Anyone Have "FI" Error Code ?

[maxtog]

Where did I say it stood for fuel injection?

Then *I* will, because I am pretty sure "FI" does, indeed, stand for "Fuel Injection".   That doesn't, however, mean that an "FI ERROR" indicates an error in the Fuel Injection system.  That is because traditionally the ECU's only purpose WAS fuel injection and over the years it has gained lots of additional sensors and responsibilities.  They probably should have reprogrammed it to say "ECU ERROR" or "SYSTEM ERROR" or whatever.

[ralphn0]

Thanks to everyone for their responce.  I didn't know how to search for answers to my questions.  I just happen to someone else's question about "FI Error Code" but when I tried to respond a few days later I couldn't find the post about the "FI Error Code."  Out of frustration I just posted the question for some help. 
I installed a J & M CB radio sys. with a Zumo 660, Valentine 1 radar detector, convirted the headlights to HID, changed all the lights to the best LED's I could find. added adittional LED to the GIVI E55 trunk, a pair of Whalen Linz 6 police lights and a couple of custom made LED brake lights.  I installed ALL these same things on my old 07 Honda ST1300 and I didn't have any problems like the C-14!!!  I was in the process of installing the last set of LED's on the trunk when I went to test them and the bike would not start.  I got the "FI Error Code".  I asked for help and advice from some friends and they pretty much all recommended I have it towed to the K-dealer.  I didn't know if I had caused the problem or not.  I asked them to repair the problem but they told me they couldn't get their test equipment to respond to the 3 ecu's.  They called in a Kawasaki rep. and you can guess what he said.  "It was all my fault because all my accessories and crapy installation fried the main ecu."  I don't know how to respond to things like that so I accepted responsibility.  I didn't know if they were wrong or I was wrong.  They got very frustrated spending many hours on a problem they couldn't solve.  They replaced the ECU and at least the bike would run.  I was asked to pick up the bike and drive as is and not worry about it.  I paid the bill and rode home.  When I got home I checked the fuses and found 2 fuses blown that had not blown before.  I made note of which 2 they were then I began searching for solutions.  I got intouch with a very distinguished Electrical Engr. that is VERY knowlegable about C-14's.  We spent many days trying to figure out what happened.  We never could solve the problem.  I don't know what I did but I was able to fix the blown fuses and all of my accessories work.....but I can't turn on the ignition switch once and get it to start.  The "FI Error Code " come on and I have to turn it off then on again before it will start.  I thought it was the fault of the ECU on the ignition switch but after reading the messages from you guys, now I wonder about what's going on and maybe I didn't screw things up!!!  I still don't what to do or how to respond to the upper levels of Kawasaki for some answers and possibly a refund.   HELP!!!  Any Ideas???

[VirginiaJim]

I installed ALL these same things on my old 07 Honda ST1300 and I didn't have any problems like the C-14!!!

The key word here is 'old 07 Honda ST1300'.  This isn't your grandma's electrical system on the C14.  It uses CanBus technology and while very modern it can dislike electrical additions such as farkles.  You have to be careful where you splice in and the connections have to be super good otherwise the gremlins can get in.

I agree with the dealer on this one (very rare for me to say that as you did the farkelizations and the bike wouldn't start after that).  It's unfortunate for sure, though. 

My only advice that I can give is to remove all the accessories and see if the starting problem goes away.  We've seen bad grounds cause all kinds of mischief.  You have to be careful where you ground this baby.  Get a meter and make darn sure you have a good connection back to the negative terminal of the battery.  The rear end of the bike has been notorious for poor grounds (using aftermarket farkles).

[VirginiaJim]

Then *I* will, because I am pretty sure "FI" does, indeed, stand for "Fuel Injection".   That doesn't, however, mean that an "FI ERROR" indicates an error in the Fuel Injection system.  That is because traditionally the ECU's only purpose WAS fuel injection and over the years it has gained lots of additional sensors and responsibilities.  They probably should have reprogrammed it to say "ECU ERROR" or "SYSTEM ERROR" or whatever.

