Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: julianm on December 16, 2012, 03:24:00 AM
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Hi Guys,
I hope someone can help with this.
I have a 2010 stock standard which has done about 15000 miles. For the last 4 tanks once the level gets down to 1 bar on the gauge , if you open the throttle the bike cuts out and then pulls again. If I keep the throttle at a constant position it runs okay. Opening the filler cap and running with it open does improve the situation until the "Fuel low" warning comes on ,the cutting out returns. It gets to a point where if I try to pull off too fast the bike cuts out and I have to restart.
I have blown through the breather line and the filler cap and both are open.
What does concern me is that with the cap open it still does it at the lower levels.
Filled up today and there was still about a gallon and a bit left.
Once the tank is full the problems goes away.
Have tried a search but can't find any reference to a similar problem.
Any suggestions welcome.
Many thanks
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Follow the link in the first post. Some of the original pics appear later the the Aussie thread.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1238.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1238.0)
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Either clean it or replace it...
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Thanks very much for the information. Great relief that it is not something really serious.
Could not see the pictures on the link in the recommended post but have found this one which gives all the details with pictures. Thanks to JamminJere
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7625.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7625.0)
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Another thought on this topic.
Has anyone considered removing the filter in the fuel pump and adding an external filter in the fuel line ?
Is this possible , is there space to do it , would it be accessible for easy replacement, etc. as this could be a simpler process than the tank removal, pump strip down, cleaning and reassembly ?
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I'd thought of doing it but due to space restrictions, which you'll observe, it ain't gonna work easier than doing the one in the tank,
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Julian,
Because we have a pressurized fuel injection system, a fuel filter between the tank and throttle bodies and injectors will do nothing to help preserve the life of the fuel pump itself. The filter/sock in the tank is the only way to prevent dirt from entering the complete fuel system. This maintenance procedure is not difficult and after you do it once, like anything else, will be easier the next time. Im positive that after reading your post that you will find a dirty fuel filter/sock in your tank and your bike will have new found power once the procedure is performed.
My complaint is that there are no maintenance procedures or parts avalable for the fuel pump from KAW. Even a great dealer technician told me he never had one apart... They just replace it.
JJ
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I am curious to know if this is covered under the original and extended warranty.
Mark
Either clean it or replace it...
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I am curious to know if this is covered under the original and extended warranty.
Mark
My bet is no, they can't control, what is put in the tank.
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My bet is no, they can't control, what is put in the tank.
+1. What manufacturer covers the quality of fuel put in a vehicle?? The filter/sock is doing its job, but it does fall into the category Jimbo mentioned..
Clean it or replace it. I just cant see spending 300 bucks (maybe less on ebay) for a pump that has nothing else wrong than a dirty screen.
JJ
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I had almost the same start to my problem. Then it started happening more frequently and at all tank levels. Final result was that Kawi replaced the fuel pump under warranty - no problem since. If you are covered I would have them look into it.
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This may or may not help, and is more of a preventative step, but while riding HDs, a good friend of mine who is also an old bike builder swore by Marvel Mystery Oil. I got into the habit of adding 2 ounces to every third or fourth tank full of gas. He claimed that it kept dirt and debris from solidifying in the gas and sticking in the filter or in injectors (or floats on carbs). Again, his claim was instead it would break down and pass through the system.
I don't know how scientific this is, but I continue to use it regularly and have never had a problem. Then again, it could be snake oil and I've just been fortunate :)
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This may or may not help, and is more of a preventative step, but while riding HDs, a good friend of mine who is also an old bike builder swore by Marvel Mystery Oil.
snake oil
the only additives I ever recomend are Stabilizer for storage, and IsoHeet for water removal, followed by running the modified gas completly out, and refilling....period.
I don't know a lot of HD riders that run a full tank of fuel out in a single ride...... ::) I used to know a lot, but they all got lazy.....and resigned to polishing the chrome more than riding. 8) ::) ;)
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Spot on diagnosis , stripped and cleaned the filter which was pretty black , reassembled and bike now back to normal.
Thanks very much to all.
Some advice for next time though, how does one undo the connectors for the fuel pump and level sensor.
Eventually I used jewelers screwdrivers down the body of the connector at each clip while maintaining tension and managed after a struggle to un-clip them.
Is there a better way?
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I think you did fine julian. Maybe next time the connectors wont be a snag for you. Enjoy your repair work!
