Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: eng943 on March 21, 2013, 04:52:40 PM
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I am hoping Kawasaki responds to the updated FJR with cruise control (that works beyond 80 mph), revised linked brakes, and more fuel capacity, at the very least.
Anyone heard of possible improvements for 2014?
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At the Kawasaki tent this past Bike week there were rumors and discussions of cruise control being added for next years model.
Others are thinking that since the new ZX14 now has 1440cc that this increase in displacement may spill over into the ZG14.
That's all that I have heard.
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the euro brands are the ones rolling out the innovations and research and development, doubt that changes much for '14.
it should though, the jap brands are being crushed on the sales floors with duc and BMW's sales increasing by record margins (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/icon10.gif)
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I'll keep My 08 until the nuclear powered Connie is released. Replace the fuel pill, and the KiPass batteries once every couple of years.
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:goodpost: I feel the same with my 09.
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I love my C14, but if mama Kaw added cruise, larger tank, fixed the horrible linked brakes, and dropped in the zx14r's new torque monster engine, Id be first in line ;D
As for rumors for 2014....I got nothin :(
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YOUR ALL WRONG
The 2014 will be a true GREEN machine
No gas at all,
it will be Lithium Ion Powered.
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it will be Lithium Ion Powered.
They will use the old batteries Boeing takes out of the 787 Dreamliner.
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Green? :-\
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I am definately at the crossroads with my C14. I really like the Trophy, though being a first year model, I would prefer to wait at least a year. The K16GT is the pinnacle of sport touring machines, but I don't yet know that I want to spend that kind of money again. The FJR is now better, but still not the touring weapon the Trophy and K16 are in terms of comfort, weather protection, convenience. Add to that a new BMW RT is due out next year with a more powerful water cooled boxer, dynamic suspension, traditionally lighter weight, etc.
My right sided brain tells me to buy MC Cruise, and live with the C14 for another year, horde some cash, and see how the new RT, Trophy, and possibly a refreshed C14 look in a year, Honestly, if a new C14 scrapped these completely horrendous linked brakes, kipass, and offered a bigger fuel tank, along with a cruise option that worked beyond 80 mph (unlike FJR), it could be the best sport tourer out there dollar for dollar for me.
Until then, it is kind of a love/hate thing for me and my C14.
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I'll keep My 08 until the nuclear powered Connie is released. Replace the fuel pill, and the KiPass batteries once every couple of years.
I saw a documentary the other day mentioning that a trident submarine requires about 9 pounds of Uranium every 20 years... I think a piece the size of a dice should power the beast forever. It'd cost some, but hey! no more taking the key from the FOB or the stove knob (and bending it) to open that pesky gasshole...
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I am definately at the crossroads with my C14. I really like the Trophy, though being a first year model, I would prefer to wait at least a year. The K16GT is the pinnacle of sport touring machines, but I don't yet know that I want to spend that kind of money again. The FJR is now better, but still not the touring weapon the Trophy and K16 are in terms of comfort, weather protection, convenience. Add to that a new BMW RT is due out next year with a more powerful water cooled boxer, dynamic suspension, traditionally lighter weight, etc.
My right sided brain tells me to buy MC Cruise, and live with the C14 for another year, horde some cash, and see how the new RT, Trophy, and possibly a refreshed C14 look in a year, Honestly, if a new C14 scrapped these completely horrendous linked brakes, kipass, and offered a bigger fuel tank, along with a cruise option that worked beyond 80 mph (unlike FJR), it could be the best sport tourer out there dollar for dollar for me.
Until then, it is kind of a love/hate thing for me and my C14.
You should do US a favour...
Buy a BMW and go AWAY ;) PLEASE
YOU will never be happy even with the newest and greatest BMW 1200
I'm SURE you will find many falts in that bike also...
But you need to buy one just to answer all those questions floating around in your utopian DREAM.
BMW BMW BMW IT'S THE ANSWER
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You should do US a favour...
Buy a BMW and go AWAY ;) PLEASE
YOU will never be happy even with the newest and greatest BMW 1200
I'm SURE you will find many falts in that bike also...
But you need to buy one just to answer all those questions floating around in your utopian DREAM.
BMW BMW BMW IT'S THE ANSWER
Not only is your lack of tolerance disturbing, but your spelling and reasoning skills leave a little room for personal growth.
Now, in spite of liking many thing about my C14, I find that there is some room for improvement next design. As do others here, and pardon me for mentioning Yamaha, Triumph and number one on your myopic hate list..BMW.
Now, the rest of the adults are having a reasonable conversation. Go take your meds, and find your happy place Jr.
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I would love to have a BMW if I knew I would get a good one, but none the less any maintenance and parts are still going to be steep. They are pretty much solely responsible for the whole sport touring "and" ADV segments that exist today, we all should thank BMW for that. And on the other popular segment, is there a super sport that has or can dethrone the S1000 RR ? My goodness is that machine sexy!!!!
(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/firstrides/122_1002_2010_bmw_s1000rr/31928670/122_1002_08_o%2B2010_bmw_s1000rr%2Bright_side_view.jpg)
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And on the other popular segment, is there a super sport that has or can dethrone the S1000 RR ?
Maybe something with more R's Z's and X's.... Like a RXZZ1000XRRRRRR?
My goodness is that machine sexy!!!!
And some on here think the Concours' muffler is ugly??? Yeesh. And what is with that "box" it goes into??
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I would love to have a BMW if I knew I would get a good one, but none the less any maintenance and parts are still going to be steep. They are pretty much solely responsible for the whole sport touring "and" ADV segments that exist today, we all should thank BMW for that. And on the other popular segment, is there a super sport that has or can dethrone the S1000 RR ? My goodness is that machine sexy!!!!
(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/firstrides/122_1002_2010_bmw_s1000rr/31928670/122_1002_08_o%2B2010_bmw_s1000rr%2Bright_side_view.jpg)
+1
^^^^^^competition within the industry is what keeps its good for us consumers :D
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Maybe something with more R's Z's and X's.... Like a RXZZ1000XRRRRRR?
And some on here think the Concours' muffler is ugly??? Yeesh. And what is with that "box" it goes into??
Called EPA emissions on a factory 180hp race bike. Don't worry, practically nobody keeps that stock exhaust. ;)
YUMMY!!!!!!
(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/gallery/bmw-hp4/bmw-hp4-12.jpg)
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That looks much nicer.
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I hear a silent rumor that KIPASS will be upgraded.
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I wonder if KAW will ever install the night vision system they developed (and patented) for the Connie...it was supposed to be on the 2010, but for some reason it never happened.
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snip...
And some on here think the Concours' muffler is ugly??? Yeesh.
The most shocking thing is that some here don't. :o
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The most shocking thing is that some here don't. :o
::battle::
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The most shocking thing is that some here don't. :o
:rotflmao: :thumbs: :chugbeer:
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I hear a silent rumor that KIPASS will be upgraded.
yeah, it won't require battery, will be made of metal instead of plastic, and it will avoid fumbling in your pockets when you want to refuel or open the side cases.
oh... wait... that sounds like a key...
