Issues bleeding the clutch

[hlh1]

I had this same problem today and it's still not right doing it by hand.  Guess I'll have to get a mighty-vac.  Never had so much trouble changing the clutch fluid on a bike. 

[elp_jc]

I personally never use anything other than manual bleeding on motorcycles. And so far, can do that all by myself, even on the BMWs with servo brakes and 11 valves to bleed . There's so little fluid in the reservoirs than with vacuum, you start gulping air with fluid level in the middle ('tornado' effect). And I've never used pressure bleeders, and never will. I know they don't fit on motorcycles, but on cars, above the master cylinder, the system is not designed to be pressurized. I use vacuum on all my cars, and never an issue either... but I leave plenty of fluid to avoid sucking air. With ABS brakes, sucking air almost always requires a trip to the dealer to cycle the pump(s) while bleeding. Bleeding manually correctly, you just can't screw up anything, as you're pushing all fluid out of the lines. Just remember to close the valve right before bottoming out the master cylinders, and you'll be successful every time. And in case you introduced air into the system, remember Kawasaki was nice enough to give us bleeders for the master cylinders; use them . Just bought the bike, so I'm a year away to do this, but can't imagine being any different than my other bikes. Good luck.

[hlh1]

I personally never use anything other than manual bleeding on motorcycles. And so far, can do that all by myself, even on the BMWs with servo brakes and 11 valves to bleed . There's so little fluid in the reservoirs than with vacuum, you start gulping air with fluid level in the middle ('tornado' effect). And I've never used pressure bleeders, and never will. I know they don't fit on motorcycles, but on cars, above the master cylinder, the system is not designed to be pressurized. I use vacuum on all my cars, and never an issue either... but I leave plenty of fluid to avoid sucking air. With ABS brakes, sucking air almost always requires a trip to the dealer to cycle the pump(s) while bleeding. Bleeding manually correctly, you just can't screw up anything, as you're pushing all fluid out of the lines. Just remember to close the valve right before bottoming out the master cylinders, and you'll be successful every time. And in case you introduced air into the system, remember Kawasaki was nice enough to give us bleeders for the master cylinders; use them . Just bought the bike, so I'm a year away to do this, but can't imagine being any different than my other bikes. Good luck.

This is the way I've always done brake bleeding, to great success, but not this time with the C14 clutch.  It's stupid weird/difficult.  Try bleeding your C14 clutch just for fun and let us know how it goes.   

[Conrad]

I personally never use anything other than manual bleeding on motorcycles. And so far, can do that all by myself, even on the BMWs with servo brakes and 11 valves to bleed . There's so little fluid in the reservoirs than with vacuum, you start gulping air with fluid level in the middle ('tornado' effect). And I've never used pressure bleeders, and never will. I know they don't fit on motorcycles, but on cars, above the master cylinder, the system is not designed to be pressurized. I use vacuum on all my cars, and never an issue either... but I leave plenty of fluid to avoid sucking air. With ABS brakes, sucking air almost always requires a trip to the dealer to cycle the pump(s) while bleeding. Bleeding manually correctly, you just can't screw up anything, as you're pushing all fluid out of the lines. Just remember to close the valve right before bottoming out the master cylinders, and you'll be successful every time. And in case you introduced air into the system, remember Kawasaki was nice enough to give us bleeders for the master cylinders; use them . Just bought the bike, so I'm a year away to do this, but can't imagine being any different than my other bikes. Good luck.

That all sounds well and good and the first time that I bled the clutch I had ZERO problems and the job was done in 10 mins using the Motion Pro valve. I followed the exact same procedure the next time and it went sideways, as you can read above. Somehow air got into the system obviously but I don't know how. The next time I'll have to keep a VERY close eye on what I'm doing cuz I don't want to go through that crap again. 

[connie14boy]

That all sounds well and good and the first time that I bled the clutch I had ZERO problems and the job was done in 10 mins using the Motion Pro valve. I followed the exact same procedure the next time and it went sideways, as you can read above. Somehow air got into the system obviously but I don't know how. The next time I'll have to keep a VERY close eye on what I'm doing cuz I don't want to go through that crap again.

If you don't get all the micro-bubbles out, the clutch will start to engage on different spots on the lever after riding and parking I have found. A real PITA if the reservoir gets any air during servicing.

[hlh1]

I just used an EZE Bleeder and now the clutch is fine.  I'm not touching it ever again...     

