Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: stevewfl on September 30, 2013, 09:27:27 PM
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Wow at the torque curve increase.... its tempting me to send mine in
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/smokinzx14/guhlflashc14.jpg)
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This forum shrinks pics.... clickie this---> http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/smokinzx14/guhlflashc14.jpg (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/smokinzx14/guhlflashc14.jpg)
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info on the bike?
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Who is Lee?
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Dyno chart says 2010. Are there still leftovers?
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I am very happy with my reflash. Service at Guhl is amazing. He called me 2 minutes after receiving my ECU. Reflashed it while on the phone with me. A few minutes later the return shipping label was created.
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I am very happy with my reflash. Service at Guhl is amazing. He called me 2 minutes after receiving my ECU. Reflashed it while on the phone with me. A few minutes later the return shipping label was created.
Yeah, it is yet another thing on my to-do list.
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Yeah, it is yet another thing on my to-do list.
Same here.....
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Has anyone seen a comparison between a reflash and the same bike with the flys removed?
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I am very happy with my reflash. Service at Guhl is amazing. He called me 2 minutes after receiving my ECU. Reflashed it while on the phone with me. A few minutes later the return shipping label was created.
A few hundred for 2 minutes of work....sounds like quiet an operation.
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A few hundred for 2 minutes of work....sounds like quiet an operation.
It's software. Your paying for the development and expertise, not the time it takes to install the software. I bet his market is less than 100 re-flashes on the C14 and he is not becoming a millionaire on our bikes. I also bet if it weren't for the similarity of the ZX14 ECU a reflash would never have been developed for the C14. So I still think it was money well spent to get the performance of a fly-ectomy without compromising the traction control.
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Would the reflash help with that "dead" feeling you get when you wind up fifth gear and switch to sixth? Feels like the bike even slows down a little.
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Would the reflash help with that "dead" feeling you get when you wind up fifth gear and switch to sixth? Feels like the bike even slows down a little.
I wouldn't think so since the increase in torque is at the low end. But "wind up fifth gear" would have to going quite a bit faster than the 155 mph speed limiter in the ECU on the gen 2 bikes. So the reflash can remove that limiter and allow you to actually "wind up fifth gear" on gen 2 bikes.
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Who is Guhl? Where are they at? How do we get in touch with them?
Linky?
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Who is Guhl? Where are they at? How do we get in touch with them?
Linky?
Pennsylvania http://guhlmotors.com/ (http://guhlmotors.com/)
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Did we ever find out if there really is a 'Lee'?
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Did we ever find out if there really is a 'Lee'?
Not that I know of...
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A few hundred for 2 minutes of work....sounds like quiet an operation.
It is several hundred- generally a "few" just means two.
But as Rhino said, he has to recoup the many hours of initial research.
That is like saying a DVD costs $0.25 to make the physical DVD, but then neglecting the 20 million dollars it might have taken to produce the movie.
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Did we ever find out if there really is a 'Lee'?
Apologies, I wasn't watching this thread
Lee is a local drag racer, does research for Brock, owns a ZX14 forum, owns a drag ZX14, but most importantly is a very good friend. He also owns a motorcycle business and when i'm to busy or lazy to fool with my 5 bikes his shop does the work. Recently hi front fork job on my ZX9, etc
He mentioned he'll have some drag strip time slips posted on the reflashed stock C14 soon
edit: he is smokinZX14 on his forum: http://zx1441r.com (http://zx1441r.com)
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Would the reflash help with that "dead" feeling you get when you wind up fifth gear and switch to sixth? Feels like the bike even slows down a little.
Like Rhino said- it won't affect that much (or probably wouldn't be noticed there as much). Keep in mind 6th is overdrive, it is a very tall gear that is not designed to have any power, it is for level cruising at high speed (generally over 65 MPH). To get the C14 into the power band in 6th puts you at a very illegal speed.
The Ghul reflash primarily addresses responsiveness. The secondary butterflies are what causes the lack of responsiveness and the flash essentially "disables" those butterflies by opening them fully, almost immediately. It DOES increase torque across the board (especially at lower RPM).
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Like Rhino said- it won't affect that much. Keep in mind 6th is overdrive, it is a very tall gear that is not designed to have any power, it is for level cruising at high speed (generally over 65 MPH). To get the C14 into the power band in 6th puts you at a very illegal speed.