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I love my C14, but if mama Kaw added cruise, larger tank, fixed the horrible linked brakes, and dropped in the zx14r's new torque monster engine, Id be first in line ;D
As for rumors for 2014....I got nothin :(
+1 Cruise is not that bid a deal to me because I already have it on my 2010 but wouldn't complain if they offered factory cruise (please don't limit to 80mph thank you very much). But the stroked motor and larger tank would make me consider it. How hard would it be to give the brakes 3 modes instead of 2. Heavily linked, lightly linked and no link at all. Seems that would satisfy everyone.
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The C14 is already too heavy IMHO, and why is there no reverse? :banghead: I am still throwing around trading the C14 for a Vstrom plus some cash, have a good buddy that seems mighty interested. Not sure I would ever want to own another bike this heavy again, or with this much "expensive" plastic to bust from just a drop in the parking lot or garage.
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I hear a silent rumor that KIPASS will be upgraded.
But KiPass couldn't possibly gain 'mo pow-ah (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/icon10.gif)
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But KiPass couldn't possibly gain 'mo pow-ah (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/icon10.gif)
I was thinking truly keyless entry and built in alarm.
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+1 Cruise is not that bid a deal to me because I already have it on my 2010 but wouldn't complain if they offered factory cruise (please don't limit to 80mph thank you very much). But the stroked motor and larger tank would make me consider it. How hard would it be to give the brakes 3 modes instead of 2. Heavily linked, lightly linked and no link at all. Seems that would satisfy everyone.
Ehh you're all a bunch of whiners...buy a BMW and go AWAY lol!!
I agree, if Kawasaki copied the Yamaha cruise control concept, I'd say no thanks and buy an Mc Cruise. However, an optional mode to bypass linked brakes is a great idea, and a 6.5 gallon tank would make the C14 an improved weapon.
I would add a little upper fairing as opposed to relying on the windshield so much. Add some revised gauges, stock 190/55 rear, and I would bet the C14 would be at the top of the list.
The good news is most of our gripes can be resolved via the aftermarket for now.
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Problem is if Kawi adds too much the cost would have to go up and right now is'nt the C14 a couple thousand cheaper than the FJR and ST1300? Hopefully if they add the criuse control it's a factory option. I think the C14 definitely needs a larger fuel tank and my one wish would be adjustable foot pegs. It would be nice to be able to set the pegs back and up a little for sport riding and forward for touring.
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Ehh you're all a bunch of whiners...buy a BMW and go AWAY lol!!
"All"? I haven't whined at all about the brakes (I think they are fine, but I understand others' concerns), and cruise is hardly worth ditching a superior bike for an extremely overpriced BMW :)
gauges, stock 190/55 rear, and I would bet the C14 would be at the top of the list. The good news is most of our gripes can be resolved via the aftermarket for now.
It already is at the top of the list. But it can be more firmly at the top of the list with some rather simple tweaks.
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Problem is if Kawi adds too much the cost would have to go up and right now is'nt the C14 a couple thousand cheaper than the FJR and ST1300? Hopefully if they add the criuse control it's a factory option. I think the C14 definitely needs a larger fuel tank and my one wish would be adjustable foot pegs. It would be nice to be able to set the pegs back and up a little for sport riding and forward for touring.
Cruise control- maybe $100 for them to add... at the most?
Adjustable pegs- almost no cost.
Change the TPMS to use larger and replaceable batteries- almost no cost.
Larger fuel tank- no cost.
More brake linking modes- no cost.
Different performance profile settings- no cost.
There are a lot of things that can be improved at little to no cost. Super-fancy headlights and remote/fob unlockable luggage/tank- now those would add cost.
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Cruise control- maybe $100 for them to add... at the most?
Adjustable pegs- almost no cost.
Change the TPMS to use larger and replaceable batteries- almost no cost.
Larger fuel tank- no cost.
More brake linking modes- no cost.
Different performance profile settings- no cost.
There are a lot of things that can be improved at little to no cost. Super-fancy headlights and remote/fob unlockable luggage/tank- now those would add cost.
Everything that gets a design change involves cost, from engineering to production and beyond.
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There are a lot of things that can be improved at little to no cost. Super-fancy headlights and remote/fob unlockable luggage/tank- now those would add cost.
They could save money by removing KIPASS and have a key that will fit easily into your pocket, and be easy to remove from the ignition, and have bags you can shut without locking, locking only when you want. :stirpot:
:popcorn:
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Everything that gets a design change involves cost, from engineering to production and beyond.
Well, of course that is true.
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I read somewhere that Kawi did ask customers of Gen1 C14 about improvments to make before launching the Gen 2.
Well, not sure customers asked for linked brakes ;) but I though it was a good idea to relies on customers experiences to make sure they do changes.
Any process like that going on? If not, why don't we just feed them officially?
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"All"? I haven't whined at all about the brakes (I think they are fine, but I understand others' concerns), and cruise is hardly worth ditching a superior bike for an extremely overpriced BMW :)
It already is at the top of the list. But it can be more firmly at the top of the list with some rather simple tweaks.
The whining was just hyperbole/sarcasm, and yes ditching the C14 only for lack of cruise to buy a K16GT might be silly when MC Cruise or Rosata can be added.
As for my C14 being superior to say a K16GT....ummm no, not even close unless you are arguing value. On point, you can throw big money on C14 farkles and still not be in the same league as the K16. There's no shame in that either, the C14 is an incredible bike for the money.
I owned a K16GT, and loved it, but even so, when I ride the C14 minor gripes not withstanding, I am always impressed.
As for BMW overpriced, that's pretty subjective, and I would not try to dispense that declaration as being fact.
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The good news is most of our gripes can be resolved via the aftermarket for now.
+1
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The whining was just hyperbole/sarcasm, and yes ditching the C14 only for lack of cruise to buy a K16GT might be silly when MC Cruise or Rosata can be added.
As for my C14 being superior to say a K16GT....ummm no, not even close unless you are arguing value. On point, you can throw big money on C14 farkles and still not be in the same league as the K16. There's no shame in that either, the C14 is an incredible bike for the money.
I owned a K16GT, and loved it, but even so, when I ride the C14 minor gripes not withstanding, I am always impressed.
As for BMW overpriced, that's pretty subjective, and I would not try to dispense that declaration as being fact.
That is way off base, and the motorcycle magazines seem to have a different opinion. The C14 and the FJR have everything that 3/4 of riders want/need and are satisfied with. The BMW adds a bunch of fancy add ons and luxury items, which is really no different then a high end car. Then you add in reliability between the brands, cost of ownership, and finally dealer support and locations.......then you are right in it not even being close. ;) Like I said before, I will be getting away from the big heavy bikes sooner than later, I did more than fine traveling the country on a Vstrom 1000.......and went places the C14 could not. :thumbs:
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What is it with Kawasaki that they can't seem to understand that folks would like to have cruise control on these bikes? Is that really asking too much?
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My O- ring gives me a break ,
But I'm not a long ride kind of guy ,
More of a sprinter ;)
When I went to 9th grade I joint cross-country track in High School when I found out I could not eat my double lunches and had to push my self to the point I was sick , I moved to shorter runs, sprinter, I take my conversion van for real trips, my wife would NEVER get on a bike .
Thou CC would be nice .
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That is way off base, and the motorcycle magazines seem to have a different opinion.
