Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Frank ZZR on February 20, 2015, 03:05:12 PM
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Don't mean to start another long oil thread but I'm trying to decide on a couple of oils. I've been using Mobil 1 15W-50 (not JASO) for the the last 15yrs on various bikes. I found that it's getting a little harder to find and the price has gone up to $13.75 litre (Canada). I'm going to be changing brands on my next oil change and trying to decide between Rotella T6 5W-40 ($9.40 litre) and Kawasaki Synthetic 10W-40 ($10.00 litre). Walmart sells a 5 litre jug of Rotella for $47.00, not quite the deal that you folks down south are getting. Any thoughts? Steve, I already know your answer ;D
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Well, at least you started an oil thread with a warning..... :rotflmao:
And now for something completely different: try the oil(s) you want and note how the bike shifts when using them. Then put 1,000 to 1,500 miles on the oil and again pay attention to the shifting qualities: the ease of moving the shift lever, the smoothness of the shift, the engagement zone of the clutch and things like that. Because this bike actually shifts and clutches very nicely (actually extremely nicely), the difference in oils is really pretty easy to tell just going by shifting. I personally find the new Rotella synthetic T6 to shift quite poorly but again, I suggest you try it and judge for yourself.
Those are my thoughts on oil selection as I believe any labeled, branded oil of anywhere near the viscosity rating recommended will do a fantastic job of lubricating the engine. Might as well pick the one that allows it to behave as smoothly as possible.
Brian
Don't mean to start another long oil thread but I'm trying to decide on a couple of oils. I've been using Mobil 1 15W-50 (not JASO) for the the last 15yrs on various bikes. I found that it's getting a little harder to find and the price has gone up to $13.75 litre (Canada). I'm going to be changing brands on my next oil change and trying to decide between Rotella T6 5W-40 ($9.40 litre) and Kawasaki Synthetic 10W-40 ($10.00 litre). Walmart sells a 5 litre jug of Rotella for $47.00, not quite the deal that you folks down south are getting. Any thoughts? Steve, I already know your answer ;D
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Thanks Brian. I've done many searches and I'm well aware how you feel about Rotella. It's funny how one person thinks it's the greatest (Steve) and the next thinks it's terrible. I guess you are right, I can try it and see for myself. It's just too bad I have to pay 50 bucks to find I don't like it. :(
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If you find that you don't like it, do a CC50. By the time you get home (5 days later, ok, maybe 6) you'll be due for another oil change. :D
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$50 for Rotella? Last I saw it on sale, it was something like $20 a gallon. ??
Besides, you have to change the oil now and then anyway so it is not like trying a new brand / type is a waste of money. While I do not care for the shifting qualities of T6, it is not awful or unusable oil or anything so trying it is not a waste of money IMO.
And by the way, I really, really like Rotella- but the 15W-40 mineral oil, not the new T6. :-)
Brian
Thanks Brian. I've done many searches and I'm well aware how you feel about Rotella. It's funny how one person thinks it's the greatest (Steve) and the next thinks it's terrible. I guess you are right, I can try it and see for myself. It's just too bad I have to pay 50 bucks to find I don't like it. :(
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I agree 100% with Brian.
Rotella does not shift well in my yz 250, concours 14, ninja 1000, or sv 650. I am sure its is an excellent oil, but I wont try it again in my bikes.
It has to sound crazy that one oil is different than another, but when it comes to shifting, its true.
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T6 in my connie & even with 5,000 miles shifts smooth as silk !!!!!
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Wow, $10/l for Kawasaki syn 10W-40! I paid $14+/qt before sales tax - so about $15.20/qt.
'Tis my first use of Kawa Syn 10w-40
So in terms of shift quality of synthetics this is my C-14 experience:
less than 1000 miles:
A) Mobil 1 10W-40, Kawasaki Syn 10W-40 shifted best, then
B) Redline 10W-40
over 2000 miles:
A) Redline 10W-40, Kawasaki Syn 10W-40
B) Mobil 1 10W-40
I'm not explaining this^^^, only observing ...
