Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Poseidon on February 04, 2018, 08:00:10 AM
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I know everyone has their own oppinion on breaking in a new bike. That is not what this thread is about.
I'm just curious if anyone knows the rational behind Kawasaki's method for the recommended break in. Most manufacturers have a certain amount of miles they want you to ride at or below a certain RPM. Vary the RPMs, etc, etc, to let the rings seat and so forth. Then change the oil and ride the way you want.
This is the first time I have ever seen restrictions continue after the first oil change. Does anyone know why Kawasaki recommends this?
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This is the first time I have ever seen restrictions continue after the first oil change. Does anyone know why Kawasaki recommends this?
Just a gradual phase-in to full operation. All they are really doing is interrupting the break-in with an oil change to ensure all that initial yuck is taken out before pushing even harder. I believe my friend's Honda called for something similar. I am check if there is any real interest.
With modern engines and such extremely good production methods, it is all probably way, way overkill. But, it costs almost nothing to do and doesn't take long, so I always recommend just following the instructions as written (except switch to synthetic at the third oil change). It is a good way to become familiar with the bike before going crazy, too :)
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What I noticed when I sold bikes for Kawasaki, was that all bikes had the same break in instructions. If it was a low revving cruiser, it was a max speed. If it was a higher revving engine, it was an RPM limit. But they all called for the same between those two types.
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Just a gradual phase-in to full operation. All they are really doing is interrupting the break-in with an oil change to ensure all that initial yuck is taken out before pushing even harder. I believe my friend's Honda called for something similar. I am check if there is any real interest.
With modern engines and such extremely good production methods, it is all probably way, way overkill. But, it costs almost nothing to do and doesn't take long, so I always recommend just following the instructions as written (except switch to synthetic at the third oil change). It is a good way to become familiar with the bike before going crazy, too :)
I understand the first half of the recommended break in, all the way up to the oil change. What I am used to with other manufacturers, is keep the RPMs down and varied for the first X number of miles. Then change the oil and ride it any way you want. It just seems odd to change the oil just over half way thru the break in, and not at the end of the break in. If it is still breaking in during the last 400 miles after the oil change, shouldn't it be changed again at the 1000 mile mark? If not, why not just call it broken in at 600 miles when you change the oil?
Oh, and the other thing I don't get... What is so special about the 4000 RPM for the first 600 miles and then the 5000 RPM mark for the next 400 miles? Does that 1000 RPM difference really make that much of a difference? Why not just keep it simple? Set a low RPM limit for X number of miles, change the oil to get all the junk out, then ride the way you want. Kawasaki's break in just seems convoluted to me.
Sorry, but odd instructions like that just make me question why?
I've always used dino oil for the first oil change then switch to either full synthetic, or in the case of my Magnum, a semisynthetic blend which is recommended by most of the big Victory gurus. They say the Victory clutch does better with the semisynthetic vs full synthetic.
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its probably overkill anyway... the dang bike revs up so quickly, its kinda hard to stay below 4K on an on-ramp anyways.
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its probably overkill anyway... the dang bike revs up so quickly, its kinda hard to stay below 4K on an on-ramp anyways.
I agree!
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Poseidon, Kawasaki has used the same break in procedure for years. When I bought a 1974 Z1A 900 brandy new, Mama K recommended almost the exact same break in table. It was hard to wait for a mileage milestone without trying it out and bumping the redline. It was hard to resist the urge to go WOT through the redline back then too.
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Poseidon, Kawasaki has used the same break in procedure for years. When I bought a 1974 Z1A 900 brandy new, Mama K recommended almost the exact same break in table. It was hard to wait for a mileage milestone without trying it out and bumping the redline. It was hard to resist the urge to go WOT through the redline back then too.
You hit the nail on the head! The weather just hasn't cooperated since I bought it. If it was summer, I would have done the 600 miles one day, changed the oil and done the other 400 miles the next day. I've had the bike since 12/20/2017 and only have 480 miles on the clock. I only get to ride on weekends and it seems to either be cold and rainy, snowing, or the roads are covered in salt and sand. The time I have been able to ride, I've gone as far as I can before turning into a human popsicle.
Not being able to open it up is KILLING ME!!!!
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if you bought the bike with 800 miles on and no clue if the oem breakin procedure was followed would you worry about it?
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You hit the nail on the head! The weather just hasn't cooperated since I bought it. If it was summer, I would have done the 600 miles one day, changed the oil and done the other 400 miles the next day. I've had the bike since 12/20/2017 and only have 480 miles on the clock. I only get to ride on weekends and it seems to either be cold and rainy, snowing, or the roads are covered in salt and sand. The time I have been able to ride, I've gone as far as I can before turning into a human popsicle.
Not being able to open it up is KILLING ME!!!!
your post is EXACTLY the reason kaw has specified as they did... attempting to add up miles, isn't a break in... it's called running the bike.. and THAT does not suffice as a substitute for varied up/down engine revs, which effectively seat rings.
it also does not provide the actual heat up/cool down/repeat cycle, needed to make the intervals realistic. Add in the fact people have this affinity to change oil prematurely, and sometimes do it multiple times, thinking it benefits breakin, are also another reason they specify oil change and break in intervals... and in my opinion they actually could have extended both intervals by another 25%, which would surely benefit the breakin process..