The Ghul reflash primarily addresses responsiveness, much of which I don't think will really show in a dyno printout. The secondary butterflies are what causes the lack of responsiveness and the flash essentially "disables" those butterflies by opening them fully, almost immediately. It DOES increase torque a little across the board (and hp), but that is not the main goal.
the torque increase from 3000 to 6000 rpm is all that. thats the rpm range mine lives in unless I'm on it, this mod is attractive to me and I've never cared enough about the "performance" of my bike to do anything to it but this may be it
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Would the reflash help with that "dead" feeling you get when you wind up fifth gear and switch to sixth? Feels like the bike even slows down a little.
6th gear is for gas mileage, I can hit faster top speeds in 5th than I can in 6th, as Max mentioned it's just an overdrive gear for slabbing...
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Apologies, I wasn't watching this thread
Lee is a local drag racer, does research for Brock, owns a ZX14 forum, owns a drag ZX14, but most importantly is a very good friend. He also owns a motorcycle business and when i'm to busy or lazy to fool with my 5 bikes his shop does the work. Recently hi front fork job on my ZX9, etc
He mentioned he'll have some drag strip time slips posted on the reflashed stock C14 soon
edit: he is smokinZX14 on his forum: http://zx1441r.com (http://zx1441r.com)
How stock?
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the torque increase from 3000 to 6000 rpm is all that. thats the rpm range mine lives in unless I'm on it, this mod is attractive to me and I've never cared enough about the "performance" of my bike to do anything to it but this may be it
Please note you quoted a version of the post I had edited immediately afterwards, which currently doesn't say "a little". :)
At 3K it is pretty impressive, jumping from about 66ft-lb to 78ft-lb. That is 18% more, something that will certainly be noticed by everyone. At the higher RPMs, like 6K, a 1ft-lb improvement at 88 isn't going to be noticeable by anyone (that is only a 1.1% improvement). At 5K it isn't much whoop either (+2 = 2.3%)
And yes indeed, 3K to 6K is an ideal range to add more torque. Would like to have seen 2.5K
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Please note you quoted a version of the post I had edited immediately afterwards, which currently doesn't say "a little". :)
At 3K it is pretty impressive, jumping from about 66ft-lb to 78ft-lb. That is 18% more, something that will certainly be noticed by everyone. At the higher RPMs, like 6K, a 1ft-lb improvement at 88 isn't going to be noticeable by anyone (that is only a 1.1% improvement). At 5K it isn't much whoop either (+2 = 2.3%)
And yes indeed, 3K to 6K is an ideal range to add more torque. Would like to have seen 2.5K
Change the exhaust, Max. ;)
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How stock?
Are there degrees of just "stock"? Stock is stock :)
Now, if he said "stock engine" then that leaves the door completely open for air in and air out... but he didn't say that!
Of course, the wording is kinda wrong, anyway: "time slips posted on the reflashed stock C14 soon" Technically that is an oxymoron, it can't be stock if it is reflashed. The better wording would be "time slips posted on the reflashed but otherwise stock C14 soon"
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Change the exhaust, Max. ;)
You have to change the exhaust system to see the 2.5K RPM part of the graph on the dyno??
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Thought you were looking for increases at 2.5 Went back and saw the graph was missing that info.
As to degrees of stockness is that an absolute or a relative measure?
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As to degrees of stockness is that an absolute or a relative measure?
Depends on how philosophical we want to get!
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- are we a muffler or an exhaust ? That is the question.
.
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another page or two and I'll invite Lee over to this party (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/stevewfl/media/bigthumb.gif.html)
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You can ask Guhl to open the flys sooner than his normal flash , and they will , I had one of his local dealers who (drag races a ZX14 with his flash) send mine in , he told him about my cat less ZX 14 header and to open the flys sooner and I don't rev the motor as much anymore , short shift because of the torque increase, torque is a nice seat in the pants feeling ;)
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You can ask Guhl to open the flys sooner than his normal flash , and they will , I had one of his local dealers who (drag races a ZX14 with his flash) send mine in , he told him about my cat less ZX 14 header and to open the flys sooner and I don't rev the motor as much anymore , short shift because of the torque increase, torque is a nice seat in the pants feeling ;)
My understanding when I looked at the raw data was that Guhl's "normal" C14 reflash already opens the secondaries almost immediately. Are you saying that he still left delay in there?
