Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: RyanMCEnterprises on March 20, 2012, 08:36:33 AM
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G'day everyone! Well, since we got so much interest in designing and manufacturing a set of Canyon Cages for the Connie, I decided to start a new thread so we could discuss what you guys would really want in front-end protection. Seeing as how this would be a ground-up production, I'd really like to get your guys' feedback so we can build these things to the specifications of serious civilian riders. I have attached a few photos to this thread of current Canyon Cages we make so those of you not familiar with them can get an idea of where we'd be going with this.
I was looking at pictures of the GSG bars, which seem to be the aesthetic favorite, and I wondered a few things: Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application? Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification? Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage? How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)? Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible. I know it's a lofty goal but I'd like this Canyon Cage to be the end-all, be-all for civilian protection on the Concours. So, let's hear it! What would you like to see and what do you hate to see?
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Here are my opinions
1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that
2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also.
3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
No preference at this time.
3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
Lean angle does not matter much to me. (Read as old fart with large chicken strips.)
4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
They just look awful.
5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.
I really like the protection, as the bike is very top heavy. I know that I will drop it eventually. I just don't want to be seen sitting on the bike with those rails.
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Duplicate post. Please delete.
Seriously? I didn't see a thread regarding MC Enterprises manufacturing new front-end protection but if there is I apologize.
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Seriously? I didn't see a thread regarding MC Enterprises manufacturing new front-end protection but if there is I apologize.
I meant my post is was a duplicate. That is post number 3. Just that post not the thread.
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I'm going to follow Bosco's format here.
1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that, up to a point
2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also.
3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
No preference at this time.
3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
For me lean angle is VERY important. If the bars are going to limit my lean then I'll be looking elsewhere.
4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
They just look awful. I know that it's a tall order to make something that's going to do the job yet still look good. The bars should follow the lines of the bike.
This maybe difficult to engineer into the bars but some guys would like to be able to mount aux lighting to the bars.
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I meant my post is was a duplicate. That is post number 3. Just that post not the thread.
Ohhh, I see what you were saying now. My bad, I thought you meant there had already been a thread on this subject. :-X
Here are my opinions
1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that
2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also.
1) It's not that it would be "better" necessarily, just better looking. All drilling into the fairing does is expose internal mounting points so you can make a more direct, compact bar. Although, that does add a bit of strength to the bars. However, it takes away from the surface area it protects. So, it's a bit of give and take.
2) Unfortunately, that may require getting a second bike in our facility. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make a Canyon Cage for both generations but we may have to take it one step at a time and work with what we can get our hands on.
3) Regarding AUX lighting, I've been considering welding a small plate with a single hole on the inside portion of the bar (the part closest to the bike so it's hidden when not in use) as long as space permits.
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It's a tall order, but look at a Goldwing as a guide, they have probably the least obtrusive tip-over bars, but one of the most effective.
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It's a tall order, but look at a Goldwing as a guide, they have probably the least obtrusive tip-over bars, but one of the most effective.
I'll definitely check into those! Anything I can use to get ideas would be great. I know it's going to be nearly impossible but I'd really like these bars to be a culmination of everything we love in tip-over protection while eliminating as many things we hate as reasonably possible.
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The Top-Block look the best and also require fairing hole. Also very pricey. The above picture of the R6 where the two bars meet should have a slider on the common mounting point two keep that from digging in the road. Maximum lean angle necessary. Bars should follow lines of bike in order to look as integral as possible.
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Yes, that's a great format ...
1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that (I agree)
2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also. (Don't care, as I have the newer model.)
3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
No preference at this time.
3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
Very important to me.
4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
I don't mind the looks. I currently have them installed.
5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.
I wish that there was a quick removal system. If the main mounting tubes were of a two piece design incorporating a solid internal pin that was cross drilled to accept a locking pin or a locking pin like is used on receiver trailer hitches that would be nice. That way the outer section could be easily removed as needed. It’s just that it’s a pain to have to deal with the guards each time when you need to take the plastic off of the bike.
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These are all great points, keep them coming! I'm taking notes over here so when we begin to do preliminary design I can keep all of this stuff in mind and incorporate as much as possible!
So it seems as though drilling is acceptable as long as the bar looks great and functions well. Perhaps I can cook up a similar design to those of the Top-Blocks that don't cost $700. ::)
I also love the idea of the quick-removal system (I've actually been looking into this for a while) but I have some serious considerations regarding strength. I'll have to look into this more when we have a preliminary design in mind and I have the bike in front of me to look at.
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Duplicate post. Please delete.
You can just hit remove from the top right corner of your own post if you are signed in.
Ryan please advise if tou get any volunteers for an 08/09. If nobody volunteers I guess I will get a set of GSG sliders for the front. I do not mind drilling if it helps with looks and strength. Otherwise I prefer to be able to lean and that is about my only concern.
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Ryan please advise if tou get any volunteers for an 08/09. If nobody volunteers I guess I will get a set of GSG sliders for the front. I do not mind drilling if it helps with looks and strength. Otherwise I prefer to be able to lean and that is about my only concern.
I'll definitely keep you posted, bud. The only way I'd allow for drilling is if it really helped the aesthetics and strengthened the bar. So, if we do end up with a design that requires drilling you can be sure there's a purpose for it. I really don't think lean angle will be an issue with these bars, they'll allow you to go over as far as your tires will let you. ;)
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I just sent a PM to So Cal Joe to see if he could help out MCE or if he knew anybody down there that would give up there bike for a week.
So Cal Joe and a friend of his both have a 2009. I will send him a link to this thread and I will continue looking for someone willing to volunteer a 2011.
1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that (I agree) +2
2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also. (Don't care, as I have the newer model.) +1
3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
No preference at this time.
3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
Very important to me. +1. The bars better not hit before my foot peg .
4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
I don't like that some of the sliders requires you to buy front wheel slider as well. That made me think of something. With the MCE rear bag guards will I still need rear axle sliders?
5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.
See above ;D
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Looking at your pictures, those GSXR bars are a bit obtrusive looking to me, but I really like the looks of the ones on the R6. I'd agree that there needs to be a slider of some sort on that forward point to prevent it from digging in in impact.
Also, I ride a 2011, so obviously that would be my priority. Anything you'd design would have to follow the lines of the bike really well so as to make them less noticable.
1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better looking with drilling, I would be OK with that.
2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
I'd prefer to drill a hole rather than have some big honkin' bar hanging out there.
3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
What's a 2.5 point cage? I'd think that a 3 point would be stronger than a 2 point.
3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
I want to be able to get the Connie over to the pegs without touching other hardware.
4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
The Top Blocks for the 2010+ are just plain ugly, unlike the 2008/2009 model which follow the lines of the bike really well, but their price is just way too far up there.
5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.
See above.
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Looking at your pictures, those GSXR bars are a bit obtrusive looking to me, but I really like the looks of the ones on the R6. I'd agree that there needs to be a slider of some sort on that forward point to prevent it from digging in in impact.
Also, I ride a 2011, so obviously that would be my priority. Anything you'd design would have to follow the lines of the bike really well so as to make them less noticable.
1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better looking with drilling, I would be OK with that.
2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
I'd prefer to drill a hole rather than have some big honkin' bar hanging out there.
3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
What's a 2.5 point cage? I'd think that a 3 point would be stronger than a 2 point.
3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
I want to be able to get the Connie over to the pegs without touching other hardware.
4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
The Top Blocks for the 2010+ are just plain ugly, unlike the 2008/2009 model which follow the lines of the bike really well, but their price is just way too far up there.
5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.
See above.
Good points. If we end up going ahead with a design for the Connie I'll definitely look into putting a thin delrin tip if the bars come to a similar point as they do on the R6.
A 2.5 point cage has two mounting points on either side of the bike and then connect together somewhere, generally underneath the bike. The Canyon Cage for the GSXR is a 2.5 point cage as it connects underneath. The difference between a 2 and 3 point cage isn't so much strength (either one is plenty strong to hold up in a tip-over incident) but weight distribution. That's one bad thing about generic frame sliders: When the bike goes over, the entire weight of the bike is on one single point which can lead to dents in the frame. The distribution of force is wider when the guard mounts to the frame in more than one or two spots.
I also agree that regardless of style, the bar needs to follow the lines of the bike well. That's really the main thing that helps the guards disappear into the fairing, is when it looks like it really belongs there and goes with the contours of the Concours (see what I did there?!).
Hopefully I can work on the owners and get a new Connie in our facility to toy around with!
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I prefer not to drill a hole in the plastic. If I sell the bike in the future, I want to remove the bars in the event I buy an updated C14 mechanically with the same mounting points in the future. Or if I go a different route, I want to beable to sell the parts unless a buyer was willing to pay a reasonable amount for them.
For me sh=t happens when I drill holes. Be my luck the hole would get botched.
I want protection that will allow me to get sporty in the mountains. I do not want to have to worry about dropping it while doing parking lot manuevers. I think the fact that parking lot practice can be expensive when dropped without proper protection sticks in people's mind and makes them more timid than they should be.
The ability to have a quick disconnect is a great idea.
I like the idea you are willing to give the group buyers consideration when/if you are able to produce the canyon bars. We will take a hit on the fronts when we try to sell them.
A mounting point for auxillary lighting would be nice. I have a set of PIAAs ready to mount when I get my bars.