Or 'Computer says NO'

[maxtog]

It almost sounds like you are having a harness fault (short) somewhere.  Or, they could be right- you might have done something that caused horrible interference or damage.  But, as you might suspect, there is not much we are going to be able to tell you.  You are correct that electrical problems can be one of the biggest nightmares on a vehicle.

I have only seen one report of a harness problem on the board.  Although occasional, "instant FI Errors" are common and apparently harmless, I have never seen a report like yours before.

[VirginiaJim]

Interestingly enough, Kwak refers to the entire system as DFI or Digital Fuel Injection.  The FI error refers to 'Fuel Injection' but that system encompasses virtually everything 'fuel management wise'.  In looking through my 08 manual this includes everything associated with fuel including the ECU.

I never payed any attention to this paragraph but this may explain the FI intermittent error on the 10+ bikes (we've suspected this all along though, but no proof).

Even when the DFI system is operating normally, the warning indicator light (LED) goes on and the FI indicator warning message and FI warning symbol may be displayed under strong electrical interference.  Additional measures are not required.

So, Kwak is aware of this after all and knew about it (intermittent FI error).  I wonder what's different about the 10+ bikes that's different from the 08/09s, besides them (08/09s) being faster and all.

[C1xRider]

Interestingly enough, Kwak refers to the entire system as DFI or Digital Fuel Injection.  The FI error refers to 'Fuel Injection' but that system encompasses virtually everything 'fuel management wise'.  In looking through my 08 manual this includes everything associated with fuel including the ECU.

I never payed any attention to this paragraph but this may explain the FI intermittent error on the 10+ bikes (we've suspected this all along though, but no proof).

Even when the DFI system is operating normally, the warning indicator light (LED) goes on and the FI indicator warning message and FI warning symbol may be displayed under strong electrical interference.  Additional measures are not required.

So, Kwak is aware of this after all and knew about it (intermittent FI error).  I wonder what's different about the 10+ bikes that's different from the 08/09s, besides them (08/09s) being faster and all.

Jim, I ruled out the "Electrical Interference" excuse long ago.  Sure, it's a *possible* cause, but I've seen FI errors in some very remote places, like the central Wyoming desert, where there wasn't a interference source visible anywhere.  I think these intermittent errors are caused buy simple communication bus timing errors (collisions in the networking world).  I've logged every one I've seen on my bike, looking for any correlation, but have not found one yet.

[VirginiaJim]

So you've totally ruled out space aliens?  That wouldn't account for the desert with them running a cloaking device...

[lather]

I have this theory that if you turn the Stove Knob with something less than impeccable precision an electrical disturbance is generated at that millisecond during which the switch is confused about being off or on which can interefere with the KIPASS system. Possible symptoms include the instant FI message, low tranponder battery message or partially stuck display graphic. I have no scientific basis for this theory just my own experience and an uneducated guess.

[VirginiaJim]

Yep, that's up there with my space alien theory..

[ralphn0]

I've been warned to "review my post".  Am I making a mistake in asking for help?  Thats the message I am reading in bold Red Letters above my Post Reply.  If I am doing something wrong please tell me.  I have no intention of hurting anyone!!!