Have Kawa Syn 10W-40 in C-14 now and expect to be a Kawasaki Syn 10W-40 user going forward.
Hope this helps.
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I've used Lucas 20-50 synth and think it shifts just great.... But now that I've read this thread I'm going to pay special attention to how my C14 shifts on the next ride.
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Thanks for the replies. not sure why you are paying that much for kawy oil. MSRP on the Kawasaki. Ca website is 11.56 per litre. It would be less in the US. If you buy where you bought your bike they should give you a bit of a discount on the msrp. anyone else with good results with the Kawasaki synthetic?
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I get my Redline 5-40 oil from a local lubricant wholeseller who sells Redline to the public (some of their oils,like Honda, the don't).
I think I pay around $8.50 a qt, minimum purchase a case of 12.
Now, I am not saying that you should go with redline; I am saying to whip out the phone book and look for oil stores,check prices. Company branded stuff like Honda Line, Yamahalube, Kawasaki, you'll not very likely be able to get wholesell pricing. But other stuff... maybe
I personally don't like Rotella since they reformulated it, but I do have a real hard time paying over ten bucks a qt for oil, even if it has oil squeezed from the anal glands of unicorns!
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No problem getting T6 to shift smoothly. Or the Rotella dino oil.
97,733 miles currently. 5,000-12,000 miles between oil changes. Zoom.
Dat
Sax
Man
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Don't mean to start another long oil thread but I'm trying to decide on a couple of oils. I've been using Mobil 1 15W-50 (not JASO) for the the last 15yrs on various bikes. I found that it's getting a little harder to find and the price has gone up to $13.75 litre (Canada). I'm going to be changing brands on my next oil change and trying to decide between Rotella T6 5W-40 ($9.40 litre) and Kawasaki Synthetic 10W-40 ($10.00 litre). Walmart sells a 5 litre jug of Rotella for $47.00, not quite the deal that you folks down south are getting. Any thoughts? Steve, I already know your answer ;D
I don't like Rotella myself. Tried it a couple times in a Kawi Z1000 that I had, and even then it was only because a friend sold me two 4L jugs of it for something like $20 each (he was moving to Alberta...lol). I found that the Rotella shifted nicely for the first bit but broke down quickly/quicker and it actually felt worse later. Just my own experience.
Otherwise, I run the Kawi S4 full synthetic, and have been using it in a half a dozen different Kawi's over the past 10+ years. I get the Kaw S4 at the local dealer for around $35 per 4L jug....that's less than $9/Liter.
For oil that I know is good for less than $9 per liter, I'm not running around looking for anything else.
As a rule, I usually don't want anything badly enough to actually go to a Wal-Mart to get it...lol. I hate the place.
Oh, and as far as oil goes overall, the rider cares much more about it that your engine does. ;)
Rem :o
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I get my Redline 5-40 oil from a local lubricant wholeseller who sells Redline to the public (some of their oils,like Honda, the don't).
I think I pay around $8.50 a qt, minimum purchase a case of 12.
Now, I am not saying that you should go with redline; I am saying to whip out the phone book and look for oil stores,check prices. Company branded stuff like Honda Line, Yamahalube, Kawasaki, you'll not very likely be able to get wholesell pricing. But other stuff... maybe
I personally don't like Rotella since they reformulated it, but I do have a real hard time paying over ten bucks a qt for oil, even if it has oil squeezed from the anal glands of unicorns!
Did you say phone book? :rotflmao:
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:rotflmao: Some of us Luddites still use them. If I had a smart phone it would just do dumb things.
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Did you say phone book? :rotflmao:
:rotflmao: :chugbeer:
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Gotta love an oil thread. I've put 275,000 miles on my last two bikes with Rotella T6, 134,000 on the C14. I have never had any problems with shifting except for the time my shift lever adjuster was loose. Once I started reading about the shifting complaints others had with Rotella, I started paying closer attention and sure enough, just before my last oil change I think I notice a slight difference in shift quality. I checked my records and it had been 6900 since the last jug of T6. So the next day I put in another jug and it did seem to shift a little better.
