15K Maintenance (my journal of events)

[B.D.F.]

Clyde (LT1) already answered this with good info. IMO. Just to add to it a bit- it is usually easiest to tighten fasteners correctly by using the right tool; a short 'L' wrench will work best to tighten the cam bearing cap bolts rather than a longer ratchet and socket combination. It is difficult to use tools that are too large (easy boys!) and not put too much pressure on fasteners. Just as an example, I do not think anyone would ever strip something like a final drive drain bolt if he / she used a socket driver to tighten it instead of a wrench or ratchet.

Brian

Kawi shop in Manassas will swap shims with me for free.  Sending my son to pick them up today, schedule permitting.  If not, I'll get them Saturday.  Went through my numbers again.  I think I'm good.  we'll see when I measure again. 

one question though on torque...there are either one or two bolts you just can't get a socket onto...how to torque them.  Is a needle type torque wrench ok to use here?

[roadie]

17 Dec:  finally finished installing new shims, torques of cam holders/covers, and put header back on.  after i got the holders back on i made sure to rotate engine a couple full revolutions to make sure i didn't hear any sounds indicative of the cam being installed wrong.  What should have probably been a two  hour drill took me around four, as I had to open back up and exchange one more shim after everything was said and done.  Remember on cylinder 4 intake?  I didn't have an accurate measurement, so i guessed in my calculations, and i managed to get it in the zone with a 2.25 shim, but it is still at the bottom of the acceptable range.  I don't have anymore smaller shims to satisfy a mid range gap, so let it go.

[roadie]

18 Dec:  TOday I finished buttoning up the engine, put the cam position sensor cover back on.  Had to go buy some high temp sealant before i closed it up.  Also reinstalled stick coils, and associated harness.  Fired her up and looked for leaks...all good.  Boy I tell you once she turned on and sounded nice..I had to do a high five with my self.  I then proceeded to do the throttle body sync and whoop whoop, they were still all spot-on and balanced.   I bled the front brakes, installed new brake pads (the original set got 14,800 miles, and the wear markers were gone.  I also noticed what appeared to be chunks missing from the edges on a couple of the pads.  I cleaned the calipers with brake cleaner.  As i was cleaning the right side (I had both calipers unmounted), the left side cylinder seemed to almost "pop" out and started leaking brake fluid...is that normal?  I pushed it back in cleaned all up, installed the pads and then went on ahead and bled the front brakes.  Oh yeah, I'm quite the noob.  I didn't notice the calipers and master cylinders already had what appeared to be speed bleeder valves.  What is the difference between these OEM valves and the one's Murph sells?  If nothing, I just wasted money buying a set.  My bike has been down so long, I am opting not to install the galfer hoses yet.  Save for another day.  I also drained the coolant and put new coolant (Honda HP).  Managed to get much of the left side fairing stays back in place.

[Jeremy Mitchell]

There should not be any fluid leaking from the piston on your caliper.  Did you inspect the seal for any visible damage? If it is in fact, leaking from around the piston you will likely need a piston rebuild kit or a new caliper. 

[roadie]

There should not be any fluid leaking from the piston on your caliper.  Did you inspect the seal for any visible damage? If it is in fact, leaking from around the piston you will likely need a piston rebuild kit or a new caliper. 

crap.  knew it was too good to be true.  ill disassemble tomorrow after i bleed the entire system again.  i guess document and inspect every part.  where do i get a rebuild kit should i need one?  If the seal is broken, I wonder if i can take to kawi for a fix.

[roadie]

crap.  knew it was too good to be true.  ill disassemble tomorrow after i bleed the entire system again.  i guess document and inspect every part.  where do i get a rebuild kit should i need one?  If the seal is broken, I wonder if i can take to kawi for a fix.

BTW Thanks Jeremy, and everyone who has commented on this thread.  Every day I learn how green I still am, but help on this site is keeping me straight.  It WAS a good feeling to unzip that engine and button her back up, and her her fire back to life after I put it back together.

So brakes tonight when I get home...I will bleed, dismantle both calipers and thoroughly inspect.  I guess I should take the whole damn thing apart and check each piece. About 3 weeks ago I posted a strange noise coming from front brakes...think it could have been a leak in my caliper??  Just to coincidental.  Might as well install the galfers now too.

Throttlebody sync pic:

[roadie]

Just to make sure I got this straight from reading the manual....It appears the brake fluid pushes directly against the cylinder...and the fluid is maintained in the caliper by the fluid seal.  and dust seal keeps the dust out.  So by pumping the brakes, as I was working on the right-hand side, the left hand caliper (which was dangling and pads removed) cylinders closed, and one of them was passed the fluid seal, which would result in brake fluid leaking out from behind the cylinder.  Does this make sense?  It would appear to me that I don't necessarly have a bad seal, but the fluid came out as expected (albeit not the way one would WANT the fluid to drain, as I had a lil mess to clean up).

