2011/12 C14 vs. 2012 Ninja 1000 ABS

[ZG]

Lots of days the C14 sits while the old scoots get ridden.  Each bike has different qualities, but they are all a joy to ride.

+1 to that, same here. 
 
I love steak, but I also love seafood, I wouldn't want to only eat one every day... 

[jjsC6]

It is not really a valid comparison for most people.  They are two TOTALLY different types of bikes in different classes. 

You also left off many other Cons of the Ninja 1000, such as:

*Chain drive, which is much more maintenance.
*No traction control
*No variable valve timing
*Smaller alternator
*Probably have considerably less torque/grunt (despite being lighter)
*Shorter wheelbase (worse ride for long distance)
*Probably more vibration (no gear driven balancers)
*No KIPASS (although that might not matter to some)
*No analog speedometer
*Less other instrumentation and control
*FAR FAR worse warranty than the C14

The "less torque/grunt" does not actually hold up.  In large part because of the gearing, the Ninja accelerates like a raped ape.  It turns a LOT of rpms even in sixth gear.   Many people are actually gearing them down.  When I rode my friends, I was grinning ear to ear accelerating in sixth gear.  I'd say it accelerates as hard in sixth gear as the Concours does in fourth - or maybe even third.  If there is any lack of midrange, it is more than made up for in gearing.

[maxtog]

The "less torque/grunt" does not actually hold up.  In large part because of the gearing, the Ninja accelerates like a raped ape.  It turns a LOT of rpms even in sixth gear.   Many people are actually gearing them down.  When I rode my friends, I was grinning ear to ear accelerating in sixth gear.  I'd say it accelerates as hard in sixth gear as the Concours does in fourth - or maybe even third.  If there is any lack of midrange, it is more than made up for in gearing.

I am not an expert in it for sure.  But the C14 is, afterall, a much larger engine (40%!) and variable valve timing to boot.  The way it is tuned and geared, it should be able to dump considerably more power at lower RPM than the Ninja 1000.

[Shoe]

Has anyone compared these 2 bikes? Cons:
-no bags (although soft bags aren't all that expensive and one less thing to get scratched up)
-less wind protection
-heated grips not standard but can be added
-no electrical plug
-probably not as comfortable for longer rides

Add no center stand to your list. And not available. Add no abs. And not available. I still have my 08 C14. I liked all of the pros, but didn't like want the cons.

[lt1]

Add no center stand to your list. And not available. Add no abs. And not available. I still have my 08 C14. I liked all of the pros, but didn't like want the cons.

It looks like you haven't been paying attention, friend.  This thread is about the 2012 Ninja 1000 ABS. http://kawasaki.com/Products/Product-Specifications.aspx?scid=6&id=568

Not only does it have ABS, it has non-linked ABS.   

[martin_14]

*Chain drive, which is much more maintenance.
I like the "use and forget" factor of the shaft, but wouldn't dismiss a bike because it has chain. I had a great experience with a Scottoiler (which I modified to give me 8000 km/5000 miles between refills).

*No traction control
Good point. For some. I have it built in (in my right wrist) but I'd like to have it, just like ABS. It's a safety net in case I oversee sand or other things. So far I spun my C14 three times and all were underwear changing experiences. Fortunately I didn't go down.

*No variable valve timing
So what? Can somebody here honestly feel anything? Specially with those damn secondary butterflies.

*Smaller alternator
GPS and grips don't take much.

*Probably have considerably less torque/grunt (despite being lighter)
Nope, and nope. Gearing helps, not because the 1000 is shortly geared, but because the C14 is impressively long geared. All other bikes that I ride (I tried at least 30 different this year alone) are 20% shorter geared than the C14.

*Shorter wheelbase (worse ride for long distance)
Good point.

*Probably more vibration (no gear driven balancers)
VERY good point, particularly for a "sensitive" guy like me. I just loathe vibs.

*No KIPASS (although that might not matter to some)
Give me a break. That alone would make me buy the Ninja 1000.

*No analog speedometer
I hate digital speedos, but I guess I could accommodate.

*Less other instrumentation and control
Yeap, those are entertaining AND useful, specially the TPS.

*FAR FAR worse warranty than the C14
VERY good point, but the Ninja seems like a simpler, more proven bike with less things to go wrong.

[jjsC6]

I am not an expert in it for sure.  But the C14 is, afterall, a much larger engine (40%!) and variable valve timing to boot.  The way it is tuned and geared, it should be able to dump considerably more power at lower RPM than the Ninja 1000.

I don't claim to know the difference in the torque curves, but I do know how the bikes run.  You'll feel like you are on a turd when you get off the Ninja and back on the Concours.  I know a lot about such things, and I realize it is about more than just the power curve in this case - it's also about the weight of the bikes and the gearing.  But the reasons don't really matter as much as the results.

BTW, I rode a ZX-14 recently.  That is another bike that will make a Concours feel like a turd - especially in mid range acceleration.  I knew the bike was a lot faster, but what I didn't expect was how much more low and midrange punch is has than the Concours.  Night and day difference.

