Removing the secondary flies-Question

[maxtog]

That's what 4th is four. 

Sometimes.... but generally I am just not that good

[maxtog]

According to this video, the signal is sent to all three items at the same time....although I'm sure the whole thing was simplified for our viewing pleasure and understanding...lol.

1) Neat video!  I haven't seen that one before.

2) They are probably simplifying it, as you say.

3) Here is the most important thing- they specifically say "And sub-throttle valves [secondary butterflies] are used to control airflow, the key to ensuring smooth operation"

[gPink]

According to this video, the signal is sent to all three items at the same time....although I'm sure the whole thing was simplified for our viewing pleasure and understanding...lol.

Kawasaki GTR1400 traction control explained

This lends some credibility to Martin's thought that the secondaries are closed to prevent an upsetting surge of power when the TC event is over.

[jimmymac]

This lends some credibility to Martin's thought that the secondaries are closed to prevent an upsetting surge of power when the TC event is over.

The flies exist on the ZX14's and Connies without TC as well.

They wanted 145 RWHP as smooth as you could imagine. And delivered. But getting there was a bit subdued. Smooth, but kinda weak. Both the ZX14
and Connie were a bit weak in the basement. At least compared to my ZZR1200. Removing the secondary throttle bodys fixed that issue.

[tomp]

At least compared to my ZZR1200.

+1 on the ZZR1200.  Basically it is three bikes in one.  Idle to around 3500RPM, a nice town bike.  3500-6000 RPM, it is now a fast sportbike.  6000 to red line, it is a screaming MF of a motorcycle.  Just hanging on for dear life.  I liked all three bikes, but knew I was either going to lose my license or my life, so I traded it for a KLR, with 36 real HP.  Fun, but I went back to the C14 for that illusive feeling of neck snapping acceleration with a simple twist of the wrist. 

[maxtog]

The flies exist on the ZX14's and Connies without TC as well.

I believe the secondary butterflies were added primarily for emissions control.

[gPink]

I believe the secondary butterflies were added primarily for emissions control.

Why?

[VirginiaJim]

Well that made me to do this...

Tim Allen's Home Improvement Grunt

[Rembrant]

Why?

I believe the earlier C14 reviews, as well as other models with secondary butterflies, indicated that they were to improve drivability and for smoother power delivery in the lower RPM range. I could be wrong, but I recall hearing that in a video somewhere along the way.

Rem

[gPink]

I believe the earlier C14 reviews, as well as other models with secondary butterflies, indicated that they were to improve drivability and for smoother power delivery in the lower RPM range. I could be wrong, but I recall hearing that in a video somewhere along the way.

Rem

meh, we can get that with the secret throttle handshake.

[B.D.F.]

Hmmmmm- two thoughts. That's not a handshake. And that's not a throttle.

 

Brian

meh, we can get that with the secret throttle handshake.

[B.D.F.]

I actually heard one time (at band camp) that they were there to reduce overall noise signature. At first I thought that ridiculous but after removing the 'flies from my own bike, I did notice a very impressive increase in intake noise. Combined with the overall increase in noise that comes with greater power production, it could make a lot of white noise that would show up immediately in a noise test. ??

Of course the problem with what we are told is that that information comes from "sales" and does not really reflect anything real. They just put the best possible spin on it and send it out the door- just like we need premium fuel due to the VVT on the bike- ridiculous but it makes a good 'sound bite'.

Brian

I believe the earlier C14 reviews, as well as other models with secondary butterflies, indicated that they were to improve drivability and for smoother power delivery in the lower RPM range. I could be wrong, but I recall hearing that in a video somewhere along the way.

Rem

[tomp]

.just like we need premium fuel due to the VVT on the bike- ridiculous but it makes a good 'sound bite'.

Brian

Does the bike really need 91+ octane, as the little sticker says, or will 87 or 89 work as well?  Oh, what instrument did you play at band camp?

[gPink]

Does the bike really need 91+ octane, as the little sticker says, or will 87 or 89 work as well?  Oh, what instrument did you play at band camp?

see reply #110 

[tomp]

see reply #110 

The two schools of thought part?   At least I hope that's what you mean, as my throttle stays away from the gas tank.  The octane was at least 110, before that certain surgury 25 years ago, now 0...

[AlbertaDoug]

Hmmmmm- two thoughts. That's not a handshake. And that's not a throttle.

 

Brian

Re: Trying to narrow down an air/fuel issue... (SOLVED! - TPS Recalibration)
« Reply #191 on: Today at 08:18:30 am »
Quote
Quote from: B.D.F. on Today at 08:12:45 am
We're gonna' need a bigger pole....

Brian

I believe most here would like a bigger pole...

The two schools of thought part?   At least I hope that's what you mean, as my throttle stays away from the gas tank.  The octane was at least 110, before that certain surgury 25 years ago, now 0...

Now I have to clean the coffee up I spit everywhere.

[VirginiaJim]

Happens a lot around here...spitting out of drinks involuntarily.

[maxtog]

I actually heard one time (at band camp) that they were there to reduce overall noise signature. At first I thought that ridiculous but after removing the 'flies from my own bike, I did notice a very impressive increase in intake noise.

After the Ghul flash, I also noticed the bike was louder.  Never mentioned it because I thought maybe it was just my imagination or placebo or something.

Anyway, it could very well be there are several reasons for the secondary butterflies:  Choking/smoothing/taming power delivery (mostly by limiting power on takeoffs), emissions control (by limiting power and preventing real full throttle openings at lower/mid RPM), fuel economy (follows with previous), and noise control (mostly follows with previous, unless there is some fancy airflow/volumetric type explanation)... and then on the gen2, as part of the traction control (limiting power and/or smoothing out reduction and reapplication of power before/after an event).

[B.D.F.]

I was astounded at the increase in general or 'white' noise after removing the 'flies from my bike. And all of it is directed right at the rider's head too. I mentioned this to a rep. from Kawasaki once and he said that that was why they were there in the first place- to reduce the overall noise signature from the bike for EPA testing. And of course not just the intake tract noise but by reducing power output, they indirectly reduce exhaust and overall engine noise as well. That information did not come from a source I am absolutely confident would know but it sure seemed reasonable to me.

Passing gov't regulations is not a matter of Pass / Fail but rather touching on many points and averages in testing. It is like fleet mileage averages; part of the need for Fiestas is F450 trucks....

Brian

After the Ghul flash, I also noticed the bike was louder.  Never mentioned it because I thought maybe it was just my imagination or placebo or something.

Anyway, it could very well be there are several reasons for the secondary butterflies:  Choking/smoothing/taming power delivery (mostly by limiting power on takeoffs), emissions control (by limiting power and preventing real full throttle openings at lower/mid RPM), fuel economy (follows with previous), and noise control (mostly follows with previous, unless there is some fancy airflow/volumetric type explanation)... and then on the gen2, as part of the traction control (limiting power and/or smoothing out reduction and reapplication of power before/after an event).