Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: SmokinRZ on October 13, 2019, 10:00:13 PM
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Does anyone lease find the clutch pull a little hard? When taking multi-day trips I've started having problems with my fingers getting sore. I kinda cup them around the clutch and pull my arm back for relief. I have flushed all systems a couple of years ago and I don't think any thing is wrong with the bike, just seems a little harder than my old C10. I might try some of those knock off levers on ebay.
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Hmm, it is a bit heavy... but it is also a huge engine. I don't use the clutch for most upshifting, mostly downshifting. At lights I almost always wait in neutral.
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In the last Concourier there is an article titled Ease the Squeeze.
It sez most riders don't ever remove the pivot pin to clean and lubricate it.
Have you tried that?
Ride safe, Ted
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Sounds like you never pulled a clutch lever on a cable actuated clutch bike... ::) ::) ::) ::)
lube the pivot pin.
and exercise your hand a bit.
(https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/6261/6261111cv11d.jpg;maxHeight=640;maxWidth=550)
just ride more.
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I will pull the pivot bolt and lube that. I think the clamping force required for a 1400 is the issue and me getting older. It is only an issue after several hours on back roads, just seems harder than my C10 which wasn't exactly easy. When maintained properly, a cable actuated clutch can be quit nice. But yeah I get it, most are not maintained.
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When maintained properly, a cable actuated clutch can be quit nice. But yeah I get it, most are not maintained.
You would probably be unhappy with a cable-driven clutch on the C14. A large, powerful engine also requires a large, powerful clutch/spring, and it is a good distance to travel, meaning more friction... hydraulics are better for such a situation. A cable would likely be harder to pull and would require a lot of travel, and lots of regular adjustment (and more difficult maintenance). I think Kawasaki made the right choice.
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My clutch cable pull on the Indian (much larger bike than the C14) is about the same...
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Nobody cares about your farm implement Indian.
We're talking performance bikes here, not hit and miss engines from the teens. ::)
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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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My old RT had one of these & it worked like a dream. Doesn't seem like it should disengage/engage properly but it did. It was stop & go across the bridge into Canada & saved my left hand from falling off.
http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/howto/clutch.html (http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/howto/clutch.html)
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My old RT had one of these & it worked like a dream. Doesn't seem like it should disengage/engage properly but it did. It was stop & go across the bridge into Canada & saved my left hand from falling off.
http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/howto/clutch.html (http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/howto/clutch.html)
"Add the "Easy Clutch" to your classic and vintage BMW and it lessens the force required to pull the clutch lever. The effort required to operate the clutch is less than half of the stock setup!"
Physics :) Their statement is not actually fully accurate (by wording and by omission). The amount of effort (work) is the same before and after the modification. The work is pressure/force over distance. What they are doing is exactly what any pulley does- it reduces the amount of force, but you have to apply that force over more distance. So what this means is to halve the amount of force of the clutch, you must pull it twice as far each time. A good comparison is lifting a 10 pound weight 10 times is the same amount of effort as lifting a 20 pound weight 5 times.
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silly stuff...
I don't really think that effort "explanation" really is right either...
I guess that's why I use small glasses when I drink beer.. reduces my "lift effort"..
anyways, a "single pully does not reduce effort.. just changes the direction of the pull... E=W
in order to "reduce" effort" a second pully must be added into the equation, and there in lies the "reduction", but again, some effort is lost due to friction on the pullies..
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pulleys-d_1297.html (https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pulleys-d_1297.html)
what is being seen in that BMW farkle, is not really due to the directional change, as much as because of the "lever" principle, based on the actual "diameter" of said chain gear ; which does give specific advantage of the "lever" due to it's "distance from the rotational axis"
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a "single pully does not reduce effort.. just changes the direction of the pull...
True, I should have said "pulley system"
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also, on this same lever thing, and owning an old KZ, with a cable clutch, I'll note that the "actuator" on that bike does this exact thing....
The cable end terminates on a sort of "disk", about 2" in diameter, and when the cable is pulled, the disk rotates; the disk is attached to a "helical" (i.e. thread type, here again, a "thread" is just an adaptation of an "inclined plane", wrapped around a central axis) and when the disk rotates, the thread causes a change in direction along "IT's" axis, turning rotation force, into linear force, pushing on the rod to press the spring loaded clutch disc.
soooo.. the larger the actual "pully" diameter you have, given friction free movement, the less effort needs to be applied to the lever (that imaginary line from the center of the pully, to it's outer diameter), and less pull distance as a result, with a greater outcome of "work performed" by the "effort".
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soooo.. the larger the actual "pully" diameter you have, given friction free movement, the less effort needs to be applied to the lever (that imaginary line from the center of the pully, to it's outer diameter), and less pull distance as a result, with a greater outcome of "work performed" by the "effort".
Unless I just misread what you wrote, that is impossible. It violates physics. The amount of work/energy required to activate the clutch is a constant. If it requires X newton meters, then that is the work. You can't change total work needed with pullies, discs, cables, levers, gears, anything. You can change the distance/motion, which will inversely affect the effort, or vice versa.
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Ya'll 2 bulls are just butting heads, and getting way to deep.
The system makes it easier to pull in the clutch lever.
E'nuf sed.. :thumbs:
Ride safe, Ted
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My old RT had one of these & it worked like a dream. Doesn't seem like it should disengage/engage properly but it did. It was stop & go across the bridge into Canada & saved my left hand from falling off.
http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/howto/clutch.html (http://www.benchmarkworks.com/articles/howto/clutch.html)
;D I just replaced the cable operated clutch on my R1100GS and it is smooth as butter with easy pull. The last big Japanese bike I had with a cable was a CBR1000RR and it seemed easier. It is really only noticeable on long days.
