Author Topic: LED Conversion for Concours  (Read 24142 times)

Offline Stephen.G.Fiddes

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • Country: us
  • They don't call me crash for nothing...
Re: LED Conversion for Concours
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2014, 09:37:39 AM »
I will say this again and again and again until I die...

The ONLY way you should EVER run HID's is if you do a projector retrofit, with projectors.  If you use HID Bulbs in a standard reflector housing, not only does the output suck comparatively, the light is scattered every which random direction, to include blinding other drivers.  You want to be seen, not blind people so they cant see you. 

The reflectors are carefully engineered to work with Halogen bulbs. HID Bulbs are much longer, and put out a different pattern and MUCH more light.  But, because of the difference in the shape and positioning of the light source, that's a lot of energy for a very negative effect. 

By installing projectors, you are directing the light source where it needs to go... Out of other drivers eyes, and down the road, in a very smooth manner.  Not only will that make it easier for you to see, but it will keep other drivers from being blinded, and if aimed right, will appear "Flicker" at them as you're going down the road with small bumps etc.  THAT will make you more noticeable in a good way. 

Theretrofitsource.com has all of your needs... Seriously... I'm not associated with them in any way, just a very happy customer who has friends who are also very happy customers.  Look into the Mini H1 or Mini D2s.  The Mini D2s is what i plan on retrofitting to eventually.
2013 Kawasaki Concours 14 - CURRENT
2012 Yamaha V-Star 250 - WIFE'S
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - SOLD
1982 Honda CM450E - SOLD

Offline datsaxman@hotmail.com

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 338
  • Country: 00
Re: LED Conversion for Concours
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2014, 12:05:47 PM »
Stephen is correct...BTDT.  The HID will fit in the fixture just fine, but the light pattern will be...

1) Really bright

2) All over the place

3) Pissing off oncoming drivers



saxman
2008 ZG14X...ZX14 throttle bodies, full AreaP exhaust, heated grips, Corbin, and more...
161.5RWHP on the dyno
Formerly Silverdammit!

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: LED Conversion for Concours
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2014, 12:30:02 PM »
I think you may be generalizing a bit too much in this case. Projectors are an excellent device for headlights, both tungsten as well as HID but they are not a requirement for HID use; there were reflector headlights originally designed for use with HIDs, passed US DOT requirements and sold for street use. In fact, the "R" series of HID lamp, such as D2R types, were designed specifically for reflector housings.

There is nothing fundamentally different about a filament producing light as compared with a short arc producing light.

As far as retrofitting HID's into reflector housings originally meant for tungsten lamps, I have found the resulting beam quality all over the place with some really horrible results (H7 in Expedition housings), quite a few fair results and some really quite good results (the C-14 headlight buckets do pretty well with HIDs). C-14's fitted with aftermarket HID lamps are not particularly bad for oncoming traffic as they still produce a very crisp cut- off line and provided they are adjusted correctly I find them kinder to the eye than, say, a lot of other motorcycles using the high beam, or motorcycles equipped with the very common pair of secondary lights which are not only illegal but truly a bad idea as they have no forward shield and hence, no cut- off line at all.

Of course all retrofits of HID lamps (or burners) into any housing not originally made specifically for them is illegal but then again, so is changing the exhaust system on a road vehicle to an uncertified type (which is all of them as far as I know).

But at any rate, it is simply not correct that HIDs cannot be used well in reflector housings; the OEM and DOT certified versions are actually excellent. I am not talking about any retrofit here but rather original designed reflectors using HIDs as the light source. Put another way, reflectors and HIDs are perfectly compatible and by no means an unusable combination.

And some projectors do not do well at all with HIDs if they were originally designed for tungsten lamps. Some Chrysler products I have seen will not maintain a crisp cut- off line, produce a LOT of glare and are simply not suited for that conversion IMO.

Brian

I will say this again and again and again until I die...

The ONLY way you should EVER run HID's is if you do a projector retrofit, with projectors.  If you use HID Bulbs in a standard reflector housing, not only does the output suck comparatively, the light is scattered every which random direction, to include blinding other drivers.  You want to be seen, not blind people so they cant see you. 

The reflectors are carefully engineered to work with Halogen bulbs. HID Bulbs are much longer, and put out a different pattern and MUCH more light.  But, because of the difference in the shape and positioning of the light source, that's a lot of energy for a very negative effect. 

By installing projectors, you are directing the light source where it needs to go... Out of other drivers eyes, and down the road, in a very smooth manner.  Not only will that make it easier for you to see, but it will keep other drivers from being blinded, and if aimed right, will appear "Flicker" at them as you're going down the road with small bumps etc.  THAT will make you more noticeable in a good way. 

Theretrofitsource.com has all of your needs... Seriously... I'm not associated with them in any way, just a very happy customer who has friends who are also very happy customers.  Look into the Mini H1 or Mini D2s.  The Mini D2s is what i plan on retrofitting to eventually.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Stephen.G.Fiddes

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • Country: us
  • They don't call me crash for nothing...
Re: LED Conversion for Concours
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2014, 03:14:53 PM »
I think you may be generalizing a bit too much in this case. Projectors are an excellent device for headlights, both tungsten as well as HID but they are not a requirement for HID use; there were reflector headlights originally designed for use with HIDs, passed US DOT requirements and sold for street use. In fact, the "R" series of HID lamp, such as D2R types, were designed specifically for reflector housings.

