Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => Accessories and Modifications - C10 => Topic started by: jim snyder on January 10, 2012, 10:56:13 AM
-
Well after months of preparation I finally got the new pipe fitted and welded up. Work and illnesses have severely cut into
my tinkering time, but persistence pays off.
-
Looks great! I are impressed!!!!!!
QUESTIONS:
* Do you plan to ceramic coat them?
* Have you ran that Muzzy on your bike already?
If so, Was it Loud??????
* Is this "new" set up the same as what is currently on your bike?
* Will you be selling your old set?
NOTE:
I have my bike on the bench now for my Header install.
(Yes, I "Finally" got the initiative to install my set).
Plastic is off, mufflers off, etc off, wrapped the head pipes last night.
My set is similar to your original set but muffler is on the left side....
The set up (in your photo's) look a LOT more professional than mine.
Ride safe, Ted
-
Looks great! I are impressed!!!!!!
QUESTIONS:
* Do you plan to ceramic coat them? I am trying to find a coater right now, know anyone close?
* Have you ran that Muzzy on your bike already? Yes
If so, Was it Loud?????? No, I built an internal baffle on this one and its very sweet
* Is this "new" set up the same as what is currently on your bike? Yes
* Will you be selling your old set? Yes. Thinking about bringing it to the national with me.
NOTE:
I have my bike on the bench now for my Header install.
(Yes, I "Finally" got the initiative to install my set).
Plastic is off, mufflers off, etc off, wrapped the head pipes last night.
My set is similar to your original set but muffler is on the left side....
The set up (in your photo's) look a LOT more professional than mine.
Ride safe, Ted
-
Don't know a coater, but assume you can find one in Dallas.
Give me few details about your Internal Baffle. I plan to use a Jardine Muffler on mine. Afraid it will be too loud.
Ride safe, Ted
-
Don't know a coater, but assume you can find one in Dallas.
Give me few details about your Internal Baffle. I plan to use a Jardine Muffler on mine. Afraid it will be too loud.
Ride safe, Ted
The baffle came from JC Whitney, I sent you the link.
-
Is it possible that you will be marketing the collector only, for some of us to make the conversion with our own headers?
-
Is it possible that you will be marketing the collector only, for some of us to make the conversion with our own headers?
Not likely, the midpipe section I use is from a discontinued Ontario (88-90) ZX-10 header. The company went out of business
years ago but their pipes continue to trickle their way onto ebay about one a year. If I could buy anymore I would, they are
just few and far in between. I f I owned a pipe bender machine from an old muffler/tailpipe shop it would probably be a no
brainer to copy the design.
-
Here are photo's of my Poor Boy version.
In my case I wanted larger head pipes so those were pieced together using Stainless tubing.
(I now think that stock Connie Headpipes would be better. They would definitely be a whole lot less work!!!!
I wanted the muffler to be on the left side, and be able to use the centerstand, so (at this point) I opted not to use the Ontario Lowers. (the Ontario's are a lot less work)!
Hopefully I'll install it on the bike next week and see if it works. :loco:
Yes... Jims is better. (But this is his 5th set. I'm only a beginner)
Ride safe, Ted
-
Ted said "Yes... Jims is better. (But this is his 5th set). I'm only a beginner"
Well now you know how dedicated you have to be to want something like this. I wish you could see my pile of pipes and pieces leftover from all of the experiments. Them darn hotrodders are all alike,
always tinkering trying to make stuff go faster. Oh wait, I are one.
-
Looks great! I are impressed!!!!!!
QUESTIONS:
* Do you plan to ceramic coat them?
Ride safe, Ted
OMG Ted !! I found a place that does ceramic coating that is 30 miles from here. Will be calling them
on thursday.
-
Nice work Jim. :thumbs: :thumbs:
-
Great looking pipe Jim. I know you have been working on perfecting the design since I met you in 2004. I'll bet it sounds/performs great.
-
OMG Ted !! I found a place that does ceramic coating that is 30 miles from here. Will be calling them
on thursday.