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Is it possible to add a tab to the front of bar or a threaded insert for highway pegs that would look more in keeping with this sleek looking bike? If so I'm in for a set.
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I have a couple comments...
First off I think it's great what Ryan and MCE are doing here with this thread and interaction, actually listening to their potential customers during the design faze, wow what a concept!
:thumbs: :hail:
For many of years everbody (other than maybe one or two who have no taste...) have voiced that the Top Block setup is the best looking (and functional) product available for the Connie. One problem for some though is that buying from Top Block can be challenging since they're a French company and their website is not as english friendly as it could be during the inquiry/ordering process. The other problem for some is that the cost of the Top Block solution is quite spendy to some...
For as long as I've been a part of this forum folks are always pushing for (and some even trying it on their own) to design and manufacture a product similar to the Top Block at a lower cost and available in the USA...
FWIW Ryan, maybe MCE should try and design something just similar to the Top Block but at a lower cost, and obviously since you are a US company it would be much easier for the US market to purchase, plus I would think you have the design engineers and machinery to pull off something like that product much easier than the typical creative forum member doing trial/error experiments in their home garage...
Either way I wish you the best on this whatever direction it goes, I like seeing my brutha's here getting what they want and being proud of the looks of it! :)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)
I myself am perfectly happy with my Top Block set-up! 8) ;D ;)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00194-20110408-1706.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00862-20120303-1331.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00776-20120108-1341.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00860-20120303-1331.jpg)
Not only look good but they also work... :thumbs:
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/134427771_lVdLo9wF.jpg)
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Is it possible to add a tab to the front of bar or a threaded insert for highway pegs that would look more in keeping with this sleek looking bike? If so I'm in for a set.
I put a pair of clip-on pegs on the engine guards for my Tiger and those work great. I would rather do that on the Canyon Cage bars then to have another ugly tab.
If you try and copy the Top-Block sliders, highway pegs would not be possible >:(
My two cents.
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The problem with the Top Blocks, as demonstrated in ZG's last pic, is that they might not protect the bags. In a controlled parking lot type drop, in which the rider knows that the bike is going down and he does his best to help her down as gently as possible, the Top Blocks alone would work fine. But I think that a rougher drop would cause a little tipping or even a bounce that would bang the corner of the bags.
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The problem with the Top Blocks, as demonstrated in ZG's last pic, is that they might not protect the bags. In a controlled parking lot type drop, in which the rider knows that the bike is going down and he does his best to help her down as gently as possible, the Top Blocks alone would work fine. But I think that a rougher drop would cause a little tipping or even a bounce that would bang the corner of the bags.
First off, I'd like to thank ZG for the kind words! We certainly do our best to satisfy our customers and it's not always as easy as it seems! I think the design of the Top Blocks is optimal and I'll begin building off that idea. I can tell you that our version would probably be tubular though and not cast which would cut down tremendously on cost.
Do any of you guys have an issue with tubular Canyon Cages as opposed to the cast variation of the Top Blocks? A tubular design would help keep the cost cut nearly in half.
Regarding Conrads comments, I don't think any front-end protection is going to fully protect the rear end of the bike. This is partially why we decided to design a separate guard for the rear of the bike.
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First off, I'd like to thank ZG for the kind words! We certainly do our best to satisfy our customers and it's not always as easy as it seems! I think the design of the Top Blocks is optimal and I'll begin building off that idea. I can tell you that our version would probably be tubular though and not cast which would cut down tremendously on cost.
Do any of you guys have an issue with tubular Canyon Cages as opposed to the cast variation of the Top Blocks? A tubular design would help keep the cost cut nearly in half.
Regarding Conrads comments, I don't think any front-end protection is going to fully protect the rear end of the bike. This is partially why we decided to design a separate guard for the rear of the bike.
I love the look of ZG's Top Block tip over protection. But, if you've ever seen the ugly ones that they make for the newer models, you'd say "no way am I putting those on my bike". The don't follow the lines of the bike at all like ZG's model. They're tubular too, which is ok with me, but not "fitting in" is a problem in my mind.
Are we talking ONLY tip over protection? Or, are we talking about something to offer some protection in a slide?
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(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00194-20110408-1706.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/134427771_lVdLo9wF.jpg)
These are not the same bars. The bottom one looks tubular. The top one, looks like it is from your bike ZG, but the bottom one looks like it is off of another bike.
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Ha, busted....
Anybody that takes that many pictures of his bike would not chance scratching it by setting it on its side? :P :P :P
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These are not the same bars. The bottom one looks tubular. The top one, looks like it is from your bike ZG, but the bottom one looks like it is off of another bike.
Correct, the top pics are of mine (2009 model), the bike on it's side is Freds (2010 model)... I don't have the guts to willingly lay mine on it's side... :'(
It's the same design concept though.
Ha, busted....
Anybody that takes that many pictures of his bike would not chance scratching it by setting it on its side? :P :P :P
True dat Gumbi! ;D
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Are we talking ONLY tip over protection? Or, are we talking about something to offer some protection in a slide?
Well, when I say tip-over protection I just mean fairing guards in general. It'd be nice if the final product we do come out with would be strong enough to withstand a sliding impact (similar to the way our current guards hold up). To me, it seems the design is going to determine how beat up the bike will be after a sliding impact rather than the strength. TopBlocks guards are certainly strong enough to withstand a sliding impact but their low position on the fairing seems to allow the bike to "rock" onto the mirrors or handlebars during a more violent spill. In a perfect world, I'd like to design low-profile bars that do not restrict lean angle whatsoever yet come up high enough on the body of the bike to stop it from "rocking" onto the mirrors if you were to go down at speed.
I already have a base design in mind that I'm toying with and it appears as though a 2.5 point cage similar to our GSXR Canyon Cage may be best. There would be two mounting points on either side of the bike (most likely where the rear of the TopBlock guard mounts, to the lower mount we currently use inside the vents, to a connection point underneath the bike). However, I'm not quite sure yet if this design will allow mounting without drilling or not.
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I'd really like to get your guys' feedback so we can build these things to the specifications of serious civilian riders.
My responses are not in any particular order
1) I think your canyons look 1,000 times better than the bathroom bars.
2) I personally wouldn't care if it were 2, 3, or even 4 mount points.
3) I personally don't care about EXTREME lean angles.
4) I am *very* averse to drilling or modifying my fairing panels.
5) It would be nice to have other color options. Black won't look good on light colored bikes, leaving only the chrome option. Chrome doesn't meld terribly well the the Concours, which uses an aluminum look on the sides, pegs, etc and has NO chrome anywhere. Also, chrome can't be easily be repaired or fixed if it gets badly scuffed. My personal preference would be to have a silver/gray powdercoat option.
6) I am not thrilled about any protection that requires removing them and then reinstalling them every time I need to take the fairings off. It is already hard enough to change a turn signal bulb... However, I understand that there is probably no other option. GSG's are about the most you can do for the front without impeding fairing removal.
7) I don't expect perfect protection from a true slide/accident. Like most people, I am looking for 100% protection from tip-overs, and extremely low speed fall-overs (like stop lights, u-turns, bad footing, etc). This might also answer your strength question, too.
Hope this helps.
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1) I think your canyons look 1,000 times better than the bathroom bars.
2) I personally wouldn't care if it were 2, 3, or even 4 mount points.
3) I personally don't care about EXTREME lean angles.
4) I am *very* averse to drilling or modifying my fairing panels.
5) It would be nice to have other color options. Black won't look good on light colored bikes, leaving only the chrome option. Chrome doesn't meld terribly well the the Concours, which uses an aluminum look on the sides, pegs, etc. Also, chrome can't be easily be repaired or fixed if it gets badly scuffed.
6) I am not thrilled about any protection that requires removing them and then reinstalling them every time I need to take the fairings off. It is already hard enough to change a turn signal bulb... However, I understand that there is probably no other option. GSG's are about the most you can do for the front without impeding fairing removal.
Hope this helps.
Thanks, Max! I appreciate all opinions!
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The problem with the Top Blocks, as demonstrated in ZG's last pic, is that they might not protect the bags. In a controlled parking lot type drop, in which the rider knows that the bike is going down and he does his best to help her down as gently as possible, the Top Blocks alone would work fine. But I think that a rougher drop would cause a little tipping or even a bounce that would bang the corner of the bags.
I, too, have pointed that out in many posts. In a real-world situation, I seriously doubt the Top Block will protect the bags, the bike is going to roll over and smash the bags for sure, unless you very carefully and slowly PLACE the bike on its side. It doesn't have to be a "rougher drop", just a push over and I bet it will smash the bags. Plus, if the ground is not level, you will have lost your 1" clearance or whatever it might have been.
So I think even with Top Block, you would still need the MCE small rear bars to be effective.
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The white elephant in the room is probably these, mentioned in another thread:
http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/6763/602/ (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/6763/602/)
http://www.rg-racing.com/browseType/Adventure_Bars/AB0002BK.aspx (http://www.rg-racing.com/browseType/Adventure_Bars/AB0002BK.aspx)
"R&G Adventure Bars." No question this is the same general class that McE is targeting with "Canyon Cages" :)
They are pretty darn thin. And there are no photos anywhere from an angle, so it is hard to tell the protrusion. Zero info about how much protection on front fairings/mirror/etc for a tipover.
