‘10 C-14, ’11 K1600 and ‘13 FJR go on a trip

[Flienlow]

So we go on a road trip to the Black hills. I was on my Connie, and my two buddies on their perspective rides. All bikes were kitted about the same. Cruise control, Bar Risers, Peg lowering, ABS, TC, ect.
When my one friend first showed me his new FJR, I went for a spin on it. I was amazed at how well the bike handled and it got me thinking about trading in the Connie for one. Fast forward to our ride….
Still thinking about the FRJ (not really wanting to spend BMW Coin) I asked if I could ride the bike again.  It completely changed my opinion of it. The bike felt board stiff, uncomfortable, and I hated the fact that I need to go into a mode to do something as simple as raising the windscreen.  Not to mention the side cases are quite a bit smaller than the Connie’s. And what is with the CC being limited to 82mph? Now the Connie for sure has its faults. Fuel Range could be better, and the handling leaves much room for improvement imho. But I have to say at this point if I was to buy a new bike, it would have to be an RT. I did ride the GTL, and it is a fantastic bike, however it’s a big bike and damn is that thing is expensive.
Our average days were about 450 miles of riding with a few 600+ mile days thrown in there. With my mods (Rostra CC, risers,wedges, and peg lowering) I felt really comfortable and that made the ride very enjoyable.  If we were on a race track the FJR for sure would be the bike to have, but for just hammering out miles I think the Connie has it beat even though it doesn’t handle as well and is quite dated compare to the other two. It really surprised me that I like my $10,000 Used Connie over one half again as much and other almost 3 times the cost.
In Closing I think the new RT would be fantastic on a road trip such as this, but it would also be very boring around town and for commuting. Think I will now go and throw in some more Rotella in and keep the inexpensive Ol’ War horse around a little longer. 
Cheers!

[martin_14]

Nice write up.
Regarding the other bikes, I haven't had the chance to use the Yamaha extensively but it's a pretty bike, much more so than the Kawasaki in my eyes. About the BMW, I loathe the GTL because of the stupid low seat, which looks comfy but bends the knees far too much for the driver and renders the passenger handrails useless. I'd rather get the GT with the top case for 2 up if money no object, since the top case alone costs USD1345.99 according to Amazon. I'm sure those expeditions to the Everest in Nepal pay less for 10 equipment porters Still, the engine sound (I mean engine, not exhaust sound) whining all the time, the throttle lag, and the complete lack of feedback from the front wheel just spoil the thing for me. But taking hairpins with that behemoth is incredibly easy.
One question: could you expand on the handling issue on the Kawasaki? Where do you see the room for improvement? I have my own complaints in this area, but I'd like to hear yours.

[1jeep]

You guys really think the connie handles that bad, spend 10 years riding harley "touring" bikes then get on one fo these....mine feels like it is on rails!

[concoursbdh]

I have had several of both the FJR and the C14!  Love riding both as well.  Did the FJR you rode already have as many personal mods that your C14 does?  If not, kind of like comparing new tires just put on to old ones and calling them junk!  I never have figured out that thread..   They did fix the cruise after the first year of the low setting and complaints, because like you they all hated that part.  I like those kind of rides where I can compare my favorites during the same day/ride!

[Flienlow]

Nice write up.
Regarding the other bikes, I haven't had the chance to use the Yamaha extensively but it's a pretty bike, much more so than the Kawasaki in my eyes. About the BMW, I loathe the GTL because of the stupid low seat, which looks comfy but bends the knees far too much for the driver and renders the passenger handrails useless. I'd rather get the GT with the top case for 2 up if money no object, since the top case alone costs USD1345.99 according to Amazon. I'm sure those expeditions to the Everest in Nepal pay less for 10 equipment porters Still, the engine sound (I mean engine, not exhaust sound) whining all the time, the throttle lag, and the complete lack of feedback from the front wheel just spoil the thing for me. But taking hairpins with that behemoth is incredibly easy.
One question: could you expand on the handling issue on the Kawasaki? Where do you see the room for improvement? I have my own complaints in this area, but I'd like to hear yours.

You are spot on Martin.

About the handling:  I have always thought the KAW handled like a tank. I did go to a dealer and they lowered the forks a little but it still isn't great.
From the first ride to present, I always felt the bike really doesn't want to lean over and turn into a corner. (IT DOES OF COURSE, but not well.) Once into a corner, it seems difficult to hold the line one bike. Where the FJR would be planted firm like a race bike, the Connie dances around a little.  On the freeway, its not a big deal, on bear tooth pass, it's more so. In short, I cannot ride so hard as to drag knee on the Connie (not that I really want too.) I simply don't have the confidence to do it. I'm afraid I would loose the front or something.
Those are just my thoughts.


Councurbdh- "Did the FJR you rode already have as many personal mods that your C14 does?" Yes, both had peg lowering and risers ect. Very comparable.

[tomp]

From the first ride to present, I always felt the bike really doesn't want to lean over and turn into a corner. (IT DOES OF COURSE, but not well.) Once into a corner, it seems difficult to hold the line one bike.