[lather]

If I could only have one bike the Ninja 1000 fitted for top case and hard saddle bags might be my choice over the C14.

[tin-tin]

Might just be my thing but I dont really like to talk strait up HP/Torque numbers alone when comparing bike to bike without considering weight. The C14 probably can kick out alot more power but it has to get an extra couple hundred pounds in motion so in real life riding I find it considerably slower than the 1000 even with the extra HP/Torque.

The shaft drive is pretty much maintenance free but it is nice to be able to change the gearing of a chain. You can gear it pretty much how you want for pretty cheap which is nice.

They are just so different of bikes. It would really depend on what I did more. Strait up distance or fun shorter rides.

[cltsig]

This is exactly the type of back and forth I was hoping for.  Hadn't thought of everything in such detail.  Regarding some of the cons debated, is it worth $3k less to get to Ninja and have those cons?  Then again, soft bags, electrical out and heated grips could be close to $1k so the gap is closing.  What to do, what to do.

Anyone know when the Ninja ABS comes out?  I can sit on a non-ABS at the local stealer but wondered when my purchase could go through on either.

[rcannon409]

I ended up in a similar situation.  Not exactly as I had my eye on a used c14 so I saved a lot of money in not going with the Ninja 1000.  At the time I could not ride the Ninja, but have since.

The Ninja seat and windshield are not very good.  The passenger accommodations are  pretty basic as well.

Performance?  In this thread it appears the Ninja is faster, but I've yet to see  a magazine test that showed this. Actually, in all measures the c14 holds a small power advantage.  When it comes to torque, it has a big advantage.

I really wanted the Ninja, but after riding one I'm glad I ended up with the c14. Thats FOR ME.  The wind protection of the c14 means an extra two months of riding per year.

But, before you fall in love with either, do one thing. Call your insurance agent and get a quote for the yearly premium.   Some bikes become very attractive once this is figured in to the deal.  My C-14 is dirt-cheap compared to something that fit into the "sport bike" category.  A money savings that is enough to pay most of the bike payment.

[jjsC6]

I ended up in a similar situation.  Not exactly as I had my eye on a used c14 so I saved a lot of money in not going with the Ninja 1000.  At the time I could not ride the Ninja, but have since.

The Ninja seat and windshield are not very good.  The passenger accommodations are  pretty basic as well.

Performance?  In this thread it appears the Ninja is faster, but I've yet to see  a magazine test that showed this. Actually, in all measures the c14 holds a small power advantage.  When it comes to torque, it has a big advantage.

I really wanted the Ninja, but after riding one I'm glad I ended up with the c14. Thats FOR ME.  The wind protection of the c14 means an extra two months of riding per year.

But, before you fall in love with either, do one thing. Call your insurance agent and get a quote for the yearly premium.   Some bikes become very attractive once this is figured in to the deal.  My C-14 is dirt-cheap compared to something that fit into the "sport bike" category.  A money savings that is enough to pay most of the bike payment.

There have been plenty of tests on the Ninja.  It most definitely is faster than the Concours.  But I stress what I said earlier - the Ninja is worlds more responsive due to it's gearing and weight advantage.   I've gone through several magazine tests I have on both the Concours and the Ninja 1000 (and it's soulmate, the Z1000).  The Ninja is a solid 1/2 second and five mph faster in the 1/4 mile.  That is very significant in drag racing terms.

[gonzosc1]

well can't find any track testing of the C14, but I'll show the test between the 2012 zx14 and the zx10r on the 1/4 mile. the zx14r turns 146mph stock, the zx10r turns 144mph stock. bolt on mods the zx10r get to 156mph. 


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/c3pM0hKvQWw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WLlrnh3qYkQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[maxtog]

*Chain drive, which is much more maintenance.
I like the "use and forget" factor of the shaft, but wouldn't dismiss a bike because it has chain. I had a great experience with a Scottoiler (which I modified to give me 8000 km/5000 miles between refills).

For me, the shaft drive was a HUGE plus.  I *hated* chains.  They were always rusting, needing to be greased, needing adjustment, wearing out sprockets, flinging debris around, making me worry they would fail and take me down, etc.  I just love the shaft drive.

*No variable valve timing
So what? Can somebody here honestly feel anything? Specially with those damn secondary butterflies.

It adds to the overall power available.  In and of itself, it is not really an advantage, other than the total package.

*Smaller alternator
GPS and grips don't take much.

But if you want heated seat, grips, jacket, extra lighting, extra electronics, etc, it can be an issue.

...*No KIPASS (although that might not matter to some)
Give me a break. That alone would make me buy the Ninja 1000.

LOL   I don't hate Kipass, but I also don't see it as any real advantage either.  It WOULD be a HUGE advantage if it included unlocking the baggage, the gas tank, glove box, and didn't require mucking around with the "key" anyway.