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My bike is mostly stock except a K&N air filter and Leo Vince slip on. Don Guhl told me they will re-flash whenever I want for just the cost of shipping. So if I ever went to go to a cat-less full exhaust as an example, he will give me a new map for that for just the cost of shipping. One of these days I intend to get a full AreaP system with O2 sensor, ride to Pennsylvania and have Guhl custom dynotune my bike.
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I wouldn't think so since the increase in torque is at the low end. But "wind up fifth gear" would have to going quite a bit faster than the 155 mph speed limiter in the ECU on the gen 2 bikes. So the reflash can remove that limiter and allow you to actually "wind up fifth gear" on gen 2 bikes.
Ok, so my Connie has never quite redlined fifth gear, but it's been close. And, that's definitely not within the street legal speed limit.
I would really like to have more pull at the lower RPM range since that's where I live 99% of the time. Guhl is probably on my winter project list.
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I have my '11 Guhl'ed. The eco mode is untouched so I have flipped between eco and "guhl" mode
The difference is real obvious. Stock, it wasn't,eco and regular mode felt similar, now there is a huge difference. When I run eco, the bike is a dog until 3k rpm, compared to eco, feels like it has a bad head gasket.
The only time i use eco is when I am in 6th gear on long trips. Using the eco now feels like punishment.
As for cost, to me it is way worth it, the bike is so much more enjoyable to ride.
As for 6th gear riding, yeah, i notice a big diff there too. If you are humming along in 6th, 2k rpms and want to pass someone, you don't necessarily have to downshift, just twist that throttle a little, you'll get moving. Before, you twist the throttle and it was like nothing happened.
A lot of people have gotten guhl'ed and I have yet to hear one person say they were not anything less than very, very satisfied with it.
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I used the eco mode a lot before the flash,
forgotaboutitnow :D
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If you are humming along in 6th, 2k rpms and want to pass someone, you don't necessarily have to downshift, just twist that throttle a little, you'll get moving. Before, you twist the throttle and it was like nothing happened.
I personally wouldn't recommend riding at 2K in 6th gear (or really any gear, except 1st, but especially the higher gears), because 2K is just too low and any amount of throttle in 6th with this type of engine.... there is lugging. Some will disagree with me, but I tend to think the minimum RPM for 6th gear is 3K. If I have to accelerate more than just a tiny amount while below 3.5K in 6th, I will drop to 5th. If I plan to cruise below 5K, I will just stay in 5th.
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I wonder if a group buy is a possibility? Sounds like a number of people are interested. I sure am. That torque increase on the low end of the rev range looks very nice.
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I personally wouldn't recommend riding at 2K in 6th gear (or really any gear, except 1st, but especially the higher gears), because 2K is just too low and any amount of throttle in 6th with this type of engine.... there is lugging. Some will disagree with me, but I tend to think the minimum RPM for 6th gear is 3K. If I have to accelerate more than just a tiny amount while below 3.5K in 6th, I will drop to 5th. If I plan to cruise below 5K, I will just stay in 5th.
Not really, the bike really feels pretty strong, doesn't feel unhappy at all. It is really nice having a 1400cc bike feel like it has 1400cc (or 13xx cc whatever it has).
With the Guhl mod, you will do a lot less down shifting, trust me on that.
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I wonder if a group buy is a possibility? Sounds like a number of people are interested. I sure am. That torque increase on the low end of the rev range looks very nice.
Forgetaboutit
The best you can do is the dealer on this site's deal ...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13027.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13027.0)
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Cuda's right.
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I personally wouldn't recommend riding at 2K in 6th gear (or really any gear, except 1st, but especially the higher gears), because 2K is just too low and any amount of throttle in 6th with this type of engine.... there is lugging. Some will disagree with me, but I tend to think the minimum RPM for 6th gear is 3K. If I have to accelerate more than just a tiny amount while below 3.5K in 6th, I will drop to 5th. If I plan to cruise below 5K, I will just stay in 5th.
I get better gas mileage in 5th gear vs 6th at below 75mph.
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I wonder if a group buy is a possibility? Sounds like a number of people are interested. I sure am. That torque increase on the low end of the rev range looks very nice.
Somebody (me) suggested that months ago to no avail. Seems like Guhl is happy with his earning potentials the way they are..