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Just in case anyone is intersted in how the Top Block mounts and why/where you have to drill the hole here is the install directions translated into english and also an overview of how/where they mount.
Maybe this will be helpfull in your brainstorming session...
This is a fun and entertaining thread! :popcorn:
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Just in case anyone is intersted in how the Top Block mounts and why/where you have to drill the hole here is the install directions translated into english and also an overview of how/where they mount.
Maybe this will be helpfull in your brainstorming session...
This is definitely helpful, thank you for posting! I'll take a look at their mounting instructions and see if I can pry any useful information out of 'em!
The white elephant in the room is probably these, mentioned in another thread:
http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/6763/602/ (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/6763/602/)
http://www.rg-racing.com/browseType/Adventure_Bars/AB0002BK.aspx (http://www.rg-racing.com/browseType/Adventure_Bars/AB0002BK.aspx)
"R&G Adventure Bars." No question this is the same general class that McE is targeting with "Canyon Cages" :)
They are pretty darn thin. And there are no photos anywhere from an angle, so it is hard to tell the protrusion. Zero info about how much protection on front fairings/mirror/etc for a tipover.
Yes, I've seen these before! These are a good example of what we're looking to do, as well. I'm not sure I like how close the lower mount gets to the brake/shifter but it's hard to tell from the picture that was provided.
When you say thin, do you mean the material they used to make the bar itself or are you talking about how far they protrude from the fairings? I've come to realize that material diameter doesn't matter quite as much as the wall thickness of said material. Generally we go with either 1" or 7/8" material with a wall thickness of 0.083. However, protrusion on our Canyon Cages won't be an issue as they're going to be insanely close to the fairing.
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Ryan, you need to be sure the new fronts blend well with the small rears I just bought. ;D
In the several accidents/wrecks I've had on bikes, both low and high speed, these are my thoughts:
1. Damage is inevitable.
2. Low speed damage can be mitigated somewhat with the measures we are discussing. 5mph and -
3. High speed crash the main concern I have is keeping the bike off me. Few crashes are a race track flat slide to a grass runoff. In a crash at speed the bags are going to go away. The small rears will give me separation time. In order for front protection to save the plastic we're back to the cop setup. Obviously this is unacceptable.
So what we have is a form/function-function/form compromise to settle on. So the end result for me is low speed drops are covered and high speed crashs I survive to collect the insurance. And look good doing it. Good luck. :)
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This is definitely helpful, thank you for posting! I'll take a look at their mounting instructions and see if I can pry any useful information out of 'em!
No worries bro, happy to help the brainstorming efforts here...
Keep in mind that those are for the 08/09 Connie (because the 09 ABS black is the best all around Connie ever built! ;) ), not sure about the 10+ design but maybe somebody out there with the 10+ TB design can post up the install directions and mounting schematic for theirs.
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...
They are pretty darn thin. And there are no photos anywhere from an angle, so it is hard to tell the protrusion. Zero info about how much protection on front fairings/mirror/etc for a tipover.
Front shots here... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2778.msg31921#msg31921 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2778.msg31921#msg31921)
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Front shots here... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2778.msg31921#msg31921 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2778.msg31921#msg31921)
Wow- forgot about that thread. Thanks.
Still kinda hard to tell protrusion, but they look to be really close to the fairing.
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Just a little input, some guys have Ronnie's Highway pegs, they attach like this:
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When I mentioned pegs I had these BMW models (link below) in mind for those who want them. They are barely seen when not in use or in our case here it could be offered as an add on or make a provision to allow the owner to mount them. I don't like buying separate peg mounts whereas the crash protection is strong enough to do both jobs and look well. It's great to have someone like Ryan to listen to our needs and design the best solution at a reasonable price.
http://www.cvmtouringaccessories.com/J_Pegs/default.html (http://www.cvmtouringaccessories.com/J_Pegs/default.html)
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When I mentioned pegs I had these BMW models (link below) in mind for those who want them. They are barely seen when not in use or in our case here it could be offered as an add on or make a provision to allow the owner to mount them. I don't like buying separate peg mounts whereas the crash protection is strong enough to do both jobs and look well. It's great to have someone like Ryan to listen to our needs and design the best solution at a reasonable price.
http://www.cvmtouringaccessories.com/J_Pegs/default.html (http://www.cvmtouringaccessories.com/J_Pegs/default.html)
Oh man, those are fricken trick! If the canyon cage has a horizontal bar along the bottom, something like that could be attached underneath and be hidden when not in use...
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Oh man, those are fricken trick! If the canyon cage has a horizontal bar along the bottom, something like that could be attached underneath and be hidden when not in use...
+1
I like this idea :o
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I'll definitely keep the low-profile highway peg idea in mind! I like how some of those styles can be tucked away out of sight when not in use.
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Hmm,
no drilling,
Ground clearance is essential.
You wrote that you make the bars out of 7/8 or 1" bar.
A lot of people will want to add hi-way pegs and lights to these bars.
Which diameter has more after-market support?
Or, maybe you could make the bars out of a combination of both diameters?
Or doesn't it matter?
Maybe some pre drilled flanges to add lights as an option?
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Thank you for making the effort to ask the question Ryan. This is a great example of how the motorcycle community and vendors can work together better.
1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
NO drilling is best if possible since I would like to resell the bike (eventually) and keep the cage for the next Concours.
2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
Beefier bars would be best.
3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
No preference at this time.
3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
I use my machine for highway cruising so lean angle is less of an issue. Generally I am scraping boots and pegs long before anything gets too serious.
4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
The current set looks “law enforcement” focused and I understand that was the original market but I don’t need that much frontage.
5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.
N/A
I am less concerned about the bags now that I have your small guards. I'd keep the combination of the smaller bag guards and Canyon Cages in mind so powder coating and chrome need to be available.
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Ryan,
On my 2010 Connie I have the frame slider kit from Projektd.com, which does a satisfactory job of protecting the plastic in tip-over situations as long as the bike is not top-heavy with camping gear and a top case. During my cross-country tour last summer, I had the misfortune of laying the bike over during a U-turn and the extra weight caused the bike to lay all the way over onto its side. Thanks to the slider post, the front fairing was unscathed, but the left mirror and the left saddlebag both got scratched. Unfortunately I don't have anything more than the sliders mounted near the rear wheel hub, which cannot protect the bags in this situation.
Thus I would recommend that any aftermarket protection take this type of scenario into account.
Don
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saw this on the other board...
drop test deans camera 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWBr-vsycBk#)
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saw this on the other board...
drop test deans camera 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWBr-vsycBk#)
That's pretty impressive since it is a "real" tipover test. Just let it fall.... none of this "placing" it down, or lowering it with straps, just let go!
But what is it? Looks similar to some of the police-oriented ones I have seen in other pictures and videos. The rear bars are far more elaborate than should be needed. The fronts stick out a LOT, *and* require drilling. No denying the design seems to be effective, though.
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I really appreciate all the replies, everyone! We have some really great information coming out, so this is awesome! I am definitely reading all comments and taking everything into account.
Have you guys not seen our drop video before? Concours Tip Over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xVzKUoHJk#)
Granted, this tip over test was done with the *beefier* front end protection that we made for a specific customer. However, our current bars hold up just as well in similar situations but we haven't had a chance to do actual drop tests with them in our facility. I'm still trying to talk the owners into giving me the go ahead for the Canyon Cage style and I'm really making some progress. We should be ready to move on these within a few weeks or so. It's just been so hectic lately with trying to get all the new models in that the owner has been a bit stressed so I'm weary about how much I present to him and when. I'll definitely keep you guys posted!
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You could give US his email. :rotflmao:
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The white elephant in the room is probably these, mentioned in another thread:
http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/6763/602/ (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/6763/602/)
http://www.rg-racing.com/browseType/Adventure_Bars/AB0002BK.aspx (http://www.rg-racing.com/browseType/Adventure_Bars/AB0002BK.aspx)
"R&G Adventure Bars." No question this is the same general class that McE is targeting with "Canyon Cages" :)
They are pretty darn thin. And there are no photos anywhere from an angle, so it is hard to tell the protrusion. Zero info about how much protection on front fairings/mirror/etc for a tipover.
The only reason these are not on my 2010 is the removal of them to get under the plastics. I like this design very well.
I do like the GSXR bars in your first posts and would prefer these to the RG units
John
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The only reason these are not on my 2010 is the removal of them to get under the plastics. I like this design very well.
I do like the GSXR bars in your first posts and would prefer these to the RG units
John
I definitely prefer the Canyon Cages for civilian use as well, at least compared to our current version. Ours will probably come out similar to the RGs but obviously I want to make a unique product that will match the saddle bag guards we currently make. I'm really pushin' to get them going for you guys! :)
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saw this on the other board...
drop test deans camera 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWBr-vsycBk#)
:o
Wow those are some ugly bars on a bike... I guess you could tie some tassles on them for parade day.
You guys are digressing now... :(
:doublepuke:
I thought the point of this thread was to design something that actually looks good... :-\
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Come on Jay, you know those rear guards would go well with your bike, especially in chrome.
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Come on Jay, you know those rear guards would go well with your bike, especially in chrome.
:yikes: (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/mad.gif)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/Bitchslap6.gif)
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["R&G Adventure Bars."]The only reason these are not on my 2010 is the removal of them to get under the plastics. I like this design very well.
