1009 mile ride report

[maxtog]

So, if I disable the solenoid to where the knob can turn without the fob, then it would work like a Harley? What is the downside of that?

No, you can't.  The ECU will not start without the electronic FOB (passive or active).  Doesn't matter what you do do the ignition, this is deep security in the computer itself.  Which is part of the whole point, it is anti-theft.

[VirginiaJim]

So, if I disable the solenoid to where the knob can turn without the fob, then it would work like a Harley? What is the downside of that?

Beary

Do you realize what you just said?    and  and  !

[martin_14]

The mad pow-ah of KiPass is the only reason my bike has >109,000 miles on it and never evah left me walkin'. I never bought into the radiator protection, "pinning" bags, expensive oils, and a host of other measures suggested to me for this bike.  I always had the faith in the "KiPass".

For those not in the know, all the mad pow-ah resides in the FOB

At 200,000 miles when I'm parting my C14 bike out on the fleabay, I'll be smiling at those who knocked the KiPass

what took you so long? 

[VirginiaJim]

Martin, I had the same thoughts.. 

[Rhino]

So, if I disable the solenoid to where the knob can turn without the fob, then it would work like a Harley? What is the downside of that?

Beary

You would still have to trigger the activation by pushing down the stove knob, kind of an electronic hand shake I believe. (Brian, correct me if I'm wrong)

[VirginiaJim]

From what I can make out in my manual...

• Push the switch down
• KIPASS ECU talks to switch
• KIPASS ECU talks to FOB
• KIPASS FOB talks back to KIPASS ECU
• KIPASS ECU talks to switch
• Switch talks to KIPASS ECU
• Bike turns on
• KIPASS ECU talks to DFI ECU
• DFI ECU talks back to KIPASS ECU
• Smiles all 'round

[gPink]

From what I can make out in my manual...

• Push the switch down
• KIPASS ECU talks to switch
• KIPASS ECU talks to FOB
• KIPASS FOB talks back to KIPASS ECU
• KIPASS ECU talks to switch
• Switch talks to KIPASS ECU
• Bike turns on
• KIPASS ECU talks to DFI ECU
• DFI ECU talks back to KIPASS ECU
• Smiles all 'round

Before kipass

1. turn key on
2. push start button

[B.D.F.]

No, basically the other way around; the main ecu will not allow the bike to crank nor will it provide any spark for ignition until KiPass authenticates that it has senses a valid fob. KiPass is built into the ECU of the bike and cannot be removed or worked- around in any practical amount of time or for any practical cost.

That said, to the best of my knowledge, KiPass has not failed yet on any of these bikes in almost 10 years. Further the Mitsubishi 'MISTY' system that is what KiPass is using is used in literally millions of cars too. My own opinion is that people react to this emotionally and become hell- bent on fixing a system that is not broken or even a little 'less than the best', not to mention starting all kinds of ridiculous 'old wive's tales' such as 'never remove the main key or the sky will remain dark for 30 days' or something similarly silly (but mildly amusing). KiPass is an asset, not a liability IMO. If one wants to eliminate the whole process of carrying around the fob, and is willing to let the anti- theft property of KiPass go with it, then take the RFID block out of any fob and glue it to the front of the ignition switch housing. You will never have to carry / put a battery in/ worry about losing the fob again. And by a KiPass activation switch bypass and you will have eliminated the 'look and feel' of KiPass and can treat it like any other bike- just remove the key when you leave the bike.

The only practical way I know of to eliminate KiPass from a C-14 would be to get an ECU from a ZX 14, do whatever changes were required to install it in the C-14, then re- code the new ECU to operate the C-14 correctly (ignition timing curves, fuel delivery would be the main changes but also the secondary throttle plates if those were kept). And finally of course, all functions of a C-14 that are not shared with a ZX 14 would be lost such as traction control.

Brian

So what I understand your are saying Brian is that the Kipasss only controls the key relay, not the starter at all. So by disabling the relay, the Kipass has no function at all and will not prevent starting the bike. Interesting.

I think a security system with a FOB that disables only the starter switch can be purchased for less than $30. Hmm, thinking, thinking....

Beary

[VirginiaJim]

Before kipass

1. turn key on
2. push start button

Luddite..  (word of the day)

[B.D.F.]

I am not even sure that is an American English word, in the same way 'whilst' is not an American English word.

