Smashed, broken transponder fob

[jdaugh]

2010 Concours 14 with about 32k miles, purchased around 20k miles. I think I'm the 3rd owner. The guy I bought it from at 20k miles gave me only one transponder. A couple days ago, I set it on the passenger seat as we were getting ready to go. I guess it slipped off to the left side and got stuck on the left saddlebag before my girl got on, then fell onto the road about a quarter-mile later and got run over. I found 7 pieces: front cover, rubber gasket, circuit board, battery, thin metal battery holder, main internal plastic plate, back plastic cover. The mechanical key was not in it at the time, it was in the saddlebag lock where it usually stays.

I was able to bend the plastic pieces back enough to get the entire thing back together. The circuit board appears undamaged. The battery shows signs of impact (small dents), but I was hoping to just use the passive feature for right now anyway. No luck so far. I have consulted the manual and I believe I understand the directions: remove mechanical key in transponder and place the resulting indent over the little nub right "above" the stove key. Hold there for 2 seconds, then I should be able to depress the stove key briefly and turn the key as usual. I also tried depressing the stove key for 2 seconds.

Ideally of course I'd like to have the transponder fully operational again (5 feet working range), but I thought the closer proximity feature would be more likely to still work if anything is still going to work, since it does not rely on a battery at all.

If neither of those goals are attainable, the 3rd-best solution would be to get a new transponder. But I guess an existing transponder or fob is needed to do that, or else an entire new ECU is needed (that would be the 4th-best solution).

Please let me know if you have any suggestions or expert knowledge that might help. I got the bike home but am dead in the water :/

p.s. I had never tried the close-proximity method before. I have had a couple low-battery messages but I replaced it quickly enough that it never died. So I can't be as confident that it ever worked/that I am doing it correctly now.

Oh and I'll try to get the pictures up here in a minute. Thank you in advance!

[jdaugh]

Unfortunately, I was low on fuel at the time so I didn't see the "NO TRANSPONDER" message as soon as I might have otherwise. By the time I found it, it had been smashed.

This picture attachment shows 6 pieces because the two back plastic pieces are already snapped together.

[maxtog]

I was hoping to just use the passive feature for right now anyway. No luck so far. I have consulted the manual and I believe I understand the directions: remove mechanical key in transponder and place the resulting indent over the little nub right "above" the stove key. Hold there for 2 seconds, then I should be able to depress the stove key briefly and turn the key as usual. I also tried depressing the stove key for 2 seconds.

I believe you must also continue to hold the FOB in [the correct] place when you depress the knob.

The passive component doesn't have any connections and is very rugged.  I could be surprised if it didn't still work, although I suppose it is possible it could be damaged or missing.  I can't tell for sure from your photo if it is still in place, but it looks like it is missing.  I seem to remember it being a small, black, rectangle-like box near the end of the active fob.  You can see the indent in the plastic where it lives; seems to be empty in the photo (could be in the other shell half?)  If could have been ejected out of the plastic holder when it was smashed open.

When I use passive, it is almost always with the passive-only (small) fob and not the active (larger) fob.  So I have less experience doing it.  I put the fob in front of the nub.  It can be tricky- it really has almost zero range and I rarely get it to work the first few times.  I would try it a few more times.

Also, have you tried a new battery?  Certainly worth a try to see if the active part still works.

You shouldn't EVER be operating the bike if you only have a single FOB.  That is extremely dangerous.  If the one remaining FOB is lost, trying to get the bike operational again is a nightmare.

Your experience is why I also recommend to everyone that the active fob is kept in a zippered, inside-pocket of the riding jacket and never removed from there.

[Freddy]

Do as  Max says.  If all that fails read thru this and you will find a solution other than a new ECU etc etc.

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24235.15

https://www.carmousa.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4102_4105&pg=categories&zenid=ai9utdd27l2pbo843g8lqarlp3

They are in Holland.


https://www.ostanlock.com.au/motorcycle-locksmith/

They are in Australia.

Both have done the fix successfully and have happy customers.  Both require the ign switch assembly (and KIPASS ECU too iirc) to create a new passive key.

The passive chip is here by the way - circled in red.

[jdaugh]

THANK YOU! The passive chip is indeed missing. I'll return the site and look for it. Maybe a rolling magnet will help. I will also try a new battery for the active part. Thank you again!

If I can get the passive part and/or restore the active part, I will follow advice and get a secondary. Please share any tips about the cheapest way to go about that. In Florida, US.

[kzz1king]

Will a magnet mess with the chip?

[Freddy]

Please share any tips about the cheapest way to go about that.

