Race Tech cartridge emulator thoughts, ideas, revelations

[Strawboss]

OK, bear with me, put in emulators, 2 years ago, measured 5 times, got it all correct, 1.1 springs cause thats what everyone else was saying, 2 turns of pre-load on the emulators, straight 15wt fork oil. Hard as a F***ing rock, mirrors were drooping after bumps, mere cement irregularities were jarring the fairing loose, NOT FUN to ride anuymore, parked it and rode the KZ a lot more. Last year there was a thread about emulators, newer ones can be drilled to allow more comprssion damping, blue springs could be installed giving again more damping. Called Race Tech and talked to Louie, he says "1.1 springs?" "really?" "Wow, that must ride harsh huh?" "You should have at least .95's, much better" I said I ride two up and sometimes come close to overloading the bike, he says I still should have gone with the .95's. I told hime about my PVC pipe I use above the springs, long pause, I said what if I cut those down a bit, long pause, he says, uh, yeah, it would put the springs in a more palatable place  regarding harshness. Forks extended, they were right at the top of the forks, about 6 inches and a 16th. I cut off 2 inches and wow, what a difference! I looked everywhere in the instructions, why did I have those sections of pipe to the top of the fork tubes? I still kept the two turns of pre-load on the emulators and got two lines still showing on the factory pre-load for the fork caps. I'm going to try some different lengths of pipe and see whats up.

[George R. Young]

I have 1.0 kg/mm springs, emulators now with softer blue springs, minimal preload, 15W oil. Reasonably comfortable over large bumps, keeps a line in a bumpy curve at touring speeds. A fair amount of dive when braking, not a concern to me.

The length of the spacer tube should only affect ride height, not harshness.

[Roadhound]

It's difficult to use the settings of other riders, we are often looking for different things from our suspension. I've always thought that many who are using the 1.1 and 1.2 Sonic springs are probably over sprung. I run the 1.0 Racetech springs knowing that I run pretty hard in the twisties and I do like a firm front end.

Based on your post I think you would be pleased with a lighter weight spring. Springs are just like tires, bigger is not often better.

[Sparkie]

You need a softer spring rate like a 1.0 kg/mm. You can play with different lengths of preload spacers but that has nothing to do with spring rate, only ride height. The harsh ride can be adjusted with different spring rates, different wt oil, or the settings on the emulators. Thats the beauty of the adjustable emulators. I think you need someone with some suspension background to help dial in your set-up. The pvc spacers you talk about are for dialing the correct amount of sag. The spacer length along with the adjustable caps on top of the fork will accomplish this. Good luck, Mark

[Rick Hall]

Thinking back, many moons ago....

I installed the Race-Tech gold emulators, drilled one new cross hole, and horked out the one stock hole to match, and kept the stock K springs... for a bit. Since the emulators add ~1/2" to the spring stack, I rode with the adjusters all the way out. It was OK, but not the best, and it was a real bear to compress the springs to get the fork cap back on.

Later, I purchased the Race-Tech springs. I'm unsure of the spring rate, but went with recommendations (ie: what they had in stock at the time). I'll assume 1.0 as I ride one up 95% of the time.

These springs were pretty short, but came with a hunk of AL tubing that was to be cut to fill the space up to the fork cap adjusters. I cut them so when the fork was extended, the spring/tube/washer assembly just reached the top of the inner tube.

Note I didn't sweat getting both AL tubes the same length, though they came out within .020" of each other. The fork cap adjuster(s) can be adjusted for differing tube heights.

Also note that you can drill more than two cross holes in the OEM "damper rod", and the instructions more/less say this. So if you bike is like a brick going over bumps, this would be one thing I'd look at. That, and making sure the emulators are facing the right way.

So, I run 15 or 20 weight fork oil (I ain't picky), oil level is somewhere near where it's supposed to be (see ain't picky earlier) Race Tech emulators and springs, and the fork cap adjusters adjusted for sag. Not picky on the sag either, but I have some

Rick

[T Cro ®]

Keep in mind that shocks are designed to work in BOTH directions and with too much spring pre-load while that may reduce sag and brake dive you are also more likely to "top out" meaning that your shock can become fully extended before it reaches the bottom of the pot hole you just zoomed over and that will result in a harsh jarring ride.

