Author Topic: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)  (Read 23058 times)

Offline Caffeinated

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Re: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2011, 05:13:07 AM »
My concerns are more with the type and placement of the armor in the gear.  Kinda like a block tumbling down the driveway.  Just the sharp corners contact the Tarmac mostly.  The flat sides are rarely in contact with the driveway until momentum peters out.  JMO.

+1 on that statement Bagger. Properly fitting gear with properly placed armor, along with a higher strength material at the place of the armor and padding, along with quality stitching are most important to me.  <$500 also helps.

The TourMaster and Joe Rocket stuff I have now doesn't meet any of the criteria other than price, so I'm on the hunt for something new.
Chris (COG# 8538), Bristow, Va
2012 Black Concours 1400
2011 Silver Concours 1400 (Totaled)
2002 Silver Concours (sold), 06 Vulcan 900LT (sold), 03 VStar 650 (sold)

Offline Bagger

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Re: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)
« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2011, 06:57:11 AM »
My favorite riding jacket before I went back to the Motoport/Aerostitch gear is a Joe Rocket deal.  It is no longer made and the newer models don't 'feel' as good as this yellow/orange leather with black textile areas.

I could ride in various temperature ranges as it had a removable quilted liner and shoulder/back zippered vents.  I would ride down into the 20s with a Gerbings heated vest or jacket liner/gloves.  And, up to the 90s (altho warm) with no liner and vents open.

I upgraded the shoulder/elbow armor to CE rated stuff.  It had the proverbial turtle-like removable back armor, that I removed since it felt odd with my Utopia backrests.

I really like this leather/textile jacket.  It has no model designation # on it and I ordered a similar jacket, but it was much heavier and fits differently.

But, I think that the placement and quality of the new CE rated (I think that's the upgraded marque) makes a great deal of difference.  This jacket fulfilled many of my needs.  Fits great, looks great, color awareness to cagers, works in various temperatures, comfortable, good armor placement.

I have a set of leather JR perforated pants that I've worn, too.  Work to around 38*s with a thin poly long john under it.  Good armor placement here as well that was upgraded by me. 

So, there is a variety of gear available that should provide most of your needs.  Visibility, comfort, fit, protection, yada, yada.  Price does make a difference as we have talked about.  But, wearing the best you can afford and upgrading the armor I think works well for most of us.
"I'm not a vigilante ... I'm just an undocumented border patrol agent."

Offline MrFurious

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Re: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)
« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2011, 09:24:32 AM »
+1 on that statement Bagger. Properly fitting gear with properly placed armor, along with a higher strength material at the place of the armor and padding, along with quality stitching are most important to me.  <$500 also helps.

The TourMaster and Joe Rocket stuff I have now doesn't meet any of the criteria other than price, so I'm on the hunt for something new.

This is where the EN 13595 standards come into play as they will tell you exactly how each different type of material compares in those regards.

EN 13595 - This covers jackets, trousers plus one and two piece suits and includes a wide variety of tests intended to assess the protection and integrity of the clothing ensemble . It has been formatted into four parts.

Part 1 - Establishes the basic construction requirements and the examination procedures for the clothing.

Part 2 - Impact Abrasion: The test involves the sample being dropped through a distance of 50 mm onto a 60 grit abrasive belt moving at a speed of 8 m/s (approximately 18 mph). The test ends when the sample is holed - defined by a trip wire, placed underneath the test specimen, being broken. The abrasive power of the belt is assessed using two layers of a standard reference fabric and the specimen's abrasion time is corrected.

Part 3 - Seam Burst Strength: A circular sample cut from the clothing is placed over a diaphragm and is clamped around its edge. The specimen is gradually extended into a dome shape thereby applying forces to the seam in all directions. The pressure required to burst the sample is recorded.

Part 4 - Impact cut: A test specimen taken from the clothing is mounted over a block containing a rectangular hole. A striker of fixed mass with a sharp blade fitted to its lower surface is dropped with a defined energy level so that the blade impacts the sample directly above the rectangular hole. The maximum penetration of the blade through the material is measured.

For a jacket or pant product to earn any level of CE rating it must pass all four parts of the testing.  I.e. if it passed the first three at Level 2 but failed to meed Level 1 requirements on the fourth part it would not earn any CE rating.  Additionally, if a product passes the first three at Level 2 and the forth at Level 1, it will only receive a Level 1 rating.  Remember though, this is only for the shell construction and materials and has nothing to do with the included armor as it's tested and rated separately under EN 1621.

Here's an interesting excerpt from the write-up webbikeworld did on the Clover jacket pertaining to how leather and textiles compare in the EN lab tests.

Quote
Leather vs. Textile?
I asked Clover if there was any difference in the protective abilities of their Level 2 leather clothing vs. textile and received a rather surprising answer

They said that the 1.2 - 1.3 mm leather (tanned in Italy, high-quality leather) lasted on the impact abrasion test for about 3.5 seconds. This means it is not possible to have a Level 1 product with the use of a single layer of 1.2 - 1.3 mm leather, which is the standard leather thickness used on a typical leather jacket or suit.

To reach Level 2, the leather must have two layers, one for the external shell of 1.2 - 1.3 mm high-quality Italian leather, which will withstand the first 3.5 seconds, then a second inner layer, made with a particular fabric similar to Kevlar, but stronger for the other 3.5 seconds to reach the Level 2 target (minimum of 7 seconds abrasion resistance). All Level 2 garments must pass the minimum 7 seconds abrasion test.