Every review I read has the K16GT coming out on-top. Doesn't matter what bikes you throw in there, C14, ST1300, new Triumph Trophy, revised FJR, the BMW always comes out on-top. And depending on the review, it's often not even close. The Concours is constantly bitched at for the linked braking system (I didn't find them to be any problem whatsoever in my test ride, but hey, different people ride differently), not having cruise control, having a bit archaic instrument cluster, whacky KIPASS, and the poor turn-in (I also didn't find this to be a problem).
The BMW adds a bunch of fancy add ons and luxury items, which is really no different then a high end car.
You can choose not to get those fancy add-ons and save some money, but the base GT is still >$21k MSRP. :-(
Then you add in reliability between the brands, cost of ownership,
Cost of ownership of the BMW K16GT/GTL is actually less than the Concours if you follow both manufacturer's documented maintenance schedules.
and finally dealer support and locations
If you live in the sticks, then yeah, there's probably not a BMW dealer near you. There are two within 30 miles of me. This is purely based on luck, and of course factors in, but honestly, I haven't had my Honda back to the dealer since I bought it, so I doubt I'd bring any other back, either, unless it was a warranty repair. The BMW dealers usually give you a loaner bike and tow your bike to their place.
Like I said before, I will be getting away from the big heavy bikes sooner than later, I did more than fine traveling the country on a Vstrom 1000.......and went places the C14 could not. :thumbs:
Have you given any thought to the Ducati Multistrada 1200? That's going to be my sport/touring/go wherever bike when I save up the cash. It's light, fast, handles great, and has some offroad capability, as well as very decent touring capability, if current owners are to be believed. The Skyhook electronic semi-real-time suspension on the 2013's seems like a really awesome addition.
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Have you given any thought to the Ducati Multistrada 1200? That's going to be my sport/touring/go wherever bike when I save up the cash. It's light, fast, handles great, and has some offroad capability, as well as very decent touring capability, if current owners are to be believed. The Skyhook electronic semi-real-time suspension on the 2013's seems like a really awesome addition.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...and still 20 grand.
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That is way off base, and the motorcycle magazines seem to have a different opinion. The C14 and the FJR have everything that 3/4 of riders want/need and are satisfied with. The BMW adds a bunch of fancy add ons and luxury items, which is really no different then a high end car. Then you add in reliability between the brands, cost of ownership, and finally dealer support and locations.......then you are right in it not even being close. ;) Like I said before, I will be getting away from the big heavy bikes sooner than later, I did more than fine traveling the country on a Vstrom 1000.......and went places the C14 could not. :thumbs:
All due respect, where are you coming from with this? Most if not all of the magazines acknowledge the K16 is the superior bike if in fact you use magazine articles as the litmus. The only debate generally has been how resoundingly the editors chose the K16 over the C14, and how to compare the value proposition of the two.
Does my C14 have better relaibility than my K16? So far it's no better or worse, time will tell and neither of us can drill down deep enough into fact to make a real declaration. Maybe cost of ownership is higher on the K16. Has nothing to do with the capabilities of the K16 and the fact that it truly is the superior bike. Smoother, more torque, better roll on acceleration, better wind protection, better two up bike, heated seat, cruise, ESA, integrated GPS/bluetooth/com, better lighting, more range, better brakes.
I find your comment about 3/4 of ST riders being satisfied without "a bunch of fancy add ons and luxury items" highly contradictory. That is completely false as evidenced by the countless members here who add cruise, heated seat, nav, countless ergonomical farkles to make the C14 more long distance friendly, etc. Myself included.
I have owned both, and I could never look anyone in the eye and tell them my C14 is superior to the K16. The only thing my C14 does better is to your point, provide me with better dealer support, lower initial cost and cost to maintain. I don't dimiss these virtues at all, and from a value perspective the C14 is fast, refined, and a great bike.
Please point me toward the magazine articles (plural as you claim) that contradict my opinion. I thought I read or viewed just about every comparison that was done before I bought the K16 and since.
K16 is the better bike categorically, and should be for the cost differential.
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Have you given any thought to the Ducati Multistrada 1200? That's going to be my sport/touring/go wherever bike when I save up the cash. It's light, fast, handles great, and has some offroad capability, as well as very decent touring capability, if current owners are to be believed. The Skyhook electronic semi-real-time suspension on the 2013's seems like a really awesome addition.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...and still 20 grand.
I have. It's an incredible bike, but living in the midwest, I really want/need weather protection.
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I read somewhere that Kawi did ask customers of Gen1 C14 about improvments to make before launching the Gen 2.
Well, not sure customers asked for linked brakes ;) but I though it was a good idea to relies on customers experiences to make sure they do changes.
Any process like that going on? If not, why don't we just feed them officially?
They have already sent out a survey (more than one, actually) to 2nd gen C-14 owners about what they like and don't like and what they want changed. Kawasaki is absolutely aware of people being unhappy with the current implementation of linked brakes and lack of cruise control.
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As for my C14 being superior to say a K16GT....ummm no, not even close unless you are arguing value.
Value is a major consideration in any comparison. And the Concours performs and handles just as well (as has been discussed in several other threads).
As for BMW overpriced, that's pretty subjective, and I would not try to dispense that declaration as being fact.
Oh, I think it is fact :) When you compare what you get with the C14 at price X and what you get with the K16 at price Y, it doesn't jive at all.
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Cost of ownership of the BMW K16GT/GTL is actually less than the Concours if you follow both manufacturer's documented maintenance schedules.
Well, WE all know that is nonsense. No sane person would follow the strange, unnecessary, and whacked USA version of the C-14 schedule. Follow the EU schedule for our exact same C-14, and the equations changes quite radically. Plus it is more than just routine maintenance in the situation.
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Value is a major consideration in any comparison. And the Concours performs and handles just as well (as has been discussed in several other threads).
Oh, I think it is fact :) When you compare what you get with the C14 at price X and what you get with the K16 at price Y, it doesn't jive at all.
You're right, it does not jive because essentially the majority of available features on the K16 are not offered on the C14. That was one of my points. Your arguments make no sense.
Look, the C14 is a great bike, it is not a K16 beater unless your primary consideration is cost. As for performs and handles just as well, in some respects yes, others no the C14 does not. However, acceleration and handling are only part of a sport touring bike's dynamics.
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All due respect, where are you coming from with this? Most if not all of the magazines acknowledge the K16 is the superior bike if in fact you use magazine articles as the litmus. The only debate generally has been how resoundingly the editors chose the K16 over the C14, and how to compare the value proposition of the two.
Exactly.
The K16 might be, overall, a few percent better, and everyone would and should rate it higher. But when it is 50% more expensive, is that justified? Add more cylinders and displacement but gain almost no more power (especially after a flash)? Adding cruise, HID, a heated seat and a few other farkles to better equalize the two isn't going to change that price gap by more than several more percent and you are still left with a big difference in price. And the user can decide if he even wants to close the feature gap or not (although I still think Kawasaki should consider throwing them in, since they really are NOT that expensive when added in mass production).
And with the good design, excellent dealership network, and great long-term and expandable warranty on the C-14, that price difference isn't eroded due to [sane] maintenance or service. If anything, the gap will just continue to get wider over time.