JJ
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I know it's been some time since a reply has been listed for this thread, but here goes. I just finsiished the Aussie Dave fuel filter repair. Followed his directions with no problems. Used new filter from Kawasaki didn't attempt to clean old one. Used a set of plastiic car trim removal tools (harbor freight) to get the pump apart. No dings or dents in pump housing, that way. Also used a short piece of rubber hose with a bolt in it to cap the tank after fuel removed, due a residual in the bottom. Thought better not to have that spillage on bike or in the shop.
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The 1400 filter kit (with O rings) has only been available for less than a year I think p/n 99999-0521. The filter alone is p/n 49019-0013 and less than half the price of the kit.
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I know it's been some time since a reply has been listed for this thread, but here goes. I just finsiished the Aussie Dave fuel filter repair. Followed his directions with no problems. Used new filter from Kawasaki didn't attempt to clean old one. Used a set of plastiic car trim removal tools (harbor freight) to get the pump apart. No dings or dents in pump housing, that way. Also used a short piece of rubber hose with a bolt in it to cap the tank after fuel removed, due a residual in the bottom. Thought better not to have that spillage on bike or in the shop.
You may want to buy a filter screen and fit it to the old pump as a spare so if there is next time all you have to do is replace the assembly. That's what I did.
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I bought 3 filters and replaced it. I have 2 in the shop drawer for the next couple times. I may do it over the winter. It's a wear item, I wouldn't clean it when it's so easy and cheap to replace.
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Fuel filter needs a clean, as tank empties more likely to happen, less fuel pressure. Also cuts out when on the gas overtaking, leaving you high and dry. Kawasaki refuse to admit there is a problem, they want you to buy complete fuel pump and filter assembly. New filter is same as Kawasaki mule. Have had 2 GTR's, has happened to both bikes approximately every 10 thousand km, always have used good fuel. Great bike, very poor form Kawasaki!
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I had this problem as well and replacing the fuel filter did not cure it. I found the actual fuel pump motor on ebay for $25 and replaced it. She's run just fine ever since!
I tore apart the old motor (which was NOT easy) and saw quite a bit of wear inside. I run my tank from full to nearly empty each week, so I wonder if the extra heat from a mostly empty tank took a toll on the motor? I dunno, but it's cheap enough to fix every 7 years if that's the case because I'm not stopping to get gas every other day.
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Running a vehicle to near empty with an internal fuel pump is not a good idea.
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The whole idea of putting an electrical device in an explosive container is a bit out there.....
That's what they do in the desert...
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Running a vehicle to near empty with an internal fuel pump is not a good idea.
My best friend (a master mechanic) has told me that over and over, for many years. The theory being that heavy contaminates would sink and collect at the very bottom, accumulating over time. Often I wondered if it would make sense to somehow vacuum out or flush out the fuel tank every several years.... something much more possible/practical on a motorcycle compared to a car.
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The whole idea of putting an electrical device in an explosive container is a bit out there.....
Indeed. I remember many years ago when I first learned about the practice of the pump being INSIDE the tank with the gasoline and it certainly sounds insane. Gasoline is not flammable in its liquid state- it must be a vapor (and then it is VERY VERY flammable). But there are vapors in that tank too!
The engineers must know what they are doing, though, since it is very rare you see/hear about a gas tank explosion/meltdown. It does happen, but most of the time it is not the actual tank or pump- it is a leak, allowing fuel to escape, vaporize, and touch something very hot. [Cue the videos of people causing their bikes to burst in flames by filling them improperly, and often while it is running!]
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My best friend (a master mechanic) has told me that over and over, for many years. The theory being that heavy contaminates would sink and collect at the very bottom, accumulating over time. Often I wondered if it would make sense to somehow vacuum out or flush out the fuel tank every several years.... something much more possible/practical on a motorcycle compared to a car.
Not running your tank low has nothing to do with contaminants. The pickup is from near the bottom anyway, plus filling up the tank will stir up any debris that is in the tank, thus allowing it to enter to fuel pump assembly. Regardless, that is what the filter is for. No one should have much debris in their tanks if you're using decent gasoline and keeping your fuel cap closed.
What Virginia Jim was referring to was the extra wear on the pump motor by being run on a low tank. While I'm no scientist, the pump doesn't shed heat as well in a small volume of fuel as it does in a higher volume. That adds strain to the motor via some magical principles of thermal transfer. While I'm aware of this, it's still not enough to keep me from doing so. I'll stop for gas every four days on my commutes, not every other day. Just ain't happnin'. $25 for a new pump motor and an hours worth of my time to replace it every 7 years is worth it for me to not have to stop for gas so often. It's got a 5.8 gallon tank, and I use almost every ounce of it regularly.
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You're right. It's not that bad to replace...unlike a car or truck.