GREAT!!
Keep me posted on how it goes.
Ride safe, Ted
-
Neat looking project Jim, but there'd half to be a BIG improvement in the engine's power delivery before I'd attempt anything so drastic. I applaud your tenacity. I hope you can ride down to Lake 'O The Pines next October and show her off when the NTNOA has their Rally at the Marina. Connie and I will most likely be there camped out amongst the trees. Mike in Mansfield TX
-
Neat looking project Jim, but there'd half to be a BIG improvement in the engine's power delivery before I'd attempt anything so drastic. I applaud your tenacity. I hope you can ride down to Lake 'O The Pines next October and show her off when the NTNOA has their Rally at the Marina. Connie and I will most likely be there camped out amongst the trees. Mike in Mansfield TX
The pipe makes quite a difference in the torque, and did add a few horsepower. This was not the first one of these as I have
made, this one has a different can. I actually made this one to sell. The sound of the exhaust is awesome. Being an old crotch
rocket rider and dragbike racer I have a love affair with 4 into 1 exhaust systems and the sweet music they make when properly
engineered. When I get the pipe mounted I am going to do some video/audio clips to post that will let everyone hear how it sounds
with several different mufflers.
The NTNOA rally you speak of, what does that stand for? And be sure to give me the exact dates so I can put it on my calendar.
Lake o' the Pines is only 20 miles from my place so I will definitely try and attend.
-
Jim, NTNOA stands for the North Texas Norton Owners Assn. I've been a mamber for several years. Do I own a Norton? No, and I probably never will. They're a good bunch of guys to hang about with and put on this Rally the 1st weekend in October at Big Cypress Marina on the extreme eastern end of LOTP. hope to meet you there and see your 4 into 1 pipe in person! Mike in Mansfield TX
-
Just dropped the pipes off at the ceramic coating place. I think the guy gave me a heck of a deal, $75 to do
the entire exhaust. I Choose the titanium gray color. Can't wait to get it back (10 to 14 days).
-
Pardon me from poaching over from the C14 side, but I saw the subject and had to check it out.
I was just wondering why the C10 guys would want to change from dual exhausts to single, while the C14 guys want to change their single exhaust into duals?
-
the grass is always greener... :o steve
-
Pardon me from poaching over from the C14 side, but I saw the subject and had to check it out.
I was just wondering why the C10 guys would want to change from dual exhausts to single, while the C14 guys want to change their single exhaust into duals?
Good question. I guess I could counter by saying: I was just wondering why the C14 guys would want to change from single exhausts to dual, while the C10 guys want to change their dual exhaust into singles?? :o
Answers/lies/wishful thinking:
It's all Jims's fault!!!!!
In the beginning I wanted to increase the size of the head pipes,
I later opted to mod to 4 into 1 as Jim had found certain advanteges (better mid range power curve) on his original build.
Jims current design seems to give better mid and improved upper power than his first design.
I wanted my bike to look and sound different than other Connies.
Jim had a set and I didn't...... (Jealosy)
I think the 4 into 1's have better scavenging effect over 4 into 2's.
Most of the aftermarket Header systems are 4 into 1's.
They have a "definite" weight advantage over the 4 into 2's.
I wanted to try them on my dyno to see if they did change things.
BUT!!!!
Steves answer is probably the best/most honest answer to your question.....
the grass is always greener... :o steve
?
Ride safe, Ted
-
Pardon me from poaching over from the C14 side, but I saw the subject and had to check it out.
I was just wondering why the C10 guys would want to change from dual exhausts to single, while the C14 guys want to change their single exhaust into duals?