So I have always wondered about reports of shift quality as well as various other aspects of the Concours 14 mentioned on the forums that I have never noticed such as poor handling Bridgestones, too short windshield and risers, etc. and I have concluded that I must be an insensitive clod. ??? Or it could more likely be the fact that I ride three other very different bikes on a regular basis so I am accustomed to very different riding inputs.
As for T6 it has been quite a while so I will post again for the newer members. After some major forum badmouthing of T6 I did a back-to-back Blackstone Labs oil analysis comparison with $21 T6 and Motul's best, most expensive ($54)synthetic and the results did not show any significant advantage for the Motul. In fact Blackstone recommended increasing the interval with the T6 but not the Motul.
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I whipped mine out the other day as my :censored: ing cable was cut for my computer access by the very company that provides it. :censored: 's had the nerve to say they would bill me if it was my fault. I told them that would be very bad on their part to do such a thing as it was working before the cable work and now it's not. :censored: ing idiots. Cable company found two cuts in the line. I never thought of using my smart phone to look up their number... :doh: .
I use Mobil 4T. The shifting appears to stay smoother longer with that oil. Used Kwackers brand in the past and it was probably the worse oil I've used, but then again I'm :nuts: .
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Oh, it was a phone book you whipped out. Pays to read the whole post I guess.
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I never said it was the phone book did I?
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I think one of the very important things to remember is that while certain oils seem to behave better regarding shifting, I do not think any of them make much difference regarding actual lubrication properties. I believe all modern oils to be simply outstanding and will absolutely do a great job of, well, doing their job of lubricating the internal parts (Easy Boys!).
But the really, really slick shifting oil is 3 qts. of Rotella 15W-40 (mineral oil), a little more than a quart of Pennzoil 10W-40 (mineral oil- the 'plain Jane' auto oil read: cheap) and enough cam break- in lube to raise the ZDDP level to about 1,500 to 1,800 PPM. Turns the oil a very attractive red also, which is nice when trying to decide if your bike is leaking or the oil was already there in the parking lot. Seriously, this is a GREAT shifting bucket 'o stuff and retains its good shifting manners a long time. It is like sex.... only good!
Brian
<snip>
After some major forum badmouthing of T6 I did a back-to-back Blackstone Labs oil analysis comparison with $21 T6 and Motul's best, most expensive ($54)synthetic and the results did not show any significant advantage for the Motul. In fact Blackstone recommended increasing the interval with the T6 but not the Motul.
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I may have to try that. How did you come up with that cocktail?
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Well, I tried Pennzoil 'cause I had it and it was by far, the best oil regarding shifting the C-14 I have ever tried. But it does not retain that property for long- less than 1K miles and it is clunky shifting. I had been using Rotella 5W-40 with pretty good success until they changed the formulation, the major factor of which was to reduce the extreme wear package (ZDDP) to the new gummit standards of 800 PPM. I have a bit of a background in tribology and it was not difficult to find some extremely high ZDDP content material (cam break- in lube is great) to dump in the oil and raise the ZDDP back to where 'it should be'. But still the new formulation Rotella synthetic was not as good as the older stuff, at least IMO and in my bike, so I went looking again for another oil. Went to the tried 'n true 'Fleet oils' that have been used for gazillions of miles in the most demanding vehicles on the planet: Rotella, Delo, Devlac, all mineral oils, all 15W-40 weight. All worked well but were and all maintain their original characteristics for 4K miles at least (all I care about- I change oil by that time anyway) but they did not shift <quite> as well as Pennzoil. Plus the 15W cold viscosity is a bit much at below 35F temps. on starting (I ride all year in well below freezing temperatures). So I cut the 15W-40 with a bit of 10W-40 and it helps with the cold starting, even in summer. The ZDDP helps shifting and clutch action.