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I get better gas mileage in 5th gear vs 6th at below 75mph.
That wouldn't surprise me. 6th overdrive is designed for cruising at high speed, to increase fuel efficiency and reduce vibration. Anything lower than around 60 or 65 likely puts the engine into an inefficient enough flow that it cancels and then overcomes any savings gained by the reduction of parasitic friction.
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Somebody (me) suggested that months ago to no avail. Seems like Guhl is happy with his earning potentials the way they are..
Supply and demand. If he believes he can maximize revenue by keeping the price higher because people are willing to pay it, then more power to him. Sometimes increased sales by lowering price doesn't net more earnings. And if demand were high enough, it is likely someone else would go into competition with him and drive the price down.
I am glad he invested the time/energy into making the mod for the Concours 14. Hopefully one day I will partake in it :)
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How dare someone not discount his work in order to suit my opinion of what it's worth.
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I hear you Gary, I hear you.... :rotflmao:
That wouldn't surprise me. 6th overdrive is designed for cruising at high speed, to increase fuel efficiency and reduce vibration. Anything lower than around 60 or 65 likely puts the engine into an inefficient enough flow that it cancels and then overcomes any savings gained by the reduction of parasitic friction.
Parasitic friction, eh? I like those words. I proclaim 'Parasitic Friction' the two words of the day. This is quite an honor as usually I'm the one with the words. Excellent, Max!
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Rode the '14 for the first time in a month today, went from Reno to Sutters Mill in CA, saw fall folliage, gold country, beautiful ride.
Looked at the rpms, at 55mph, motor was spinning 2500rpms, so that was my cruise speed sometimes on highway 50. With regular guhl mode, bike was fine. Yeah, it was 500 more than the 2000 I originally posted, but that is what it was. I think cruising speed with 2000 rpms in 6, gives a speed of just under 50 mph.
But, I digress...
Highway 49 is a twisty, low speed road with lots of hills and dips. With guhl it is easy, I think I kept it in 3rd most of the time. The tq just makes it so easy.
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Is there much or any improvement with this reflash over simply removing the flys?
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Is there much or any improvement with this reflash over simply removing the flys?
Positive: It is better leaned/tuned, so there is a slight bit more power, and a slight bit more MPG. Plus it doesn't ruin half the traction control's control devices and it is a lot less effort to perform the change. Also allows stock control in the ECO mode, so you have a good before and after comparison (and a gentler mode intact for any beginner on the bike).
Negative- it costs a whole lot more and you have to be without using your bike for a while longer.
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Positive: It is better leaned/tuned, so there is a slight bit more power, and a slight bit more MPG. Plus it doesn't ruin half the traction control's control devices and it is a lot less effort to perform the change. Also allows stock control in the ECO mode, so you have a good before and after comparison (and a gentler mode intact for any beginner on the bike).
Negative- it costs a whole lot more and you have to be without using your bike for a while longer.
I have an 08 so eco and traction control do not apply. I guess Ill stick with my flys out with the stock tune.
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I am glad he invested the time/energy into making the mod for the Concours 14. Hopefully one day I will partake in it :)
Guess who finally has the Ghul flashed ECU installed??!!! :) :)
I have been itching to put the ECU back in for a week. The weather turned insane- with temps in the teens, ice, gale winds, rain on and off, etc. As fortune would have it, there was finally a short break in the insanity today, so I had a window of opportunity. Installed that sucker and started driving out of the neighborhood...
I was a bit skeptical and was saying to myself "well, I don't really notice anything." Then got to a main road and gave it some throttle and all I can say is "WOW". That horrible stock hesitation and dead zone is just completely gone now. It feels like someone removed a wet sock from the intake! It just pulls and pulls. I rode around for as long as I could (maybe 30 min) before I had to go home. One time I gave the throttle a twist and thought "Hmm" and then realized I WAS IN ONE HIGHER GEAR THAN I EXPECTED. Engine sounds great still and no problems starting (did it multiple times). My face hurts from smiling.
It far exceeds my expectations and I can't wait for when I can play some more (and to install the Throttle Tamer). 8515 miles.
UPDATE: Good thing I came home... now there is a tornado warning and it is headed to this area in minutes. I told you the weather has been insane this week!
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:thumbs:
It's good to get those pesky flies out of the way of proper airflow.