[voileauciel]

I'm seeking some pointers on this, as the dealer wants over $200 to change the brake and clutch fluids on my 2012 C14, and there's no way I can justify paying that much for what has to be a fairly simple job. That being said, I've never tried to tackle bleeding brakes or a clutch before. Any tips, pointers, or suggestions for how to do this?

I'd guess I need a small box-end wrench for the bleed points, some clear tubing (or a MityVac) and the aforementioned Dot-4 brake fluid. With the newer linked ABS on this bike though, I wasn't sure if there's anything else I need to do.

As for the clutch, it seems fairly straightforward, but I've never changed hydraulic clutch fluid before, so not sure if there's a specific technique, or if I should just crack the bleeder bolt, squeeze some out, pour fresh in, lather rinse repeat until no bubbles show.

Bike has just over 37k miles on it now. Planning on doing this work at 40k (so in about 2-3 weeks time.)

[Spanky]

The Mityvac is very useful on our clutch line. I have read of people trying it manually and having problems getting the fluid to flow the entire length of the clutch line. I don't know if this is true, but I have read reports  . I have used the Mityvac on my brake and clutch line with no issues. So I guess the long winded moral of my advice is use some sort of powered device for the clutch line.

[McJunkie]

I've been reading about the problems with bleeding the clutch for years now. I can't say I've ever had a problem and I change the fluid every year. I don't like seeing the dark brown in my reservoir. I suck it out completely and bleed it out using a hand vac and finish it by pumping it by hand. Wrap teflon tape around the threads of the bleeders to stop the air from bleeding back into the system and change the teflon every time you change your fluid.

[just gone]

Successfully bled my brake fluid using a mityvac, even though I did empty the reservoir once and had to do the top bleed as well.

However after reading this thread, I'm actually thinking of just removing the dirty fluid from the clutch top reservoir and replacing it without a full system bleed. Perhaps empty it half way, add more fluid then just remove as much dirt and old fluid as I can without letting it get too low.

So, it's time for all you doom 'n' gloom types (and just cautious thinkers) to come out and tell me what I have to fear long term with that approach. 

[B.D.F.]

I am not following you there Marty. ??

Emptying the reservoir, then filling it up with fresh fluid and drawing the new fluid down through the system is the way I have always done hydraulic system flushes. ?? How else had you been doing it (Easy Boys!)?

Brian

Successfully bled my brake fluid using a mityvac, even though I did empty the reservoir once and had to do the top bleed as well.

However after reading this thread, I'm actually thinking of just removing the dirty fluid from the clutch top reservoir and replacing it without a full system bleed. Perhaps empty it half way, add more fluid then just remove as much dirt and old fluid as I can without letting it get too low.

So, it's time for all you doom 'n' gloom types (and just cautious thinkers) to come out and tell me what I have to fear long term with that approach.

[Conrad]

I am not following you there Marty. ??

Emptying the reservoir, then filling it up with fresh fluid and drawing the new fluid down through the system is the way I have always done hydraulic system flushes. ?? How else had you been doing it (Easy Boys!)?

Brian

I'm pretty sure that what Marty means is that he's not going to bleed the clutch system but instead he's going to remove half of the old fluid from the reservoir and add new fluid. Then ride the bike that way for a bit and then do it again...

[just gone]

I'm pretty sure that what Marty means is that he's not going to bleed the clutch system but instead he's going to remove half of the old fluid from the reservoir and add new fluid. Then ride the bike that way for a bit and then do it again...

close..sort of..but repeat removal after fill then refill and close.

Emptying the reservoir, then filling it up with fresh fluid and drawing the new fluid down through the system is the way I have always done hydraulic system flushes. ??

Agreed, that's the best way. At least until you encounter problems with the clutch and then wish you hadn't done anything.

It seems that the brake fluid stays clean but simply ages and to some extent and absorbs moisture which can boil under heat and pressure (so I've read) so a full system bleed is desirable to avoid that.
 
The clutch hydraulic fluid on the other hand, seems to transport dirt from the bottom up into the reservoir (at least that's what the video says), so I was just going to remove the dirty fluid, replace it before getting to the bottom of the reservoir and remove more until it looked reasonably clean. Then just take my chances with the remainder of the fluid until such time as the clutch drags or quits releasing altogether, hoping that it would give me some warning, but if not, thinking that almost any auto shop (assuming a bike shop wasn't close by) could (for a price $, of course) help me out if I got stranded with out a clutch on the road with a fluid bleed. In other words, the clutch bleed seems to be more problematic than a brake bleed, yet much less catastrophic if it fails to function. Thought I'd also give all the naysayers a chance to unload on my silly thinking.