*No analog speedometer
I hate digital speedos, but I guess I could accommodate.

I was just listing everything I could think of.  Some people won't care.  Me?  I *HATE* digital-only speedometers or tachometers.  I would prefer to have both, but never just digital.

[maxtog]

Performance?  In this thread it appears the Ninja is faster, but I've yet to see  a magazine test that showed this. Actually, in all measures the c14 holds a small power advantage.  When it comes to torque, it has a big advantage.

It falls a lot to what others were saying.  In specs, and despite the weight, the C-14 will win in many straightline performance comparisons (barely).  But I bet the Ninja might still *feel* faster (even though it is not)- certainly more nimble, and will out-corner too.

From my compiled data:
Concours:  0-60, 2.90 sec  1/4mi in 10.76sec
Ninja1000: 0-60. 2.91 sec  1/4mi in 10.81sec

(Note: there are plenty of variation in different sources)
(Note2: the Ninja times are NON-ABS.  With ABS, it will be heavier and slightly slower)

[rcannon409]

There have been plenty of tests on the Ninja.  It most definitely is faster than the Concours.  But I stress what I said earlier - the Ninja is worlds more responsive due to it's gearing and weight advantage.   I've gone through several magazine tests I have on both the Concours and the Ninja 1000 (and it's soulmate, the Z1000).  The Ninja is a solid 1/2 second and five mph faster in the 1/4 mile.  That is very significant in drag racing terms.

Actually, both Sport Rider and Motorcyclist show faster times for the Conscours 14.    If you look at the test of the 1000 Ninja, in the 4-11 Sport Rider it shows a time of 11.30 and speed of 123.46. The Concours 14, tested 6-08 by the same mag, shows a time of 10.52@130.5, a eternity in drag racing. 

Cycle World shows the 2011 Concours 14 running an 11.03@121.42 in that test against the new BMW. 

The c14 does tend to get worked in the tests due to the extra-tall 6th gear and most test roll on performance in 6th.  I would be for Kawasaki throwing about 3/4 of the electronics in the garbage, however.

[wally_games]

"Cycle World shows the 2011 Concours 14 running an 11.03@121.42 in that test against the new BMW."

But you only need two, maybe three gears to run that quarter mile. 

+1 on the sixth gear roll-on from 60 mph. HORRIBLE. 

[EpicBadass]

<snip>

But, before you fall in love with either, do one thing. Call your insurance agent and get a quote for the yearly premium.   Some bikes become very attractive once this is figured in to the deal.  My C-14 is dirt-cheap compared to something that fit into the "sport bike" category.  A money savings that is enough to pay most of the bike payment.

I totally forgot about this.  I had a friend of mine get quoted on the ninja 1000 when i bought my C14 and he was around 2000/year with a clean record.  Not only am I about 5 years younger i only pay roughly 600/year for the C14

[jjsC6]

It falls a lot to what others were saying.  In specs, and despite the weight, the C-14 will win in many straightline performance comparisons (barely).  But I bet the Ninja might still *feel* faster (even though it is not)- certainly more nimble, and will out-corner too.

From my compiled data:
Concours:  0-60, 2.90 sec  1/4mi in 10.76sec
Ninja1000: 0-60. 2.91 sec  1/4mi in 10.81sec

(Note: there are plenty of variation in different sources)
(Note2: the Ninja times are NON-ABS.  With ABS, it will be heavier and slightly slower)

Max, that is by far the fastest Concours time I have seen, and I have not seen a Ninja 1000 time that slow - where did you get it?  I have several tests of both bikes and that data is not nearly what I find to be the "norm".

I have a Cycle World in front of me right now that shows the Ninja 1000 at 10.5 and 128.5.  Another Cycle world shows the Z1000 which is a virtually identical bike mechanically at 10.38 at 130.4.  Another Cycle World shows the Concours at 11.03 at 121.42.  Keep in mind that I'm using the same magazine.  I've seen similar difference in other magazines, but I don't have them in front of me right now.

[maxtog]

Max, that is by far the fastest Concours time I have seen, and I have not seen a Ninja 1000 time that slow - where did you get it?  I have several tests of both bikes and that data is not nearly what I find to be the "norm".

I have a Cycle World in front of me right now that shows the Ninja 1000 at 10.5 and 128.5.  Another Cycle world shows the Z1000 which is a virtually identical bike mechanically at 10.38 at 130.4.  Another Cycle World shows the Concours at 11.03 at 121.42.  Keep in mind that I'm using the same magazine.  I've seen similar difference in other magazines, but I don't have them in front of me right now.

I really wish I had saved the links, since I have several numbers.  It is maddening.    I did confirm it in more than one place before keeping the number, but I had other numbers too.  But same thing for the 1000.

Look up just a few posts from this: " The Concours 14, tested 6-08 by the same mag, shows a time of 10.52".

I guess the real point to take home is: the numbers tent to vary some, but the Concours 14's acceleration/speed is easily very similar to the Ninja 1000.