I do like the GSXR bars in your first posts and would prefer these to the RG units
You might prefer them, but I think you will find that the Canyon design for a Concours is probably also going to block the fairings removal. It kinda comes with the territory. Even the Top Guard design blocks and goes through the lower fairing.
I have seen only two designs for front (front sides) protection that do not block fairing removal- GSG and the Project D Extreme Slider type design that sticks out a single post from one of the fairing vent holes. Of course, the less metal and the less coverage, the less protection.
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Come on Jay, you know those rear guards would go well with your bike, especially in chrome.
ONLY black for ZG...
But really, for full protection, you pretty much HAVE to get something on the rear too. Just front won't cut it. And the McE small rears are really not bad looking.... UNLESS you want to ride without the bags. I have not seen a photo of the Concours with McE small rears and the bags off, but I can't image that would look very good.
And in ZG's case, I think he typically rides without the side bags.
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You could give US his email. :rotflmao:
Hahahahaha I think that would hurt more than help, actually. Pops is a sensitive being. :-X
You guys are digressing now... :(
:doublepuke:
I thought the point of this thread was to design something that actually looks good... :-\
Those are not our bars. I think someone posted the video merely to demonstrate the strength of generic front-end protection. I don't plan on designing anything that looks close to that, I'm working on going in a different direction.
You might prefer them, but I think you will find that the Canyon design for a Concours is probably also going to block the fairings removal. It kinda comes with the territory. Even the Top Guard design blocks and goes through the lower fairing.
I have seen only two designs for front (front sides) protection that do not block fairing removal- GSG and the Project D Extreme Slider type design that sticks out a single post from one of the fairing vent holes. Of course, the less metal and the less coverage, the less protection.
This is spot on. Designing bars for the Connie that allow for easy removal of the fairing is truly a difficult task. I'm going to play around with trying to design some sort of quick-release system for the Canyon Cages but it's looking pretty tough. I believe it's doable but I'm afraid of what it will do to the strength of the bars. Once I get the go-ahead and get a bike in the shop, I can start playing with some different designs and start making more progress! Man, this is actually pretty exciting! Coming back to the forums, updating you guys, hearing your feedback and ideas, etc.. I dig it!
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Man, this is actually pretty exciting! Coming back to the forums, updating you guys, hearing your feedback and ideas, etc.. I dig it!
Trust me Ryan, you're gonna end up buying a Connie after all this is said and done, don't tell me that we aren't wetting your pallet bro... ;)
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ONLY black for ZG...
And in ZG's case, I think he typically rides without the side bags.
True dat Max on both counts bro! 8) (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/metal.gif)
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Trust me Ryan, you're gonna end up buying a Connie after all this is said and done, don't tell me that we aren't wetting your pallet bro... ;)
Oh believe me I've loved these bikes from the beginning. We've been making parts for them for a few years now so I've had the pleasure of being around them quite a bit. They're an all-around great bike for sure, it's no wonder cops use 'em. To tell you the truth, though, I've wanted a Harley since I was a little kid. My Dad rides a Harley (among other bikes) and I've always thought it was the most bad ass thing ever. I currently ride a 2011 Yamaha FZ8 and have been looking at a few different bikes to get serious about once I'm done paying off the FZ in a year or so. Although, that's not to say a Connie isn't somewhere in my future. They really are awesome and I could definitely see myself gleamin' down PCH on one!
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Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?
One idea is along with Black and chrome is offer them raw metal. It would allow the few that want an uncommon color to paint them up as they like. It would also be ideal for those that want to add light mounts, highway pegs, fishing pole holders, ladder rack, pinwheel holders, etc, ;D and have them coated on their own.
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Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?
:goodpost:
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Oh believe me I've loved these bikes from the beginning. We've been making parts for them for a few years now so I've had the pleasure of being around them quite a bit. They're an all-around great bike for sure, it's no wonder cops use 'em. To tell you the truth, though, I've wanted a Harley since I was a little kid. My Dad rides a Harley (among other bikes) and I've always thought it was the most bad ass thing ever. I currently ride a 2011 Yamaha FZ8 and have been looking at a few different bikes to get serious about once I'm done paying off the FZ in a year or so. Although, that's not to say a Connie isn't somewhere in my future. They really are awesome and I could definitely see myself gleamin' down PCH on one!
Hey Ryan, have you ever seen this?
You seem like a guy with a good sense of humor, I think that you'll enjoy it.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word (http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word)
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To tell you the truth, though, I've wanted a Harley since I was a little kid. My Dad rides a Harley (among other bikes) and I've always thought it was the most bad ass thing ever.
Go ahead and break the illusion... get one. It won't take long before you want to trade it in for a Concours ;)
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Go ahead and break the illusion... get one. It won't take long before you want to trade it in for a Concours ;)
Goes back to that lean angle question. ;)
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Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?
You are correct!
If you were to remove all the plastics it is a chore.
The problem is most of the time whatever may go wrong on the road you can get to, or at least see, from under the upper plastics, which I can have off in 5 minutes per side, as most others who have taken them off more than once would be able to do also.
I am hesitant to start pulling engine mount bolts along the side of the road or in parking lots so I am able to pull the plastics to get to a throttle cable end, cruise control cable or whatever else it may be.
The reason for this is when I mounted my highway pegs to the upper engine mount on the left side, the bolt would not start in the threads. The hole was less than a half thread off. I had to place a scissor jack under the engine and put a slight amount of pressure on the engine and the bolt went right in.
One of the tools I do not carry on a IB ride or flower-sniffin ride is a scissor jack, nor do I want to be concerned about the consequences, if for some reason I had to remove the uppers, whether or not I would be able to get that bolt back in.
So no, there is no race to see how fast one can get the plastics or the crash bars off. Just a practical concern of where it is the most inconvenient place something will happen when the time comes that I HAVE to get the bars off. I do not get 15000 miles a year in a 7 month riding season by riding back and forth to work.
If this newly designed unit were similar in design to the R&G unit with the upper engine bolt needing to be removed to get the uppers off, I would pass on them just as I have on the R&G units, simply because it would not meet my needs for what I find necessary for me personally. At that point I would have to bite the bullet and purchase the Top Block units because I feel that strongly about having access to the upper plastics.
John
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One idea is along with Black and chrome is offer them raw metal.
We do offer them in raw metal! Sometimes, all you have to do is ask! ;D
Well, maybe not offer but we have no problem hooking up customers with a raw set if they ask for it. Actually, I believe someone in this group buy purchased a raw set. It may take a little longer to ship out as we have to wait for the current production to come through and then we just pluck one out before sending the rest off to our finishers.
Hey Ryan, have you ever seen this?
You seem like a guy with a good sense of humor, I think that you'll enjoy it.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word (http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word)
No joke, I've seen nearly every South Park episode ever made! I haven't seen much of the newest season but I am definitely a fan of SP!
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Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?
You are correct!
If you were to remove all the plastics it is a chore.
The problem is most of the time whatever may go wrong on the road you can get to, or at least see, from under the upper plastics, which I can have off in 5 minutes per side, as most others who have taken them off more than once would be able to do also.
I am hesitant to start pulling engine mount bolts along the side of the road or in parking lots so I am able to pull the plastics to get to a throttle cable end, cruise control cable or whatever else it may be.
The reason for this is when I mounted my highway pegs to the upper engine mount on the left side, the bolt would not start in the threads. The hole was less than a half thread off. I had to place a scissor jack under the engine and put a slight amount of pressure on the engine and the bolt went right in.
One of the tools I do not carry on a IB ride or flower-sniffin ride is a scissor jack, nor do I want to be concerned about the consequences, if for some reason I had to remove the uppers, whether or not I would be able to get that bolt back in.
So no, there is no race to see how fast one can get the plastics or the crash bars off. Just a practical concern of where it is the most inconvenient place something will happen when the time comes that I HAVE to get the bars off. I do not get 15000 miles a year in a 7 month riding season by riding back and forth to work.
If this newly designed unit were similar in design to the R&G unit with the upper engine bolt needing to be removed to get the uppers off, I would pass on them just as I have on the R&G units, simply because it would not meet my needs for what I find necessary for me personally. At that point I would have to bite the bullet and purchase the Top Block units because I feel that strongly about having access to the upper plastics.
John
This is a great thought. Honestly, at first, I was thinking to myself: "Why would anyone really need to get the bars off THAT easily or quickly. Don't they have any patience?" I figured the sacrifice in strength and the added weight wouldn't have been worth it for a quick-release but I was looking into the matter regardless because, frankly, a quick-release would be kind of cool if it worked properly. If a quick-release doesn't end up working, would you be okay with a set of bars that allowed you to maybe loosen the fairings without removing the bars? That way you can at least loosen them to peek around if you really need to. I'm just trying to think of another solution that would serve the purpose your describing if a quick-release ends up being unfeasible.
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Maybe a quick release could be made that had a necked down end on the bar that fit into the end of the mount (portion "permanently" attached to the bike) and the junction held in place by a ball-pin, cotter pin or something similar. The connection would be in a place that's very near the engine or hidden somewhat by the fairing. Since most of your tip-overs would be trying to jam this joint together, it might work.
Hopefully you understand what I'm describing with my having to resort to doing a sketch, LOL. ???
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Maybe a quick release could be made that had a necked down end on the bar that fit into the end of the mount (portion "permanently" attached to the bike) and the junction held in place by a ball-pin, cotter pin or something similar. The connection would be in a place that's very near the engine or hidden somewhat by the fairing. Since most of your tip-overs would be trying to jam this joint together, it might work.