At any rate, the origin of the word, according to legend, was a man named Ned Ludd, who smashed textile machines. That evolved into the urban legend of a General Ludd or King Ludd, who lived in Sherwood Forrest and appear when needed to smash down the new, horrible technology. Further legend has it that there was a strain of mental illness in the Ludd family that has been passed down to all the male offspring. The most recent case, again according to legend, is one 'Captain Robert 'Bob' Ludd, a living descendant of General Ludd, who uses the internet to further his cause and spew his maniacal, hate- filled venom against all things technological but especially, any technology added to any device(s) that did not previously use that technology. The legend has this mythical, current Ludd living in Derwood Forrest somewhere in America; no one knows exactly where but all fear coming w/in hearing or even reading distance of one of his tirades.

The End

Brian 

Luddite..  (word of the day)

[jirod]

...Nope...Even if you then tried to bump start it would not start or run.

So, if I disable the solenoid to where the knob can turn without the fob, then it would work like a Harley? What is the downside of that?

Beary

 
That's right, just like a Harley it will not start or run. Actually better than a Harley as it will not cause hearing loss either.

(just kidding, HD fans)

[VirginiaJim]

I am not even sure that is an American English word, in the same way 'whilst' is not an American English word.

Brian 

Makes no matter.  Still the word of the day.

[Rhino]

not to mention starting all kinds of ridiculous 'old wive's tales' such as 'never remove the main key or the sky will remain dark for 30 days'

No that's crazy. The sky will not remain dark. But somewhere an orphan will cry. You don't want to be the cause of an orphan crying... do you?

[VirginiaJim]

Stars can wink out as well..

[Mage]

I have a neutral stance on the kipass system as it has neither caused any problems nor generated any feelings of euphoria. I leave the fob in the tank bag unless I'm in a questionable area and use the ignition key as normal non-paranoid persons do.

OK... but how do you lock the forks?  Am I missing something, here?

[maxtog]

OK... but how do you lock the forks?  Am I missing something, here?

What he is saying is that he is leaving the fob in the tank bag and removing the [stove knob] ignition key and carrying either that or the small fob key or a key copy with him.  The bike is, indeed locked in such a case.  And fairly securely, as long as he did not leave the small metal key in the active fob in the bag.  Doing this makes the bike act more like a traditionally keyed motorcycle.  EXCEPT for the steering lock, because you cannot remove the key in the steering-locked position.

[corrected]

[Mage]

What he is saying is that he is leaving the fob in the tank bag and removing the [stove knob] ignition key and carrying either that or the small fob key or a key copy with him.  The bike is, indeed locked in such a case.  And fairly securely, as long as he did not leave the small metal key in the active fob in the bag.  Doing this makes the bike act more like a traditionally keyed motorcycle.

The steering can be locked by turning the key to the lock position before removing the key.

I don't think the key will come out when turned to the lock position?  I'll find out next spring

[maxtog]

I don't think the key will come out when turned to the lock position?  I'll find out next spring

Oh, yes, you are correct.  You cannot remove the key when it is in the steering-locked position.  Not sure what got into me on that reply (which I have now corrected).

[DaddyFlip]

Before kipass

1. turn key on
2. push start button

Noooooooo... what Jim said was

1. Push the switch down
10. Smiles all around

KIPASS takes care of two through nine
The rest of us enjoy the rhyme.

[DaddyFlip]

Well let me start out by saying I love this bike! 

Me, too!

Just eclipsed 1000 miles on the way home tonight.  Weather is taking a turn so I might not get any rides in for a bit.

Put 1031 miles on Eli running to central Texas for some BBQ yesterday (500 miles each way). Ran the 130 toll road at sustained 85-90mph in moderate side winds. Hit 2001 total miles pulling in the driveway.

Did I say I love this bike, well I do.  I also have some observations and favorite mods (so far).  I'll start with the few cons I have found, here goes.


CONS:

- The whole key fob thing an annoying, gimmicky, and useless thing on a motorcycle (I know, there likely folks on here that love it)
  -- Have to carry a bulky fob instead of a nice small key
  -- Have to use the key to get in the bag so not only do I have to carry the fob, I have to disassemble the key to open the fuel cap (already fixed that) or bags
  -- Sometimes I have to push in the "key" a couple/three times to get it to work, yeah this will be a long term maintenance nightmare 
  -- Good example of "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should"
  -- If there was a simple/easy way to remove it and install a standard key I'd be all over it

I disagree with everything you said. I consider pros everything you consider a con. It's unique and cool. Small key easier to lose. Bike never needs a key. I can unlock bags with bike running. Let's just say that maybe there's a better way, but I like this way.