Just the same, I plan on ordering some new fluid seals and dust seals...is that enough?  Or are there some other parts to the "rebuild" kit.  I was planning on ordering directly from Ron Ayers...make sense or any better ideas?

[gnuse]

Chips along edges of pads are normal. It almost sounds like you allowed the piston to extend out past the seals. They are similar to piston rings. I am always careful to put something between the pads, or if they are removed, the pistons so they don't move out of the bores. Just keep that fluid away from painted surfaces, like wheels, fender and other body work. I salute you for taking on this project. I hope you get to go ride soon and enjoy the results.

[roadie]

thanks Gnuse, i wish i just had time to take off work and get er done.  I'm kinda limited to weekends.  I have my son's moto to get me to work while i get it done, but damn if I don't hurry up, I'll have to spend time doing his maintenance (with him of course), as i am racking up the miles on his.  I bought the fluid seals and dust seals for both front calipers and rear from Ron Ayers...geez makes u wanna brake softer. :-)

[Tactical_Mik]

IF  you break the caliper halves apart I would replace the seals of the fluid passages in the bodies.  That shouldn't be necessary though.  If you find the piston seal(s) to be bad just replace that seal and the dust seal.  They are inexpensive and easy to do.  Just remember not to put the piston back in dry.  Use some clean brake fluid on the seals to help keep the new seals from being damaged when putting the piston in.  Easy as pie. 

[gnuse]

IF  you break the caliper halves apart I would replace the seals of the fluid passages in the bodies.  That shouldn't be necessary though.  If you find the piston seal(s) to be bad just replace that seal and the dust seal.  They are inexpensive and easy to do.  Just remember not to put the piston back in dry.  Use some clean brake fluid on the seals to help keep the new seals from being damaged when putting the piston in.  Easy as pie.

What he said and I would add that you might not want to go looking for work and replace those parts unnecessarily.

[roadie]

What he said and I would add that you might not want to go looking for work and replace those parts unnecessarily.

understand thx!

[B.D.F.]

It sounds like you pushed a piston out a little too far and uncovered the seal in the caliper. Perfectly normal if that is what happened.

New seals and dust seals are all that is usually needed to rebuild the caliper on a motorcycle. As long as the piston is clean and corrosion free, new seals will effectively make the caliper new.

The calipers on a C-14 are really easy to disassemble service and reassemble. You will probably need an external Torx driver that you may not already have to split the calipers but it is an easy tool to find and inexpensive. You might want to buy some caliper (brake) grease so you can lube the seals before reinstalling the pistons- you can use brake fluid for this but brake grease works much better.

Brian

Just to make sure I got this straight from reading the manual....It appears the brake fluid pushes directly against the cylinder...and the fluid is maintained in the caliper by the fluid seal.  and dust seal keeps the dust out.  So by pumping the brakes, as I was working on the right-hand side, the left hand caliper (which was dangling and pads removed) cylinders closed, and one of them was passed the fluid seal, which would result in brake fluid leaking out from behind the cylinder.  Does this make sense?  It would appear to me that I don't necessarly have a bad seal, but the fluid came out as expected (albeit not the way one would WANT the fluid to drain, as I had a lil mess to clean up).

Just the same, I plan on ordering some new fluid seals and dust seals...is that enough?  Or are there some other parts to the "rebuild" kit.  I was planning on ordering directly from Ron Ayers...make sense or any better ideas?

[B.D.F.]

Congrats Will, good to hear that it all worked out for you. And it sounds like you did a great job, especially considering this is your first time doing it.

The OEM bleeder valves are not speed bleeders, they are just ordinarily bleeders that you have to turn with a wrench to open and close them. Speed bleeders have a one- way check valve in them so you can bleed the brakes with the bleeders left open; they will not suck fluid (or air) back in when you release the lever. To the best of my knowledge, no vehicle manufacturer uses speed bleeders as stock equipment.

Brian

18 Dec:  TOday I finished buttoning up the engine, put the cam position sensor cover back on.  Had to go buy some high temp sealant before i closed it up.  Also reinstalled stick coils, and associated harness.  Fired her up and looked for leaks...all good.  Boy I tell you once she turned on and sounded nice..I had to do a high five with my self.  I then proceeded to do the throttle body sync and whoop whoop, they were still all spot-on and balanced.   I bled the front brakes, installed new brake pads (the original set got 14,800 miles, and the wear markers were gone.  I also noticed what appeared to be chunks missing from the edges on a couple of the pads.  I cleaned the calipers with brake cleaner.  As i was cleaning the right side (I had both calipers unmounted), the left side cylinder seemed to almost "pop" out and started leaking brake fluid...is that normal?  I pushed it back in cleaned all up, installed the pads and then went on ahead and bled the front brakes.  Oh yeah, I'm quite the noob.  I didn't notice the calipers and master cylinders already had what appeared to be speed bleeder valves.  What is the difference between these OEM valves and the one's Murph sells?  If nothing, I just wasted money buying a set.  My bike has been down so long, I am opting not to install the galfer hoses yet.  Save for another day.  I also drained the coolant and put new coolant (Honda HP).  Managed to get much of the left side fairing stays back in place.