If you are lucky enuff to find the chip, firstly ensure it works as it should then take it to a locksmith who can clone it.

[maxtog]

Will a magnet mess with the chip?

Very unlikely.
But it also is probably not ferric enough for a magnet to pick it up.  Will have to find it visually.

[jdaugh]

I tried a magnet and a metal detector but was unable to find the tiny passive chip. A new battery has not helped. The circuit board looks to be in decent shape, it seems like it should still work...

[Freddy]

These 2 spots where the contacts touch can get worn or corroded.  Clean those contacts and check it all over with a magnifier and multimeter. 

[maxtog]

I tried a magnet and a metal detector but was unable to find the tiny passive chip. A new battery has not helped. The circuit board looks to be in decent shape, it seems like it should still work...

There is very little metal inside the passive assembly.

If the board was stressed it could have damaged a trace or popped one of the components off its solder pad.  There is a chance the board could be repaired by reflowing the solder joints and checking the traces for continuity.  If you know someone who is into electronics, he/she might be able to help.

[jdaugh]

Does anyone know if the "active" function of the transponder can still operate if the little "passive" chip goes missing, as mine has? Anyone willing to remove their passive chip from the transponder fob and see if their bike still starts? : ))

[maxtog]

Does anyone know if the "active" function of the transponder can still operate if the little "passive" chip goes missing, as mine has?

Yes.  They are completely unrelated to each other.

[Freddy]

What he said ^

[jdaugh]

Thank you, that is reassuring. And it mirrors the response I got from Kawasaki:

"Thank you for contacting Kawasaki Customer Support. Yes, the active portion can work if the passive chip is lost. If the fob no longer works then the fob and the ECU will have to be replaced. Please don't hesitate to contact us if we can be of further service.

Our website - www.kawasaki.com - has a great deal of product and owner information you might find useful.

Regards,
Megan Hartsel
Customer Care Specialist"

Here is the message I had sent:

"Owner of 2010 Concours 14 abs motorcycle. I was only given one transponder/fob when I bought the bike a few years ago. It was broken and the passive chip was lost. The active section/circuit board appears intact but bike will not start. I have been told that it will cost about $2000 to be able to start the bike again. Please help. Is there even a chance that the active portion can work if the passive chip is lost?"

[jdaugh]

So, I'd like to try to fix the transponder. How do I go about "checking for continuity"? The contacts certainly look clean. I suppose I could hit them with sandpaper?

[Freddy]

Not sandpaper - eraser or cotton bud with alcohol.  I had a problem with my fob a few years ago - it stopped working.  It had given the No Transponder; message a few times while riding.  I found that if I squeezed the fob while riding the message would go away temporarily.  Eventually that didn't help and I had you use the passive function to start the bike.  I took it to an electronics tech who examined the circuit board under magnification.  He found a crack where one of the transistors (0.8mm square) was soldered.  He ordered a new transistor, 200 on a strip actually, and soldered in a new one.  Been perfect ever since.

That may work for you.  If not, contact one of the two m/cycle lock specialists show in reply 3 who will be able to get you going for a few hundred $ rather than a coupla 3 thou.

[jdaugh]

Freddy, would you please give me contact info for the tech who fixed your transponder?

I found a guy willing to transfer the chips from my circuit board to the circuit board of a new fob (or a used one that is in functioning condition). If I could get a fob cheap enough this would be worth a try. Otherwise, the CARMO route seems to be best ($350).

Though, I don't yet understand how to get them the module they need. Apparently a couple rivets need to be drilled out. But I'm unclear on where to begin.

I still wish the fob I have could be repaired somehow. That would just be dandy.

[Freddy]

No JD - I'm in Australia and his shop got burnt down a year or so ago.   

[jdaugh]

a HUGE shout-out to lather who replied in this thread: http://zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24235.new#new

He suggested I talk to Chris at Short Tronics in MN. I told Chris that my 2010 bike's fob got run over, but the circuit board looked fine to the naked eye. He suggested moving the main chip to the circuit board of a new fob, or a used one known to be working. Lather happened to have an old 2008 fob he wasn't using!!!

IT WORKED.

The 2008 transponder part number is different from my 2010, but the mitsubishi number at the bottom of the circuit board matched, and everything else seemed identical. And it worked.

THANK YOU lather and also everyone who contributed info.

Now I am wondering if I can get the passive chip from that 2008 fob "paired" to my bike so I have a backup. I know ID codes are needed to do this with the active transponder, but what about the passive one?

The passive chip in my 2010 must have popped out and I couldn't find it on the side of the road. So I have no backup currently.