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I've put about $20k into my ZG and absolutely love it now, how much would I have to put into the K16 to make it to what I want? :o ??? :-\
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Exactly.
The K16 might be, overall, a few percent better, and everyone would and should rate it higher. But when it is 50% more expensive, is that justified? Add more cylinders and displacement but gain almost no more power (especially after a flash)? Adding cruise, HID, a heated seat and a few other farkles to better equalize the two isn't going to change that price gap by more than several more percent and you are still left with a big difference in price. And the user can decide if he even wants to close the feature gap or not (although I still think Kawasaki should consider throwing them in, since they really are NOT that expensive when added in mass production).
And with the good design, excellent dealership network, and great long-term and expandable warranty on the C-14, that price difference isn't eroded due to [sane] maintenance or service. If anything, the gap will just continue to get wider over time.
Please pick a lane ;) First the K16 was not superior, now it is by a "few percentage points" whatever that means. Moreover, the K16 makes notably more torque, which on a ST bike particularly when riding two up is what matters, not peak hp. To that end the K16 crushes my C14 in roll on power as illustrated in every test, and my own experience.
Value is in the eye of the beholder. The K16 does things the C14 cannot in many regards. It's up to the buyer to determine if that's something worth paying for. Go add all the features a K16 comes with, many of which you couldn't, and I'll bet my first child you will be all too close to the $23K I paid for my K16.
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Max made the comments for me, and no the K1600 does not dominate the C14 or the FJR in "any" category. Yes it is the uber luxury version for a superb sport touring bike "especially 2 up", but go on a big trip and the BMW dealers are in fact scarce. You obviously have a raging hard on for BMW, but I still think some of it is the whole "I own a BMW thing". ;) Price or ownership is a huge factor for many riders, hence why much fewer BMW owners are out there. The Multistrada is simply an amazing bike, maybe the all around best bike that is currently available, but once again the cost of ownership and dealer networks is a turn off for me. I will keep buying my inexpensive Japanese machines and just slowly add to them what I want that suits my needs. 8) You love it and that is all that matters, ride what ya love and love what ya ride.
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Please pick a lane ;) First the K16 was not superior, now it is by a "few percentage points" whatever that means.
"Superior" is a much greater superlative than "better". I don't believe there is anything contradictory in what I said. I think it is a little (which is what I meant by "few percentage points") better, overall, not "superior". Chalk it up to semantics, but that is what I meant.
Moreover, the K16 makes notably more torque, which on a ST bike particularly when riding two up is what matters, not peak hp. To that end the K16 crushes my C14 in roll on power as illustrated in every test, and my own experience.
Yes, the heavier K16 does make more torque in lower RPM (and LESS than the C14 in higher RPM). But roll-ons in what gear? Most "roll-on" tests are in top gear, and that is hardly valid on a C14 which has a true overdrive. 5th and under is the only valid comparison.
Value is in the eye of the beholder. The K16 does things the C14 cannot in many regards. It's up to the buyer to determine if that's something worth paying for.
Totally agreed. It is nice to have choices, and the K16 is certainly nice.
Go add all the features a K16 comes with, many of which you couldn't, and I'll bet my first child you will be all too close to the $23K I paid for my K16.
You really think it would cost $10K? I don't... at least not for what it is POSSIBLE to add. To touch on the things I could identify:
Good GPS + sound system + mounting: $400
Better seat + heated $500
Reflash ECU $350
Cruise $550 (rostra + install)
HID $100 (can't add adaptive, of course)
Mirror deflectors $75
Not even $2000. Did I miss anything important? I can't do much about electronic suspension, but that is optional- how about throwing in an entire 3 years more of warranty for $335 :)
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Max, ya left out unlimited mileage ;D
FWIW, as noted in my tagline, I own a BMW, and owned an 1150RT before the 14. Service cost flipped me, if anyone is interested, see what is involved in doing a "simple" brake bleed on the RT.
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Max, ya left out unlimited mileage ;D
And the K16 has a 3 year 36k warrenty, so if you put 2000 miles a month on the K16 the warrenty will only be good for a 11/2 years.
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$670 gets ya 6 more years, for a total of 9 years unlimited warranty. Why doesn't BMW offer this? Is the answer as simple as they know good and well they would lose any and all profit? Maybe even a loss?? FWIW, this simple warranty speaks volumes as to the why the C14 is the vastly superior motorcycle in the eyes of a rider. I would ponder (hick for guess) that most K riders will not exceed 12k a year, some sure, most no, so the unlimited 3 year has very little attraction, but 9 years total? It may also ne safe to say that the majority of K riders will not own their bike past 2 years, trading in for something else. I would say it is safe to say that a sizeable amount of us Connie owners tend to hold on to our beloved bike a tad longer, and from what I have seen and read do more miles. Making the warranty a really big deal.
BOT I hear 55 profile rear will also compliment the bike, to overcome the often heard turn in effort. Add a third mode, say sport mode, to open the flies at the first crack of the throttle.
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Max made the comments for me, and no the K1600 does not dominate the C14 or the FJR in "any" category. Yes it is the uber luxury version for a superb sport touring bike "especially 2 up", but go on a big trip and the BMW dealers are in fact scarce. You obviously have a raging hard on for BMW, but I still think some of it is the whole "I own a BMW thing". ;) Price or ownership is a huge factor for many riders, hence why much fewer BMW owners are out there. The Multistrada is simply an amazing bike, maybe the all around best bike that is currently available, but once again the cost of ownership and dealer networks is a turn off for me. I will keep buying my inexpensive Japanese machines and just slowly add to them what I want that suits my needs. 8) You love it and that is all that matters, ride what ya love and love what ya ride.
I actually do not have a raging hard on for BMW,as much as some here have a raging hard against BMW. Latest article in Motorcyclist says the K16GT "dominates the class is dynamically superior to the FJR, C14, and new Trophy".
In general, my comments are no different than the dozens of comparisons done of the two. All of them claim the K16 was the better bike, and it is no affront to my decision to own a C14 to acknowledge the K16 is better.
In general and aside from a couple gripes like the brakes, and small gas tank, I like my C14, especially considering how inexpensive it was. However, if someone asked me which bike I would rather do a 500-1000 mile day on, or have in my garage, it's the K16 hands down.
That all said, the Trophy has some appeal to me as well, so I'll be waiting for the next threat telling me how overpriced the Trophy is, and how I obviously have a raging hard on for Triumph, etc.
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"Superior" is a much greater superlative than "better". I don't believe there is anything contradictory in what I said. I think it is a little (which is what I meant by "few percentage points") better, overall, not "superior". Chalk it up to semantics, but that is what I meant.
Yes, the heavier K16 does make more torque in lower RPM (and LESS than the C14 in higher RPM). But roll-ons in what gear? Most "roll-on" tests are in top gear, and that is hardly valid on a C14 which has a true overdrive. 5th and under is the only valid comparison.
Totally agreed. It is nice to have choices, and the K16 is certainly nice.
You really think it would cost $10K? I don't... at least not for what it is POSSIBLE to add. To touch on the things I could identify:
Good GPS + sound system + mounting: $400
Better seat + heated $500
Reflash ECU $350
Cruise $550 (rostra + install)
HID $100 (can't add adaptive, of course)
Mirror deflectors $75
Not even $2000. Did I miss anything important? I can't do much about electronic suspension, but that is optional- how about throwing in an entire 3 years more of warranty for $335 :)
I simply don't agree on any level other than price that my C14 is in the same class as the K16, and to one degree or another every comparison echos my sentiment.
