wondering if it was even remotely possible that it would have had a seal without that o-ring there to begin with....Eitherway, I'm halted again until I get one.

[C14_Rider]

So just wondering if it was even remotely possible that it would have had a seal without that o-ring there to begin with....

I doubt that it's even remotely possible that there was no o-ring there.  The brake system develops such high pressures that without an o-ring, surely fluid would have at least wept from the joint, causing noticible dirt buildup and probably wetting the pads, maybe dripping on the wheel.  It's surely hiding somewhere, they can roll a long way (DAMHIK).

[B.D.F.]

There is one O-ring between a pair of front brake caliper halves on a C-14. It goes into a well, or counterbore, machined into the surface where the two caliper faces mate. It is part number 92049-1448, and there is one for each caliper on the bike; two up front and one in the back for a total of three O-rings between each caliper set.

There really had to be an O-ring between each caliper set or the caliper halves would have leaked brake fluid. Even if it did not leak enough to interfere with brake function, it would have made the caliper and probably the brake pads wet with brake fluid.

But disappearing parts is one small step down the long road to a Haroldo repair! Soon after, bigger and more important parts will begin to disappear. Then things will catch on fire. Finally, your pet dogs will steal parts of the bike while you have it dissembled and are not watching....  Ah, the good old days. Sorry Will, Haroldo has an aura around him and it really cannot be explained by others, it must be experienced.... sort of like a bath that at first seems too hot but soon becomes just right. 

Brian

i see...what i thought was another o-ring is merely the counter-bored hole which kinda looks like it has an o-ring in it as well.  Bottomline, when I cracked open one of the calipers this o-ring was not there.  I didn't know what I was truly looking at until I opened the other.  Having said all that, it is POSSIBLE it popped out and I didn't know it, but I just combed my garage and it ain't showin up.  So just wondering if it was even remotely possible that it would have had a seal without that o-ring there to begin with....Eitherway, I'm halted again until I get one.

[roadie]

There is one O-ring between a pair of front brake caliper halves on a C-14. It goes into a well, or counterbore, machined into the surface where the two caliper faces mate. It is part number 92049-1448, and there is one for each caliper on the bike; two up front and one in the back for a total of three O-rings between each caliper set.

There really had to be an O-ring between each caliper set or the caliper halves would have leaked brake fluid. Even if it did not leak enough to interfere with brake function, it would have made the caliper and probably the brake pads wet with brake fluid.

But disappearing parts is one small step down the long road to a Haroldo repair! Soon after, bigger and more important parts will begin to disappear. Then things will catch on fire. Finally, your pet dogs will steal parts of the bike while you have it dissembled and are not watching....  Ah, the good old days. Sorry Will, Haroldo has an aura around him and it really cannot be explained by others, it must be experienced.... sort of like a bath that at first seems too hot but soon becomes just right.  ;D ;D

Brian

Yeah, i musta lost it. Been wrenching on my truck all day. New steering damper, air filter and turbo boots. Then made a bracket to hold my new bypass oil filter and tranny filter,  was cool cuz my buddy had a sandblaster and we cut and angled the piece just right, sandblasted it, and put a caot of primer on. Tomorrow im actually ginna take a day off, go to bike shop and get a new o-ring, and get my damn bike done! That is, if Im allowed to reuse the stock double bango for my front right caliper because galfer didnt send me a new one with my new galfer lines which are now installed minus bolts to calipers.   These i didnt lose like my O-ring! :)

[Tactical_Mik]

You should be able to pick up banjo washers anywhere and reuse your stock bolts.  I have done this every time I have broken the brake lines free with no issues.

[roadie]

5 Jan:  Didn't post earlier, but Since December, I installed the front fork sliders, frame sliders, swing-arm protector, o-ring seal in left caliper, Tech Spec Tank Protectors, and asundry of smaller 15K checks.  Still having problem with air in front brakes, work well enough but still a bubble in there somewhere.  Since I have to get my VA state inspection done, I dropped off at the shop for them to do, and bleed my front lines for me.  Learned enough in this excursion...hit it again (but hell no on bleeding) in 7,500 miles.

Thanks for reading.  The very first thread contains all the periodic updates.

[Caffeinated]

Too cold to be messing with brakes in an unheated garage! Bike looks good all back together.

BTW..what's a swing-arm protector??

[rcannon409]

My local Auto Zone has a package of Banjo washers on the shelf. You end up with several sizes you dont need, but cost is less than two oem ones.

[roadie]

Just a lil knob from gsg moto that mounts on the lower tetra lever. Twisted throttle sells it for dunno about 30 bucks. Yeah when u saw me I was doing stop and goes to make my front ABS engage. I was worried I mighta dorked up putting on the galfer lines, but after thirty successful engages, I'm confident the ABS is functioning fine. Just need that last bit of air outta the system and I'll be good.

[roadie]

Th

You should be able to pick up banjo washers anywhere and reuse your stock bolts.  I have done this every time I have broken the brake lines free with no issues.

They sent me plenty washers, just not a new double bango. I just reused the stock.

Ok, now I'm really done.  Got my bike back over the weekend.  What I thought was air was actually brake grease making the pistons sluggish.  I coated the inside of the cylinder with brake grease which the pistons didn't like.  Once it was cleaned out, bled again, all was well.  Guess my final comments would be "good lawdy miss mawdy."  That was tough work, but damn so much fun.  I can't wait to do it again in 15K (7K is a piece of cake).  I can't say I saved money this time around, as I picked up a bunch of new tools, but I didn't really do it to save money NOW, but in the future.  I can say I learned alot, and am ready for the next go around.  PS:  no left over screws :-)

[556ALPHA]

I am sure the accomplishment gives you a feeling of satisfaction and comfort knowing that the job was done well.  Congrats for having the bravery to tackle these jobs.

[roadie]

I am sure the accomplishment gives you a feeling of satisfaction and comfort knowing that the job was done well.  Congrats for having the bravery to tackle these jobs.

Thanks bro!  still have a lot to learn, but gotta start somewhere.