What is the lowest temperature you have experience while outdoors?

[connie_rider]

Maxtog, I helped a buddy convert his 4000 Generator to propane.
We bought a carb with pressure regulator etc on Ebay for about $35.
The installation was EZ, and his generator will now run on gasoline or Propane.
I'm pretty certain that the same unit works on Natural gas.

Look on You tube and you can get an idea on the conversion, {lots of video's available} then look at eBay for a system for your generator.

The beauty of this is,,, you don't have to rely on a gas station being open.

Ride safe, Ted

[greenie]

I have a 30HP John Deere compact tractor and couple a 17,000 watt Winco PTO generator to it. Naturally it needs to be hooked up and refueled every 7 hours but it is more practical than having an engine dedicated to something that might run 8 hours a year.
I shut off the main breaker and have a cord with a clothes dryer plug on its end and power the home in that manner. Some will say that without a transfer switch I can energize the line between my house and the grid. Impossible. Power transformers (the ones on the poles) run both ways (put 240 volts into the secondary side and the primary output is 7,200 volts (depending on location) ) The load on the generator is tremendous since the backfeeding generator is now attempting to power the neighborhood. Can't be done - not even for a second.
Whenever the area has a prolonged power outage dryer cords disappear off of store shelves.

[maxtog]

Some will say that without a transfer switch I can energize the line between my house and the grid. Impossible.

It is improbable but not impossible.  If they start disconnecting small parts of the neighborhood, it could lead to a dangerous situation for line workers, although they should be already taking proper precautions.  It might not be for long, since it would likely quickly kill your generator (due to such a huge "load").  But it still can present a hazard.  The reverse situation, where the MAIN is not disconnected when the main power returns could be far more dangerous.  Hopefully the appropriate breakers will trip.  Hopefully in time to not cause a fire.  It could destroy your generator in the process.

It is best for many reasons to make sure your MAIN is off before backfeeding and the generator is disconnected before turning the MAIN breaker back on.  It isn't rocket science, but I suspect a lot of "normal" people can't handle it.  So they are going to make it as scary as possible to discourage backfeeding.  I totally understand why code (and law) requires the use of a transfer panel (manual or automatic).

I have been backfeeding without a transfer panel for many years.  But it scares me every time (nothing commands more respect than a huge-gauge, 220V, double-male power cord).  The most annoying thing is not knowing when the main power returns.  Usually a neighbor will text me, seeking to make my noisy generator go silent

[Rick Hall]

... Some will say that without a transfer switch I can energize the line between my house and the grid. Impossible. Power transformers (the ones on the poles) run both ways (put 240 volts into the secondary side and the primary output is 7,200 volts (depending on location) ) The load on the generator is tremendous since the backfeeding generator is now attempting to power the neighborhood. Can't be done - not even for a second. ...

By your own admission, you've said your lame ass generator can back feed the grid. Not by many volts, as you also mention the extreme load, but you are back feeding.

Power goes out on a regular basis at my fortress, I too have a generator 'plumbed' into my system, and NO transfer switch. The one time I neglected to disconnect my main breaker before I fired up the genny, my neighbors lights came on dim, and my genny bogged down big time. I have to assume any Xcel line workers were on break.

Don't be a putz, isolate your system from the grid before you fire up alternate power.

Rick

[greenie]

"By your own admission, you've said your lame ass generator can back feed the grid. Not by many volts, as you also mention the extreme load, but you are back feeding." Read what I wrote again more carefully Rick.

I do isolate my home from the grid by shutting off the main breaker before I run my home on a generator.  I made that point abundantly clear - then made the mistake of explaining what would happen if I did not isolate my generator and system.
Circuit breakers work. Homeowners and electricians implicitly trust a circuit breaker to isolate a branch before working on the line. When a circuit breaker fails it almost invariably fails in the tripped position. I have never witnessed a circuit breaker fail in a closed condition in 40 years of hands on work. Circuit breakers are designed to be fail-safe.
I was responsible for a facility with a large system of buried primary lines and transformers. One section of line needed to be replaced but we needed to keep the power on. With a 50KVA diesel generator tied in to the secondary taps on one transformer (and the defunct line disconnected and jumpered) the generator output of 240 volts was stepped up to 7,200 volts at the first transformer which powered our entire system which included 5 other transformers which stepped the 7,200 volts down to 240 volts ( 5HP pumps water, sewage, water heaters, lights, and several miles of line ) . We ran our own grid for 3 weeks in this manner - working in unison with the utility company. I researched and carried out the project. It worked well. I understand how to backfeed and how to prevent backfeeding.
I'll close by reiterating that before connecting a generator to run an entire home shut off the main breaker to ISOLATE your system from the grid.