Be sure that the damping holes you were supposed to drill out are in fact drilled out at least as large as what RT calls for as the idea is to render them non-functional by allowing them to pass oil freely.

Do not run your oil level on the higher end of the scale as that reduces air space remaining inside the forks and can cause hydraulic lock when compressing them making them go rigid and thus cause a harsh ride. This and too much pre-load will make life a jarring experience.

Try a lighter weight of oil as with Emulators you may no longer need the thicker oil to make the crappy 1960's style of damper rod increase your damping rate.

Keep in mind that front-end tuning is just like a recipe for oatmeal cookies you can add raisins as well as nuts even more or less oatmeal to the cookies till they taste just right to you. It is not rocket science and requires a lot of trial and error to make work for you; you can't just throw in in and call it good cause your going to be sadly let down.

[Strawboss]

Thanks all, yes it rides a bit lower now, and thinner oil is something I'm going to try along with the "blue " emulator springs with the .95's being the last option. I measured 5 times with the oil and measured and drilled the proper size and number of holes in the damper rod. Its just that it rode way too high I think, and thats mentioned in the instructions, I just don't know why I cut them to be even with the tops of the fork tubes. Plus, I live in northern Ohio, most likely THE worst roads I've ever ridden on. With it riding lower it was perceived by me that since it was lower, I must be closer to bottoming out, which isn't the case.

[Strawboss]

I just went to the Race tech web page and the springs for my bike are the .95's. Why the heck did everyone say get the 1.1's here? Well, $114 isn't too much for new springs.

[snarf]

I just went to the Race tech web page and the springs for my bike are the .95's. Why the heck did everyone say get the 1.1's here? Well, $114 isn't too much for new springs.

I bet it was a conspiracy

[Strawboss]

Possible Snarf, I'm researching now , I can't remember where I originally ordered the first pair. Just ordered the new set, and for grins, ordered a set of 040 blue emulator springs.

[Outback_Jon]

I just went to the Race tech web page and the springs for my bike are the .95's. Why the heck did everyone say get the 1.1's here? Well, $114 isn't too much for new springs.

Just a thought, but the 1.1 number is the common suggestion for the Sonic straight-rate springs.  But that is when you're just replacing the springs.  Maybe a bit of confusion?

[George R. Young]

A frugal thought on springs.

If you still have your old stock springs, cut a chunk out of the softer section of each and use it to replace (part or all of) the solid spacer. This will give an overall lower spring rate.

It's the opposite of cutting them shorter to make them stiffer.

The formula for the new overall spring constant is (K1*K2)/(K1 + K2). The softer part of the Concours spring has a spring constant around 0.7 Kg/mm if you use the entire soft part length.

[Daytona_Mike]

Do you have a fork brace?  I run 1.2's and I bottom my suspension out. I know because I have a zip tie on my fork tube and during the last RWTW it was all the all the way to to top.
The Sonic web site calculated 1.2 for my weight. I never heard of .95 on a C10 before. Only 1.1. How much do you weigh? Under 100lbs?

[timsatx]

I think we have to keep in mind that he is using the Emulators and that probably calls for a lighter spring rate. By itself then you might want a heavier one.

[Daytona_Mike]

I think we have to keep in mind that he is using the Emulators and that probably calls for a lighter spring rate. By itself then you might want a heavier one.

Spring rate is the same with or without emulators.  You dont change spring rate because you do or do not run emulators.
I run emulators. I run 20 weight oil  and 3 turns on the stock emulator spring with  2 extra holes drilled in the emulator.
It is  fairly stiff but I need it to be that way.

My point is Strawboss should not have rock solid  suspension. He either installed the emulators upside down or he has a fork brace and bound up the forks or didnt drill the extra holes in the emulsion tube (fork cylinder).

[Centex]

Strawboss, there's obviously a problem in your setup but don't blame it on the fact of the emulators.  Something went wrong in that install if you got immediate bad results.

A suggested sequence for trouble-shooting ....

- First verify that you have a free-moving front suspension (bounce it against the front-brake when at rest for a simple check - it should all slide up/down very smoothly).  If anything is not smooth:

+++ The previous comment about shimming your fork brace is right-on.  I had to shim my fork brace to eliminate gross 'stiction' caused by binding without the shims (that is a huge important check if you run a brace).

+++ Verify that the fork tubes are set to the exact same height in the triple clamps.

+++ If you still having any sort of binding, look to your fork seals.

