Guhl's ECU Flash For The Kawasaki Concours 1400 / GTR 1400...Group Buy?

[Armyguns]

Is this the first pure stock reflash we've had here? Will be interested in the ride report.

I'm pretty sure my 2010 was the first pure stock bike to get flashed.  There was a call put out seeking a donor STOCK bike from which Don would develop maps from.  I rode to Guhl's on 11 June 2011 for the first of what ended up to be 4 separate dyno visits over the next two months. Don Guhl and his able side-kick Rob had my bike up on the dyno in no time to get baseline runs before doing the first of several reflashes.  I was able to ride the bike for a period of time ranging from a couple days to a couple weeks before taking it back in with seat-of-the pants observations, followed up by before and after reflash dyno runs until we were all satisfied with the results.  I believe my final map is the map that Don is currently using for stock bikes.  I have more than 13,000 on the bike since the reflash and I have not had a single regret. 

[Conniesaki]

Thanks Rhino, I went back and reread. For some reason I thought you had an aftermarket exhaust 
 muffler.

Buwahahaha!!! Well played! 

[pistole]

- touche !

 

.

[maxtog]

I read somewhere that the U.S. spec ZX 10 bikes have the flies open later to keep noise down. That could be a reason why the C14's come neutered as they do.

Here is a snippet from a Suzuki article about it:

"The official word from Suzuki is that its SDTV (Suzuki Dual Throttle Valve) system brings superb response feel, smooth power delivery, improved mileage and reduced emissions. The secondary butterflies do this by opening just enough to provide the optimum intake velocity based on throttle position and rpm rather than letting you decide with your throttle inputs. For example, if you were to open the throttle fully at low rpm on a setup without the secondary butterflies, intake velocity would drop and the engine would not pull cleanly. In addition, the secondary butterflies can smooth the off/on response by opening at a set rate again, no matter how quickly you open the throttle. And as we’re finding out with more bikes in recent years, in some cases the secondary butterflies are used to restrict the engine’s output to meet emissions requirements. On many race bikes, the secondary butterflies are removed to give the rider more control over the throttle, quicken the throttle response and remove any restrictions"

I think Kawasaki probably "overdid" the "smooth" and "emissions" part.  From reading about it on other bikes, the effect of removing them or forcing them open more quickly sounds less dramatic than on the C-14.

[stewart]

Mine is Stock.

In addition to what Armyguns shared. I was prepared to ride 9hrs, but would have faced divorce.

After the work on the doner bike, Fred had his bike flashed, then road for a while with the PCV and Autotune with O2 sensor if I recall correctly. This information was then sent to Don for further tweaks and I think more agressive opening of the flys.

So I went with the 2nd more aggressive map.

I have no idea if Don still has the two maps for a stock bike/exchaust combo. But you should ask.

Maybe the next person who calls should ask Don to post a list.

[Conrad]

Mine is Stock.

In addition to what Armyguns shared. I was prepared to ride 9hrs, but would have faced divorce.

After the work on the doner bike, Fred had his bike flashed, then road for a while with the PCV and Autotune with O2 sensor if I recall correctly. This information was then sent to Don for further tweaks and I think more agressive opening of the flys.

So I went with the 2nd more aggressive map.

I have no idea if Don still has the two maps for a stock bike/exchaust combo. But you should ask.

Maybe the next person who calls should ask Don to post a list.

What does the 2nd more aggressive map entail?

[stewart]

further tweaks of the map and I think more agressive opening of the flys, that's all I recall.

If you want more details I suggest you call Don Guhl.

[katata1100]

Anyone know the before and after 1/4 miles of a stock c14 that has the mod?

[Rhino]

Thanks Rhino, I went back and reread. For some reason I thought you had an aftermarket exhaust 
 muffler.

Well in earlier posts I did talk about my desire to get an Area P slip on before getting the reflash. But since Guhl will reflash again for just the cost of shipping I decided to get the reflash now and maybe sometime down the road go for a full Area P.

