Rostra Cruise will not always reengage

[xsv]

....continuing the saga and keeping everyone with similar problems updated.  I went after Brian's theory about too much slack.  I found significant slack.  I would guess close to 3/8 of an inch.  I took the slack down to about 1/8" per the install instructions.

I took Fartymarty's suggestion and wired in a reset button.  I just happened to have a heated grip switch laying around and just happen to have a plugged hole on the dash to fit the button.  Now if the problem shall arise I can at least reset it with the push of the button instead of turning the bike off at 80 mph.

In about 2 weeks I will be heading out on a 3200 mile trip to to the Grand Canyon, over to Vegas and then cut into the Pacific Coast Highway just North of Los Angeles and head North back to Washington State.

I will report back with the results of the slack adjustment.

[wendel]

i noticed on my unit, ifI push the resume switch too long it will accelerate instead of return to the prior speed and likewise with the other buttons. I had to get used to quickly touching the set button and resume button. Too long on the reset button and it will go in the coast mode. Maybe this information will help.

[xsv]

Having returned from my trip I have learned the following; even with the slack removed, the unit continued to have the intermittent issue.  The reset button was great to have when the unit was not engaging like it should.

However, I modified my route and drove a little over a 1000 miles today returning home.  The Rostra had to have been engaged and disengaged a 100 times.  It worked perfectly.  I really hate inconsistent problems. No adjustments were made after its lackluster performance on the way down to the desert.

Just wanted to update others that are having similar problems...bottom line I don't have a freakin' clue!  

....continuing the saga and keeping everyone with similar problems updated.  I went after Brian's theory about too much slack.  I found significant slack.  I would guess close to 3/8 of an inch.  I took the slack down to about 1/8" per the install instructions.

I took Fartymarty's suggestion and wired in a reset button.  I just happened to have a heated grip switch laying around and just happen to have a plugged hole on the dash to fit the button.  Now if the problem shall arise I can at least reset it with the push of the button instead of turning the bike off at 80 mph.

In about 2 weeks I will be heading out on a 3200 mile trip to to the Grand Canyon, over to Vegas and then cut into the Pacific Coast Highway just North of Los Angeles and head North back to Washington State.

I will report back with the results of the slack adjustment.

[rocknrod]

So bringing up and old post - I find that "sometimes" I cannot get the Rostra to re-engage also. While on these lonely Nevada roads I shut the bike off and back on and then I can get the unit to engage. Has anyone found a cure yet?

[just gone]

Has anyone found a cure yet?

No cure here, but not the exact same problem either.
It still happens to me after I've accelerated to pass and then hit the brake for some reason before I've returned down to the set speed. The resume/accel and the set buttons are just ignored at that point and the Rostra seems to be in "tilt" mode. I don't have to turn the bike off however, I just turn off the Rostra with the power off button and give it a slow 10 count and power it back up and reset speed. Hitting the set button too soon after it's powered up doesn't work either, give it a second or two to "boot up", it's more like an old Pentium than an i7.
The engaged light I installed helps me determine when this happens more quickly and saves me some time in the reset. I've often wondered if there is an automatic reset, that is if I were to just handle the throttle for 5 minutes on my own, would I be able to then use the set function without the power down of the Rostra? So far I've been too impatient to test it.

Despite this occasional problem I still love my Rostra. 

[rocknrod]

... I've often wondered if there is an automatic reset, that is if I were to just handle the throttle for 5 minutes on my own, would I be able to then use the set function without the power down of the Rostra? So far I've been too impatient to test it.

I have a throttle thingy that attaches to my throttle and rests against the brake lever and I have used it when the unit goes on the blitz. Still doesn't reset latter, I have to turn the bike off and then on again.

[B.D.F.]

I cannot help with the failure to re- engage issues as I have not had them; than again, I never, ever use the clutch to disengage the unit instead always using the brake light.