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Guess who finally has the Ghul flashed ECU installed??!!! :) :)
I have been itching to put the ECU back in for a week. The weather turned insane- with temps in the teens, ice, gale winds, rain on and off, etc. As fortune would have it, there was finally a short break in the insanity today, so I had a window of opportunity. Installed that sucker and started driving out of the neighborhood...
I was a bit skeptical and was saying to myself "well, I don't really notice anything." Then got to a main road and gave it some throttle and all I can say is "WOW". That horrible stock hesitation and dead zone is just completely gone now. It feels like someone removed a wet sock from the intake! It just pulls and pulls. I rode around for as long as I could (maybe 30 min) before I had to go home. One time I gave the throttle a twist and thought "Hmm" and then realized I WAS IN ONE HIGHER GEAR THAN I EXPECTED. Engine sounds great still and no problems starting (did it multiple times). My face hurts from smiling.
It far exceeds my expectations and I can't wait for when I can play some more (and to install the Throttle Tamer). 8515 miles.
UPDATE: Good thing I came home... now there is a tornado warning and it is headed to this area in minutes. I told you the weather has been insane this week!
Nice report Max. Looks like I'm going to have to go ahead and do this too.
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Go for it C, it'll put new life into you right hand. :)
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Go for it C, it'll put new life into you right hand. :)
:rotflmao:
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Speaking as I am from this cold side of the pond here in England I have just has my 2011 bike on a Dyno and the resulting performance and level of smoothness is awesome.
For example, from a stock 128.2 BHP at the rear wheel and 81.8lb/ft torque I now have 151.7 BHP and 101.2 lb/ft torque, combined with this I now ride with a smile all the time, it's gone from a bike I was going to sell this September to one I am now keeping.
No idea what a PC can do but this remap at Hilltop Motorcycles in Leicester was well worth it.
Alan
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No idea what a PC can do but this remap at Hilltop Motorcycles in Leicester was well worth it.
Is that something new? I have not seen that mentioned.
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Speaking as I am from this cold side of the pond here in England I have just has my 2011 bike on a Dyno and the resulting performance and level of smoothness is awesome.
For example, from a stock 128.2 BHP at the rear wheel and 81.8lb/ft torque I now have 151.7 BHP and 101.2 lb/ft torque, combined with this I now ride with a smile all the time, it's gone from a bike I was going to sell this September to one I am now keeping.
No idea what a PC can do but this remap at Hilltop Motorcycles in Leicester was well worth it.
Alan
Do you have the before and after dyno charts?
Any other mods? (slip-on, etc)
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Hopefully i will have attached a dyno pic of my bike before and after the remap. See the writing at the bottom if your not sure, before and after. All at the rear wheel obviously.
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Thanks, BigAlan. :finger_fing11:
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That's better than the Guhl flash!
I want my $$ back!
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Hopefully i will have attached a dyno pic of my bike before and after the remap. See the writing at the bottom if your not sure, before and after. All at the rear wheel obviously.
I've been on the fence about selling the Connie or keeping it and getting the ECU reflashed. The dyno chart you posted is impressive. Is this an ECU reflash or adding a power commander? Are these new maps developed and tuned specifically for your connie on a dyno or is this a "standard" connie reflash similar to Guhl? Finally, is your Connie stock? If not, what changes have you made.
Pardon all the questions but I am VERY Impressed with your results and would like to do the same with my 2011 Connie.
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This is my second C14, I had an 08 that I pulled flies and put a power commander and areap p slip on. Wow this really woke up the beast, front wheel came of the ground all the time. Had to sell the 08. But replaced it with the 12, I had a full area P waiting before I picked it up. Rode the bike home from dealer 99 miles and pulled the ECU and over nighted it to Don at Guhl motors. I had them put the full system map in (muzzy map). I went this route as I wanted to keep the traction control fully functional and the flies are part of the system. Results were good but I felt they could be better. It was not as linear as my 08 and I had to work it a little to fly the front wheel. I added a power commander and paid for some dyno/tuning time. I ended up @ 159+ hp and 109+ tq. More importantly it was across the board improvement from 2500 and up. If you go this route make sure you turn the traction control off for the dyno runs. For those of you in the Seattle area I had this done over at the Brothers in Bremerton. They have the map on file.