[greenie]

Costs to repair freeze damage in Texas may be as high as $200 Billion according to CBS News. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-winter-storm-uri-costs/ ...
People lost electrical power in their homes and many did little if anything to minimize freezing damage. A gas oven could have provided some heat - allowing water to trickle from a faucet can prevent the water line serving that faucet from freezing. Almost every home has a water shut off that will - if nothing else prevent water damage from ruptured lines - but better than that a water main shut off can allow a partial drain back of water in lines and fixtures can be done by opening all taps and allowing lines to partially drain by gravity. Water in toilet bowls and tanks can be removed if the residents are going to leave the home with a plunger. RV antifreeze can be poured into drains to prevent freezing.
Elderly people and single Moms might not be able take preventative action but all that damage seems to indicate that many fathers, husbands,  and sons bugged out of freezing homes without taking any steps to minimize damage.
Earlier in this thread  I attempted to clear up common misunderstandings about electricity - powering a home with a generator. Not only was that experience largely ignored but it was met with a remark that perpetuates the myths of powering a home with a generator.
Insurance companies will pay these claims - but consider how those losses will be recouped. Higher premiums, higher costs for building materials, ruined food, clothing,carpets, and sheet rock.
 

[maxtog]

I think most people just had never experienced anything like that in their entire lives, and being so far south, they didn't know what procedures to use in regards to preventing water freezing damage.  Information about what to do probably wasn't disseminated widely, since that is normally done through computer and TV and radio, all of which require power.  Of those who even have gas service, many lost their service of that too, because of freezing gas lines.  Many had no gas stove (I, for example, have gas heat and water, but not stove).  Most have no access to generators, and in such an event, it is not like any would be available to obtain if they didn't already have one.

[Strawboss]

I agree with greenie and maxtog, both have very good points. That kind of happened 8 years ago here in Cleveland when Hurricane Sandy blew through, we never had anything like that before, I wouldn't know the first thing to do about very high sustained winds other than what we do when it gusts, that's what I did. I watched very little TV and the power went out anyway. Luckily, just the power line ripped off the house.

[greenie]

It's the ability to survive that's the issue. If a propane appliance fails one can shut off the supply, remove the regulator (caution - reverse threads!) warm up the regulator, shake out the water, reinstall and relight appliances. Some gas appliances will run without electrical power. I suspect some natural gas outages were caused by frozen regulators as well - while one might not be able to remove an outdoor natural gas regulator one can probably pour warm water over it.
Shutting off a water main is pretty basic too even if you are bugging out.
Almost any home maintenance issue is covered with YouTube videos even for folks that have never turned a wrench before. There is more than ample resources of how-to guides online for any eventuality. Maybe entering adulthood with unreliable but stylish cars helped hone my mechanical abilities... Back then if I couldn't get the car running I walked... and walked alone. Nowadays cars generally run when the key is turned or the button is pushed. There's at least one generation that missed all the learning opportunities and sociological implications that older cars and trucks imparted. Self-sufficiency is its own reward.

[Strawboss]

your last sentence there pretty much summed up all your previous posts. To add to that, when I was in school, basic everyday life things were taught in a class called "Family Living", essentially, a coed Home Economics class. We got away from that, and, skilled trades went by the wayside with shop classes being cancelled. But to me, your last sentence meant a lot about where we are going and that's decidedly away from self sufficiency, away from the individual, being dependent on others for everything. Teach a kid how to change their oil or help you with a brake job if you can find one that wants to learn that.

[Boomer]

Too many these days have absolutely no idea how any of the infrastructure they rely on works. Even when you try to explain to some, their attitude can be to bury their head in the sand as they are just too lazy to learn. I now leave them to it, and just behave like an insufferable ass when they later come to me for help.

If you have no idea how to deal with a water leak, gas leak, power outages, freezing conditions, flooding, etc. then it's your funeral. When these things happen, the Internet may not be available, so it'll be too late to look it up then. I'm not a prepper in terms of food, etc. but I am in terms of knowhow!

In my teens I did wilderness survival training, both team and solo. Solo is hard! I lost weight on every single solo exercise I did.
On one team exercise we caught a wild sheep and ate like kings. Because of that, the hardship of finding food every day was substantially reduced, so I got bored and made a waterwheel generator from found junk that powered a flashlight bulb. <LOL>

[maxtog]

Too many these days have absolutely no idea how any of the infrastructure they rely on works. Even when you try to explain to some, their attitude can be to bury their head in the sand as they are just too lazy to learn.