I have not mentioned all the details about all the work that has been to try and solve the problem.  One of the thing we did was to disconnect EVERTHING I installed including ALL LED bulbs in the turn signals,parking lights, brake lights, aux. driving lights, HID headlights,  J & M CB radio, Zumo GPS and it's MP3 player, and radar detector!!!  Not only disconnected from the battery but also removed from it's socket AND we still had the same "FI Error Code".  I also pressed the 2 buttons to find more precisely which error code number it was refering to is 38.  38 is listed on page 17-12 of my service manual "System KIPASS, ECU communication error."  On page 17-62 a little more information is given about Service Code 38.  I am very aware about the CAN-Bus sys. but I don't any about how to trouble shoot the problem.  My good friend wrote the article about the CAN Bus system in the Spring issue of The Concourier.  We  tried to shield a variety of areas (and grounding the shield) around the ECU's and the CAN Bus wires (light Blue).  Still with everything disconnected, it didn't change a thing.  The FI Error code still comming up.  The ground wire subject was also addressed and altered still no change.  The one thing I haven't done but was suggested I do was to change the battery for a new one.  However I did use a car battery as a substitute and that didn't change anything.  One thing that has been brought to my attention is that Kawasaki has NOT done the correct thing in the wiring of the CAN Bus sys.  CAN Bus wires are suppose to be twisted and shielded which they are not.  Is that the problem?  I don't know.  I have not tapped into any CAN Bus wires but I have tried to run my wires away from the CAN Bus wires.  I really wonder if it can only diagnosed and solved by Electrical Engr's or computer designers.  I know it's over my head and I have a lot of experience working live high voltage wiring sys.  I am always open for any suggestions, questions or criticisms on what to do, please let me know.
Thanks,

[B.D.F.]

True that this bike has CAN bus but as a general rule, and as applied to the things that the original poster mentioned adding to the bike, it would not make any difference. In other words, while the bike does have the technology on board and it is used in some places (CAN bus), unless you accidentally cut (read: hack) into that system it would not make any difference in adding farkles. This is very much UNLIKE something like a BMW which uses CAN bus to control turn signals and several other 'normally just 12 volt electrical systems' on their bikes; Kawasaki only uses CAN bus between the main ECU, the KiPass ECU and the instrument panel (and even then only for the gauges and I believe one indicator light). There is no aspect of Kawasaki's use of CAN bus that anyone would ever need or even want to tap into to the best of my knowledge. So in the end, the electrics of a C-14 really can be treated just like any other <non- CAN bus> technology bike such as an ST1300.

To the original poster, I don't even know what to make of what you have posted. The symptom set is not like anything else I have ever heard of. It almost sounds like you may have multiple problems with each one causing specific symptoms that don't correlate to the other problem(s).   I especially cannot understand the need to turn the bike on twice to clear and FI error display screen. Also the blown fuses would indicate that at some time there was at least one short somewhere on the bike and that may have led to some of your current problems (whatever caused the fuse to pop did some other damage and just replacing the fuse did not fix that damage).

This really does sound like a complicated problem to diagnose and while I would gladly help you out of I could, I do not even know where to suggest you start looking for this problem(s). The only thing I would say will sound pretty silly but I would take a meter and start probing around 'just looking' but I do not think anyone could even begin to build a diagnostic plan for whatever you might find along the way. Sorry but I think this one will have to be dealt with 'in the flesh' rather than across the 'Net. I am not saying this because I am trying to shoo you away, just that I don't think you will find any really useful suggestions for such an unusual and logic defying situation.

Best of luck with it though and if you have any specific questions I am sure we will try to help you out as best we can.

Brian

The key word here is 'old 07 Honda ST1300'.  This isn't your grandma's electrical system on the C14.  It uses CanBus technology and while very modern it can dislike electrical additions such as farkles.  You have to be careful where you splice in and the connections have to be super good otherwise the gremlins can get in.

I agree with the dealer on this one (very rare for me to say that as you did the farkelizations and the bike wouldn't start after that).  It's unfortunate for sure, though. 

My only advice that I can give is to remove all the accessories and see if the starting problem goes away.  We've seen bad grounds cause all kinds of mischief.  You have to be careful where you ground this baby.  Get a meter and make darn sure you have a good connection back to the negative terminal of the battery.  The rear end of the bike has been notorious for poor grounds (using aftermarket farkles).

[B.D.F.]

Unless you cut into some incorrect circuits, you should not have tapped into the CAN bus system adding the farkles you listed (or any other farkles available as far as I know). I have been pretty deep into this bike electrically as well as electronically and the CAN bus system is very limited and is nothing anyone would ever need to tap into or alter in any way.