Probably will totally bleed it when ever I think I'll have a month or more of down time in case I have problems.

(to save all the "easy boys" I just replaced "suck out" with "remove".)

[jwh20]

Successfully bled my brake fluid using a mityvac, even though I did empty the reservoir once and had to do the top bleed as well.

However after reading this thread, I'm actually thinking of just removing the dirty fluid from the clutch top reservoir and replacing it without a full system bleed. Perhaps empty it half way, add more fluid then just remove as much dirt and old fluid as I can without letting it get too low.

So, it's time for all you doom 'n' gloom types (and just cautious thinkers) to come out and tell me what I have to fear long term with that approach.

When I flush the brake or clutch lines on a bike I use a "sucker" and get all the old fluid out of the reservoir and then I wipe all the nasty gunk out of the bottom that collects.  Then I fill it back up with clean fluid.  After that I use my Mighty-Vac and suck out the old fluid from the lines and make sure that I keep the resrvoir topped off.  After the fluid runs clean I top it off again and button it back up.  Takes maybe 10-15 minutes.

[VirginiaJim]

I just use a turkey baster to get 3/4s out, then remove as much of the black flecks as I can, add clean fluid, commence bleeding.  Knock on wood, that usually works fine for me.  Clutch acted a bit wonky Saturday morning but it got better (normal action) during the day....thank goodness.

[hlh1]

I just use a turkey baster to get 3/4s out, then remove as much of the black flecks as I can, add clean fluid, commence bleeding.  Knock on wood, that usually works fine for me.  Clutch acted a bit wonky Saturday morning but it got better (normal action) during the day....thank goodness.

+1 on the Turkey Baster!

[B.D.F.]

Ah, I got you now- you are not flushing the system at all but rather just changing out the reservoir fluid. Let's see..... as the clutch hydraulics actually move a fair amount of fluid from slave to master (it would be politically incorrect to put an Easy Boys! after that line  ), the grunge and fines should work their way up into the reservoir, sort of, and I guess you could clean the system that way.... mostly. At least it would work a LOT better than that same method would work on brakes as the brake system does not really move any fluid, at least not in 'real time'.

Lowering the boiling point of the brake fluid is often sighted as a reason for changing the brake fluid but in my own personal opinion, a better reason is to remove the water saturated fluid so things do not corrode inside the hydraulic system. And these systems really do turn a white knuckle, 'I nearly ran out of bad words' job into a quick, simple, effortless (beyond turning the bleeder) part of normal maintenance.

All of that said, with new powered vacuum brake bleeders being below $30, there is really no longer any need to fear the <hydraulic> reaper on a C-14. Of course that assumes one has an air compressor or access to a friend with an air compressor. In your case Marty, just let me know and I will send you and envelope full of compressed air guaranteed to maintain internal (Easy Boys!) pressure for at least one year.

Brian

close..sort of..but repeat removal after fill then refill and close.
 Agreed, that's the best way. At least until you encounter problems with the clutch and then wish you hadn't done anything.

It seems that the brake fluid stays clean but simply ages and to some extent and absorbs moisture which can boil under heat and pressure (so I've read) so a full system bleed is desirable to avoid that.
 
The clutch hydraulic fluid on the other hand, seems to transport dirt from the bottom up into the reservoir (at least that's what the video says), so I was just going to remove the dirty fluid, replace it before getting to the bottom of the reservoir and remove more until it looked reasonably clean. Then just take my chances with the remainder of the fluid until such time as the clutch drags or quits releasing altogether, hoping that it would give me some warning, but if not, thinking that almost any auto shop (assuming a bike shop wasn't close by) could (for a price $, of course) help me out if I got stranded with out a clutch on the road with a fluid bleed. In other words, the clutch bleed seems to be more problematic than a brake bleed, yet much less catastrophic if it fails to function. Thought I'd also give all the naysayers a chance to unload on my silly thinking.

Probably will totally bleed it when ever I think I'll have a month or more of down time in case I have problems.

(to save all the "easy boys" I just replaced "suck out" with "remove".)

[gPink]

  "I will send you and envelope full of compressed air"

Wouldn't nitrogen be better?

[VirginiaJim]

Compressed air comes with nitrogen.  It's a package deal.

[B.D.F.]

Personally, if I did not use air, I would go with argon- it is heavier than air and settles to the bottom of the envelope; those are guaranteed for two full years instead of the one year guarantee that air comes with.

Brian

  "I will send you and envelope full of compressed air"

Wouldn't nitrogen be better?