Its always amazed me how no one questions a BMW rider as to why they have single sided exhaust, same with V-strom. I'll explain it as simple as I can, IT LOOKS GOOD, SOUNDS GOOD, and RUNS GREAT. And as Ted mentioned
there is a considerable weight advantage. Being a former dragbike racer I know a little about how horsepower to weight ratio works. I am going to weigh everything when I get finished and see exactly how much we are talking
about but its atleast 25 to 30 lbs difference I would guess. But the most important reason for building my 4 into 1 system was because one muffler sounds way better than two mufflers (when done right of course). The only problem with the C-14 was that gosh aweful muffler that mama Kaw put on it to start with. There are alot of good looking mufflers out there, but alot of them are WAY over priced. I choose the Delkevic because it looked good and was reasonably priced. Bottom line is there is nothing that sounds better than a well tuned 4 into 1 exhaust system.
Heck the reason a Ferrari sounds so good is not because it has quiet mufflers right. My pipe is not loud or uncomfortable to the ear. It makes a sweet sound that is music to the ears of this old dragbiker.
-
OMG Ted !! I found a place that does ceramic coating that is 30 miles from here. Will be calling them
on thursday.
Can't wait to see them!!!
Risde safe, Ted
-
Can't wait to see them!!!
Risde safe, Ted
Dropped both pipes off yesterday to get coated, so whoever is the lucky recipient of the other one will
have nice ceramic coating on it.
-
Yes Sir What Mr. Jim said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
I know alot ogf guys are about the "sound" of the exhaust. Personally, I'd just about prefer if it were silent; I find exhausts invitations to be the proud recipient of performance awards from admiring LEO's. all that matters to me is that it works! Steve
-
Well after months of preparation I finally got the new pipe fitted and welded up. Work and illnesses have severely cut into
my tinkering time, but persistence pays off.
Which one you talkin bout? I see 2, or you talkin bout 2.
I bet the 1st one is better at high rpms?
-
Looking good. I hope it gives you a decent result at the dyno.
As far as the swapping from two silencers to one - it is not something I want to do. I prefer the "balanced" look that a silencer on each side gives. Even though it is heavier and not as good at scavenging.
But on the plus side, it does not give the game away when other people see the bike. A 4 into 1, tells people that you have been looking to add more horsepower and less weight.
I prefer the 1109 kit and twin silencers. 8)
-
Jim, for my later on project I have a spare header, If I attempt this ontario set up next year, I noticed in your webshot pics on the original ontario mockup those calguard labeled 2/1 perfect small collectors, what size are they and who carries them for sale plsr. thx Steve
-
Jim, I also have been meaning to ask you but kept forgetting, on your rear brake caliper conversion, Did yu make the caliper to swing arm stay bar or using one from a different bike, I noticed ot it looks great and looks a little lighter, can you give me some idea. thx
steve
-
Jim, I also have been meaning to ask you but kept forgetting, on your rear brake caliper conversion, Did yu make the caliper to swing arm stay bar or using one from a different bike, I noticed ot it looks great and looks a little lighter, can you give me some idea. thx
steve
He got that idea from me..... That is a is Greg Couch made from billet alum brake stay for a ZRX1100 you can find one on the zrxoa forum.only need to drill a one of the bolt holes larger to make fit. It is so much lighter thn the stock steel crowbar.
-
thx again Tony, regards Steve
-
thx again Tony, regards Steve
Your most welcome....
-
thx again Tony, regards Steve
Yeah, what Tony said !!!
-
Which one you talkin bout? I see 2, or you talkin bout 2.
I bet the 1st one is better at high rpms?
JP; If your asking about the 2 sets of photo's.
The first pictures are Jims new design (4 into 1's) using an Ontario Lower Pipe.
His dyno curves show that his new Design flows well across the entire rpm range.
Unfortunately, the Ontario Pipes are now VERY hard to get!
I posted my photo's to show there is a way to built a system if you do not have Ontario Lowers.
(And to stirr up a Bar bet with Jim)..
Several years ago Jim built his First/original set.
The second pictures are "my" version of "Jims original 4 into 1 design".
On "his" original design he used a stock Connie system.
He closed off the left muffler and used the stock crossover to move the exhaust gases to the right side.
On the dyno it showed an improved power curve over stock but hurt it a bit at the top rpm's.