One thing that you might want to look into is the ground system which the communications system does share with the rest of the bike. Again, the CAN bus system is nothing you would have tapped into but it is possible that you might have shorted something and caused a current surge <through> the ground side of the bike and damaged some part that CAN bus also uses. Trying to make that a little more clear: it is not likely that you damaged anything to do with CAN bus but you might have damaged something that CAN bus grounds to or through. I do not believe the lack of twisted pair wiring is causing or even contributing to your current situation.

As far as Kawasaki 'not wiring the bike right'.... it is true that digital communication systems usually do use twisted pairs but that is only because it helps to shield the system from stray electrical noise and not actually required. CAN bus is a fairly slow system, and the C-14 does not have any exposed high- voltage ignition components at all (no exposed coils, no coil wires, no spark plug wires) so it does not seem unreasonable that individual wire runs were used. As a better example I would say that there are something like 15,000 of these bikes in service and the CAN bus' do not seem to be problematic in any way.

One last thought- did the bike work properly before you added the farkles? I do not ask this in any accusatory or adversarial way, only wondering if there is any connection in the occurrence of the alterations done to the bike and the appearance of the problem(s). Just trying to help determine the symptoms, not being critical here.

Brian

I've been warned to "review my post".  Am I making a mistake in asking for help?  Thats the message I am reading in bold Red Letters above my Post Reply.  If I am doing something wrong please tell me.  I have no intention of hurting anyone!!!

I have not mentioned all the details about all the work that has been to try and solve the problem.  One of the thing we did was to disconnect EVERTHING I installed including ALL LED bulbs in the turn signals,parking lights, brake lights, aux. driving lights, HID headlights,  J & M CB radio, Zumo GPS and it's MP3 player, and radar detector!!!  Not only disconnected from the battery but also removed from it's socket AND we still had the same "FI Error Code".  I also pressed the 2 buttons to find more precisely which error code number it was refering to is 38.  38 is listed on page 17-12 of my service manual "System KIPASS, ECU communication error."  On page 17-62 a little more information is given about Service Code 38.  I am very aware about the CAN-Bus sys. but I don't any about how to trouble shoot the problem.  My good friend wrote the article about the CAN Bus system in the Spring issue of The Concourier.  We  tried to shield a variety of areas (and grounding the shield) around the ECU's and the CAN Bus wires (light Blue).  Still with everything disconnected, it didn't change a thing.  The FI Error code still comming up.  The ground wire subject was also addressed and altered still no change.  The one thing I haven't done but was suggested I do was to change the battery for a new one.  However I did use a car battery as a substitute and that didn't change anything.  One thing that has been brought to my attention is that Kawasaki has NOT done the correct thing in the wiring of the CAN Bus sys.  CAN Bus wires are suppose to be twisted and shielded which they are not.  Is that the problem?  I don't know.  I have not tapped into any CAN Bus wires but I have tried to run my wires away from the CAN Bus wires.  I really wonder if it can only diagnosed and solved by Electrical Engr's or computer designers.  I know it's over my head and I have a lot of experience working live high voltage wiring sys.  I am always open for any suggestions, questions or criticisms on what to do, please let me know.
Thanks,

[jayke]

I've been warned to "review my post".  Am I making a mistake in asking for help?  Thats the message I am reading in bold Red Letters above my Post Reply.  If I am doing something wrong please tell me.  I have no intention of hurting anyone!!!

That's just a forum thing to tell you somebody else posted to the topic you were responding to before you posted.   In case you might want to change your post to respond to the newest comments. In short - don't worry about it.

[Z71]

We don't need no stinkin short wire harness to read the codes on this bike.  Assuming the F1 error 'stays', then you can go through some pushbutton sequences to retrieve the sub-code.  Unfortunately with the intermittent F1 error, there is no sub-code to diagnose what causes it.  It flashes up and then is gone without apparent harm to the bike or rider.  It's been a mystery ever since the '10 bikes came out.