Thank you for the tip on hitting the interstates in 5th gear so I can have comparable roll on power to a bike that by every documented report + my own observations, thumps my C14 in roll on power.
You missed a lot of important features, by picking and choosing only what is important to you. Again, the value of the K16 is relative to what the buyer wants in terms of features. Many of which, just are not even an option on the aftermarket for a C14.
You don't think the K16 is worth the cost. Enough said.
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I will give it the better all around bike at touring, especially 2 up. And for the record, I don't think the Trophy is over-priced at all. Sweet sweet engine, and pretty much anything that Triumph has been pumping out lately seems to be pretty reliable.
On a side note.......a new Goldwing isnt worth the price either, that is why I would buy a lightly used one instead. ;)
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DON"T FEED THE TROOL
I was dead set on low 1200RT 2011 left over till I drove the ZG,
Power can't campare no way no how , now with the ZX exhaust and Gulh flash the 1600 is a DOG.
A POODLE with a fancy hair cut ;D
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How does the K16 rate against the C14 at Consumer Reports, I wonder.... hmmmmmmm.
http://bmwmcmag.com/2013/03/consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles (http://bmwmcmag.com/2013/03/consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles)
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How does the K16 rate against the C14 at Consumer Reports, I wonder.... hmmmmmmm.
http://bmwmcmag.com/2013/03/consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles (http://bmwmcmag.com/2013/03/consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles)
Thank you sir for that info right here ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Latest article in Motorcyclist says the K16GT "dominates the class is dynamically superior to the FJR, C14, and new Trophy".
Advertising dollars speak loudly.
However, if someone asked me which bike I would rather do a 500-1000 mile day on, or have in my garage, it's the K16 hands down.
If price (purchase cost, maintenance cost, repair cost) were no object, I am guessing most C14 owners wouldn't think twice for trading to a K16.... I would, myself. And I like the C14. But I still say the K16 doesn't "dominate."
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You missed a lot of important features, by picking and choosing only what is important to you.
No, I went right through all the features I could find that the K16 has that the C14 doesn't. They actually share the MAJORITY of features (ABS, temp sensor, shaft drive, 6 speed, EFI, VVT, locking glove, locking panniers, electronic theft deterrents, electric windshield, shield memory, aux ports, trip meters, range meters, 4VPC, traction control, TPS, center stand, ECO modes, hydrolic clutch, aluminum frame, shift indicator, digital bus, variable heated grips, volt meter, etc, etc, etc). I asked if I missed anything- you can list something if you like and I would add it to the list.
Again, the value of the K16 is relative to what the buyer wants in terms of features. Many of which, just are not even an option on the aftermarket for a C14.
Some, not many.
You don't think the K16 is worth the cost. Enough said.
Well, I don't... but that doesn't mean the K16 isn't highly desirable and top in features.
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I not a gadget guy. The new beemer is overkill for me. This 08 C14 will probably be the last bike I buy. I'll likely run out about the same time as my renewable unlimited milage warranty. :)
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This 08 C14 will probably be the last bike I buy. I'll likely run out about the same time as my renewable unlimited mileage warranty. :)
Ooh, that sounds so..... depressing
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Just reality. Got what maybe 20 years left and impossible to tell how many of them good. :chugbeer:
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No, I went right through all the features I could find that the K16 has that the C14 doesn't. They actually share the MAJORITY of features (ABS, temp sensor, shaft drive, 6 speed, EFI, VVT, locking glove, locking panniers, electronic theft deterrents, electric windshield, shield memory, aux ports, trip meters, range meters, 4VPC, traction control, TPS, center stand, ECO modes, hydrolic clutch, aluminum frame, shift indicator, digital bus, variable heated grips, volt meter, etc, etc, etc). I asked if I missed anything- you can list something if you like and I would add it to the list.
Some, not many.
Well, I don't... but that doesn't mean the K16 isn't highly desirable and top in features.
Plenty of features you left out.
Adaptive headlights
Central locking
self cancelling turn signals
Electronic Suspension
HID lighting
Passenger power port
That is just off the top of my head, and represent some significant costs. The only thing coherent in your entire rant against the K16 is that you do not see the value in it, which I don't really begrudge.
You're right though, the K16 is tops in features, and by all accounts from published comparisons, tops among competitors in the ST segment.
To my point, if BMW is so overpriced, why is it a new Trophy is not that far off from an RT in price in spite of Triumph entering the market and being forced to be more competitive to buy market share?
Do we start another thread for how overpriced you think the Trophy is?
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How does the K16 rate against the C14 at Consumer Reports, I wonder.... hmmmmmmm.
http://bmwmcmag.com/2013/03/consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles (http://bmwmcmag.com/2013/03/consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=consumer-reports-finds-bmws-less-reliable-than-japanese-motorcycles)
Be interesting to know what the average mileage on the bikes was. Interesting that BMW had a higher percentage of satisfaction than Yamaha or Kawasaki. Hmmm
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Dollar per dollar nobody can compete with the Japanese Quality,performance,reliabilty,and just plain fun.............
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Be interesting to know what the average mileage on the bikes was. Interesting that BMW had a higher percentage of satisfaction than Yamaha or Kawasaki. Hmmm
It's probably because most People that ride Japanese bikes aren't as brand loyal as Harley or BMW riders accept maybe Goldwing riders.
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Be interesting to know what the average mileage on the bikes was. Interesting that BMW had a higher percentage of satisfaction than Yamaha or Kawasaki. Hmmm
That's an easy one. BMW shares the same passion for a brand most similar to Harley riders. Not a knock BTW. I would say from long observation that the BMW crowd wears the best gear on the road. I can also say that in large BMW riders need more training to get what they paid so dearly for, but to be fair, that is most of the two wheeled population.
I would like to see a K16 out on the track same time I was there, we'd both have a great time doing what riders do, ride :)
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Plenty of features you left out.
Adaptive headlights
Electronic Suspension
HID lighting
I specifically addressed all three of the above in the previous postings You can't add the first two to the C14 and the last (HID) I included as a mod.
Central locking
self cancelling turn signals
Passenger power port
Of those, I could have added power port and maybe the turn signals- another maybe $100. Central locking can't do much about. So that is now 1 additional thing that can't be added to your list of "many" things that can't be added to the C14.
That is just off the top of my head, and represent some significant costs. The only thing coherent in your entire rant against the K16 is that you do not see the value in it, which I don't really begrudge.
So because you don't like what I am saying, you are labeling it "incoherent"? It is OK to disagree, really it is; but you don't have to be insulting about it.
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CUT the chase Troll
STATUS SYMBOLS
Yeah BMW HD
I remember after high school , the screw balls had to get HD's so they could become COOL ::)
Same with lot of BMW folks,more PRESTIGE , I've wanted a BMW for a long time till I started to Google problems with the RT 1200 try it out $$ , I've always had Honda , Yamaha bikes this is my first Kaw.