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I've been on the fence about selling the Connie or keeping it and getting the ECU reflashed. The dyno chart you posted is impressive. Is this an ECU reflash or adding a power commander? Are these new maps developed and tuned specifically for your connie on a dyno or is this a "standard" connie reflash similar to Guhl? Finally, is your Connie stock? If not, what changes have you made.
Pardon all the questions but I am VERY Impressed with your results and would like to do the same with my 2011 Connie.
My GTR as that's what there called over here is a 2011, the only changes are a Beuwolf exhaust and a K&N air filter, flies still in, the bike was put on a Dyno and via the white plug on a lead next to the ECU a remap of the system was carried out, no PC no nothing apart from the fuelling sorted out correctly as my bike was way to lean.
I have friends here who have the same bike completely stock and have had the same results from a Dyno run and remap.
It's a different beast now, a pleasant one at that.
Alan
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Beuwolf exhaust
Please elaborate what you mean by "exhaust". Do you mean just a muffler (Google finds nothing)? Or full exhaust system [intake/pipes] or what? Your before/after is hard to explain (your dyno chart it is too much of a difference based on what we have seen previously without a PC and more elaborate stuff like a full exhaust system replacement... which is why so many questions).
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Max - This is prob the exhaust brand BigAlan is referring to: http://www.beowulfuk.com/ (http://www.beowulfuk.com/)
And it looks like only silencers are listed for the GTR1400 ... but good golly do they sell a lot of different choices!
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Max - This is prob the exhaust brand BigAlan is referring to: http://www.beowulfuk.com/ (http://www.beowulfuk.com/)
And it looks like only silencers are listed for the GTR1400 ... but good golly do they sell a lot of different choices!
Probably. Just checked: http://www.beowulfuk.com/products.asp?cat=2482 (http://www.beowulfuk.com/products.asp?cat=2482)
And in which case.... A muffler-only replacement makes little overall power difference, ECU flashed or not (same with air filter). It just shifts any restrictions to pipe, CAT, and exhaust header. So I am left puzzled by his dyno chart which would indicate that perhaps 98% of the change is just the ECU flashing.... and that is just hard to believe for the numbers indicated... isn't it?
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Probably. Just checked: http://www.beowulfuk.com/products.asp?cat=2482 (http://www.beowulfuk.com/products.asp?cat=2482)
And in which case.... A muffler-only replacement makes little overall power difference, ECU flashed or not (same with air filter). It just shifts any restrictions to pipe, CAT, and exhaust header. So I am left puzzled by his dyno chart which would indicate that perhaps 98% of the change is just the ECU flashing.... and that is just hard to believe for the numbers indicated... isn't it?
It is just the end part of the Exhaust (Muffler) i have changed, nothing further from the front pegs.
I have no idea about technical stuff apart from the bike is completely different and a pleasure to ride now, i guess Mr K sticks a stock ECU in every European bike no matter where it goes, my bike was lean all up the rev range, now it's sorted, i have no intention of selling this bike now, i was going to trade it out in September as i was getting fed up with jerky throttles and lumpy engine, now the bike is staying right where it is.
I was in the Dyno booth when Geoff did the remap, i watched every run up through the rev range and saw the progress being made on each print out so i know its genuine.
Alan
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It is just the end part of the Exhaust (Muffler) i have changed, nothing further from the front pegs.
I have no idea about technical stuff apart from the bike is completely different and a pleasure to ride now, i guess Mr K sticks a stock ECU in every European bike no matter where it goes, my bike was lean all up the rev range, now it's sorted, i have no intention of selling this bike now, i was going to trade it out in September as i was getting fed up with jerky throttles and lumpy engine, now the bike is staying right where it is.
I was in the Dyno booth when Geoff did the remap, i watched every run up through the rev range and saw the progress being made on each print out so i know its genuine.
Alan
I don't doubt your results are genuine. My current thinking is to get those type of results you have tune each bike individually to get the max power out of it. I have seen others post similar gains. The Guhl map may be more conservative to account for variations between motorcycles and wear over time. It is an ECU swap with new maps and no follow up dyno tuning. There may be some margin built into the fuel maps to account for this variation.
Maybe time for a call/email to Guhl.