Actually, the toggle switch harness is just for convenience. It is sold by Suzuki as a diagnostic tool for about $ 14 for a do-it-yourselfer to retrieve the fault code.   You can simply jumper two terminals on the diagnostic connector to get the same results.   Dealers plug their more advanced diagnostic equipment to the same connector.  On the B King, the "FI" symbol is also the universal trouble symbol for all kinds of electrical or fuel related faults, even a badly discharged battery will throw a flashing "FI" symbol.  I think this is the case with most modern fuel injected bikes.  The "FI" symbol  takes the place of the "engine check" light on a modern car.

I am glad I have not had any reason to diagnose any faults on my C14 yet.  I do have a shop manual, so I would find out how to read the codes.

[stewart]

Not 100% on topic, but related. I haven't experienced a F1 error in a long long time, if I tried to remember it would have been before my Ghul Flash (that's how good it is).

But as I was blasting up to ME today, I rode past a Merc SUV and whammo, F1 Error. If I wasn't trying to catch up to the wife in the car I would have slowed down and experimented.

[gPink]

Any correllation between the error code and vehicles with collision avoidance systems?

List of cars with collision avoidance features available
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision_avoidance_system#List_of_cars_with_collision_avoidance_features_available
 
This transport-related list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
 Acura RL
 BMW 750Li (warning, "adaptive cruise control")
 BMW 3 Series ("adaptive cruise control")
 Cadillac DTS ("adaptive cruise control")
 Ford Taurus
 Honda Accord (European version)
 Infiniti FX, EX, QX56
 
Mazda CX9
 Mercedes-Benz E Class
 Mercedes-Benz S Class
 Volvo S60, V60, XC60, V70, XC70, S80
 SsangYong Rexton
 Toyota Prius series 3
 
This car has a "pre-collision system" that applies brakes and retracts seatbelts but it doesn't prepare the brakes:
 Lexus ES

[maxtog]

Any correllation between the error code and vehicles with collision avoidance systems?

I have had only a handful of FI errors.  But I do tend to remember at least a few where I was nowhere near any other vehicles.

You also neglected to mention Infiniti, which has optional adaptive cruise (my G37S has it).  Of course, like many systems, it is laser based, so I am not sure how that could cause any interference.

[B.D.F.]

I have had a little more correspondence with Ralph and learned a couple of things. The trouble started after he installed a Signal Dynamics tri star. Others have tried to use this and similar items on C-14s without success in the past because KiPass also actuates the turn signal lights and apparently the two devices 'argue'. That said, I have looked at the schematic and cannot see how anything tied into the turn signal system at any point, including a full short to ground, could cause any results as the ECU is isolated from the turn signals by a relay.

Ralph did mention though that the bike was continuously popping fuses on the Accessory circuit but that he had not wired anything into that circuit. But after re- working some of his earlier connections the fuses stopped blowing. That leads me to believe that something was miss- wired into the accessory circuit even if it was done by accident and unknowingly. If that is the case, it really would make it almost impossible to logically diagnose the problem(s) because after all, where do you start looking for a mistake?

My only suggestion was that he try the RFID operation of the fob and see if the bike will start on the first turn on the key. If it does, then that would tend to indicate a problem somewhere in the RF side of KiPass. Not much of a diagnosis but it is all I can come up with.

Finally it might be necessary to remove everything electrical that was added to the bike and carefully inspect and re- work every single electrical connection originally made. Ralph mentioned that he used both 3M connectors (I assume Scotch lock type) as well as posi- taps; the dealer suggested he re- work the connections by soldering them. I would basically agree with that if the problem cannot be found otherwise; each connection should be carefully soldered and insulated as the accessories are removed. Once that is complete the bike will either operate correctly or not but at least there would not be any outside electrical device or faulty electrical connections adding to the symptoms.

I think this is a challenging problem and in the end, it will take fair amount of careful analysis and electrical work to eliminate the problem(s). It might be best to have someone skilled in electrical work either do the re-work outright or at least take a look when Ralph is done so that any small mistakes are caught and hopefully eliminated. No insult to Ralph but it does take a bit of time to develop the skills needed to make very reliable and weatherproof electrical connections and it is really hard to gain those skills alone and worse yet, 'on the job'.

I just wanted to pass this info. along to those on the forum who may be following this thread.

Brian