Philips H4 X-treme Vision 100 - worth it? --> Update UPDATED!!!

[martin_14]

Fact #1: I need more light. My eyes are getting strained enough at the office.
Fact #2: TÜV allows very, very little latitude in terms of what's legal and what not, and they do check.

The only (legal) possibility in Germany then is to fit brighter bulbs. I know that they last a lot less and cost 2-3 times more, but I need the improvement and I don't mind changing them twice a year if needed, so I wanted to check with you guys if you have any experience with these type of bulbs. I read in another thread that the do they offer more output, but what about life span? My bike has 50k miles and I changed so far only 1 main bulb with another stock H4, nothing fancy.
Well, to be honest, my dealer did the changing, so here comes the second question: how much of a pain it is to change the H4 on the headlight?
Thanks in advance, Martín

[maxtog]

so I wanted to check with you guys if you have any experience with these type of bulbs.

Yes.  The claims they make about "100% more light" and such is just outright, non-scientific, marketing lies.   I do believe they are better, but if I had to place a number on it, I would say more like 15%.  A lot of it is just an illusion because they dye the glass blue (for the low-beam only) to make it appear to look more like HID.  Now, is it worth the effort and expense?  That depends on who is being asked.  I thought it was a reasonable upgrade, myself.  But I also had low expectations.  I would buy them again.

how much of a pain it is to change the H4 on the headlight?

It is extremely easy and can be done through the dash opening without removing anything.  Supposedly they do have a lower life, but they are cheap enough and easy to replace.  Plus the Concours has dual low-beam bulbs, so if one blows it is not a major issue before you can replace it.

[martin_14]

thanks! 

I just ordered them. They usually cost 19€ each (about 26 USD) but there was an offer in Amazon with only a few boxes (2x pack) left and I grabbed the last one for 21€ (28.60 USD). They should be here on Wednesday and I'll install them right away, but not before a pic of the beam, and another picture after the install as well, so I can compare.

[maxtog]

I just ordered them. They usually cost 19€ each (about 26 USD) but there was an offer in Amazon with only a few boxes (2x pack) left and I grabbed the last one for 21€ (28.60 USD).

Well, $28 is a LOT less than what I paid, so you should be extra happy

They should be here on Wednesday and I'll install them right away, but not before a pic of the beam, and another picture after the install as well, so I can compare.

What I didn't do but should have done was to replace *ONE* of the bulbs.  Then comparison is easy because you can shine on a building and just use a piece of cardboard to cover one, then the other, back and forth.  There is significant beam overlap, so trying to tell without covering one will be difficult or impossible.  Don't let the color temperature fool you   If it does- just switch to high beam for the comparison, since they don't tint that.

[Texas Concours14]

I agree - they are definitely a worthy upgrade. With OEM bulbs I did not feel safe traveling faster than 50-55 mph at night. The H4's seemingly double the light intensity. The process of changing the bulbs is easy, especially if you have Fred Harmon's video instructions to follow.

[stevewfl]

I agree - they are definitely a worthy upgrade. With OEM bulbs I did not feel safe traveling faster than 50-55 mph at night. The H4's seemingly double the light intensity. The process of changing the bulbs is easy, especially if you have Fred Harmon's video instructions to follow.

+1

[B.D.F.]

I agree with you that the percentage stated seems like a true salesman statistic (read: lie) but in this particular case, it is a scientifically quantified, perfectly documented and calculated..... misleading statistic :-)  I cannot remember how it is calculated but the percentage of light output increase is at a long distance and w/in something like 15% of the 'hotspot' of the center of the beam. So in fact, that IS actually doubled in the case of 100% light bulbs ratings but the bulb of course does not put out 100% more light overall.

But to be fair, I have say that the perceived brightness of headlights is suspect at best and downright wrong at worst anyway. We base the 'brightness' on the light reflected to the eye by the surrounding countryside, which is not what we care about in the first place. And in fact, it actually detracts from what we really want, which is downrange illumination. So really good headlights will put a lot of light on top of the road, a long way out, and if there is nothing there there will be no light reflected and we perceive that is 'poor lighting'.

One of problems with HID lighting, especially in non- HID reflectors, is that there is so much light on things like street signs that our down range visibility is actually damaged by our pupils closing from reflected light. I know some highway signs are actually a bit painful as I pass them and that absolutely hurts my real night vision of that forrest- rat standing 400 yards down the road.

Brian

Yes.  The claims they make about "100% more light" and such is just outright, non-scientific, marketing lies.   I do believe they are better, but if I had to place a number on it, I would say more like 15%.  A lot of it is just an illusion because they dye the glass blue (for the low-beam only) to make it appear to look more like HID.  Now, is it worth the effort and expense?  That depends on who is being asked.  I thought it was a reasonable upgrade, myself.  But I also had low expectations.  I would buy them again.

<snip>

[katata1100]

Playing with bulbs is a waste of time. Some have over driven filamits that don't last long. I had a silverstar bulb that gave up the ghost 20 secs before a local sherriff and he pulled me over (he let me ride back home in the dark as I lived about 1/2 mile away from where I got pulled over).
Try this:
Measure the voltage coming out of your bulb plug; you might be surprised.
On my '91 katana 1100, I measured under 10v! The bike had real skinny wire (22g?) and there was a huge drop in voltage. I rigged up some relays and 12g wire (power coming from battery) and with bike running, got a little over 13v at the plug!
This made a for huge, huge increase in light.