[wally_games]

I'm pretty sure my 2010 was the first pure stock bike to get flashed.  There was a call put out seeking a donor STOCK bike from which Don would develop maps from.  I rode to Guhl's on 11 June 2011 for the first of what ended up to be 4 separate dyno visits over the next two months. Don Guhl and his able side-kick Rob had my bike up on the dyno in no time to get baseline runs before doing the first of several reflashes.  I was able to ride the bike for a period of time ranging from a couple days to a couple weeks before taking it back in with seat-of-the pants observations, followed up by before and after reflash dyno runs until we were all satisfied with the results.  I believe my final map is the map that Don is currently using for stock bikes.  I have more than 13,000 on the bike since the reflash and I have not had a single regret.

And there are copies of the dyno charts for all of these runs out there online where??? 

[katata1100]

And there are copies of the dyno charts for all of these runs out there online where??? 

There are some charts you can see on this thread:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1585.0
Even though peak hp gain is only a couple hp, note how it is like the across the board. The thing that sounds awesome is the amount of power gained at low rpms, I think as much as 30hp more if I read it correctly. Keeping the secondaries closed down there makes as much sense as Usan Bolt breathing through his noise during the first 20' of a race.

[stewart]

There are some charts you can see on this thread:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1585.0

I like this one...from the same thread but it was a 4th gear pull...http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1585.msg21074#msg21074

[maxtog]

There are some charts you can see on this thread:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1585.0
Even though peak hp gain is only a couple hp, note how it is like the across the board. The thing that sounds awesome is the amount of power gained at low rpms, I think as much as 30hp more if I read it correctly.

You read it incorrectly.  That was around +9 pounds of torque max down low.  HP was about +7 max down low.

[Madcow]

Anyone know the before and after 1/4 miles of a stock c14 that has the mod?

I think 6th gear roll-on would improve more than the 1/4 mile times.

[maxtog]

I think 6th gear roll-on would improve more than the 1/4 mile times.

Well, on the Concours, 6th gear roll-on is pretty meaningless and should never be used as any metric of performance.  It is a true overdrive- something most bikes lack.

Better to look at 5th gear roll-on, which is more like most other bikes' top gear.

[Rhino]

Well, on the Concours, 6th gear roll-on is pretty meaningless and should never be used as any metric of performance.  It is a true overdrive- something most bikes lack.

Better to look at 5th gear roll-on, which is more like most other bikes' top gear.

+1  I never do a 6th gear roll on. In fact I seldom use 6th gear except cruising on open flat roads. But I will say this reflash has definitely improved 4th and 5th gear roll on's.

[Pokey]

Kind of pricey, seems something sub 3 hundred makes more sense to me........none the less I will probably do it eventually.

[gPink]

Kind of pricey, seems something sub 3 hundred makes more sense to me........none the less I will probably do it eventually.

If you kept the stock headers w/cat and air filter you could pull the flys and not need a reflash or piggyback. You could run a slip on also. These bikes are mapped rich in the stock tune so unless you are actually changing volume of air flow it shouldn't affect the AFR too much. The secondary butterflys are an obstruction to air flow at less than WOT. All we're doing is removing that obstruction. If you were to go to a complete system, which drastically changes air flow, a reflash or fuel controller is necessary.

[lemosley01]

It's a little on the high-end, but Guhl put a lot of work into this and the ZX-14, and you have to remember that even successful motorcycle runs are limited to a few 10 thousands per year - with sport-tourers and sportbikes, they change so frequently that a huge amount of time and money can be spent to make something for them that is obsolete in just a few years and only applied to 20 or 30 thousand vehicles.

I think Don started this project with hacking the ZX14 CPU - once he had that, the Concours was either basically 'free' or more easy to figure out. Nonetheless he put a lot of time and knowhow into it.

You aren't paying for his time - you are paying for the years of experience he has that enabled him to reach this point.

Would I like it cheaper? Sure! Wouldn't we all but Don's gotta eat, buy cool toys, and he has to keep developing for other motorcycles as well.

The one thing that does make it seem expensive is you don't get the tools to do the tuning yourself - most of the time a $400 buys you the actual flashing device. I would LOVE to have the software/device to enable flashing and tuning on my own, but maybe those items are so specialized as to be cost-prohibitive for most of us.

[lemosley01]

I've heard pulling the flies causes the traction control to be 'less efficient'. Can anyone quantify how it behaves?