Hey you want your Prestige go for It , I'm sick of your constant banter
BMW this BMW that go get that dream bike and let us enjoy our Jap crap.
You see I do my best to never buy Jap stuff , my Dad was Port Master in Subic Bay during the last part of WW2 and he had some NASTY storys about what the Japs did to American prisoners of WAR, The DEATH march comes to mind . I've got German heritage and yes I do believe many german goods are high quality , But man oh man you NEED that dream BMW , go trade the Jap in TOMORROW PLEASE.
STATUS SYMBOL...
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Just reality. Got what maybe 20 years left and impossible to tell how many of them good. :chugbeer:
Seriously Gary? :o
I believe that you and I are about the same age and I'm sure that I have at least 50 good years left.
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Family history on both sides strongly suggests having affairs in order by mid seventies. I can't imagine I'm special enough to beat those odds.
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What's the chances of major changes to the C14 over the next couple of years?
The odds are actually fairly high now. The C14 has been mostly unchanged for 6 model years, and completely unchanged for 4. They started collecting info from owners about what they would want changed, several months ago. With the release of the updated FJR, it will probably force Kawasaki to respond.
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What's the chances of major changes to the C14 over the next couple of years?
I'm thinking of upgrading from an 09 to a left over 2012. I got a good deal when I bought the 09 and the local dealer still has a 2012 he wants to move so I could be sitting on a new bike without dropping too much cash. I am happy with my 09 but feel now is the best time value wise (considering what I paid) to upgrade but I don't want to see a new C14 with longer range or nicer features come out in the next couple of years.
My only complaint that is'nt fixed with the 2012 is the fuel range so that's my main concern with upgrading now instead of waiting for the next generation.
So 200 miles or more on a tank isn't good? :o
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Even with my Russell seat, I find I need to stop at least every 100 miles or so.. I think the fuel range is fine, myself. However, if one has been used to longer ranges in other bikes before the C14, I can see where one might think it lacking. I had a C10 before my C14 and the range on that bike was very good, although I very rarely went from tank to tank. My 08 suits me as is.
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If I'm on a mission I can hold the 250 miles range on the saddle on my '08, but more often than not I either enjoy the drive (meaning I use more than the 20 or so HP necessary to move a bike of this weight and aerodynamics at 60 mph) or my butt and brain tell me to make a 15 minutes pause to regain strength and concentration.
I once did 310 miles non stop on a K1600, but I was going to Budapest, Hungary, and I knew I was going to park it in the hotel garage and not drive it for a couple of days, so it was ok. My girlfriend didn't talk to me for those couple of days, too. That was a bonus ;)
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Even with my Russell seat, I find I need to stop at least every 100 miles or so.. I think the fuel range is fine, myself. However, if one has been used to longer ranges in other bikes before the C14, I can see where one might think it lacking. I had a C10 before my C14 and the range on that bike was very good, although I very rarely went from tank to tank. My 08 suits me as is.
Me too. I used to go tank to tank on my Valkyrie but it only had about 135 mile range and I would stop about every 100 miles. Now with the C14 I can do 200 but still prefer to stop every 100. In places like Wyoming it is about not worrying if you can make it to another gas station. I still ride with 2 brothers and a son who are on Valkyries, and for them it is a problem.
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Back when I had my Camel (05 ST1300), I could go tank to tank pretty easy, 300+ miles. That was 7-8 years and several lower back procedures ago. 8) The ~200 mile range I get is about right, now.
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Up until now I've always stopped filling about a 1/4 inch below the fuel neck next time I will try filling all the way to the neck and see how much extra range that adds.
I am not sure. But I always fill up to a little above the plate.
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I will try filling all the way to the neck and see how much extra range that adds.
I dont think I would try that, the C-14 has the same warning the 03 Z1000 has. I read on riderforums of people filling the tank all the way & gas getting into the charcoal canister they posted about the bikes stalling or losing power.
The cool gas expands from the engine heat or the gas tank being in the sun.
I fill to the plate.
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I dont think I would try that, the C-14 has the same warning the 03 Z1000 has. I read on riderforums of people filling the tank all the way & gas getting into the charcoal canister they posted about the bikes stalling or losing power.
The cool gas expands from the engine heat or the gas tank being in the sun.
I fill to the plate.
Only CA bikes have the cannister crap. I fill mine up the very tippy top, rocking the bike slightly to burp the air out so I really am getting the gas up the top. One thing to remember is when you get this much gas in, if you park the bike on the side stand soon after, it'll drip gas out the over flow.
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Yes, the heavier K16 does make more torque in lower RPM (and LESS than the C14 in higher RPM). But roll-ons in what gear? Most "roll-on" tests are in top gear, and that is hardly valid on a C14 which has a true overdrive. 5th and under is the only valid comparison.
Hey Max, please stop spreading false information. ;) The C14 DOES NOT HAVE A OVERDRIVE! 6th gear is 1.07:1, which has been discussed many times already...
This is one of my gripes about the C14, and many newer vehicles in general. They keep setting the top gear ratio lower than it could be, so people don't have to down shift to pass. Personally I would rather have the top gear be maximum fuel economy, and deal with down shifting when needed. I usually drop down to 3rd to pass anyway. ;D
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Hey Max, please stop spreading false information. ;) The C14 DOES NOT HAVE A OVERDRIVE! 6th gear is 1.07:1, which has been discussed many times already...
This is one of my gripes about the C14, and many newer vehicles in general. They keep setting the top gear ratio lower than it could be, so people don't have to down shift to pass. Personally I would rather have the top gear be maximum fuel economy, and deal with down shifting when needed. I usually drop down to 3rd to pass anyway. ;D
According to Kwak engineering it is an 'Overdrive' and they call it as such.
Page 12... http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf (http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf)
And that's good enough for me....
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According to Kwak engineering it is an 'Overdrive' and they call it as such.
Page 12... http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf (http://www.kawasaki.com/Content/pdfs/products/concours_QandA.pdf)
And that's good enough for me....
I rarely use it, so it is indeed an overdrive for me.
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Hey Max, please stop spreading false information. ;) The C14 DOES NOT HAVE A OVERDRIVE! 6th gear is 1.07:1, which has been discussed many times already...
It depends on the exact meaning of "overdrive". Here is how Wikipedia primarily defines it:
"The most fundamental meaning is that of an overall gear ratio between engine and wheels, such that the car is now over-geared and can no longer reach its potential top speed, i.e. the car could travel faster if it were in a lower gear, with the engine turning more quickly."
That is certainly true with the C14. And it is labeled "Overdrive" too. I am mostly echoing what I had previously heard. The C14 has plenty of power... but not in OD (6th), and that is by design. Sorry, I wasn't meaning to make anyone upset..
.This is one of my gripes about the C14, and many newer vehicles in general. They keep setting the top gear ratio lower than it could be, so people don't have to down shift to pass. Personally I would rather have the top gear be maximum fuel economy, and deal with down shifting when needed. I usually drop down to 3rd to pass anyway. ;D
? The C14 in OD (6th) is only going like 3,000K to 3,500 RPM at highway speeds! That is about as low an RPM that could be tolerated on a bike that gets quite unhappy at anything lower (and has a redline of 10,500). I suppose it could have been pushed down a few hundred RPM more, but then downshifting would be necessary at legal highway speeds for even a several degree slope.