That has been my experience, too.  I attribute some of it to the 190/50 rear tire.  If it used say a 180/60, a more rounded profile, it may drop into turns without having to use so much force.  I've read the 50 vs 55 threads and not trying to start one here.

I have owned three RT's and while they are nowhere close to the acceleration excitement of a 14, they handle many times better.  Just think "lean" and it does. Using another's words "it rides like it's on rails".  While quite a bit heavier, I like the feel of my current 04RT, over the lighter, more powerdul 12 RT I sold.  I have had no problems with city riding on any of the RT's. 

A friend has a GTL he purchased this summer.  He came off of an Ultra Classic, and agrees that the GTL kicks the snot out of the Harley for power and smooth riding comfort.  Maybe he'll let me ride it some day.  Nah, probably not... tomp

[B.D.F.]

I believe what you are experiencing, with regard to having to push the C-14 down into turns, is due entirely due to the tires. My C-14 will happily drop to any lean angle and stay there without much, if any pressure on the handlebars at all but only when the tires are new, round and properly inflated. As the tires age, this is the first quality that deteriorates and it is much worse on some tires than others (Pirelli Angle STs were horrible in that regard while Michelin Pilot Road 3's were not too bad).

I think given a set of new tires, especially with a -55 series on the back, you will find the bike will happily and effortless drop to any lean angle you want and the 'poor handling' you are experiencing will disappear entirely. The C-14 actually handles quite well for a bike of its size and IMO, better and more nimbly than a Feejer.

Brian

That has been my experience, too.  I attribute some of it to the 190/50 rear tire.  If it used say a 180/60, a more rounded profile, it may drop into turns without having to use so much force.  I've read the 50 vs 55 threads and not trying to start one here.

I have owned three RT's and while they are nowhere close to the acceleration excitement of a 14, they handle many times better.  Just think "lean" and it does. Using another's words "it rides like it's on rails".  While quite a bit heavier, I like the feel of my current 04RT, over the lighter, more powerdul 12 RT I sold.  I have had no problems with city riding on any of the RT's. 

A friend has a GTL he purchased this summer.  He came off of an Ultra Classic, and agrees that the GTL kicks the snot out of the Harley for power and smooth riding comfort.  Maybe he'll let me ride it some day.  Nah, probably not... tomp

[tomp]

I have OEM sized Z8's on front and rear, with 2400 miles on them.  The rear is just starting to show the perverbial 1 1/2" flat spot in the rear tire's center, but handling has been the same since the tires were installed.  I will go to a 55 series and probably a PR3 or 4, instead, when a new rear is needed. 

[AlbertaDoug]

I replaced the stones on my 14 with PR4 GTs and the change was noticeably in the first corner. I initially thought the factory tires on my 2014 were acceptable for the size and weight of the bike. The Gts cleared that up for me, they eliminated the wallowing and minimized the effort to hold a line with being easy to tip in. A few shuttle changes to the suspension have helped make even better tracking. I've pushed my bike pretty hard in the twisties and felt safe, no concern of loosing the front. She's a big girl but it definitely handles better then I initially thought she might. I didn't want a sport bike just a nice comfortable highway bike and I got what I wanted with the 14.
On a side note I only wish I had a switch to shut off the linked brakes. That's where the 2008 has it's advantage. The TC I can deal with, I have another bike for being a hulgan. 

[B.D.F.]

I have not used Metzler's on the bike but 2,400 miles on Angel ST's and the handling would be fairly deteriorated without the rear tire showing any significant flatting.

Just for chuckles, see if you can find a C-14 that you could ride with relatively new (less than 500 miles) Angel STs, or either Angel GTs or PR 3 or PR4's with less than, say, 3,000 miles on them and I think you will find a really significant difference in how the bike handles.

Brian

I have OEM sized Z8's on front and rear, with 2400 miles on them.  The rear is just starting to show the perverbial 1 1/2" flat spot in the rear tire's center, but handling has been the same since the tires were installed.  I will go to a 55 series and probably a PR3 or 4, instead, when a new rear is needed.

[Daytona_Mike]

I have ridden all of the above bikes. the first thing I can tell you is the stock springs and shocks on the C14 are poor at best.  You can send out the existing shocks for re-spring and re-valve-ing or  just replace them with good adjustable shocks like Ohlins, Penske and Ak20's. Once you do that then get the sag settings correct and now you got a bike that drops into a turn and holds the lines like it was on rails. (as long as you get rid of those stock tires)
The GTL cant hold a candle to the C14's power , speed and cornering abilities   except maybe in the braking dept but which the C14 is no slouch either. The GTL is a very clunky shifting bike and a great tourer but not so great in the sport dept.
The FJR is a great handling  bike but with out a Slipper clutch and a 6th gear it does not warrant my consideration. No bike with the word Sport in it should be without a slipper clutch and  yes the 1600 does have a slipper.