I copied his "Original design" and made mods that I hope will help:
I built larger head pipes with anti reversion venturi's, closed off the right muffler and built a larger/smoother flowing crossover to move the exhaust gases to the left side. Plus, I added a larger exit pipe.
My system is a heck of a Lot more work than either of his, and probably not nearly as effective as his New Design.
Only the Dyno can tell which is better!
His new system "rocks"...
Ride safe, Ted
-
Thanks Ted. I'll tell you one thing, the original design was alot easier to build than the new one. I could convert one of the original connie exhausts to a 4 into 1 in about two hours. I'll tell you somethinmg else that the original design had,
fuel mileage. If you remember the first ride with that setup was when I went to Big Bend with you guys, and I got 50+
MPG for that entire trip. So the original design did have some merit.
-
50 MPG??
Somehow, I suspect you just got the attention of every Gas Mileage Guy that reads this discussion!
Do you mean it takes you 2 hours to take everything off, do the mod to the exhaust system, and reassemble?
Or, it takes you 2 hours to mod the system after it is off the bike?
Heck,,,, It takes me that long to get the plastic, radiator, etc, off the bike!!!
Ride safe, Ted
-
50 MPG??
Somehow, I suspect you just got the attention of every Gas Mileage Guy that reads this discussion!
Do you mean it takes you 2 hours to take everything off, do the mod to the exhaust system, and reassemble?
Or, it takes you 2 hours to mod the system after it is off the bike?
Heck,,,, It takes me that long to get the plastic, radiator, etc, off the bike!!!
Ride safe, Ted
Sorry Ted, I meant 2 hours to do the mod. Of course I'm getting pretty good at removing the plastic. My plastic
and exhaust pipes have been off so many times they have stretch marks on them.
-
Just got the headers back from the ceramic coating place today, THEY LOOK AWESOME !!! will post pictures as soon as I can take some.
-
Ok here are the pictures of the ceramic coating job. $75 per set was a pretty good deal I thought. Got them insatlled today so I will have the muffler audio/videos very soon.
-
Hi All,
I just received my 4-2-1 from Jim yesterday. Does that mean that mine are number six of ? Jim really does a nice job. Now I am trying to figure out what muffler to use and whether there is anyting else I want to get before removing all the plastics and radiator. About all I can think of is a muzzy fan since I have the filter adapter, carb jetting, exhaust gear, bowls from a ZG1200, tank quick removal setup, side cover knobs, stick coils, and improved shift linkage. Just keeping up in Southeast Lousiana.
It will be a while before I install the exhaust as the weather here is incredibly warm! Shoot, I could wait until August when only the devil rides around here.
Jim, Steve, T-cro, and Murph - thank you.
John Mc
-
Hi Jim:
Saw you did couple of this exhause(s) system couples times before, so hope you don't mind to answer my lay man questions.
1. what's the major benefit(s) this 4-2-1 system will be provied, and why our OEM4-2-2 cannot provide? Is it about competitive performance (HP), or music playing (louder), or just 4-2-1 is looking cool?
2. I wonder if I replaced 2 mufflers with the one you are going to use, will they sound pretty differently?
Thank you for your respose.
KL
-
The Stock pipes direct cylinders 1-2 to one side, and cylinders 3-4 to the other side. Due to the firing order, the exhaust pulses end up with a push-push-wait-wait in each pipe. Combining 4 to 1 changes this to a push-push-push-push (i.e. a constant flow of gas, as opposed to a double push/double wait). I would guess that this helps improve the exhaust flow characteristics, although at 4000 RPM you are talking a minimal difference (which may be statistically significant, however). Based on reports of those who have went 4-2-1 with the Connie, this does seem to help performance.
What I've been wanting to do is change the pipe routing to 1-4 left 2-3 right, so that the exhaust pulses are evenly spaced, yet you'd still have a dual system. I'd be curious as to how this would compare versus the stock setup or 4-2-1 setups. However, this isn't currently in the budget; maybe if I hit the lottery...