Hopefully you understand what I'm describing with my having to resort to doing a sketch, LOL. ???
I totally understand! In fact, this is very similar to an idea I had on the quick-release issue. In fact, the Canyon Cage we make for the GSXR has a connection similar to this underneath the bike where the bars meet so I know it can be done and that it holds up. Now, all I need is the green light from the guy upstairs and a bike to work on! Actually, a very kind forum member already offered his bike up so as long as I get the go ahead we can start seriously testing out some of these different ideas!
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Actually, a very kind forum member already offered his bike up so as long as I get the go ahead we can start seriously testing out some of these different ideas!
What year bike?
Post a name and a number and I bet we can get a few persuasive people to call upstairs.
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What year bike?
Post a name and a number and I bet we can get a few persuasive people to call upstairs.
I believe it was a 2010.
Hahahahah someone recommended that earlier and I'm sure people harassing the boss man would hurt more than help, unfortunately. I've known the guy for 25 years, talking him into doing stuff he isn't hell-bent on doing himself takes some serious finesse. I'm working on it for you guys, though!
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Removing the fairing is a project, how much more work is it to remove the crash bars, 6 bolts at the most maybe less? The added weight and cost of trying to make quick release crash bars doesn't make sense. How often are people taking their fairings off and why the need to get the crash bars off so fast?
The current set-up, the front right bar, to get it off and on is a balancing act. The plastic has to hang onto the bar while it is being installed. If the this bracket were a two pc design where the upprt mounting points tube was only like 2" long with a solid pin welded in this tube, the remaining bracket can slide onto this pin, have a cross pin to lock it in place and still bolt up at the current lower mounting point. This way, one bolt to remove and one cross pin to pull and it's off. A simular set-up for the left would work too. With a set-up like this, new designs can use the same mounting points on the bike and can have different bar shapes outside of the plastic. Also this set-up should only take 5 min's to take it off or to put it back on once the upper mounting points have been installed.
Ryan, if you would like to know more about how I think that this can be done, I'll gladly discuss it with you.
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The current set-up, the front right bar, to get it off and on is a balancing act. The plastic has to hang onto the bar while it is being installed. If the this bracket were a two pc design where the upprt mounting points tube was only like 2" long with a solid pin welded in this tube, the remaining bracket can slide onto this pin, have a cross pin to lock it in place and still bolt up at the current lower mounting point. This way, one bolt to remove and one cross pin to pull and it's off. A simular set-up for the left would work too. With a set-up like this, new designs can use the same mounting points on the bike and can have different bar shapes outside of the plastic. Also this set-up should only take 5 min's to take it off or to put it back on once the upper mounting points have been installed.
Ryan, if you would like to know more about how I think that this can be done, I'll gladly discuss it with you.
This was actually very similar to what I was thinking as well and I have some ideas as to how I can get it to work too. However, I'm always open to hearing other thoughts and ideas on the matter! Feel free to discuss it here (so others can comment or add ideas) or PM me with more information!
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One thing to keep top of mind in this discussion is that the bars are sacrificial. Meant to be damaged or even destroyed in the event of a crash. Their function is to first protect the rider then the bike. The hard part is making them look good doing it. If they fail in their function do to weak points then form is irrelevant.
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One thing to keep top of mind in this discussion is that the bars are sacrificial. Meant to be damaged or even destroyed in the event of a crash. Their function is to first protect the rider then the bike. The hard part is making them look good doing it. If they fail in their function do to weak points then form is irrelevant.
Exactly this! This is one reason I've strayed away from quick-releases in the past. It just seems like it reduces the strength too much, which then makes the bars pointless. Although, we used a variation of a slip joint on our GSXR Canyon Cage that I believe may come in useful when designing a quick-release mechanism. This is something I'm going to look into more once I get the bike in our facility.
However, it's funny that you mentioned the bars being sacrificial because I was just thinking about this earlier. If we could somehow get a quick-release bar to work, all you'd need to replace in case of an incident is that single outer bar that took the hit. :D The hardware and base mounting plates/equipment would more than likely be okay to reuse, whereas the outside bar would need to be replaced. So, this would at least stop you from having to purchase an entirely new set if you did go down and would help keep repair costs on the low side.
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Some good points for easy removal. Some crash bar systems can be swung down and outta the way by removing just 2 bolts maybe that would be an option. Everything is a compromise easy removal = higher cost and more weight. The main thing is they work and look good, then comes cost. Being able to easily remove these on the roadside isn't as much a concern for me as I'm not putting them on a Harley or a BMW. ;) ;D
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If we could somehow get a quick-release bar to work, all you'd need to replace in case of an incident is that single outer bar that took the hit. :D The hardware and base mounting plates/equipment would more than likely be okay to reuse, whereas the outside bar would need to be replaced. So, this would at least stop you from having to purchase an entirely new set if you did go down and would help keep repair costs on the low side.
Yes! The best of both worlds!
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This is a great thought. Honestly, at first, I was thinking to myself: "Why would anyone really need to get the bars off THAT easily or quickly. Don't they have any patience?" I figured the sacrifice in strength and the added weight wouldn't have been worth it for a quick-release but I was looking into the matter regardless because, frankly, a quick-release would be kind of cool if it worked properly. If a quick-release doesn't end up working, would you be okay with a set of bars that allowed you to maybe loosen the fairings without removing the bars? That way you can at least loosen them to peek around if you really need to. I'm just trying to think of another solution that would serve the purpose your describing if a quick-release ends up being unfeasible.
Ryan, That would be perfect. At least having the option to look behind the uppers would have enough benefit to satisfy myself.
Thank you for the opportunity and taking the time to discuss the concerns of this group as individuals and at least attempting to take it all in for the design of a product that will benefit us. It is a farkle that is sorely lacking and long overdue for this bike form an affordability and functionality standpoint.
My hats off to you :hail:
John
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I am reading this thread with great interest, and looking forward to the product. I appreciate you going to the core customers for input. My primary interest is in tipover protection (e.g., falling over while parked). [If the bike hits the ground while running at speed, I don't expect to have much clean plastic afterwards.] Also, I prefer no drilling.
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Ryan, That would be perfect. At least having the option to look behind the uppers would have enough benefit to satisfy myself.
Thank you for the opportunity and taking the time to discuss the concerns of this group as individuals and at least attempting to take it all in for the design of a product that will benefit us. It is a farkle that is sorely lacking and long overdue for this bike form an affordability and functionality standpoint.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate the kind words, John! I sure hope I can deliver a product that suits the needs of you guys at a decent price while looking good! It's going to take some work but I believe it's doable especially with all the great feedback I've been getting from this forum!
I am reading this thread with great interest, and looking forward to the product. I appreciate you going to the core customers for input. My primary interest is in tipover protection (e.g., falling over while parked). [If the bike hits the ground while running at speed, I don't expect to have much clean plastic afterwards.] Also, I prefer no drilling.
Thanks for your input, Texas!
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Maybe a quick release could be made that had a necked down end on the bar that fit into the end of the mount (portion "permanently" attached to the bike) and the junction held in place by a ball-pin, cotter pin or something similar. The connection would be in a place that's very near the engine or hidden somewhat by the fairing. Since most of your tip-overs would be trying to jam this joint together, it might work.
Hopefully you understand what I'm describing with my having to resort to doing a sketch, LOL. ???
That is an excellent suggestion, and, in fact, something I was thinking about too but never posted. A sort of compromise.
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The current set-up, the front right bar, to get it off and on is a balancing act. The plastic has to hang onto the bar while it is being installed. If the this bracket were a two pc design where the upprt mounting points tube was only like 2" long with a solid pin welded in this tube, the remaining bracket can slide onto this pin, have a cross pin to lock it in place and still bolt up at the current lower mounting point. This way, one bolt to remove and one cross pin to pull and it's off. A simular set-up for the left would work too. With a set-up like this, new designs can use the same mounting points on the bike and can have different bar shapes outside of the plastic. Also this set-up should only take 5 min's to take it off or to put it back on once the upper mounting points have been installed.
Ryan, if you would like to know more about how I think that this can be done, I'll gladly discuss it with you.
If you're talking about the 'bathroom bars', you can cut out the small tab of plastic that runs between the fins and then slide that part of the fairing off without unbolting the guards...
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Do you plan on these for '08-'09 as well a later years?
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HI,RYAN.....
Your products allready prove their value and reliability and strength in my case(hit by a car,sliding for 50 meters!!!)....let's see what you have in mind now!!!..... :chugbeer:
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I'm on my phone so I have a little trouble multi-quoting. Hahahaha
Unfortunately we have to go one bike at a time. Seeing as how the 2010-2012 model is the most current and most popular, we plan on beginning with that bike. If these Canyon Cage bars are as popular as they seem, I'm sure we'll work on getting a 2008-2009 in the shop to fit up as well.
Wow, you were hit by a car, the bike slid 50 meters, and the bars didn't give?! That's pretty amazing, I haven't heard that before. Although, we did have one customer a while back who was riding in the backwoods somewhere and he was t-boned by a deer. He ended up being hospitalized because it knocked him off but apparently our guards help up.