Is Level 2 textile better than Level 2 leather? Clover said they have a better result for their textile on the abrasion test. Note that this is Clover's special textile, not just "any old" textile from other brands.

For the impact cut resistance test they get better results with leather. Textile has better tear strength, and both leather and textile have similar values when it comes to the stitching burst test. The best test they had was the main stitching on their leather jacket and suit, which was able to resist up to 1,144 kPa pressure (more than 11 ATM). The Level 2 standard calls for a minimum of 800 kPa pressure, so their leather tested 40% higher than the Level 2 standards.

Not sure what all the actual value requirements are for all the tests (some are given in the above quote) or how directly they actually correlate to what the gear will see in the real world, but at least they establish a set standard so we have a way of knowing it's definitely going to offer at least a predetermined level of protection.
Jim B.
COG #9642
2009 C14 - Black - Non-ABS
Insanity is not as easy as I make it look!

Offline MrFurious

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Re: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)
« Reply #83 on: December 20, 2011, 09:20:41 AM »
Well, just spend a small fortune on some new riding gear.  After hee-hawing back and forth for several weeks between a couple different options I finally settled on the Rev`it Defender GTX jacket and pant.  Definitely not cheap at $800 for the jacket and $660 for the pant, but the quality is top notch.  The hardest part of the decision for me was whether to go with a removable WP liner or a WP outer shell.  Knowing how stuffy my Gore-Tex hunting gear gets when it's humid I opted to go with the removable liner so it would be more comfortable in warmer weather.

Looking forward to giving it a proper Ohio winter road test after the holidays if Mother Nature will hold off on the snow and ice until then.


One Note:   Be mindful of Rev'it's size chart and if you're on the bubble between two sizes always go with the larger as they do run a hair small being a European cut.  I have a 44" chest and 40" gut (34" jeans) and the 2XL jacket (44-46" chest) fits perfect.  The standard length XL pants also fit me like a glove, though they're a little baggier in the seat than I like with the liners removed.  The waist isn't a problem with the liners removed as there's plenty of adjustment built-in.  Knee armor lines up just as it should as well, but keep an eye on the inseam length in the size chart (short, standard and long options are available) as it varies by size.
Jim B.
COG #9642
2009 C14 - Black - Non-ABS
Insanity is not as easy as I make it look!

Offline Bagger

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Re: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)
« Reply #84 on: January 06, 2012, 05:01:26 PM »
Since the weather was pretty nice for the 6th of January in CT-land, I decided to hook up and ride .... Kris came out with a camera and I tho't I'd share my Aerostich Road Crafter gear with you.

I'm about 6' 2" and 215# without gear ... I'm wearing a base layer and Gerbing's electric jacket and pants liners/gloves.  No liners in the Aeorstich jacket and pants. 

BTW, since the temps were in the mid 40s ... I did not need the electric gear.  But, like carring a fire arm ... better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. 
"I'm not a vigilante ... I'm just an undocumented border patrol agent."

Offline Jeremy Mitchell

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Re: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)
« Reply #85 on: January 06, 2012, 05:04:22 PM »
You running a reverse snow plow on your GoldWing?   ;D


I would love to have an AeroStich.
Keeping the economy going, one tank of fuel and two tires at a time.

Offline Bagger

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Re: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)
« Reply #86 on: January 06, 2012, 05:14:18 PM »
Hey, Jeremy .... well, we had a pre-Halloween snow storm here in CT-land that dumped over a foot of heavy wet snow on us.  We lost power for over a week here at the hacienda (fortunately, I'd installed a generator couple years ago).  Hence, the snow plow sitting at the end of the driveway.  No snow since.  I love Global Climate Change !

The Aerostich stuff was purchase a few years ago.  I was not wearing much for 'protection' back then.  But, have revisited armored gear since I crashed my mountain bike in September.  Another story that. 

But, I wear the Aerostich stuff and the Cycleport gear in the colder weather.  I'll see how they work in the warmer months.  But, both are terrific ... albeit pricey.  So are hospital visits ... I know.

I think that wearing some sort of gear like this takes a bit of time to get accustomed to if you are not used to it.  I ride into the 20s with heated gear.  Just have to adjust riding habits.
"I'm not a vigilante ... I'm just an undocumented border patrol agent."

Offline Jeremy Mitchell

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Re: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)
« Reply #87 on: January 06, 2012, 05:22:15 PM »
I am just a cheapskate, so I bought a 2 piece Joe Rocket leather suit after my first get off.  I got a killer deal on everything on ebay ($150 for a $700 set) I had been running all textile gear but I always wear my leather jacket now. 
Keeping the economy going, one tank of fuel and two tires at a time.

Offline Bagger

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Re: Thoughts on riding pants (or 2-piece suit)
« Reply #88 on: January 06, 2012, 05:29:57 PM »
I am just a cheapskate, so I bought a 2 piece Joe Rocket leather suit after my first get off.  I got a killer deal on everything on ebay ($150 for a $700 set) I had been running all textile gear but I always wear my leather jacket now.

I have several Joe Rocket leather jackets and pants.  I like them a great deal.  Plus, they are less expensive than Cycleport (Motoport/Aerostich) ... and, I think JR is more comfy.  Not sure that JR is 'better', but I wear JR a lot of the time.
"I'm not a vigilante ... I'm just an undocumented border patrol agent."