As far as the delay between turning the unit on (Easy Boys!) and being able to engage it, that has a logical reason and is not  a fault or flaw. The unit needs some time to accumulate historical data on the vehicle's speed and that data gathering does not start until the unit is powered up, and it takes a few seconds to have all the data in place. Electronic units such as this one use an average of data points, not the last sample of vehicle speed directly; this is done to reduce or hopefully eliminate any spurious noise or loss of data. As an example, suppose the Rostra sampled the vehicle's speed ever 0.5 seconds and made adjustments accordingly. One 'noisy' reading and the unit could suddenly try to accelerate the vehicle to the set speed of, say, 70 MPH, from the current speed of, say, 20 MPH which would result in quite the throttle opening.

Another reason why data needs to be collected is so that the unit can compensate for a small error that has gone on too long- such as might happen when climbing a long but shallow grade. The vehicle may be down by, say, 3 MPH and the Rostra would have to open the throttle further than it would on a flat road but the only way for it to do that would be to react to previous vehicle speeds. BTW, in the world of motion control, this would be called Integral gain and is set on the Rosta via those DIP switches.

Brian

No cure here, but not the exact same problem either.
It still happens to me after I've accelerated to pass and then hit the brake for some reason before I've returned down to the set speed. The resume/accel and the set buttons are just ignored at that point and the Rostra seems to be in "tilt" mode. I don't have to turn the bike off however, I just turn off the Rostra with the power off button and give it a slow 10 count and power it back up and reset speed. Hitting the set button too soon after it's powered up doesn't work either, give it a second or two to "boot up", it's more like an old Pentium than an i7.
The engaged light I installed helps me determine when this happens more quickly and saves me some time in the reset. I've often wondered if there is an automatic reset, that is if I were to just handle the throttle for 5 minutes on my own, would I be able to then use the set function without the power down of the Rostra? So far I've been too impatient to test it.

Despite this occasional problem I still love my Rostra. 

[B.D.F.]

Interesting. I assume you wired the two power inputs on the Rostra according to the Rostra instructions rather than my tutorial? The way I wired mine, turning the unit off will remove all power from the Rostra; the way Rostra instructs, there is always power available from the brake light circuit.

Brian

I have a throttle thingy that attaches to my throttle and rests against the brake lever and I have used it when the unit goes on the blitz. Still doesn't reset latter, I have to turn the bike off and then on again.

[rocknrod]

Yes I wired it the way Rostra said to wire it, Is that a bad thing? I did have to use a relay. But I may go back and look at yours again. I noticed all power will not go off the way I did mine. 

[B.D.F.]

No, absolutely not. In fact, their way has a safety feature that my way does not- if the brake light circuit fails for any reason, the Rostra will not engage. My wiring system does not have that feature.

The only downside to the Rostra system, besides a more complex wiring system, is that you cannot actually power down the actuator by turning off the Rostra switch. This is why you have to reset the unit by turning the ign. switch off.

At any rate, I do not believe that is the root of your problem anyway; I am merely pointing out one of the byproducts of the different ways to wire the system in the first place.

You have to use a relay no matter which wiring scheme you use so that makes no difference. The relay is a requirement for this particular bike, not the result of any particular method of wiring the Rostra to the bike.

Brian

Yes I wired it the way Rostra said to wire it, Is that a bad thing? I did have to use a relay. But I may go back and look at yours again. I noticed all power will not go off the way I did mine. 

[rocknrod]

Well thank you for the information at least I don't feel so bad, I'm not the only person this has happened to. 
I didn't use the rear Aux power wires to install mine though like it was shown on your instructions. I forget now what I did but I know I didn't do that.

[B.D.F.]

Nope, I remember 'chatting' with you when you were doing your install and as I remember, what you did was perfectly fine, merely a choice on which way to do the install. I do not believe this issue is on the installer but rather either a quirk in the unit itself or the unit is sensitive to electrical noise (something I have long suspected with the Rostras). Normally electronic devices are not 'quirky' and their behavior is easily repeatable (once understood) but the Rostra seems a bit.... flighty in its behavior. Quite a few people just cannot get these units into diagnostic mode and I am attributing it to sensitivity in the system (sensitivity to electrical noise, very specific limits on what is "ground" and what is "hot", etc.).