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THE BARS both front and rear BEND and lost metal!!! but save the most of the plastics and my legs...!!
before 2 months i ordered the new ones...i have already installed them..... ;D
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THE BARS both front and rear BEND and lost metal!!! but save the most of the plastics and my legs...!!
before 2 months i ordered the new ones...i have already installed them..... ;D
Wow, that is crazy! I'm glad to hear you're okay though!
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I got a 2012 with 300 miles only. You can borrow it for a week or two . To help you out with the Canyon Cage. I'm in Los Angeles.
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I got a 2012 with 300 miles only. You can borrow it for a week or two . To help you out with the Canyon Cage. I'm in Los Angeles.
Awesome! I actually just got the green light from the owner to go ahead and start this project! Were aiming for a start date of Monday, April 2nd. Do you think that'd be a good day for you to bring your bike in? It should only take us a single work week to get the prototype done so you should be riding again by that weekend!
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Awesome! I actually just got the green light from the owner to go ahead and start this project! Were aiming for a start date of Monday, April 2nd. Do you think that'd be a good day for you to bring your bike in? It should only take us a single work week to get the prototype done so you should be riding again by that weekend!
Fantastic! I can't wait to see what it produced.
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Unfortunately we have to go one bike at a time. Seeing as how the 2010-2012 model is the most current and most popular, we plan on beginning with that bike. If these Canyon Cage bars are as popular as they seem, I'm sure we'll work on getting a 2008-2009 in the shop to fit up as well.
Wow, you were hit by a car, the bike slid 50 meters, and the bars didn't give?! That's pretty amazing, I haven't heard that before. Although, we did have one customer a while back who was riding in the backwoods somewhere and he was t-boned by a deer. He ended up being hospitalized because it knocked him off but apparently our guards help up.
I understand and appreciate what you folks are doing, but you may want to consider that there are probably just as many '08-'09 models on the road and ready for these bars as there are '10-'12 model year bikes.
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Well I guess that solves my dilemma, GSG it is for me. Maybe in the future if it works out.
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I understand and appreciate what you folks are doing, but you may want to consider that there are probably just as many '08-'09 models on the road and ready for these bars as there are '10-'12 model year bikes.
That's definitely possible. We have to start somewhere though and we're somewhat limited by what bikes we have access to as well. So far I've found customers with a 2010 and 2012 Connie who were kind enough to offer up their bikes but I haven't found a 2008-2009 yet.
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That's definitely possible. We have to start somewhere though and we're somewhat limited by what bikes we have access to as well. So far I've found customers with a 2010 and 2012 Connie who were kind enough to offer up their bikes but I haven't found a 2008-2009 yet.
If you were in Colorado you could use mine...
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That's definitely possible. We have to start somewhere though and we're somewhat limited by what bikes we have access to as well. So far I've found customers with a 2010 and 2012 Connie who were kind enough to offer up their bikes but I haven't found a 2008-2009 yet.
Totally understand that! :(
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Ryan I will call you on Monday March 26. To schedule a time and date to drop her off. Great to hear there is a green light . Can’t wait to see the final product .
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Don't fall into the trap of over capitalising your idea for crashbars.
You may want to ask yourself a few questions along the following lines.
How many of these things do you think you'll sell,how much will they cost to make,how much will they sell for, what is the profit margin,how long will it take to recoup the original investment plus 25% for interest that could have been earned & returns/warranty repairs.
Sometimes compromises must be made and simple things are the best.
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I like the GSXR Canyon Cage better than the R6. It would be easier to mount a set of lights on that GSXR style and possibly an unobtrusive set of highway pegs. Good luck with your design.
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Ryan I will call you on Monday March 26. To schedule a time and date to drop her off. Great to hear there is a green light . Can’t wait to see the final product .
Sounds good!
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Question between the first gen and second gen. The possible mounting points would be the same wouldn't they? Only the shape of the plastic changed?
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Question between the first gen and second gen. The possible mounting points would be the same wouldn't they? Only the shape of the plastic changed?
I am not an expert in this, but I believe you are correct.
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new hope.... :)
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So....if Ryan gets the '10 up done one uf us intrepid '8 and '9ers guinea pig?
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So....if Ryan gets the '10 up done one uf us intrepid '8 and '9ers guinea pig?
I'll volunteer...
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new hope.... :)
I wouldn't get TOO excited. If they are designed to go through an existing fairing opening, that is unlikely to line up...
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Drill baby drill.
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Drill baby drill.
Please don't quote that woman on my thread! :P Hah! Totally kidding!
Anyhow, we're getting a 2012 model in on Tuesday to begin work on the Canyon Cages! Once we get the bike in the shop I'll update this thread frequently with the progress made each day so I can get your guys input and make changes if need be. It'll be much easier to make changes during the design/testing phase than it will once the bar is actually completed.
As far as the mounting points being the same on the 08-09's and 10-12's, I have confirmed this with my tech. Kawasaki ran into some heat issues on the 08-09's and therefore decided to add a heat deflector underneath the fairing as well as slightly modify the fairing itself for the 2010-* models. However, I'm not sure if the bars themselves will be interchangeable. I'm sure you could probably get them to fit but you may have to drill holes in some unsavory places. I suppose these questions will be answered once we get the bike in here, start building the bar, and begin taking some photos for you guys to dissect. Stay tuned!
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Come on guys! Someone with a '08/'09 must be willing to get fitted for these bars?
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I'll volunteer...
Come on guys! Someone with a '08/'09 must be willing to get fitted for these bars?
Looks like Mal did!
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Looks like Mal did!
Oh, sorry. I didn't see that. I was going by Ryan's post #107
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Oh, sorry. I didn't see that. I was going by Ryan's post #107
I did volunteer, but the issue is I'm in Colorado, they're not. But I'd also volunteer to try to fit the finished '10 bars to my '09...
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I did volunteer, but the issue is I'm in Colorado, they're not. But I'd also volunteer to try to fit the finished '10 bars to my '09...
Oh no, once you volunteer it's implied that you'll get your bike to them for fitment. ;)
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Oh no, once you volunteer it's implied that you'll get your bike to them for fitment. ;)
Mal, you're only a mountain or two and maybe a desert away? ;)
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Mal, you're only a mountain or two and maybe a desert away? ;)
It would be a fun road trip!
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One more day! ;D
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One more day! ;D
One more day until what? A prototype?? Pics??? Production???? What?!?!?!!!?!
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Til he gets a bike to look at?
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One more day until what? A prototype?? Pics??? Production???? What?!?!?!!!?!
One more day until we get a bike in to begin working on! Well, the day has arrived. The fine gentleman who allowed us to borrow his bike should be arriving sometime this morning. We will probably begin preliminary design this afternoon so I may have some photos of a rough, tack welded prototype for you as early as sometime tomorrow. It all depends on how quickly we get this bike done. I believe the guy is allowing us to keep the bike for two weeks so we may take our time on this build as we have a bunch of other stuff going on as well. I'll definitely keep you guys updated and post pics when I have something worthy to post!
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Question for those of you following this thread: How important is the incorporation of a polyethylene (delrin) bumper?
Armando (our in-house Tech) and I have come up with a really nifty preliminary design that would allow for the bars to be "quick-released" to allow easier access to the fairing. It's not quite a cotter pin design but you'd only have to undo two external bolts per side to remove the bars; less than a 2 minute job per side. The great thing about this design is it would also allow for easy incorporation of an optional polyethylene bumper. Oh, and this design does not require drilling as of yet! We're really banging on all cylinders here today. I'll post some pictures once I have a bar bent and tack welded in place!
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Question for those of you following this thread: How important is the incorporation of a polyethylene (delrin) bumper?
Armando (our in-house Tech) and I have come up with a really nifty preliminary design that would allow for the bars to be "quick-released" to allow easier access to the fairing. It's not quite a cotter pin design but you'd only have to undo two external bolts per side to remove the bars; less than a 2 minute job per side. The great thing about this design is it would also allow for easy incorporation of an optional polyethylene bumper. Oh, and this design does not require drilling as of yet! We're really banging on all cylinders here today. I'll post some pictures once I have a bar bent and tack welded in place!
I really like the idea of a replaceable bumper. If the bike is dropped or knocked over in a parking-lot, I think the ability to replace a scratched up puck is more desirable than painting or replacing a bar. I received my rear guards yesterday and I was talking to another member about putting a bumper on it. I was thinking of attaching it with a hose clamp of some sort, or maybe the plastic wraps around the bar and basically snaps on covering several inches of an impact area. MCE could design and sell these pieces to go with the guards, as well as sell them separately.
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I really like the idea of a replaceable bumper. If the bike is dropped or knocked over in a parking-lot, I think the ability to replace a scratched up puck is more desirable than painting or replacing a bar.
Precisely what I was thinking! This will also help keep repair costs on the low side. Once the bar is tacked and bent properly I'll take some photos so you guys can see what I'm talking about.
I see what you're saying about mounting similar types of bumpers on the rear but I don't know if it'd be as easy as you're making it sound. What we're looking at for the front is something like this:http://www.budwig.com/round-polyethylene-feet.html (http://www.budwig.com/round-polyethylene-feet.html). These would easily attach to an external bolt location that we've worked into the design of the bar itself so it looks like it belongs there, it's not just some plastic piece randomly hanging off the bar. The incorporation of these tips isn't for sure yet though. I'm still trying to locate the correct size we need but I think it'd be a great addition to the bar if we could make it work.