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Interesting debate. I am in the market for a new 2012 Concours 14. Just doing my research before I pull the trigger. I have owned 2 BMW's, Honda's, Yamaha's etc. The last two were the BMW's and I have a very bad taste in my mouth from them. Both were K bikes (inline fours), a K1200 GT and a K1200S. Both lost their ABS. On the GT, the brakes still worked fine, just no ABS so not a big deal. Wasnt worth it to fix the brakes. A $2000 repair on a bike worth $5K didnt make much sense. Then on the 06 K1200S, the ABS went out again. Had to fix it this time to the tune of $2600. I enjoyed both bikes but could not afford to keep them on the road. Looking forward to going back to a Jap bike that will run forever. Just gotta pull the trigger.
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I was dead set on low 1200RT 2011 left over till I drove the ZG,
Power can't campare no way no how , now with the ZX exhaust and Gulh flash the 1600 is a DOG.
A POODLE with a fancy hair cut ;D
Just so you're aware, the R1200RT and the K1600GT are totally different machines. The R has a 100hp air cooled flat twin and the K has a 160hp liquid cooled six cylinder engine. The K's engine dwarfs the Concours' torque output by about 30%.
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Just so you're aware, the R1200RT and the K1600GT are totally different machines. The R has a 100hp air cooled flat twin and the K has a 160hp liquid cooled six cylinder engine. The K's engine dwarfs the Concours' torque output by about 30%.
^^^^^that (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/icon10.gif)
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The K's engine dwarfs the Concours' torque output by about 30%.
Stock form yes. I really need to hit the dyno, bench racing is no fun when all ya have is butt dyno numbers ;)
Till then? My Ninjabago will smoke the K1600GT night and day ;D To keep it fair, I will loosen up the headlights so they can move left and right like the GT :o
BTW, I really hate bench racing, I wish someone would bring a GT to Pacific Raceways so we can do a one on one comparison 8)
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Stock form yes. I really need to hit the dyno, bench racing is no fun when all ya have is butt dyno numbers ;)
Till then? My Ninjabago will smoke the K1600GT night and day ;D To keep it fair, I will loosen up the headlights so they can move left and right like the GT :o
BTW, I really hate bench racing, I wish someone would bring a GT to Pacific Raceways so we can do a one on one comparison 8)
I'd like to see that too in real world, no matter which one wins.
Hey I thought this is called "arm-chair" racin' and now you had to get a bench (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/icon10.gif)
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I guess we know who wins in a straight line.
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012FebruaryK16vC14.pdf (http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012FebruaryK16vC14.pdf)
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I guess we know who wins in a straight line.
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012FebruaryK16vC14.pdf (http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2012FebruaryK16vC14.pdf)
"Engines & Performance—K1600GT 1st; C14 2nd.
Neither of these big-block sport-tourers left our test team with
much to complain about in the engine department. Both make
similar peak horsepower numbers, but we give the edge to the
BMW K1600GT despite the C14’s slight advantage during our
performance testing. The lighter C14 zipped from 0–60 mph in
just 2.91 sec. and from 0–100 mph in 6.56 sec. on the way to a
brisk 10.56 sec/127.68 mph in the quarter mile. That’s quicker
across the board than the GT’s best 0–60 time of 3.00 sec., 0–100
of 7.30 sec. and respectable 10.89 sec. @ 122.13 mph, but the
K1600GT still wins because its more prodigious torque output and
silkier, more responsive character work better in the real world."
So the C14 is quicker and has better numbers but the BMW still wins in this category? :o
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Well let them try a ZG with a Gulh flash and that would change , why Kaw wanted to tame the bike sooooo much with those secondary flys we will never know ::)
BUT we know with a few changes It can be undun ;)
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With a 300cc larger motor I would hope they had more torque. ???
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So the C14 is quicker and has better numbers but the BMW still wins in this category? :o
Yep, because marketing dollars speak very loudly.
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...but..but...MCN is supposed to be immune to marketing. :yikes:
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Yep, because marketing dollars speak very loudly.
That is a ridiculous premis. Prior to the K16 arriving, our beloved C14 was the media darling piling up all the editorial accolades. Was that "marketing dollars", or is this theory only valid when another machine manages to deserve more praise??? To that end, the C14 still gets a ton of praise....more marketing dollars???
Tell me...how is it that people here rave about the improvements in rideability and performance that a reflash or PCV provide over a stock C14, but then want to dismiss the K16's torque advantage???? Hmm must be Guhl and Power Commander throwing marketing dollars around to forum members. ::)
Having an engine that does have significantly more torque does make an appreciable difference in real world performance, single or two-up. It's a perfectly valid and factual observation, and why it results in butt hurt to some is a complete mystery.
Several posts ago, you finally acknowledge the K16 was the better bike......don't tell me BMW got to you with marketing dollars too Max? I demand a full investigation on the grounds of utter hypocracy.
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I have a BMW 1600GT as some of you know, and I had a Concours. Further, for about two months I had both bikes and alternated riding the two. The BMW is very torquey as everyone knows. The Concours needed to be downshifted a lot to keep up....as everyone knows. Two very different experiences. I like aspects of both. Love the BMW torque but wish it kept pulling to redline like the Concours does. Frankly, its not worth arguing one over the other.
On the other hand, my new Ducati makes it a mute point, I've got them both covered....
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/jjscorvettec6/Ducati/Ducatininjabmwside1000_zps6aade65f.jpg)
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I have a BMW 1600GT as some of you know, and I had a Concours. Further, for about two months I had both bikes and alternated riding the two. The BMW is very torquey as everyone knows. The Concours needed to be downshifted a lot to keep up....as everyone knows. Two very different experiences. I like aspects of both. Love the BMW torque but wish it kept pulling to redline like the Concours does. Frankly, its not worth arguing one over the other.
On the other hand, my new Ducati makes it a mute point, I've got them both covered....
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/jjscorvettec6/Ducati/Ducatininjabmwside1000_zps6aade65f.jpg)
Uh oh....more "marketing dollars" at work. Now the Italians are at it too ;)
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Uh oh....more "marketing dollars" at work. Now the Italians are at it too ;)
:rotflmao:
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That is a ridiculous premis.
Actually no it is not. They said it themselves- the C14 wins in 0-60. It wins in 0-100. It wins in 1/4 mile. And yet the article says all that and then says that the K1600GT "still wins because its more prodigious torque"? *THAT*, my friend, is a ridiculous premise.
They could have said "Although the C14 wins in every performance measurement, the K1600 still feels incredibly powerful." Or they could have said "Although the C14 is faster, we still prefer the tourqey feel of the K1600". Both would be reasonable.
... but then want to dismiss the K16's torque advantage????
Nobody is dismissing its torque advantage. See the above statement in context.
Having an engine that does have significantly more torque does make an appreciable difference in real world performance
Indeed it does- it allows it to almost keep up with the C14, while being very comfortable at the same time. But it doesn't "perform better", when "perform" is measured by acceleration and track time.
Several posts ago, you finally acknowledge the K16 was the better bike.
I said if money were no object, the K16 was a better OVERALL bike and had more features. I didn't "it is better" :) Big difference.