The first oil change does actually remove the possible metal from the system, as it should be in the filter, which gets changed, but any larger particles are actually sitting on the surface of the intake screen of the oil pump.. running in at a lot of miles "only", doesn't change the actual oil pressures to migrate stuff, and force the filtration to occur. Now add in the need for proper lube on the cams and clutch, the variation in up/down rpm changes, and it somewhat becomes a bit clearer.
Other than a "forceful" Intensive short breakin, on a dyno, with proper cooling, and using forced "high/low" rpm changes wayyyyyy outside the parameters Kaw recommended, which I do not condone, they have given the "minimal" intervals in my opinion...
Adding another variable, which Kaw is aware of, is the fact "everyone wants to run synthetic oil"... which actually prevents the engine from doing it's proper wear in process.., same as someone who changes the oil 5 times more than specified, thinking they are doing "good things", when in effect, they are just exacerbating the need for an even longer time to accomplish the process..
I stand by this simple statement..."IF KAW WANTED SYNTHETIC OIL IN THIS BIKE, FOR BREAK IN, AND THE FIRST 5000 MILES, THEY WOULD HAVE PUT IT IN FROM THE FACTORY".
they didn't and have their reasons for it.
Now, after all that, I can say I wouldn't have fear of going over the rpm limits, a FEW times during the breakin, but doing it on every take off isn't recommended.. my personal preference for doing the break in process is heading to an area of hills, and mountains, where you actually get the best benefit from the up/down accell/decell cycles doing their job, running on flat roads for long distances using a "max rpm" limit as a device to cause pistons rings to seat isn't conducive, and likely the reason Kaw says to go "xxxx miles"
so, be patient, wait the weather out, and enjoy the bike for a long time to come.
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So why not do the breaking until 1000 miles with varing RPMs and heat cycles, then change the oil? Is there something magical about 4000 RPM and and then 5000 RPM? Why not just pick one or the other... or maybe split the difference at 4500 RPM max for the first 1000 miles? Maybe add in to let the bike cool down after riding for an hour, or 2 hours, or whatever interval they like. The factory instructions seem very specific about certain things that don't make sense, and completely omits others that would make sense.
I'll continue the break in the way they want it done, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
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To your point Man of Blues, I do ride the twisty back roads in my area primarily, so with a 4000 RPM limit, I do a lot of shifting and RPM changes. Most of the curves are in the 25mph to 45mph suggested range. The thing I'm finding with the Concours is that it will take those curves significantly faster than my Magnum without batting an eye. For a bagger, my Magnum handles better than most others on the market.
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THAT does not suffice as a substitute for varied up/down engine revs, which effectively seat rings.[...] the variation in up/down rpm changes, and it somewhat becomes a bit clearer.[...]"everyone wants to run synthetic oil"... which actually prevents the engine from doing it's proper wear in process..[...]Now, after all that, I can say I wouldn't have fear of going over the rpm limits, a FEW times during the breakin, but doing it on every take off isn't recommended.. my personal preference for doing the break in process is heading to an area of hills, and mountains, where you actually get the best benefit from the up/down accell/decell cycles doing their job[...]
:goodpost: That is exactly how I try to break in a new bike- I vary load, RPM, distance, lots of things.... later on, zoom a little and such when it is warm, make sure I don't cruise at the same speed/RPM/load, and also why I delay using synthetic until no sooner than the third change. I am no sure modern engines need it as much as old tech, but that is what I learned and I stick with it, damnit.
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I'm pretty sure they run these bikes on the dyno and run the **** out of them,when they build them. ;)
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I think there are some other break in things, like let the bike idle for 30 secs before turning off (I forget). When i bought my bike, I drove it for 600 miles, then changed oil out and put in Rotella 5-40 the next day and drove another 800 miles. Before anyone says that you shouldn't use Rotella during break because it is synthetic, sorry, but it isn't. In the U.S. it legally is synthetic, but chemically, it is just hydrocracked dino oil. At 3000 miles, I put in Redline real synthetic. I don't want to turn into a oil thread, but after following break in procedures and changing my oil like I discribed, at 32K miles, I have a bike that runs great that I have never had to add oil between oil changes.
One thing to watch for during breakin is the tires. Between 0-500 millers, they have to be broken in too. They felt ok between 500-1500 miles. Then after that, they felt like they were made of greased up stone and by 3000 miles, my rear tire looked bald!
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I think there are some other break in things, like let the bike idle for 30 secs before turning off (I forget).
I think that is backwards- I don't think it matters about turning it off (never heard that before, plus it doesn't seem to make much sense). But during break-in it is good to let it idle for a while before taking off (a warm-up period).
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Nah, ride it like you stole it!
