Rear Brake Pedal

[sherob]

Soooo... do you use your front brake on a slooooow turn in a parking lot with your handlebars full locked? 

Great article about brake usage here... LOL!!!

http://www.sportrider.com/riding_tips/146_1001_using_rear_brake/index.html

[Kazairl]

Only once. That was painful.

[Sea Level]

Soooo... do you use your front brake on a slooooow turn in a parking lot with your handlebars full locked? 

On the C14 ABS you do, whether you want to or not, assuming you need braking at all. Of course, it's best to not need any braking, however I have found that if I use the rear brake pedal for speed control when making those slow parking lot turns, even though one of the front brakes is also automatically being applied, it doesn't have that tendency to dump like a conventional braking system would using the front brakes. Nicely balanced, really, and if you feel the bike trying to fall over, straightening the turn a little and adding a touch of power stands it right back up.

[stevewfl]

I love the C14 ABS, linked brakes, ECO and traction control! (almost as much as KiPass) 

[Conrad]

On the C14 ABS with traction control you do, whether you want to or not, assuming you need braking at all. Of course, it's best to not need any braking, however I have found that if I use the rear brake pedal for speed control when making those slow parking lot turns, even though one of the front brakes is also automatically being applied, it doesn't have that tendency to dump like a conventional braking system would using the front brakes. Nicely balanced, really, and if you feel the bike trying to fall over, straightening the turn a little and adding a touch of power stands it right back up.

Fixed it for you. Some have a '08/'09 ABS without those pesky linked brakes.

[Sea Level]

Fixed it for you. Some have a '08/'09 ABS without those pesky linked brakes.

Thankee.

I'm still on the fence a bit on the linked brakes, but the more I ride with them, the more I like them.

[Conrad]

Thankee.

I'm still on the fence a bit on the linked brakes, but the more I ride with them, the more I like them.

I've never ridden a bike with them, I'd like to though.

[maxtog]

I think I've asked before in the other forum and was answered that the C14 will slide out on the front before doing a stoppie (I wouldn't know with the ABS and traction control) due to its weight.  So yes the rear brake has to be used.

That is kinda part of my point.  On my 2011 (ABS/TC), there is no way to NOT use the rear brake, since they are linked.

[maxtog]

Soooo... do you use your front brake on a slooooow turn in a parking lot with your handlebars full locked? 

Just like my previous post- on a 2010/2011 Concours, you have no choice.  It doesn't matter which brake you use, you will *always* be using both.  Of course, the balance is different depending on which you are pressing and what mode you are in (heavy or moderate linking).

[Tim]

I'd have to agree, on both counts. Every MC class that I've ever taken teaches using both brakes. I use both equally. Of course the front brake supplies the most stopping power hands down but the rear has it's place too. I use it to set up corners all the time, either trail braking or just to scrub off a lil speed before entering the corner.

This is how I was trained back in the stone ages. I use the back to set up for turns and scrub speed a little when needed. THe front has the stopping power. Back in the days of Triples and Z-1's the back brake was used to bring the front end back down. You used to have to hang over the front end to get a good launch on a triple and it did not matter what size it was.

[BudCallaghan]

Quoting maxtog, "Well, I know there are some good uses for it, but I was actually trained to NOT use the rear brake, for safety."  Whoever trained you didn't know much and contributed to the "blind leading the blind" axiom.  I started riding motorcycles when I was 14 and am still riding at 70.  For all of those 56 years it has been both on the street and in the dirt.  When I started there were no dirt bikes, you created a dirt bike by modifying a street bike.  My first was a '55 BSA Gold Star.  I still ride my far more modern thumper in the mountains and one of my street bikes whenever I have someplace to go.  I have racked up beau-coup miles and each and every one of them included use of both brakes.  I find it amazing that so many of you think that use of the rear brake is a superfluous effort.  The mention of using the rear for better control at parking lot speeds is a perfect example of useful rear only use.  There are numerous situations where a proper modulation of both brakes makes for a far more pleasant and much safer riding experience.  My C14 is an '09 model with ABS.  The first time I rode it I realized that the rear brake was just about useless at parking lot speed as it had no feel at the lever.  I solved that problem by removing the return spring that attaches to the pedal itself.  This spring is not necessary as the return spring in the master cylinder is plenty strong enough to return the pedal to its normal position.  With the external spring removed the lever pressure could be discerned with the foot and I then knew how much brake I was applying.  I strongly suggest that this unnecessary and potentially dangerous spring be removed so the rider can tell how much pressure he is applying with the foot.  Try it, if you disagree you can always put the damn thing back on the bike.     

[CrashKLRtoConnie]

Bud

My 2008 rear brake was almost dead .. then I bled both of the rear calipers drain screws .. the the rear brake became the un dead (Still mostly dead) .. but at least a little better than pre bleed.

Thanks for the idea on the spring, I plan to check it out when I have the time.