As a general rule of thumb, if a Rostra works at all, it is installed correctly. One exception is that there have been grounding issues in the past but again, if you go by my instructions, I pick up ground from the main accessory lead on the bike's harness so it should be a good, solid ground for the system.

Brian

Well thank you for the information at least I don't feel so bad, I'm not the only person this has happened to. 
I didn't use the rear Aux power wires to install mine though like it was shown on your instructions. I forget now what I did but I know I didn't do that.

[just gone]

As far as the delay between turning the unit on (Easy Boys!) and being able to engage it, that has a logical reason and is not  a fault or flaw.

I hope I didn't imply that it was a flaw, my goal was to inform that when turning it back on to be patient and give it a few seconds before trying to set the speed.
I've wired mine the way Rostra instructs, but mine still will reset after it's powered off by the switch. I have rarely used the clutch to disengage, but there have been a few times when I've used it because I found my self cruising in 5th for several miles when I didn't mean to be, sometimes my earplugs work too well. Shifted and then hit the resume, never caused a problem other than the expected very brief rpm rise. My Rostra problem has always been caused by braking when moving faster than the set speed.

The way I wired mine, turning the unit off will remove all power from the Rostra;

Really? 

I thought I understood the differences in the way our respective units (easy..) were wired...now I'm not so sure. I knew that my Rostra was on two circuits and that yours originally was on the accessory circuit alone, but I don't see how yours would do that (totally power down) unless you pulled the fuse to the acc circuit.
If that's correct then there may be some that would rather go back and wire it your way so they don't have to shut down the whole bike to get a Rostra reset.

[xsv]

Really? 

I thought I understood the differences in the way our respective units (easy..) were wired...now I'm not so sure. I knew that my Rostra was on two circuits and that yours originally was on the accessory circuit alone, but I don't see how yours would do that (totally power down) unless you pulled the fuse to the acc circuit.
If that's correct then there may be some that would rather go back and wire it your way so they don't have to shut down the whole bike to get a Rostra reset.

I wired per Brian's instructions, but pulled power off of the FZ-1 fuseblock.  I probably did it wrong, but it will reset with a push of the button.

[B.D.F.]

I think you are right Marty, and I was wrong. I will have to think about this for a bit but that is my initial reaction.

So it does not matter how the two 'hot' inputs to the Rostra are wired (the two wires with fuses in them), as long as they are wired to a continuous power source, it will not make ANY difference to the operation or behavior of the unit.

So for those having a problem having to reset the unit, ignore everything I said earlier about how it is wired- that is not your problem. Hey, while you are at it, just ignore everything I say altogether and maybe we can avoid one of these mistakes in the future too. 

Thanks for pointing that out and correcting me Marty. (sincerely, not sarcastically)

Unfortunately, that brings us back to the 'quirk' and I now have no idea why some units do that and some do not. ??

Brian

Really? 

I thought I understood the differences in the way our respective units (easy..) were wired...now I'm not so sure. I knew that my Rostra was on two circuits and that yours originally was on the accessory circuit alone, but I don't see how yours would do that (totally power down) unless you pulled the fuse to the acc circuit.
If that's correct then there may be some that would rather go back and wire it your way so they don't have to shut down the whole bike to get a Rostra reset.

[just gone]

Well there seems to be two problems. (1) Some Rostra units need to be reset occasionally. This maybe because of some safety factor built into the Rostra that puts it in an inactive mode when it gets data that doesn't compute. It may also be caused due to less than optimal cable slack and the variable installations that we all seem to have. Maybe even temperature related or there may be multiple factors working together to cause this . It may never be solved completely.  (2) Some need to power the whole bike down to get a reset condition and some just need to power the Rostra off and on to get it to reset. This second condition seems like it could be more wiring related and have a better chance of being solved so that all would be able to reset on the fly. Perhaps some sort of ground loop is involved? Maybe if instead of getting power directly from the taillight circuit we should try using a relay triggered by the tail light circuit that actually provides power to both Rostra power lines from the same circuit? (another relay Marty? is the collective groan) Then again there could be unknown internal changes between these units based on date of manufacture that only Rostra knows about. Still it would be nice if we could solve item one as it would make item two moot.