I have observed the exact same thing.  I find it amazing that most 40's and younger men I know have no idea how to fix anything or even how things work.  I believe there are many reasons, some are- lack of fathers, complexity of modern life, lack of motivation, constant social media and gaming distractions, and the stripping of practical subjects from schools (replaced with a lot of often destructive and/or useless nonsense, which I won't dive into now).

However, it is true that something as simple as Youtube can bring a ton of useful information right to your fingertips.  I will admit I have probably spent way too much time watching endless clips of repairs, fixes, cleaning tips, how-to's, and equipment teardown/theory.

[Strawboss]

It's been said that recognizing your problem is half the battle, that if you buy a "self help" book, then why read it as you know you have a problem. If the younglings have no clue as to what the problem is, much less where to look to find out how to fix it, then all the modern technology doesn't apply because they don't know what they don't know and if they need direction then they wouldn't be in the fix they are in and would be self sufficient and we wouldn't be having this talk. Or, you could say, give a man a fish and he eats for the day, teach him to fish and he eats a lifetime. Or, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

[motonerd14]

I have observed the exact same thing.  I find it amazing that most 40's and younger men I know have no idea how to fix anything or even how things work.  I believe there are many reasons, some are- lack of fathers, complexity of modern life, lack of motivation, constant social media and gaming distractions, and the stripping of practical subjects from schools (replaced with a lot of often destructive and/or useless nonsense, which I won't dive into now).

However, it is true that something as simple as Youtube can bring a ton of useful information right to your fingertips.  I will admit I have probably spent way too much time watching endless clips of repairs, fixes, cleaning tips, how-to's, and equipment teardown/theory.

 How many people under 40 do you know? Your generalization is quite ageist and far from reality.

[Boomer]

I know quite a few "younglings" who would do better than me in a survival situation, but most would not.
Most of those who can are ex-Scouts, but one grew up on a farm and she is quite used to "making do".
If you live in a rural area, then most people have a DIY attitude and are mostly capable.
City dwellers on the other hand mostly don't have a clue and start crying if the WiFi goes down for more than a few minutes. 
Yes, there are exceptions as always with such generalisations.

[maxtog]

How many people under 40 do you know? Your generalization is quite ageist and far from reality.

About half as many as people as over 40.
It is a generalization, for sure, but based on my observation/experience.  Admittedly, it could be skewed, and could just be the people I know.  It also seems to hold that even older men know even more about fixing things than my generation, as if each generation is just more used to buying and throwing things away, rather than learning how to fix stuff.  I don't think it is "ageist", just a natural progression based mostly on the way the market has starting making more and more things that are either harder to repair, or not worth repairing.  Plus, my assertion about lack of fathers is absolutely empirical.

[Strawboss]

Hey boomer, your finger hit the "S" button and not the "Z" button when you typed generalizations. Just kidding.

[motonerd14]

Coldest I ever felt outdoors was Great Lakes, IL, winter of 2005. They put us on snow shoveling duty so the Senior Chief wouldn’t get snow on his dress shoes. If the path wasn’t clear he’d throw his cover at us and call us turds and “worthless mongrels.” Overnight temperature was about 12° but the wind chill brought it down into single digits. It was COLD! The guy in our quarters from New Mexico couldn’t stop shivering, and the other guy from Florida wound up in sickbay with hypothermia.

The Navy sure was an interesting job!

[Boomer]

Hey boomer, your finger hit the "S" button and not the "Z" button when you typed generalizations. Just kidding.

I shall continue to use generalise , apologise, organise, recognise, empathise, analyse, and all other -ises and -yses, since those are the correct spellings in English, the language used in England where English originated from.
Travelled has 2 L's, Manoeuvre has an O, Defence has a c, as does Offence, Licence, etc.
Colour has a U, as does Flavour, Labour, Neighbour, and of course Humour 

If you choose to spell it differently in "simplified" American English, then that is of course your choice.   

[maxtog]

since those are the correct spellings in English, the language used in England where English originated from.[...]If you choose to spell it differently in "simplified" American English, then that is of course your choice.

Actually....  British English and American English split off and evolved separately.  At the time of the colonies, many spellings and pronunciations were no more standardized in Britain than they were here.  So, technically, in many such cases, neither is more "correct", they are just different.  English is a both a wonderful and horrible language, full of expressiveness, strangeness, inconsistencies, changes, and even other languages.  I have studied it for many years (lots of good shows and books about it) and it never ceases to amuse me