.....don't tell me BMW got to you with marketing dollars too Max? I demand a full investigation on the grounds of utter hypocracy.
Sigh.
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I heard that Kwak is going to remove the linked braking system with the 2014 models. They're also adding cruise...........................and cup holders. They're upping the powerplant to 1550CCs and wait for it..................................................................................................wait for it...
they're going to start building them in Germany.
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Actually no it is not. They said it themselves- the C14 wins in 0-60. It wins in 0-100. It wins in 1/4 mile. And yet the article says all that and then says that the K1600GT "still wins because its more prodigious torque"? *THAT*, my friend, is a ridiculous premise.
They could have said "Although the C14 wins in every performance measurement, the K1600 still feels incredibly powerful." Or they could have said "Although the C14 is faster, we still prefer the tourqey feel of the K1600". Both would be reasonable.
Nobody is dismissing its torque advantage. See the above statement in context.
Indeed it does- it allows it to almost keep up with the C14, while being very comfortable at the same time. But it doesn't "perform better", when "perform" is measured by acceleration and track time.
I said if money were no object, the K16 was a better OVERALL bike and had more features. I didn't "it is better" :) Big difference.
Sigh.
I see, so the magazines cannot declare a smoother engine with significantly better roll on times in top gear with very little measured disparity in acceleration between it and the C14 as the better sport-touring engine. Moreover, if they do see those virtues as being superior overall to simply being "the fastest" they are on the take from the mighty German marketing and bribery division in BMW. At least according to your critical thinking abilities.
Every article I have read gave the C14 it's due credit for best in class acceleration. Perhaps they have a more pragmatic criteria than you do for deeming what makes a better engine in a sport-touring bike, and have reasoned that a double digit advantage in torque, smoother operation, and more roll on power especially for two-up riding outweigh being a tenth or so slower down a track. Which incidentally is probably of little consideration when you want to get 1,000 miles down the road by days end.
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I heard that Kwak is going to remove the linked braking system with the 2014 models. They're also adding cruise...........................and cup holders. They're upping the powerplant to 1550CCs and wait for it..................................................................................................wait for it...
they're going to start building them in Germany.
IT'S ABOUT TIME
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I heard that Kwak is going to remove the linked braking system with the 2014 models. They're also adding cruise...........................and cup holders. They're upping the powerplant to 1550CCs and wait for it..................................................................................................wait for it...
they're going to start building them in Germany.
And in Kawi green too. ;D
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I heard they are dropping the stock stones and going with car tires because it handles better that way. ::)
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Every article I have read gave the C14 it's due credit for best in class
I am not even sure the two are in the same class, with the K16 being 60 to 70% more expensive. The roll seems to be the same, but price has to fit in there somewhere.
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I am not even sure the two are in the same class, with the K16 being 60 to 70% more expensive. The roll seems to be the same, but price has to fit in there somewhere.
Kawasaki Concours 14 MSRP: $16,199
BMW K1600GT MSRP: $21,200
That's a difference of 31%. Still a lot, but no where near the 60-70% you mentioned.
And the Concours is only faster if you wind it out to redline. In normal riding, the K1600 is faster; in other words, in a highway roll-on, the BMW would initially out-accelerate the Kawasaki, and depending on how long the race lasted, the Kawasaki would catch-up and pass, unless the Kawasaki rider dropped to a gear that put the engine >10k RPM.
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Kawasaki Concours 14 MSRP: $16,199
BMW K1600GT MSRP: $21,200
That's a difference of 31%. Still a lot, but no where near the 60-70% you mentioned.
And the Concours is only faster if you wind it out to redline. In normal riding, the K1600 is faster; in other words, in a highway roll-on, the BMW would initially out-accelerate the Kawasaki, and depending on how long the race lasted, the Kawasaki would catch-up and pass, unless the Kawasaki rider dropped to a gear that put the engine >10k RPM.
Are you saying that winding the big girl out to redline isn't normal? :o
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Puzzles me a bit as well...
So if the two beasts are running 120, the BMW would out accelerate the C14? What's the gear ratio on ours in 6th and the BMW in whatever gear it normally rides in on the highway?
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Kawasaki Concours 14 MSRP: $16,199
BMW K1600GT MSRP: $21,200
That's a difference of 31%. Still a lot, but no where near the 60-70% you mentioned.
They must have dropped the pricing for 2013, it was $24,540. Plus, unless something else has changed, you couldn't buy the K1600's for less than MSRP (sometimes even more). (And the adaptive headlight, electronic suspension, and GPS are not included at that price.) Yet anyone can buy the C14 for MUCH less than $16,199. People are buying the C14 at $14,500 without much effort, I paid $15,000 from my local dealer without shopping around; and the diff between $14,500 and $24,540 is 69%.
And the Concours is only faster if you wind it out to redline.
True. But that is why there is a redline.
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:censored: Totally agree. Why wouldn't you use the God given power on the bike to pass someone? Who gives a :censored: if you have to downshift or go to redline to smoke a BMW? You can still smoke it whenever you want to. That's like saying you can't use your powerband because some mamby pamby BMW can't... :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
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Let it out Jim. Not good to keep it all inside.
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Let it out Jim. Not good to keep it all inside.
Yeah, really... tell us how you REALLY feel!
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They have a demo bike near me
2013 BMW K1600GT Demo Starting at $25,840 Details Tampa Bay
++ TAX
That's over $1000. in tax also :o
Guhl Guts Flash $325. WAY cheaper
TROLL
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I paid a pubick hair over $12,000 for my new bike with a three year warranty that I'll never use BECAUSE it is NOT a BMW ;)
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Here's one for you :D If you Google problems they talk about what the problems are, the link does not show the messages
url=http://youtu.be/qF6PIK6Jpg4]http://youtu.be/qF6PIK6Jpg4[/url]
http://youtu.be/BpQMZGy_Lkc (http://youtu.be/BpQMZGy_Lkc)
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I want reverse, is that too much to ask for big ole heavy bikes like this? How hard would this be to do, it runs off the dang starter motor........GOLDWING.
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Let it out Jim. Not good to keep it all inside.
Yeah, really... tell us how you REALLY feel!
Quite!
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I want reverse, is that too much to ask for big ole heavy bikes like this? How hard would this be to do, it runs off the dang starter motor........GOLDWING.
Few people on the Forum can claim shorter legs than I, meaning I have probably the least amount of control and leverage when trying to "force" the bike around manually. But even I have never been stuck in a situation I needed reverse on the C14.... yet.
However, it is not hard to imagine a situation where I would be quite stuck without it. Make no mistake- if I were parked pointing downhill and with no way to go forward, I would probably be very screwed. I had a hard enough time with the ZRX in such a situation, but it becomes impossible on the C14 which is much heavier and larger (and taller).
Currently, the key is planning ahead so as not to be put in such a situation.
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There is always the option to just get off, and push it the manual way standing beside the bike......
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There is always the option to just get off, and push it the manual way standing beside the bike......
True and yet not necessarily.... depends on the incline. Some of us are stronger than others. Besides, pushing a bike backwards (presumably from the front) is a lot more difficult than pushing it forward (presumably from behind the bars). Admittedly, I don't have much experience with either. I guess it could be done from the side (one hand on bars, one hand on rear grab).