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I see what you're saying about mounting similar types of bumpers on the rear but I don't know if it'd be as easy as you're making it sound.
The more I think about this the easier it gets. ;D Once the design is agreed upon send the new canyon cage along with a rear guard to a company that works with polyethlene. I would think they could design a cast, for lack of a better term, then cut a slot out of the back so it would snap tightly on the bar. Just a thought.
I do like the puck type as they would protect more in a slide situation, but it is also an ugly black thing sticking off the side of my bike.
Let's get some other guys to voice their opinions. I can always agree to disagree. :P
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I received my rear guards yesterday and I was talking to another member about putting a bumper on it. I was thinking of attaching it with a hose clamp of some sort, or maybe the plastic wraps around the bar and basically snaps on covering several inches of an impact area. MCE could design and sell these pieces to go with the guards, as well as sell them separately.
Really? Boy, I don't know. Those rear guards ain't gonna win any beauty contests as they are let alone with some hose clamped bumpers added. Know wut I mean Vern? :o
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Those rear guards ain't gonna win any beauty contests as they are let alone with some hose clamped bumpers added. Know wut I mean Vern? :o
I hear ya Conrad, but a small plastic sleeve would be cheaper to replace than buying new guards.
You do realize how mechanically inept Jay is don't you. He is not the best guy for me to be bouncing design ideas off of in the first place. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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You do realize how mechanically inept Jay is don't you. He is not the best guy for me to be bouncing design ideas off of in the first place. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kdfkjfew.gif)
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I hear ya Conrad, but a small plastic sleeve would be cheaper to replace than buying new guards.
I don't mean this the wrong way but I kinda see this as another expensive piece to replace in the case of an accident. Sure, it may protect the bars from minor dings and scratches but if you go down, you have to worry about the bar bending moreso than minor scratches. The cost of polyoxymethylene isn't cheap, either. There's a reason generic frame sliders are $50+. You could bet your buns a custom molded delrin cover would run you probably close to $100-$125 at the low end. You're better off just replacing the entire one side for $87.50 (the price we charge for a single side replacement of the small rear guards).
The good thing about the bumpers we're considering for the Canyon Cage is they can be easily removed in minutes or less for those of you who don't like the look of 'em.
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I hear ya Conrad, but a small plastic sleeve would be cheaper to replace than buying new guards.
You do realize how mechanically inept Jay is don't you. He is not the best guy for me to be bouncing design ideas off of in the first place. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
I know what you mean man, poor J. I'm thinking that he's had something bounced off of him once too many times. :-X
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(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kdfkjfew.gif)
Holy crap J!!!! I hope like hell that the beer glass was empty? No reason to waste good beer like that!!!
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I'll pipe down now and wait for pictures.
:popcorn:
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http://catalog.fluoropolymerproducts.com/viewitems/ptfe-and-teflon-sheet/ptfe-and-teflon-sheet-2 (http://catalog.fluoropolymerproducts.com/viewitems/ptfe-and-teflon-sheet/ptfe-and-teflon-sheet-2)
How about something along these lines? Cut to fit, apply some heat, and glue in place. The idea is protection for a tip over, right?
I had heard that black bikes are more prone to the effects of gravity ;)
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I hear ya Conrad, but a small plastic sleeve would be cheaper to replace than buying new guards.
You do realize how mechanically inept Jay is don't you. He is not the best guy for me to be bouncing design ideas off of in the first place. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
I know what you mean man, poor J. I'm thinking that he's had something bounced off of him once too many times. :-X
I'll pipe down now and wait for pictures.
:popcorn:
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/crazy1.gif)
:battle: (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/mad.gif) (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/Bitchslap6.gif)
You guys are just halarious aren't ya!!
I can't help it if I don't want grease under my nails and want to keep my hands silky smooth for the ladies... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif) ;D ;D ;D
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You guys are just halarious aren't ya!!
I can't help it if I don't want grease under my nails and want to keep my hands silky smooth for the ladies... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_dunno.gif) ;D ;D ;D
Oh, I see how it is now Mr Soft Hands. :-*
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... What we're looking at for the front is something like this:http://www.budwig.com/round-polyethylene-feet.html (http://www.budwig.com/round-polyethylene-feet.html). These would easily attach to an external bolt location that we've worked into the design of the bar itself so it looks like it belongs there, it's not just some plastic piece randomly hanging off the bar. ...
I think you're thought process is sound (from my perspective). NOT having pucks would not prevent me from buying a product, but having pucks that look odd WOULD prevent me from buying a product, if that makes sense.
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I think you're thought process is sound (from my perspective). NOT having pucks would not prevent me from buying a product, but having pucks that look odd WOULD prevent me from buying a product, if that makes sense.
That makes total sense! You'd rather have it there but only if it looks good. If it looks funky or out-of-place, it's better to just leave it out.
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I think the "concept" of a hard plastic type piece that could be replaced in the event of a tip-over and also provide a little more of a cushion for a softer landing that LivnLoud was trying to describe came from him and I talking yesterday and I was pointing out that on the Top-Block sliders the pieces that would actually hit the ground if you went over are a hard plastic, and that if those got dinged/chewed up in a tip-over you can just replace those plastics (sold individually by Top-Block) instead of replacing the entire metal arm...
Does that make more sense?
See pic below of the plastic pieces I'm referring to used in the Top-Block sliders and see the drawing attached to see how that plastic piece goes over top of the actuall metal bar...
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00182-20110401-1710.jpg)
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I understand what he was getting at and we're attempting to incorporate something similar for the Canyon Cages with the addition of that delrin stopper. I just don't see it being financially viable for the small rears as a custom piece like that would cost us quite a bit to have molded and made and would probably run $85-$125 to the end customer. If the plastic piece is nearly $100 to replace anyway, why not just replace the entire small rear bar for the $87.50 we currently charge?
Any idea how much TopBlock charges to replace just the plastic piece? If the set is nearly $700 you can bet it's a pretty penny to replace just the plastic piece. Keep in mind, although it looks like it, this stuff is not just your generic cheap plastic. It's, more than likely, some type of polyethylene or polyoxyethylene which can be very pricey.
It's a great idea in theory and I could see how it works for TopBlock (because that piece is the bulk of their bar) but for our application, I just don't think it's necessary.
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Any idea how much TopBlock charges to replace just the plastic piece? If the set is nearly $700 you can bet it's a pretty penny to replace just the plastic piece.
$85 per (+ shipping from France of course), so call it about a hundred bucks per plastic piece. But I tell you what it beats the hell out of buying another entire set for $700...
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Will the new bars fit both of the C14 generations or just the second?
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$85 per (+ shipping from France of course), so call it about a hundred bucks per plastic piece. But I tell you what it beats the hell out of buying another entire set for $700...
Oh, I totally agree. $85 repair > $700 repair.
That's why it doesn't make much sense for our specific application, though. The cost to replace a single side of our small rears is only $87.50 so it's worth it to just replace the entire thing if the bar is damaged. However, on the Canyon Cage, it'd be nice to only have the plastic stopper piece to replace in a tip-over. Although, with the way we have the bar designed now (you'll see what I mean when I get some photos), we've really minimized the amount of stuff that needs to be replaced in case of a tip-over, even if the bar gets thrashed. The bar is sort of segmented to allow for "quick-release" and to help keep repair costs low.
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Will the new bars fit both of the C14 generations or just the second?
Well, we're not drilling into the fairing and we're using generic mounting points so I'm hoping they'll fit both generations but there's no way to know for sure until we finish the bar and find a guinea pig. Anyone with a 2008-2009 want to test it out for us? If you're interested in testing the Canyon Cage PM me and I can go through our guinea pig details. It's not as easy as us sending you a set and just tossing them on so I'd really prefer someone who is methodical and has a working knowledge of basic mechanics.
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Here are the first couple photos I have of the prototype! I'm not a huge fan of the 90 degree angle the bar makes before it goes through the bike but it's something we're still tinkering around with. That 90 degree angle spot is there for a few reasons though: It allows for the bar to be taken off really quickly and easily and it's a great spot to mount those optional delrin tips.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Connie1.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Connie3.jpg)
So far, there are two mounting points on each side of the bike with a bar that connects the two halves underneath the bike. We're looking at adding another bar that goes back towards the rider similar to our GSXR Canyon Cage shown here:
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/SUZGSXR002.jpg)
I'll post more pics when we get the other bar bent and tacked into place. I think it'll help pull the look of the bars together a little bit. Let me know your guys opinions, though! This is the best time to voice your concerns because we can easily make changes at this stage of the game!
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It looks good so far Ryan. How do you determine how much protection your bars give the bike in a drop? I assume the new bars are being designed to work with the small rear set?
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I like what I am seeing here Ryan, John :chugbeer:
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Good progress for one day. Be interesting to see where the bar going towards the back is going to mount.
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I think that looks great, hoping someone with an 08/09 will be able to assist.
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It looks good so far Ryan. How do you determine how much protection your bars give the bike in a drop? I assume the new bars are being designed to work with the small rear set?
Thanks! Honestly, there's no set formula for determining the level of protection the bars are going to give the bike in a real world drop situation. The guys we have here working on the bars have been doing so for years so usually we just all crowd around, brainstorm, build, and test. It's really a sort of "try and check" type of thing. I can tell you, though, that after so many years building these bars we have a damn good idea of where the bikes hit and what sections need protection and what we can overlook.