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I don't doubt your results are genuine. My current thinking is to get those type of results you have tune each bike individually to get the max power out of it. I have seen others post similar gains. The Guhl map may be more conservative to account for variations between motorcycles and wear over time. It is an ECU swap with new maps and no follow up dyno tuning. There may be some margin built into the fuel maps to account for this variation.
Maybe time for a call/email to Guhl.
I reckon your right, mine was indeed a personal map carried out on my bike, not a general one developed by someone miles away, i know the standard of fuel varies around Europe so Kawasaki put in a general mapping, so as i say mine is personal to me, and boy do i like it.
Alan
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FYI
What a Beowulf looks like on a GTR
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FYI
Beowulf on my GTR
Love that green.
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It is quite nice, for green.
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Love that green.
Thank you................I like it ;D :chugbeer:
It is quite nice, for green.
That'll be the Le May in you talking ..................... :rotflmao:
Ain't you good old boys had Mr K's dark green your side of the pond yet?
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Thank you................I like it ;D :chugbeer:
That'll be the Le May in you talking ..................... :rotflmao:
Ain't you good old boys had Mr K's dark green your side of the pond yet?
What would really finish the dark green off would be Jays Golden Swedish Suspenders :thumbs: :rotflmao:
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What would really finish the dark green off would be Jays Golden Swedish Suspenders :thumbs: :rotflmao:
;D :chugbeer:
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Ain't you good old boys had Mr K's dark green your side of the pond yet?
I think we have morons figuring out colors for us over here. Let's see, three times we'll have had some sort of silver color. They keep going back to the same paint cans and peeing in them to see what colors come out of that. They have the imagination of door knobs...... :censored: morons....and I'm being kind.
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....root beer
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I think we have morons figuring out colors for us over here. Let's see, three times we'll have had some sort of silver color. They keep going back to the same paint cans and peeing in them to see what colors come out of that. They have the imagination of door knobs...... :censored: morons....and I'm being kind.
:goodpost: :thumbs: :chugbeer:
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We have had black and shades of black , silver. grey, blue, brown, red, green was around for 2010/11
I agree with you guys .....................no imagination with the paint pallet :banghead: :banghead: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
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FYI
What a Beowulf looks like on a GT
Don't look now, but you are parked on the wrong side of the road, or maybe the wrong side of the pond..
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Don't look now, but you are parked on the wrong side of the road, or maybe the wrong side of the pond..
:rotflmao:
Have you any idea how much extra we pay to get right hand drive bikes imported ?
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Looks good Charlie747.
A better question is, how does it sound?
FYI
What a Beowulf looks like on a GTR
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:rotflmao:
Have you any idea how much extra we pay to get right hand drive bikes imported ?
Ha, Ha, that's a good one, sir! Wish I'd thought of that first.
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OK, I have waited around long enough. I am going to get mine don. I went to the website this morning but didn't see any instructions on what to do so I emailed them. Is that the way to get it started?
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Guhl only gives deals to his dealers, If you have one in your area you can have them send it in with any special instructions , like remove speed limit , aftermarket exhaust system , fly's open sooner.
I called him twice never got a return call?
It now looks like a shop in England is flashing ECU's also ... with better results ;) not sure of their price or shipping.
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Guhl[...]I called him twice never got a return call?
Did you call during business hours? I had no trouble getting them.
Call and they will give instructions (essentially just mail your ECU to them. They will call you when they get it and ask the programming questions (didn't need to for me, since I enclosed a letter with all the info) then mail it back overnight.
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Looks good Charlie747.
A better question is, how does it sound?
Sweeter than a Motorhead concert . Sexier than one Miss M Monroe singing Happy Birthday Mr President :thumbs: :rotflmao:
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It now looks like a shop in England is flashing ECU's also ... with better results ;) not sure of their price or shipping.
Could you elaborate on that? I'm really interested...
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Speaking as I am from this cold side of the pond here in England I have just has my 2011 bike on a Dyno and the resulting performance and level of smoothness is awesome.
For example, from a stock 128.2 BHP at the rear wheel and 81.8lb/ft torque I now have 151.7 BHP and 101.2 lb/ft torque, combined with this I now ride with a smile all the time, it's gone from a bike I was going to sell this September to one I am now keeping.
No idea what a PC can do but this remap at Hilltop Motorcycles in Leicester was well worth it.
Alan
Page 4 and 5 of this thread.
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Could you elaborate on that? I'm really interested...