[Spanky]

I think you will like them compared to stock. Keep an extra on the bike because they will burn out.

[Texas Concours14]

A real world metric is to drive only only to an internal speed limit such that you can brake to a stop if something appears at the end of your viewing distance at night with the headlights. The OEMs do not project far and I had to use other vehicle lights to "see beyond 55 mph." With the H4 I can go 80 mph at night with no worries about being able to see far enough down field.

[maxtog]

One of problems with HID lighting, especially in non- HID reflectors, is that there is so much light on things like street signs that our down range visibility is actually damaged by our pupils closing from reflected light. I know some highway signs are actually a bit painful as I pass them and that absolutely hurts my real night vision of that forrest- rat standing 400 yards down the road.

Yep.  I am blinded by signs now.  There is a lot more light with the HID conversions, but they are mostly not *USEFUL* light.  This is why I was disappointed with the outcome of the conversion.  Still an improvement, but nowhere near what I had hoped for.  And compared to the G37 HID projectors, it is utter crap.

Someday there should be a professional/quality LED projector setup and I might consider a switch to something like that if it isn't too overly complex.

[Stephen.G.Fiddes]

Yep.  I am blinded by signs now.  There is a lot more light with the HID conversions, but they are mostly not *USEFUL* light.  This is why I was disappointed with the outcome of the conversion.  Still an improvement, but nowhere near what I had hoped for.  And compared to the G37 HID projectors, it is utter crap.

Someday there should be a professional/quality LED projector setup and I might consider a switch to something like that if it isn't too overly complex.

Www.theretrofitsource.com
Www.HIDPlanet.com

[martin_14]

a few comments on the comments here:

- regarding Brian's or Maxtog's comment on the output increase not being 100%, that's difficult to measure for us without the proper equipment. A bulb might put out twice the light, but that light will then have to be perceived by our (human) eyes, which like hearing, is logarithmic, meaning that doubling the output of light will mean a mere 30% increase in the perceived illumination.

- regarding the traffic and other signs reflecting and actually decreasing the actual vision (because the pupil closes when looking at those bright signs): German streets are also called Xmas trees because of the fanatic overuse of signals. This is a corner close to where my girlfriend lives, and it's nothing extraordinary. I've seen much, much worse.

- about keeping a spare: I'll probably keep my stock bulbs as spare  unless I'm so thrilled by the new bulbs that I feel like buying more of them.

- about the quality of the C14's headlights: I think they are great, specially compared with my previous R1200RT, which was down right dangerous to drive at night. But then there's the K1600 GT, which is amazing and the reason why I got spoiled and started feeling "underpowered" light-wise on the Kawasaki.

I've always been tempted to put a pair of NiteCore TM26 or similar and see what's what... Obviously the reflector is totally inappropriate, but still... maybe with a proper switch on the handlebar for temporary activation only...

[Conniesaki]

Just think, I bet someday bikes will have the capability to sense a rectangular object reflecting light back to the rider's eyes above   #    lumens, including identifying which forward sector the object is located in at any given moment, and then the circuitry will briefly reduce the light being emitted in each sector the object passes thru as the bike passes by the reflective object

Maybe auto darkening welding face shield technology could be used.

[Daytona_Mike]

How about someone try these and let us know what you think.
I think with these new bright LEDS  HID may become obsolete. I have been using HID's for a long  but the bulbs do wear out and the ballasts die.
http://tinyurl.com/kghjcxu

[maxtog]

Maybe auto darkening welding face shield technology could be used.

Make it so....I want one

[maxtog]

How about someone try these and let us know what you think.
I think with these new bright LEDS  HID may become obsolete. I have been using HID's for a long  but the bulbs do wear out and the ballasts die

The big problem is not the lamp technology, but the fact that the retro-fits just don't work well in headlights designed to use H4 bulbs.  I am sure there is a good deal of variance from one design to another, but I think what is lacking is the projector technology so the light can be formed and placed better.  Of course LED will eventually replace HID- it has a lot of advantages, the only big three disadvantages have been brightness (which is mostly overcome now), price (which is quickly becoming a non-issue), and heat management (which is still a big one).

[Daytona_Mike]

The big problem is not the lamp technology, but the fact that the retro-fits just don't work well in headlights designed to use H4 bulbs.  I am sure there is a good deal of variance from one design to another, but I think what is lacking is the projector technology so the light can be formed and placed better.  Of course LED will eventually replace HID- it has a lot of advantages, the only big three disadvantages have been brightness (which is mostly overcome now), price (which is quickly becoming a non-issue), and heat management (which is still a big one).

They came today. I got them at a good price.  ~$55 
Now which bike- C14 or the C10 should I try these on?

[omcrider]

Why the C14 of course! 

[stevewfl]

They came today. I got them at a good price.  ~$55 
Now which bike- C14 or the C10 should I try these on?

hopefully the C14~ 

hope they work out.  curious to know if the 2400 lumens will be properly dispersed from our C14 reflector
if the LED heat is going to be an issue
if the 6000 is really 6000
and most importantly if you're happy with them on the C14.

I've been to CREE's campus at Research Triangle Park in Raleigh, NC. They're awesome!