And as a no- cost extra, it drives some of the purists out there absolutely nuts because 1) they think that oils should not be mixed and 2) no one but an oil company can possibly improve a motor oil. And if you cannot irritate a pompous ass with a stick up his (or her) butt, why bother getting out of bed? :rotflmao:
Brian
I may have to try that. How did you come up with that cocktail?
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Rotella T6 has been serving me well for >93,000 miles. I only want 200,000 miles from this oil, because then I'll be parting my bike out on ebay (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol8.gif)
I'm going to run Rotella T6 for around 5,000 miles this time, then have Blackstone Labs give me an oil analysis.
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So, most of my riding is in extreme heat and at high speeds for extended periods. Since I have started riding that way I have ridden only air cooled bikes. No, I didn't decide to get an air cooled bike to ride that way, I had an air cooled bike THEN started riding that way. ::) Crossing the Sonoran Desert at 85+ mph on a 105+ degree day my oil temp was about 265 for 100+ miles at a time. I ran Lucas Synthetic 20-50 exclusively. Would it behoove me to step up to 20-50 and use a synthetic blend or stick to the 15-40 conventional in my Concours?
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Brian, what is the ingredient we need for smooth shifting? Whatever it is, I'd agree the Mobil 4t has it, the rotella, not so much. Is it that zddp?
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Vodka?
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Vodka?
Isn't that the answer to all questions/problems? Consume enough and you won't care WHAT oil you use.
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The answer is 42...
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More of a mid-range vodka...haven't tried it. Tend to stick with top shelf for me and bike. But I guess it's worth a shot.
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But 42 is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything.
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ZDDP seems to have a big impact on shifting. That said, Pennzoil shifts fantastic (when new) and that stuff certainly meets the 800 PPM ZDDP limit. ?? So to directly answer your question, I am not sure.... but ZDDP directly does go a long way to slicking up the shifting of a motorcycle.
I believe the bottom line is an EP or extreme pressure additive. ZDDP is only one type of this but the most commonly used one in motor oil. In rear end grease (Boys!) uses an EP package that is based on sulfer, hence the terrible smell of that stuff. Graphite is another one but generally not used in motor oil as it will end up as carbon inside the exhaust path in the head usually. And we cannot use that one as it can glaze clutch plates that ride in the engine's oil bath. The other one is chlorine based, though I doubt any motor oils contain that as it attacks zinc (see the irony of it being an EP lube in competition with Zinc?) and that would be hard on a lot of parts in engines, especially brass. So I think ZDDP is about the only choice for the EP package in motor oil.
Brian
Brian, what is the ingredient we need for smooth shifting? Whatever it is, I'd agree the Mobil 4t has it, the rotella, not so much. Is it that zddp?
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But 42 is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything.
And is also part of the great idea.
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Thanks for all the replies guys, I appreciate all the info. I've decided to go with Kawasaki S4. It will be roughly the same price as Rotella T6 here in Canada (not that it mattered). I've done allot of researching and have not found any shifting complaints with Kawy brand but found numerous with Rotella with all makes of bikes. I was looking for an oil that I could also use in my 2007 Vulcan 900 and my 2013 Kawasaki Jet Ski STX 15. I think the Kawy oil will serve me best.
BTW...Anyone know why Kawasaki would spec the exact same oil in a Jet Ski as the Concours? The Jet Ski has a ZX 14 based engine but does not have a gear box and clutches. One would think that regular car oil would suffice.
End of oil thread...... :chugbeer:
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End of oil thread...... :chugbeer:
Only 3 pages....I think not.
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Only 3 pages....I think not.
Ok then....which oil would be best for my Jet Ski? ;D
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They use oil?
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Only 3 pages....I think not.
Certainly not. An oil thread should be at least 4 pages.
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:popcorn:
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For us Americans, retell a is on sale at pep boys @$24 per 4qt jug and use code secret35 for 35% off that price
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But 42 is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything.