I think you are right Marty, and I was wrong.

Ha! That's funny, all I said was I wasn't sure and I didn't understand. Well now that I think about it, I was right, as I wasn't sure and I didn't understand.
As for you being wrong....only Andrea has the power to make that call...I'm not going near that one. 

[B.D.F.]

Well, there are a couple of things that are perhaps not as straight forward as they may at first appear.

First of all, there are thresholds on all of the parameters required by the Rostra: to sense ground, of course it does not have to be 0.00000 volts but only <close>. And therein lies the problem- what is close enough? I believe on the brake light circuit, it is less than 3 Ohms resistance to ground but even that is undefined because at what current? This is probably the biggest single problem with the various Rostra installation differences- we are all tapping into various circuits in different places. I personally have found the clutch switch to be a little 'spotty' in working and I believe it is because it is not a very effective ground. And yes, a relay would absolutely help in those circumstances.

As far as a ground loop, I do not think that is likely but electrical noise absolutely is. I do not know how well the Rostra is protected from electrical noise but I suspect we are using it in a considerably noisier environment than a car would be.

The second thing is that parts of the Rostra do not actually sense voltages in some cases but rather sense a change in voltage. That is how the VSS pick up on the Rostra works. Again, I am not sure of the boundaries of either low or high, or how much of a difference there has to be to trigger a case change (low or high). ?? The VSS input from a C-14 does seem to work well enough though.

As to the other thing, nah, lots of people have <correctly> pointed out my wrongness. I am wrong a lot- so much so that sometimes I think I should give up entirely. But then I forge ahead and before too long.... more wrongness. Hey, I am still trying to circumvent this whole mortality thingy and really hoping I am not wrong about that (that it can be circumvented).    Besides, if we all point out each other's wrongness, the only thing left will be all the right answers, right? I believe in professional circles that is called 'peer review'; in the school yard it is called "Oh yeah! OH YEAH!!! Make me!"

Brian

Well there seems to be two problems. (1) Some Rostra units need to be reset occasionally. This maybe because of some safety factor built into the Rostra that puts it in an inactive mode when it gets data that doesn't compute. It may also be caused due to less than optimal cable slack and the variable installations that we all seem to have. Maybe even temperature related or there may be multiple factors working together to cause this . It may never be solved completely.  (2) Some need to power the whole bike down to get a reset condition and some just need to power the Rostra off and on to get it to reset. This second condition seems like it could be more wiring related and have a better chance of being solved so that all would be able to reset on the fly. Perhaps some sort of ground loop is involved? Maybe if instead of getting power directly from the taillight circuit we should try using a relay triggered by the tail light circuit that actually provides power to both Rostra power lines from the same circuit? (another relay Marty? is the collective groan) Then again there could be unknown internal changes between these units based on date of manufacture that only Rostra knows about. Still it would be nice if we could solve item one as it would make item two moot.

Ha! That's funny, all I said was I wasn't sure and I didn't understand. Well now that I think about it, I was right, as I wasn't sure and I didn't understand.
As for you being wrong....only Andrea has the power to make that call...I'm not going near that one. 

[just gone]

I personally have found the clutch switch to be a little 'spotty' in working...

Well that's because you tapped in on the wrong side of the connector! 

(Please forgive me, I couldn't resist.  )

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, I am probably getting the electrons late 'cause they had to jump through the crimps and contacts before I got a hold of them....

 

Hey, maybe it is a quantum mechanics 'thingy'? Where is that guy who believes in that stuff in the first place (I mean besides Neils Bohr- I know where he is)?

 

Brian

Well that's because you tapped in on the wrong side of the connector! 

(Please forgive me, I couldn't resist.  )

[VirginiaJim]

Please, Brian, let's not turn this into a Bohring thread...    My brane is hurting from the last one.