- Really don't like the linked brakes, I can live with them but would rather they not be there
  -- Sure, folks who grew up on cruisers may tend to depend on the rear brake (excessively for a bike with this geometry) but I'm more of a sport/performance standard kind of guy and would prefer to do it myself

I'm a front brake person, too. I think my brakes are messed up. The lever pumps and fights me. The pistons grab and buck and hammer the bike. It's like overactive or defective ABS. It may need a full bleed. So right now, I don't know if I like the brakes, but I know I don't like what I have now.

- Tire pressure monitors again, I can live with them but would rather they not be there
  -- I'd much rather have a 90 degree (easy to access) standard valve stem
  -- I get it, some folks tend to ignore regular maintenance/vehicle checks but I don't and would prefer less complexity

TPMS is spot on with my manual check. I had a scare taking off in my run in 44F weather. Got rear TP battery screen takeover. Turned around, went home, checked manual, got mad, restarted bike, all good. So battery swap coming soon. I have a 90 degree gauge stem, standard stems are fine. I manual check regularly.

PROS and favorite mods:

- Great overall package that fits my needs/desires to a T, well almost thus all the mods 

- Power is very good, looking forward to exhaust system/PC V/Auto Tune install and doing a fly-ectomy as more power is better

I will do no engine/exhaust/tuning mods. Don't need it.

- MPG is ok, could always be better but I'll take HP over MPG just about any day

I get calculated 40mpg under all conditions when speeds are 70mph or less. When I ran mostly 75 and then hit the 85mph toll road, mileage was 36mpg. This is the ECO map! This is pretty lame compared to the ZR7 and Triumph Explorer, which both never got worse than 49mpg under all conditions. The big Tiger could get 53mpg on 87 octane ethanol free and almost outrun the Connie. And it had cruise. Those are the two things I miss about the Tiger. Connie mpg sucks, but its good enough.

- Smooth shifting and pretty darn good gearing (good thing as shaft drive makes changing that a challenge)

Great gearing. OD is nice (I run lotsa interstate). Shifting is so-so. Notchy and clunky. I'm running Mobil1 Racing 4T. Maybe it just needs more break-in.

- Sure don't miss messy chain lube (though other bikes are chain so I'll appreciate it every time I lube and/or adjust the chains)

- Factory seat is pretty darn good but the modular Corbin is great (wife likes it better as well)

I'm 100% solo. I like the standard seat so far. I added my Airhawk R and was able to ride 9 hours with 4 gas breaks totaling 35 minutes. And do it again the next day. I was squirming a bit near the end of day 2; a Baldwin GT rebuild would eliminate issues.

- Favorite mod to date is the Corbin smuggler mainly because I can leave it unlocked if I want to and not have to dig the darn key out of the fob to access storage (did I say I don't like the fob?)

I'm running a Cortech 12-18L magnetic tank bag.

- 1/4 turn fuel cap is great, mainly because I don't have to dig the darn key out of the fob to open it (did I say I don't like the fob?)

I want my gas cap to key lock. Like when traveling and leaving the bike out and about. Not worth the risk; miscreants everywhere. FOB is always handy, key right there.

- 2" risers are good, looking forward to trying the wedges

Yep, got the Heli risers. Good stuff.

- Lowered rider and passenger pegs are a nice change

I wouldn't want that. Even at 6'3", lower is not better. Its fine for short trips and standing up (like on an ADV bike), but not long distance. Using strong leg muscles to support is better for butt and back comfort. I will do the drill n tap mod then add highway pegs for the occasional stretch.

- Really like my short (2 finger) brake lever/mid length clutch lever

And finally, under the category of why in the heck didn't the bike come with this:

- Automotive like cruse control
  -- The dollars (yen?) they spent on the stupid key fob deal (did I say I don't like the fob?) could have been applied to something useful
  -- Mama Kawasaki already has it (Voyager 1700 has it and it works great)

Couldn't agree more. The big tourer system could easily be integrated.

So, first 1000 miles have been great.  I've been through a bunch of bikes over the years and most don't hang around long but I believe this one has already earned a long term parking space, likely between ZRX1200r bookends.


P.S. Did I remember to say anything about how I don't like the KIPASS or maybe that it should have cruise control?

In all seriousness, those two items almost drove me to a FJR but big green has a strong hold on me.  First 1000 miles confirms I made the correct choice.

Same here. Just couldn't do Yamaha even though I wanted cruise.

Now, I will say that the buzz and vibrations killed me on this trip. The first 1000 miles did not reveal them. It killed my bar mounted Garmin and my hands and feet are still numb 24 hours later. So I have to start working through all the vibration troubleshooting. Returned to stock, removed RAM mounts, and checked torques.

Is there a primary vibration culprit when it's hands AND feet?