-
Hi Jim:
Saw you did couple of this exhause(s) system couples times before, so hope you don't mind to answer my lay man questions.
1. what's the major benefit(s) this 4-2-1 system will be provied, and why our OEM4-2-2 cannot provide? Is it about competitive performance (HP), or music playing (louder), or just 4-2-1 is looking cool?
2. I wonder if I replaced 2 mufflers with the one you are going to use, will they sound pretty differently?
Thank you for your respose.
KL
Good questions KL, here goes,
The first thing is weight reduction. I cut nearly 25 lbs off the bike with the 4 into 1 pipe.
The biggest change was the elimination of the torque dip between 4,000 & 5,000 rpm that
all C-10's have. The 3 to 4 lbs of additional torque is definitely noticable. And last but not
least, besides looking cool the sound is awesome. Being a m/c dragracer and former crotch
rocket rider all my life the sound of a 4 into 1 is music to my ears. And of course the best
reason and the driving force behind the build was the fact that "they" told me "they don't
make one of those for your bike".
-
Hey Jim, have you had any luck on building the Adjustable Intake Restrictor Plate?
Everyone told me that "they don't make one of those for your bike".
(Sed while Ducking and running) :loco:
<Sly Grin>
Ride safe, Ted
-
Hey Jim, have you had any luck on building the Adjustable Intake Restrictor Plate?
Everyone told me that "they don't make one of those for your bike".
(Sed while Ducking and running) :loco:
<Sly Grin>
Ride safe, Ted
As a matter of fact I have. The new prototype is on the airbox now and is undergoing extensive testing. The new one is made from ABS plastic.
-
Cool.
Let me know what you find out.
I tried a vacuum control, but no luck so far.
Ride safe, Ted
-
If anyone is interested, daytona mike is selling the 4-2-1 pipe that was on his connie. it's in very good condition. contact me if interested - Steve
-
As a matter of fact I have. The new prototype is on the airbox now and is undergoing extensive testing. The new one is made from ABS plastic.
Jim, If you'll be mass producing them and selling to the general connie public, I'm take one.
-
Jim, If you'll be mass producing them and selling to the general connie public, I'm take one.
Sorry Joe but there won't be any mass production. These are like fine works of art.
There are only 5 lucky C-10 owners out who have one of these. I will be building another
pipe this winter. It will be for sale but I will not "give it away" like I did the last one. Folks do not realize how much work goes into these type projects. If I can't get what its worth
it will be my spare forever.
-
Sorry Joe but there won't be any mass production. These are like fine works of art.
There are only 5 lucky C-10 owners out who have one of these. I will be building another
pipe this winter. It will be for sale but I will not "give it away" like I did the last one. Folks do not realize how much work goes into these type projects. If I can't get what its worth
it will be my spare forever.
Jim, I think he was asking about the intake resrictor plate. I thought you were talking about mass producing those?
Ride safe, Ted
-
Jim, I think he was asking about the intake resrictor plate. I thought you were talking about mass producing those?
Ride safe, Ted
Ya ... what he said.
-
Sorry about that. yes if I can find enough ABS plastic I will consider producing them.
-
"The sound of the exhaust is awesome. Being an old crotch
rocket rider and dragbike racer I have a love affair with 4 into 1 exhaust systems and the sweet music they make when properly
engineered. When I get the pipe mounted I am going to do some video/audio clips to post that will let everyone hear how it sounds
with several different mufflers."
Hi Jim:
I am still holding my breath for the video/audio clip to come. Fire it up when it's all set. Love the music. :)
Thanks for sharing!!
KL
-
Hi Jim:
I am still holding my breath for the video/audio clip to come. Fire it up when it's all set. Love the music. :)
Thanks for sharing!!
KL
Ok here is the link to the exhaust videos I posted on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/user/jimbob24fan?feature=mhee (http://www.youtube.com/user/jimbob24fan?feature=mhee)