That's funny...lol. "Forty Two" is actually a short two word saying in these parts, and I still do hear it once in a while...LOL>
It will often accompany a thumbs up or some such reply, "42 Buddy!!", or simply just "Forty Two".
My wife even says it sometimes as a reply. :o
It's a shortened version of the old "Ten Forty Two" which referred to the old unemployment insurance rules where after working 10 weeks you would qualify for 42 weeks of pay...LOL.
Back to the oil though...I think the Kawi S4 is a very safe and solid choice...and it's not expensive either. You may be able to save another 10% on another brand, but in the overall operational costs of the bike...it's really nothing. In my particular case, the Kawi dealer is actually the closest and most convenient place to buy motorcycle oil. I may be able to save another dollar or two, but other retailers are out of my way, and I try to avoid the mouth breathers and nose-pickers crowding the isles of Wal-Mart. ;D
Rem
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Bump for a worthy cause. Surely we can get this to 4 or more pages if we all pull together and pitch in.
I'm running Lucas 10-30 Synthetic motorcycle oil in my Connie, and 15-40 Mobil Delvac diesel oil in my ZX14R.
The only reason for different oil is what I've stocked up. I like to buy in bulk.
Oh yeah, just to add some more flavor to the mix, I only use Wix filters.
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Lucas??!! Delvac??!! Wix??!! :yikes: Oh, the humanity! :rotflmao:
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Lucas is waaaay to expensive here at almost $18.00 per litre. You would think that it would be cheaper here since we live on top of the darn stuff.
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That's funny...lol. "Forty Two" is actually a short two word saying in these parts, and I still do hear it once in a while...LOL>
It will often accompany a thumbs up or some such reply, "42 Buddy!!", or simply just "Forty Two".
My wife even says it sometimes as a reply. :o
It's a shortened version of the old "Ten Forty Two" which referred to the old unemployment insurance rules where after working 10 weeks you would qualify for 42 weeks of pay...LOL.
I know the answer "42" because of the movie Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, the protagonists approach the largest megacomputer of the galaxy and demand, 'OK, you've been researching and studying the fundamental question of the universe for 5 generations; and we now want to hear what the answer is to our fundamental question: "What is the purpose of the universe and why are we here.?" '
And the megacomputer, after having shifted through all knowledge and understanding, replies: "The answer to that fundamental question you posed of the universe and your purpose in it is ... 42."
Now, enough with this trivia, back to oil!
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Lucas??!! Delvac??!! Wix??!! :yikes: Oh, the humanity! :rotflmao:
Sigh...you beat me to it.
Page 4 :banana
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Rookies. ::)
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I am looking at two drums of Delvac 15w40 right now here at work. If I could only bring home a bucket of it. Could a 5 gal bucket of this be my carry on luggage or would I have to check this as baggage? Lol!
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You can pick up 3 gallon jugs of any of the fleet oils at very reasonable prices. They are, IMO, the best value in motor oil anywhere on the planet. And you being so far south could make excellent use of them; the 15W (winter or cold weight) is a bit much in cooler climates but where you are it would be great oil IMO, year 'round.
Brian
I am looking at two drums of Delvac 15w40 right now here at work. If I could only bring home a bucket of it. Could a 5 gal bucket of this be my carry on luggage or would I have to check this as baggage? Lol!
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Repost. Rotella T6 analysis report.
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Repost. Rotella T6 analysis report.
That Blackstone report is yet another reason I lubs Rotella.... "Try 8,000 miles on the next oil interval" (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconmerci.gif)
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Repost. Rotella T6 analysis report.
:o anal redacted ?
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That Blackstone report is yet another reason I lubs Rotella.... "Try 8,000 miles on the next oil interval" (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/iconmerci.gif)
The quoted factory change interval of 7500 miles isn't far off the mark, then. Thanks for the feedback.
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:o anal redacted ?