Brent

[stevewfl]

Quoting maxtog, "Well, I know there are some good uses for it, but I was actually trained to NOT use the rear brake, for safety."  Whoever trained you didn't know much and contributed to the "blind leading the blind" axiom.  I started riding motorcycles when I was 14 and am still riding at 70.  For all of those 56 years it has been both on the street and in the dirt.  When I started there were no dirt bikes, you created a dirt bike by modifying a street bike.  My first was a '55 BSA Gold Star.  I still ride my far more modern thumper in the mountains and one of my street bikes whenever I have someplace to go.  I have racked up beau-coup miles and each and every one of them included use of both brakes.  I find it amazing that so many of you think that use of the rear brake is a superfluous effort.  The mention of using the rear for better control at parking lot speeds is a perfect example of useful rear only use.  There are numerous situations where a proper modulation of both brakes makes for a far more pleasant and much safer riding experience.  My C14 is an '09 model with ABS.  The first time I rode it I realized that the rear brake was just about useless at parking lot speed as it had no feel at the lever.  I solved that problem by removing the return spring that attaches to the pedal itself.  This spring is not necessary as the return spring in the master cylinder is plenty strong enough to return the pedal to its normal position.  With the external spring removed the lever pressure could be discerned with the foot and I then knew how much brake I was applying.  I strongly suggest that this unnecessary and potentially dangerous spring be removed so the rider can tell how much pressure he is applying with the foot.  Try it, if you disagree you can always put the damn thing back on the bike.   

Whoever the trainer was is one unsafe mo-fo that misses out on 10-15% of his/her bike's braking abilities geez

[martin_14]

With the external spring removed the lever pressure could be discerned with the foot and I then knew how much brake I was applying.  I strongly suggest that this unnecessary and potentially dangerous spring be removed so the rider can tell how much pressure he is applying with the foot.  Try it, if you disagree you can always put the damn thing back on the bike.   

Bud, would you mind posting a picture or something about this spring? I am ignorant (I don't know what spring you mean) and lazy (I could go to the parking and look for it  ).
Thanks in advance!

[BudCallaghan]

Sorry Martin, you're just going to have to get off your lazy ass and go out and look for it.  I just got up off mine to go out to my shop to verify my memory of the spring's exact location.  In order to take a picture of the spring I would need to put it back on my bike.  That is not going to happen because the brake pedal must be removed to remove or replace the spring.  It's behind the brake pedal.  There are two springs, one is very small and operates the brake light switch and the one in question is much larger and is a brake pedal return spring.  Because of it, you have to apply so much pressure with your foot that you cannot tell when the brake is actually being applied to the caliper and rotor.  Because of this I damn near tipped the bike over in a parking lot at less than walking speed because I could not properly modulate the pressure being applied to the brake due to the lack of feel.  This happened when the bike was less than an hour in my possession and that damn spring was removed within an hour of my arriving home.  It's easy to see and not at all difficult to remove or replace.  I am living proof that any ass can do it.   

[RIP50AK]

Since starting riding in 1965 my 2011 Connie is the first bike I have had with ABS or linked brakes. All my earlier experience has trained me to use both brakes and I would be hard pressed now to rely only on the front. I have been in numerous situations where using the front brake only would be bad news, like going down a step incline with a turn at the bottom on a wet or slippery surface. So far I like the brakes on the Connie.

[Conrad]

Sorry Martin, you're just going to have to get off your lazy ass and go out and look for it.  I just got up off mine to go out to my shop to verify my memory of the spring's exact location.  In order to take a picture of the spring I would need to put it back on my bike.  That is not going to happen because the brake pedal must be removed to remove or replace the spring.  It's behind the brake pedal.  There are two springs, one is very small and operates the brake light switch and the one in question is much larger and is a brake pedal return spring.  Because of it, you have to apply so much pressure with your foot that you cannot tell when the brake is actually being applied to the caliper and rotor.  Because of this I damn near tipped the bike over in a parking lot at less than walking speed because I could not properly modulate the pressure being applied to the brake due to the lack of feel.  This happened when the bike was less than an hour in my possession and that damn spring was removed within an hour of my arriving home.  It's easy to see and not at all difficult to remove or replace.  I am living proof that any ass can do it.

You're a funny guy Bud, I like that.   

[martin_14]

Sorry Martin, you're just going to have to get off your lazy ass and go out and look for it.

fair enough...

[Mad River Marc]

That is kinda part of my point.  On my 2011 (ABS/TC), there is no way to NOT use the rear brake, since they are linked.

Actually not 100% true,  from what I have read, there is NO linking of the brakes below 12mph and I believe this is controlled by the ECU (Which leads to the questin of can it be hacked and programmed to NOT link brakes at all)

I've used my rear in slow parking lot maneuvers without an issue, and I prefer to use both in a hard stop (it's how I was trained) but given the nasty "fluctuations" that the 10+ lever and pedals will experience when both are actuated hard, I find myself only using the front in order to avoid any unnecessary jerking motions.... (IMHO as much as I love my 2010 C-14, I HATE the brakes....)

[Barry]

FWIW....

I religiously use both brakes on the street (as practice for that panic stop I'm gonna' have to make).  Just good habit.

At very low speed (parking lot, and full lock maneuvers) I use rear only.

Sometimes to just scrub some wee speed, I'll feather the rear.  I like the C14 not so powerful rear brake.

On track on my supermoto...

I can back it in quite nicely w/out rear brake.  I've recently taken to riding it more with no rear brake under hard braking, so I tend to brake more (and harder) with the front, since the rear is sticking a little more.  I noticed with less front brake action, and more rear applied, the bike wanted to get way more sideways and was less controllable.  Worse if I added more front brake.  On the same bike I would ride the same corner, no rear, and could actually slow harder/faster, and keep the rear more under control.

I'm gonna' have to work more on no rear brake on the track.

On my TTR125 indoor bike, I can rotate the dog **** out of it, and the rear helps a lot as there is no slipper in that bike, and I get chatter out of the rear if I hamfist the clutch.  Application of rear brake seems to lessen than.

YMMV,
Barry