- Once you have a free-moving suspension, I suggest you check the "sag".  Google "motorcycle sag setting" to find a number of how-to pages.  That will be a best first-step toward confirming that your spring rate is in the correct ball-park for your weight.  Too little sag means too stiff springs and that will result in a harsh ride.  The only fix for this is correct springs ... changing preload (by adjusting the spacer on top of the springs or the fork-top adjuster) affects ride height but not sag.

If everything moves without stiction and you have corrrect sag but the problem persists, then you're back into the forks ...

- Verify oil height - too high will give the result you describe.  I don't mean to insult but you are using real "fork oil", correct?  Motor oil is not a substitute.

- Verify that the damper rods were properly and completly drilled. An aside - there is a chance that metal shavings from this step were not completely flushed-out from the inside of the damper rod and may now be blocking some of the small emulator passages ... not likely that would have been an immediate effect, but maybe

- Go step-by step back through the emulator installation instructions - don't be hung-up on what you did before, try to go at it with an open mind to ensure you did it all correct.


HTH

[Strawboss]

I weigh 210 lbs,I changed the oil in the rear shock at the time of installing the emulators, I run 40lbs in the rear shock with the damping set at #2,I have a fork brace, I measured 5 times the amount of oil and the distance from the top of the tube, 150mm, empty, fully compressed, I drilled the holes exactly as stated in the instructions in the damper rods, the emulators are I believe installed properly with the springs pointing up towards the top of the tubes, the springs are resting on the emulators, there are washers between the springs and spacers and between the springs and the fork caps, I loosened the emulators till the washers on the yellow spring were just touching then, as said in the instructions turned two turns of pre-load onto them, I used straight 20wt Bel-Ray fork oil as stated in instructions, I had 6 inches of 3/4" PVC pipe on top of washer and spring in tubes which brought it up to the top of the tube extended. A little info on Ohio roads, I don't scrape pegs, I don't race, I don't ride two up a whole lot. Roads here are about the worst I've ever seen anywhere in the country, my mirrors droop over a big bump, the fairing shakes in its stays, the main fairing stay bolt has rusty dust around it, its tight but you can tell it shakes around. The bike is basically unridable. Everything on the race tech page calls for .95 springs and 20wt oil with two turns of pre-load with yellow springs. The stock springing is .61, I had 1.1, so, I just about doubled the springing weight. I thought something was up when I went to the nationals in Wisconsin and Vermont loaded up, almost overloaded and it smoothed out somewhat. I cut two inches off the spacers which lowered the ride height, different but not the best. I ordered the .95's and some blue springs for the emulators for grins to give me a bunch of options to play with, although, I really liked Georges suggestion of making spacers of old cut springs which I still have. Thanks all, I still love the bike, the new springs have got to make a difference.We'll see, I keep you all posted, I should get them this coming week, 1/2 hour of work, change the fork oil while I'm at it and take a ride.

[Strawboss]

OK, installed the .95's, changed fork oil, straight 15wt as per manual, yellow springs, two turn of pre-load, 3 lines showing on stock fork pre-load. Vast improvement, better over bumps, still not where I'd like it, I have some blue emulator springs to try.

[Centex]

The blue spring is weaker than the yellow, which allows the valve disks to rise (open) easier on sharp bumps (slightly reduced high-speed compression damping compared to the yellow spring).

If that gets you to a better ride for your case, you may want to drill the two dimples in the valve disk making 4 holes total.  That will reduce the rebound damping allowing quicker suspension recovery on the small sharp bumps (net effect of the two adjustments, all else being equal, is keeping the tire on the pavement on sharp small bumps where the rate of suspension travel is high).

If you don't like the drilled valve disk a replacement pair is only a few bucks.

Then tune the 'low speed circuit' (talking suspension travel speed here, not bike road speed; brake dive is an example of 'low speed' when it comes to suspension travel)with the oil viscosity and height of oil in the fork tube.

[Strawboss]

I have the older style valve disk with no dimples, I asked racc tech about drilling more holes in the disk and they advised not to for me. The ride is better, but not where I'd like it, I am certainly NOT a suspension man. I CANNOT see or feel for the life of me 10mm of pre-load as opposed to 30mm of pre-load. I cannot feel these things others feel when changes are made unless its drastic. A bump is a bump, we got lots of them and all sizes and shapes.