[roadie]

Thx Brian! I'll get the speed bleeders and Galfers installed then; since I gotta dismantle the calipers anyway.  Will also source the Torx driver (you're right, I don't have), as well as brake grease.  Seals should come before Christmas, I hope!

[roadie]

Congrats Will, good to hear that it all worked out for you. And it sounds like you did a great job, especially considering this is your first time doing it.

The OEM bleeder valves are not speed bleeders, they are just ordinarily bleeders that you have to turn with a wrench to open and close them. Speed bleeders have a one- way check valve in them so you can bleed the brakes with the bleeders left open; they will not suck fluid (or air) back in when you release the lever. To the best of my knowledge, no vehicle manufacturer uses speed bleeders as stock equipment.

Brian

24 Dec:  So bled the front, rear brakes, and clutch.  Also installed the speed bleeders and the front galfer lines.  I'm a little confused though...how do these speed bleeders work??  How to make them bleed?  Don't need to bleed anything right now (already empty).  Is there a special attachment that pushes the check valve down?

[B.D.F.]

A speed bleeder is a one-way device and will only allow air and fluid to exit the system but not enter. So you open a speed bleeder with a wrench as you would a normal bleeder but then just pump the brake lever (or clutch lever) without having to close the bleeder at all. So you open a speed bleeder at the beginning of bleeding and leave it alone until you are all finished and then close it. A regular bleeder would need to be opened and closed on each stroke of the brake lever.

Brian

24 Dec:  So bled the front, rear brakes, and clutch.  Also installed the speed bleeders and the front galfer lines.  I'm a little confused though...how do these speed bleeders work??  How to make them bleed?  Don't need to bleed anything right now (already empty).  Is there a special attachment that pushes the check valve down?

[roadie]

A speed bleeder is a one-way device and will only allow air and fluid to exit the system but not enter. So you open a speed bleeder with a wrench as you would a normal bleeder but then just pump the brake lever (or clutch lever) without having to close the bleeder at all. So you open a speed bleeder at the beginning of bleeding and leave it alone until you are all finished and then close it. A regular bleeder would need to be opened and closed on each stroke of the brake lever.

Brian

Brian, this is what I did with the OEM bleeders.  I opened with a wrench and kept pumping the brakes until i was sure it bled out totally, then i closed.  I think maybe I still don't understand...appreciate your patience...can you hit me again?

[B.D.F.]

Sure-

Stock brake bleeders are nothing but a tube with a tapered seal at the bottom. If you open them, leave them open and pump the brakes, fluid and air will flow out and then back in when the lever is released. In fact some fluid will be pumped out but only air will be drawn back into the master cylinder. This assumes you are leaving the bleeder bare without any type of hose attached. So a stock bleeder has to be opened, then the lever pushed (or squeezed) to eject air / fluid, then the bleeder closed, then the lever released.

A speed bleeder has a check valve in it so that when it is open, material can only be pushed out and not drawn back in. So each time you operate the lever, fluid and air are forced out but when you release it nothing is drawn back in- it is a one way trip for everything inside the hydraulics.

An easy way to check if you have a speed bleeder or not is to try to look through it; a conventional, stock bleeder has a hole all the way through and you can see through it. A speed bleeder has a ball and spring inside and you cannot see through them. Also you can take a length of clean tubing and try to blow through a bleeder- a stock bleeder will easily pass air both ways while a speed bleeder will only allow air to pass from the bottom to the top and not at all the other way.

You can buy an external one- way valve and put it into a piece of plastic tubing attached to a stock bleeder and it will provide the same function. I believe they are typically called 'automatic bleeders' and are only a few dollars at any auto parts store.

You can also use a brake fluid catching / bleeding container. This is a plastic container where the tubing goes all the way to the bottom. What happens is that any air in the system is pumped out and bubbles up through the fluid in the container. But when the lever is released anything drawn back into the system is pure brake fluid because any air has risen above the liquid level in the container. I do not find that these work well though because not much fluid works its way from the reservoir to the slave cylinder and it is difficult to get air from the M.C. all the way to the slave cylinder.

Brian

Brian, this is what I did with the OEM bleeders.  I opened with a wrench and kept pumping the brakes until i was sure it bled out totally, then i closed.  I think maybe I still don't understand...appreciate your patience...can you hit me again?

[roadie]

now I got it! So when I refill, I can be pretty confident to not have any air in there once the fluid comes out of the bleeder at the speed bleeder.  correct?  I'll have one of those bags from Murph attached to the end of the bleeder.