There is nothing fundamentally different about a filament producing light as compared with a short arc producing light.

As far as retrofitting HID's into reflector housings originally meant for tungsten lamps, I have found the resulting beam quality all over the place with some really horrible results (H7 in Expedition housings), quite a few fair results and some really quite good results (the C-14 headlight buckets do pretty well with HIDs). C-14's fitted with aftermarket HID lamps are not particularly bad for oncoming traffic as they still produce a very crisp cut- off line and provided they are adjusted correctly I find them kinder to the eye than, say, a lot of other motorcycles using the high beam, or motorcycles equipped with the very common pair of secondary lights which are not only illegal but truly a bad idea as they have no forward shield and hence, no cut- off line at all.

Of course all retrofits of HID lamps (or burners) into any housing not originally made specifically for them is illegal but then again, so is changing the exhaust system on a road vehicle to an uncertified type (which is all of them as far as I know).

But at any rate, it is simply not correct that HIDs cannot be used well in reflector housings; the OEM and DOT certified versions are actually excellent. I am not talking about any retrofit here but rather original designed reflectors using HIDs as the light source. Put another way, reflectors and HIDs are perfectly compatible and by no means an unusable combination.

And some projectors do not do well at all with HIDs if they were originally designed for tungsten lamps. Some Chrysler products I have seen will not maintain a crisp cut- off line, produce a LOT of glare and are simply not suited for that conversion IMO.

Brian

Thank you Brian, I did not specify "Reflector Housings designed for Halogens"   

Either way, There is absolutely no disputing the amazing difference between a good projector, and a reflector housing.  :chugbeer:
2013 Kawasaki Concours 14 - CURRENT
2012 Yamaha V-Star 250 - WIFE'S
2006 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - SOLD
1982 Honda CM450E - SOLD

Offline Cuda

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 782
  • Country: us
Re: LED Conversion for Concours
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2014, 04:15:02 PM »
Yeah I had a sport bike behind me and It BLINDED me,  PISSED me off for sure.. I don't get it , since you sit so high on this bike I can only imagine what the cars think, I really think this hid thing should be illegal .     
Old and SLOW                   COG 11405
Gods waiting room Naples
2011 Atomic  Silver

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8871
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: LED Conversion for Concours
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2014, 05:12:30 PM »
Yeah I had a sport bike behind me and It BLINDED me,  PISSED me off for sure.. I don't get it , since you sit so high on this bike I can only imagine what the cars think, I really think this hid thing should be illegal .   

It *is* illegal (as a retrofit).  But so is changing lanes without turn signals, having colors other than red/yellow/white on a vehicle, over-tinting windshields, modifying the exhaust to be loud, tampering with emissions controls, blasting the stereo at mega volume, hanging things on the mirrors, etc, etc.  The police seem to only be interested in enforcing speeding.  Anyway....

That said, I did convert to HID on the Concours to try and gain better light for night riding.  Like Brian said, each vehicle is different.  MOST of the HID conversions I see on the road are horrible and blinding.  The Concours handles it better than most (as long as it is adjusted properly and I am sure things vary from kit to kit too).  But I am still not very impressed with the light pattern, and it absolutely does have additional scatter.  I am constantly fiddling with it and worried it might be too bright for oncoming traffic.  I don't find the cutoff to be all that good, and the light is not spread evenly enough to prevent hotspots (that can cause distance lighting to suffer).  I would not do it again, but I don't want to undo it either... I am kinda torn at this point.

I would love a proper HID (or LED headlight) with projector conversion- something that was designed to work together (like my G37, which has absolutely, drop-dead-wonderful headlights; which is why I am spoiled).  So far I haven't seen anything that is easy enough, quality, reputable, looks correct on the bike, and affordable.  When I do, I will likely jump on it.

But I thought this thread was for LED conversions!!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline datsaxman@hotmail.com

  • Arena
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 338
  • Country: 00
Re: LED Conversion for Concours
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2014, 11:21:22 PM »
Yeah...I did the same thing.  One C-10...two C-14s...several different kits with slightly different HID capsules.  NONE were awesome, although there was plenty of light to be had. 

Hence my earlier comments...strictly referring to the C-10 and C-14 retrofits I tried. 

And I put incandescents back in all of them after a while.  Well, there was the LED tryout.  But that is a different story entirely.  All incandescents currently...



saxman
2008 ZG14X...ZX14 throttle bodies, full AreaP exhaust, heated grips, Corbin, and more...
161.5RWHP on the dyno
Formerly Silverdammit!

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11336
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: LED Conversion for Concours
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2014, 04:28:34 AM »

But I thought this thread was for LED conversions!!

Mission creep.  It happens all the time.  Be one with it.
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.