I kinda indirectly asked him once already and he never responded:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15297.msg198931#msg198931 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15297.msg198931#msg198931)
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As another option the other forum had a deal on these guys method, where you can flash your own ECU as many times as you like, in case you change the exhaust, etc.
http://www.woolichracing.com/products/kawasaki/1400-gtr-zg-1400-concours/kawasaki-1400-gtr-zg-1400-concours-ecu-flashing.aspx#productTable
(http://www.woolichracing.com/products/kawasaki/1400-gtr-zg-1400-concours/kawasaki-1400-gtr-zg-1400-concours-ecu-flashing.aspx#productTable)
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As another option the other forum had a deal on these guys method, where you can flash your own ECU as many times as you like, in case you change the exhaust, etc.
Interesting. It would be way beyond me, but cool stuff.
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I would think you would have to install Auto tune to have any idea on where the map should be set , I was thinking about doing something like that before , but with the ZX 14 header system ( with out cats) and the Guhl flash the front is high enough for this old man :chugbeer:
My wife keeps telling me to act my age, not sure what she means??????
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My wife keeps telling me to act my age, not sure what she means??????
yeah, heard that one before... :-[
;D
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As another option the other forum had a deal on these guys method, where you can flash your own ECU as many times as you like, in case you change the exhaust, etc.
http://www.woolichracing.com/products/kawasaki/1400-gtr-zg-1400-concours/kawasaki-1400-gtr-zg-1400-concours-ecu-flashing.aspx#productTable
(http://www.woolichracing.com/products/kawasaki/1400-gtr-zg-1400-concours/kawasaki-1400-gtr-zg-1400-concours-ecu-flashing.aspx#productTable)
I just got this C14 DIY flash kit and it's pretty slick. You can flash your own ECU, and a couple others.
I'm currently working on adapting a C14 PC5 map so that it can be applied to the ECU. This isn't new...there are guys already doing it. It takes a little work, but you can have yourself an autotuned ECU map in the end, and make changes whenever you want;).
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Has Woolrich put a limit on the # of different ecu's you can access?
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Has Woolrich put a limit on the # of different ecu's you can access?
Yup. With the purchase of a BIN file for a particular model, you can flash the ECU's in three different bikes (of the same model). You can flash those three as many times as you want, but if you want to do more than three, then you have to buy more "keys", or pay for a BIN File Subscription, or a dealer package, etc.
Rem
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When Don Guhl was working to crack the ecu there was some discussion of him doing this same thing. For whatever reason he opted out and just does the mail in reflash.
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Guess who finally has the Ghul flashed ECU installed??!!! :) :) [...] I was a bit skeptical and was saying to myself "well, I don't really notice anything." Then got to a main road and gave it some throttle and all I can say is "WOW". [...]
And now guess who tripped the traction control for the very first time?
I was in second gear and decided to accelerate more quickly than my norm. Broke the rear tire free just going straight and on a clean, dry road. I blame it on the Guhl flash.
Kinda scared me at first, but it was actually more controlled and predictable than I expected such a thing would be. I knew it was traction control because I glanced down the instant it happened and caught the message on the screen.
Neat.
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And now guess who tripped the traction control for the very first time?
I was in second gear and decided to accelerate more quickly than my norm. Broke the rear tire free just going straight and on a clean, dry road. I blame it on the Guhl flash.
Kinda scared me at first, but it was actually more controlled and predictable than I expected such a thing would be. I knew it was traction control because I glanced down the instant it happened and caught the message on the screen.
Neat.
Max, if you still have the stock 021 Crapstones on the bike, your are lucky you had T.C.- now you are playing with fire. You need a set of PR 4's to tame the Guhl demon.
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Max, if you still have the stock 021 Crapstones on the bike, your are lucky you had T.C.- now you are playing with fire. You need a set of PR 4's to tame the Guhl demon.
Yep, I couldn't agree more. Plus the front tire is looking pretty dead now. It is time.
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I posted my ECU to Dynotronics,Inc dyno@dptune.com in Texas (wherever that is...). I emailed http://hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk/ (http://hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk/) at the time but I don't think they replied.
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I posted my ECU to Dynotronics,Inc dyno@dptune.com in Texas (wherever that is...). I emailed http://hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk/ (http://hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk/) at the time but I don't think they replied.
Good luck.