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At this point, I just wish I could ride it! Weather and work are killing me. They are calling for highs in the 70's tomorrow while I'm working, then a high of 38 and rain on Saturday when I could be riding! I'm dying to get just one dry 70 degree day on a weekend. Hell, I would be happy with a dry 50 degree day on a weekend at this point! Can someone please help me out here!!! Who can I call to get this weather pattern changed? Anyone have the local weatherman's phone number?
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At this point, I just wish I could ride it! Weather and work are killing me. They are calling for highs in the 70's tomorrow while I'm working, then a high of 38 and rain on Saturday when I could be riding! I'm dying to get just one dry 70 degree day on a weekend. Hell, I would be happy with a dry 50 degree day on a weekend at this point! Can someone please help me out here!!! Who can I call to get this weather pattern changed? Anyone have the local weatherman's phone number?
Sorry, I can't help. It is just as wacky here. Low 70 on a day I can't use, then 30's, then 50's with rain, then more rain, then 40's and rain, etc... All I can say is "it will get better" at some point; and what will also help is when they finally move the damn time back to DST/summer time (which is what it should stay at all year long). Coming to a neighborhood near you Mar 11...
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I think the weather knows I have a new bike and is just taunting me. It's a conspiracy I tell you!!! 60's and 70's this week, then 38 and rain this weekend then 60's and 70's again next week. The extended forecast is even calling for... you guessed it... cold and wet next weekend. It's looking like I'll be going on a night ride tomorrow after work. Supposed to still be in the 60's all night tomorrow.
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Why do they have recommendations? That’s easy. Lawyers and accountants. Kawasaki’s (and every other vehicle manufacturer), main objective is to make sure that the bike makes it out of warranty with as few claims as possible. Easy does it, does it.
If you ask the engineers, (me being one), They’ll tell you for best performance, you have one chance to seat the rings, it occurs in the first 50 miles.
I’ve been using the motoman procedure for 20 years? Cars and bikes, and never had a problem.
Aprilia
C14
BMW M3
C7 Corvette...
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Why do they have recommendations? That’s easy. Lawyers and accountants. Kawasaki’s (and every other vehicle manufacturer), main objective is to make sure that the bike makes it out of warranty with as few claims as possible. Easy does it, does it.
If you ask the engineers, (me being one), They’ll tell you for best performance, you have one chance to seat the rings, it occurs in the first 50 miles.
I’ve been using the motoman procedure for 20 years? Cars and bikes, and never had a problem.
Aprilia
C14
BMW M3
C7 Corvette...
Amen and dilley dilley!
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Why do they have recommendations? That’s easy. Lawyers and accountants. Kawasaki’s (and every other vehicle manufacturer), main objective is to make sure that the bike makes it out of warranty with as few claims as possible. Easy does it, does it.
If you ask the engineers, (me being one), They’ll tell you for best performance, you have one chance to seat the rings, it occurs in the first 50 miles.
I’ve been using the motoman procedure for 20 years? Cars and bikes, and never had a problem.
Aprilia
C14
BMW M3
C7 Corvette...
Don't some of the cylinder wall coatings play a part in how long it takes the rings to seat? I'm not sure if the Concours has any kind of coating or not, but some bike manufacturers are using Nikasil or similar coatings on the cylinder walls and from what I have read, it takes the rings longer to seat properly with those coatings.
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Well, I got in a 283 mile ride today and some how managed to finish up the factory break in as specified in the manual. I now have 1017 miles on it. I haven't taken it up to redline yet. Only hit around 8000 RPMs. OMG, does this bike pull hard above 5000 RPMs!!! This is going to be a fun ride!!!
I had planned a route out to the mountains today. High temp her was 75 degrees. I think it was probably 5-10 degrees cooler in the mountains. Since I know there are a lot of folks from VA on here... My planned route was route 6 out to the BRP, then route 60 back to Richmond with a few good back roads thrown in for some extra fun. It started to rain just past Scottsville. When I got to Route 29, I could see the rain was coming down a lot harder up in the mountains, so I rode down 29 and picked up route 56 back to route 60. Even tho I got wet, it was good to get a longer ride in. It's been too long!
(http://www.thevog.net/attachments/img_4921-jpg.436513/)
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Why do they have recommendations? That’s easy. Lawyers and accountants.
I've often thought that after carbureted bikes started to diminish in numbers (I'm referring here to the general advancement of production engine technology, not specifically to carbureted bikes), that the main reason for the break-in period, is to break in the rider to the bike.
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Nah, there have been plenty of bikes that could kill you.
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Two things.
As Poseidon said "Most of the curves are in the 25mph to 45mph suggested range." Speed signs make great suggestions.
Remember all that assembly lube put into new engines. The older stuff worked pretty well but had to be flushed out. If not all that extra zinc caused clutch problems. Maybe that first oil change is a hold over from times past. I still use lots of assy lube when putting an engine together and I still flush the oil for the same reason. If you want to verify this send your first oil off to a lab and see what they say. I'll bet it comes back with an unusually high zinc count.