What a great name. If I could play guitar I'd start a rock band.
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I don't EVER want to read a document that's been redacted that way .
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The quoted factory change interval of 7500 miles isn't far off the mark, then. Thanks for the feedback.
yeah, but so many naysayers argue Rotella T6 is not the oil to do up to 7500 with.
Thats as crazy as sayin' KiPass sux or such... just sayn' (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/lol.gif)
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Thanks guys. I'm sure Rotella protects the engine just fine as I'm sure many other oils would. It's all the shifting issues that I've been reading about that concerns me. I hate notchy, clunky shifting.
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Thanks guys. I'm sure Rotella protects the engine just fine as I'm sure many other oils would. It's all the shifting issues that I've been reading about that concerns me. I hate notchy, clunky shifting.
Both my Zx14 and my C14 have shifted the same for me whether I use Rotella T6, or MOBIL 1, or any of the others I tried early on.
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Both my Zx14 and my C14 have shifted the same for me whether I use Rotella T6, or MOBIL 1, or any of the others I tried early on.
+1 :thumbs:
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Thanks guys. I'm sure Rotella protects the engine just fine as I'm sure many other oils would. It's all the shifting issues that I've been reading about that concerns me. I hate notchy, clunky shifting.
Try shifting w/o using the clutch..it's like buttah.
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Try shifting w/o using the clutch..it's like buttah.
I agree, all of my upshifts are clutchless :thumbs:
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Both my Zx14 and my C14 have shifted the same for me whether I use Rotella T6, or MOBIL 1, or any of the others I tried early on.
To tell the truth, I tried the Castrol 10-40 motorcycle oil for a couple of changes and it shifted pretty poorly. So bad in fact, I used the last of it in my Ol' lady's bike figuring she wouldn't know the difference.
She didn't. :-X
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:rotflmao:
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To tell the truth, I tried the Castrol 10-40 motorcycle oil for a couple of changes and it shifted pretty poorly. So bad in fact, I used the last of it in my Ol' lady's bike figuring she wouldn't know the difference.
She didn't. :-X
Lol...mine watches me like a hawk with regards to servicing. Her baby MUST get the exact same oils etc. as mine, or the inquisition starts!! :)
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http://youtu.be/Tym0MObFpTI (http://youtu.be/Tym0MObFpTI)
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No one expected that!
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I believe the best oils come from the Larch. Nudge-Nudge...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK4oXs5QeoQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK4oXs5QeoQ)
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No one expected that!
;D
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*bump*
oil thread ;D
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So, most of my riding is in extreme heat and at high speeds for extended periods. Since I have started riding that way I have ridden only air cooled bikes. No, I didn't decide to get an air cooled bike to ride that way, I had an air cooled bike THEN started riding that way. ::) Crossing the Sonoran Desert at 85+ mph on a 105+ degree day my oil temp was about 265 for 100+ miles at a time. I ran Lucas Synthetic 20-50 exclusively. Would it behoove me to step up to 20-50 and use a synthetic blend or stick to the 15-40 conventional in my Concours?
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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Good idea.
Perhaps we can have PH's dummy weigh in on this issue? I mean there are lots of moving parts on that fella' and they must need some kind of lube, right?
Brian
*bump*
oil thread ;D
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In the end I decided to go with Rotella. I bought 3 jugs at $38.50 each with a $7 off coupon for each jug. That's a darn good deal!
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In the end I decided to go with Rotella. I bought 3 jugs at $38.50 each with a $7 off coupon for each jug. That's a darn good deal!
I used to get that stuff at Wally World for $22. Can't remember what I paid last time but I think about $30.
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But 42 is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything.
Don't Panic :yikes:
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I used to get that stuff at Wally World for $22. Can't remember what I paid last time but I think about $30.
$47 for a 5L jug at Walmart here
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$47 for a 5L jug at Walmart here
$47/5L Canadian dollar = ~$30 US $ per gallon (~4L). Not bad for today's prices.