[Mister Tee]

I've owned a 1200RT before the Connie, and I think it is a very well handling bike, especially at low speed.  I still think the C14 dominates in high speed handling.  The thing about the RT is it's both lighter and has a lower CG, which make it a joy to do sharp u turns and parking lot maneuvers.  The other thing is the controls just feel less stiff.  Smoother, easier to turn throttle, and lighter clutch pull.

[PeteTN_zgtr]

I have not used Metzler's on the bike but 2,400 miles on Angel ST's and the handling would be fairly deteriorated without the rear tire showing any significant flatting.

Just for chuckles, see if you can find a C-14 that you could ride with relatively new (less than 500 miles) Angel STs, or either Angel GTs or PR 3 or PR4's with less than, say, 3,000 miles on them and I think you will find a really significant difference in how the bike handles.

Brian

I agree, some tires don't wear well especially on a heavy bike. I bought the Dunlop Roadsmarts on sale last summer (with 50 rear) and they were decent when new but bad at 5k. Turns better on right handers than left and the front has a raised ridge with uneven wear. I'll try Angels or Michelins next time.

Had an Angel ST on the front of my cbr1000f. Just putting that on the front (Conti-attack on rear with about 1000 miles at the time) greatly the improved the handling. Very neutral; held a line really well without much bar input.  Still handled great with 5k miles on that tire when I sold it. Not worn much at all and still very round. That bike only weighed about 50lbs less than a C14 (had full Givi luggage on it) so I think it's not just the weight that uses up tires quickly on C14s.
 This is speculation but I think as D_Mike mentioned the suspension on these bikes is not great, way too stiff (springs and comp. damping) and I suspect that's using up the front tire quicker.

[dw4402]

I have to chime in here. I have had Corrine (2008 C14) since August of 2007 and have run several tire brands on her since then. The worse, by far, were the stock stones. They stunk and didn't last long. The best for absolute handling are a tie between the PR2's and PR4's. I've had Avons, Continentals, Dunlops and of course Michelins. As far as handling goes, you have to run the tires at the factory recommended pressures of 42 42 otherwise she will feel sluggish. I have gone to Deals Gap with her every year that I have owned her and I have plenty of proof that she handles better than anything you can throw at her, on public roads. To say the FJR handles way better, I have to disagree based on my time riding both a 2008 FJR and my own bike. I have also had extensive time on a 2008 BMW RT and the only reason that bike handles slow speed better is due to the shorter wheelbase. I actually felt the RT was more top heavy than the C14 but both the FJR and RT have better feeling clutches, they have a better engagement zone than the C14. I have not ridden the 1600 so I can't comment on that bike.

[martin_14]

I actually felt the RT was more top heavy than the C14 but both the FJR and RT have better feeling clutches, they have a better engagement zone than the C14. I have not ridden the 1600 so I can't comment on that bike.

Agree on all counts. And the engagement zone on the K1600 will drive you nuts. The biting point is... I don't know... elusive? 

[FIX UR CRITTER]

You are spot on Martin.

About the handling:  I have always thought the KAW handled like a tank. I did go to a dealer and they lowered the forks a little but it still isn't great.
From the first ride to present, I always felt the bike really doesn't want to lean over and turn into a corner. (IT DOES OF COURSE, but not well.) Once into a corner, it seems difficult to hold the line one bike. Where the FJR would be planted firm like a race bike, the Connie dances around a little.  On the freeway, its not a big deal, on bear tooth pass, it's more so. In short, I cannot ride so hard as to drag knee on the Connie (not that I really want too.) I simply don't have the confidence to do it. I'm afraid I would loose the front or something.
Those are just my thoughts.

Funny you say this about the connie and that the FJR was better.. I felt the exact same way but in reverse.The FJR to me was unsettling in corners. I felt like Rossi on the connie. I think it has as much to do with tires and suspension set up as with the bike itself..

[connie14boy]

Funny you say this about the connie and that the FJR was better.. I felt the exact same way but in reverse.The FJR to me was unsettling in corners. I felt like Rossi on the connie. I think it has as much to do with tires and suspension set up as with the bike itself..

Anyone complaining about the C-14 handling doesn't understand that the bike needs a "sag set" dialed in to that individual's weight and a proper set of PR2's or PR4's with a '55' rear tire aspect ratio- then the big Connie will boogie. The 021 Crapstones should be dumpsterized a.s.a.p.

[C14lvr]

Anyone complaining about the C-14 handling doesn't understand that the bike needs a "sag set" dialed in to that individual's weight and a proper set of PR2's or PR4's with a '55' rear tire aspect ratio- then the big Connie will boogie. The 021 Crapstones should be dumpsterized a.s.a.p.

+1! I totally agree with this post!

[JhVenezuela]

Anyone complaining about the C-14 handling doesn't understand that the bike needs a "sag set" dialed in to that individual's weight and a proper set of PR2's or PR4's with a '55' rear tire aspect ratio- then the big Connie will boogie. The 021 Crapstones should be dumpsterized a.s.a.p.

+1 Me too, specially about 55 rear tire PR2 or 3