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Update: I took the lever off and cleaned and greased all the pivot points. I moved the master cylinder as far inboard in the handlebar as much as possible so that I was reaching the end of the lever. Then I installed those cheap Ebay pazzo knock off levers. It is noticeably better now.
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You could try learning how to do clutchless shifting. I do that all the time, There are many videos on utube to show you how. The connie does it very well. I use it mostly upshifting.
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Why?
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Quick shifter......
Just gonna leave that there...... :rotflmao: :chugbeer:
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I've actually found quick shifting like that to be smoother than using the clutch upshifting. Haven't really tried that on the Indian.
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I've actually found quick shifting like that to be smoother than using the clutch upshifting. Haven't really tried that on the Indian.
2 wheeled farm implements have straight cut gears for sure engagement. They don't care about the extra noise when you're bailing hay and ****.
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"Add the "Easy Clutch" to your classic and vintage BMW and it lessens the force required to pull the clutch lever. The effort required to operate the clutch is less than half of the stock setup!"
Physics :) Their statement is not actually fully accurate (by wording and by omission). The amount of effort (work) is the same before and after the modification. The work is pressure/force over distance. What they are doing is exactly what any pulley does- it reduces the amount of force, but you have to apply that force over more distance. So what this means is to halve the amount of force of the clutch, you must pull it twice as far each time. A good comparison is lifting a 10 pound weight 10 times is the same amount of effort as lifting a 20 pound weight 5 times.
silly stuff...
I don't really think that effort "explanation" really is right either...
I guess that's why I use small glasses when I drink beer.. reduces my "lift effort"..
anyways, a "single pully does not reduce effort.. just changes the direction of the pull... E=W
in order to "reduce" effort" a second pully must be added into the equation, and there in lies the "reduction", but again, some effort is lost due to friction on the pullies..
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pulleys-d_1297.html (https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pulleys-d_1297.html)
what is being seen in that BMW farkle, is not really due to the directional change, as much as because of the "lever" principle, based on the actual "diameter" of said chain gear ; which does give specific advantage of the "lever" due to it's "distance from the rotational axis"
Ahhh look again guys...isn't the BMW device shown a movable pulley..which according to the reference you provided.....
With a single moveable pulley the effort force is half (or more due to efficiency loss) of the load.
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2 wheeled farm implements have straight cut gears for sure engagement. They don't care about the extra noise when you're bailing hay and ****.
The shifting gears in my C14 are straight cut, doesn't mean I'd ever own an fringed Indian, but I'm missing your point. Unless it was just to compare V'Jim's
ride to a hay bailer, in which case I'm good. :thumbs:
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Ahhh look again guys...isn't the BMW device shown a movable pulley..which according to the reference you provided.....
That's why I said it doesn't seem like it should work as good as it does. The pulley moves & the clutch only moves 1/2 the distance to engage/disengage.
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I've actually found quick shifting like that to be smoother than using the clutch upshifting. Haven't really tried that on the Indian.
Can't do it 1-2, but from there on, I clutchless upshift about 90% of the time. Clutchless DOWNshifting is a lot more difficult, and I rarely do that.
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That's why I said it doesn't seem like it should work as good as it does. The pulley moves & the clutch only moves 1/2 the distance to engage/disengage.
I admit, I didn't actually look at the "Install" instructions, and din't see that the "pullygear' was floating..
so Yes... it does make for 1/2 effort... sorry...
:hail: :hail: :hail: :thumbs:
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I admit, I didn't actually look at the "Install" instructions, and din't see that the "pullygear' was floating..
so Yes... it does make for 1/2 effort... sorry...
:hail: :hail: :hail: :thumbs:
:grouphug:
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But the same amount of work :)
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But the same amount of work :)
define "work"...
the pressure/effort for movement is halved.
work by definition, goes to the point of the source... levers make "work" easier, and reduce the output upon thos supplying the effort.. so.. no, it's less work. Less effort, to accomplish the task.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, please. Doesn’t the floating pulley travel half the distance that the cable travels? The effect being that the work is 1/2 of normal.
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define "work"..."
Perhaps "energy over time" then. In any case, for this type of system, "work" and "energy" are the same. "Effort" is a lay term for force, which does not account for time or distance.
the pressure/effort for movement is halved.
Yes, the pressure applied (which is the force or effort) is halved, but not the amount of work.
levers make "work" easier, [...] so.. no, it's less work.
No. The work doesn't change. It is the same amount of work/energy. You are reducing force/pressure while increasing time/distance.
As I said in a previous post- you can't magically make something use less energy with gears and pulleys- there is a time element involved. A pulley system can reduce the amount of force, but you have to apply the force for more time/travel.... or in reverse (more force, but in less time/travel). Energy (or work) is conserved (stays the same).
https://www.explainthatstuff.com/pulleys.html (https://www.explainthatstuff.com/pulleys.html)
A simple example would be hauling 10 gallons of water up some stairs. It is less effort to move a 5 gallon container up the stairs than it would be a 10 gallon container- but you would have to make two trips (you double the distance/time). So it is the same amount of work (ignoring that you would have to go back down the stairs again :) ).
In the example of a clutch lever- you would be using the same amount of calories (a biological unit of energy/work), your muscles would be doing the same amount of "workout"- either less effort for more time, or more effort for less time. Pick your poison :)
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2 wheeled farm implements have straight cut gears for sure engagement. They don't care about the extra noise when you're bailing hay and ****.
What to do, what to do... Time for the sword to be sharpened again.. :rotflmao:
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What to do, what to do... Time for the sword to be sharpened again.. :rotflmao:
Let's talk about the physics of sharpness...
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I really enjoyed it too. 8)
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Sigh...surrounded by Twits.
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Sigh...surrounded by Twits.
...As all Muggle-Wumps should be, now back to standing on your head!