To answer your second question: These Canyon Cages could technically be used by themselves but your bags may take a bit of a hit if the bike goes over. Especially because the Canyon Cage is a lot closer to the fairing than the bathroom bars are. The best level of protection is going to be achieved using the front and rear bars in accordance with one another.
Regarding where we're looking to tie in towards the rear, check out the photo below. We're looking to run closely along the fairing and hopefully connect at that large mounting point above the pegs. Please forgive my photoshop skills! The bar isn't going to be as straight as I've photoshopped it but that's the general idea of what we're looking at.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Connie1-1.jpg)
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Question for those of you following this thread: How important is the incorporation of a polyethylene (delrin) bumper?
Armando (our in-house Tech) and I have come up with a really nifty preliminary design that would allow for the bars to be "quick-released" to allow easier access to the fairing. It's not quite a cotter pin design but you'd only have to undo two external bolts per side to remove the bars; less than a 2 minute job per side. The great thing about this design is it would also allow for easy incorporation of an optional polyethylene bumper. Oh, and this design does not require drilling as of yet! We're really banging on all cylinders here today. I'll post some pictures once I have a bar bent and tack welded in place!
If the polyethylene bumper hid a set of flip out highway pegs, they would be extremely important...
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Got a few more photos for you guys so you can get an idea of where we're looking to attach the bar...
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Connie4.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Connie5.jpg)
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Got a few more photos for you guys so you can get an idea of where we're looking to attach the bar...
Sweet! I really like the horizontal bar better than the bent line you drew...
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I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy these as soon as they are available. 8)
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They look awesome. Please make them fit the 08-09 also.
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Ryan, is the OD" of the pipe the same as on the small rears?
Are you going to be able to color match our paint as an option maybe?
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Wow! Ryan, I am really impressed so far. Especially if they can be easily removed for maintenance work. As long as they are 100% protection from a static or extremely low speed tip-over. As for the plastic "bumper", even with your photos, it is currently hard to tell if that would look OK or not. If it were extremely flush, I bet it would work. If it sticks out, I think it will look freaky.
One question- would it even need the rear horizontal section? Could just the front loop be enough? You don't need a back section on your normal bathroom bars.... Maybe two versions?
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Got a few more photos for you guys so you can get an idea of where we're looking to attach the bar...
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Connie4.jpg)
Looks like the top may work but bottom would require drilling, hard to tell from photos.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/2007electraroad/03.jpg)
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Nice progress Ryan and good choice of color for the tape, that Kawi green goes nice on the black... 8)
Here's my only concern, how the heck are you gonna convince anyone to buy the original bathroom bars once these are available! :o ;)
Keep up the good work bro! :chugbeer:
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Looks like the top may work but bottom would require drilling, hard to tell from photos.
Translation for those who were initially confused by his posting, like I was...
"Looks like trying these on the 2008/2009, the top may work but bottom would require drilling; here is a pic of the 1st gen C-14 for a comparison"
:)
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Nice progress Ryan and good choice of color for the tape, that Kawi green goes nice on the black... 8)
Here's my only concern, how the heck are you gonna convince anyone to buy the original bathroom bars once these are available! :o ;)
Keep up the good work bro! :chugbeer:
Hahahaha! Thanks! Y'know, I have a feeling the other style will still be popular with a small percentage of civilians along with a bunch of people from the law enforcement community. Although, I hope this style is more popular among normal riders (as opposed to law enforcement) because we're designing them specifically for you guys as opposed to the other bars which were designed for cops!
Sweet! I really like the horizontal bar better than the bent line you drew...
Hahahah yea, that was just a rough thing I threw together quickly. I bent the line to show how the bar would bend with the fairing of the bike. I definitely think the actual bar in place looks a lot better as well, though!
I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy these as soon as they are available. 8)
As soon as the prototype is done I'm probably going to organize a new group buy specifically for the Canyon Cages. That way we can get orders together while the bars are going through their first major production run and I can hopefully save you guys a little cash!
Ryan, is the OD" of the pipe the same as on the small rears?
Are you going to be able to color match our paint as an option maybe?
Yes, the OD is the same as the small rears so they'll go together really well. I doubt we're going to do matching paint, though. We'll probably stick to offering the bar in chrome and matte black. Honestly, though, I really like the look of chrome on this lower profile bar. Since these bars aren't as bulky, being chrome helps bring out the chrome "Kawasaki" and "Concours14" tags on the bike. I have a feeling the matte black will still be most popular though.
One question- would it even need the rear horizontal section? Could just the front loop be enough? You don't need a back section on your normal bathroom bars.... Maybe two versions?
The bar would probably perform fine without the rear horizontal section but that horizontal bar really helps strengthen the entire set up so I'd like to keep it there if possible. The reason we don't use the back section on the bathroom bars is because the mounting plates under the fairings are quite a bit beefier and don't require that additional support.
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They look awesome. Please make them fit the 08-09 also.
Thanks! Honestly I think the only way to make a bar that would fit both generations right off the bat would be to have both bikes in the shop simultaneously and design a bar that fits on both. I'm hoping this same bar will work for the 2008-2009 with minor modifications, though. However, if this bar ends up being as popular as I think it is, we may just make another version for the '08-'09s that don't require drilling if we can find someone to loan us one!
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Translation for those who were initially confused by his posting, like I was...
"Looks like trying these on the 2008/2009, the top may work but bottom would require drilling; here is a pic of the 1st gen C-14 for a comparison"
:)
What he said..tks
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Hmmm... Part of me likes the horizontal back bar, part of me prefers something that attempts to parallel the fins, at least until it rounds the corner to the mount location above the brake.
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Hmmm... Part of me likes the horizontal back bar, part of me prefers something that attempts to parallel the fins, at least until it rounds the corner to the mount location above the brake.
We were originally looking at a design for the "horizontal bar" that flowed more with the fins but too many bends tend to weaken the bar. I"ll have a look again though when I get into the office in the morning and see if there's another way to make that bar flow a bit better. Aesthetics are definitely important but it's the gentle balance between looks and funcionality that makes a great product.
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I'm liking what I see, I agree, the "H" bar should be, well, horizontal to the ground. Keep it up and I'll have to return my new Fox Instinct boots. I can always rattle can the bars Silverdammit ;D
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I'm sorry guys, but for my 34" inseam legs, that rear mounting point of the "horizontal" bar is going to cause a knot on my shin that I'm really not willing to live with. I went out and sat on my bike, put my feet up on the pegs, and reached down to where that mounting point is located. I seem to me that I'm going to be banging my shin on it quite a bit. :'(
If you do end up using that as the rear mounting location, couldn't you still connect the front end of the horizontal bar to the bottom (mounting point) of the vertical bar, giving it more of an L-shaped configuration so that the angle of the "horizontal" section better follows the lines of the '10+ bike?
And could we get a pic from the front of the bike so that we can see how far the bars stick out?
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I'm liking what I see, I agree, the "H" bar should be, well, horizontal to the ground. Keep it up and I'll have to return my new Fox Instinct boots. I can always rattle can the bars Silverdammit ;D
+1 on Horizontal for strength.
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I'm sorry guys, but for my 34" inseam legs, that rear mounting point of the "horizontal" bar is going to cause a knot on my shin that I'm really not willing to live with. I went out and sat on my bike, put my feet up on the pegs, and reached down to where that mounting point is located. I seem to me that I'm going to be banging my shin on it quite a bit. :'(
If you do end up using that as the rear mounting location, couldn't you still connect the front end of the horizontal bar to the bottom (mounting point) of the vertical bar, giving it more of an L-shaped configuration so that the angle of the "horizontal" section better follows the lines of the '10+ bike?
And could we get a pic from the front of the bike so that we can see how far the bars stick out?
Good point! I also would like to see the bar that extends rearward attached at the lower point on the vertical bar.
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Can you get a shot of how much fall protection there is? I don't mean actually dropping the bike but putting a piece of plywood up to simulate how these will hit the ground.
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It's probably too late to even consider but I'm going to throw it out there anyway.
The radius is probably too tight but the ell at the bottom might be rounded off.
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I'm sorry guys, but for my 34" inseam legs, that rear mounting point of the "horizontal" bar is going to cause a knot on my shin that I'm really not willing to live with. I went out and sat on my bike, put my feet up on the pegs, and reached down to where that mounting point is located. I seem to me that I'm going to be banging my shin on it quite a bit. :'(
If you do end up using that as the rear mounting location, couldn't you still connect the front end of the horizontal bar to the bottom (mounting point) of the vertical bar, giving it more of an L-shaped configuration so that the angle of the "horizontal" section better follows the lines of the '10+ bike?
And could we get a pic from the front of the bike so that we can see how far the bars stick out?
I think you should actually be fine with the shin issue. My legs aren't quite as long as yours but I'm not even close to hitting the bar when sitting on the bike. The photo may be misleading because the bar doesn't actually extend all the way to that mounting point. We're using a bracket that will allow the bar to be slightly forward from that mounting point so there's actually more room there than is visible in the photos. I'll take some other photos of myself on the bike and the relationship between my shin and the bar once the design is finalized.
Y'know, I originally had planned to connect from that point you're describing so the bar would follow the lines of the bike. Check out my awesome photoshop photo in reply #146, that's how I had originally planned the bar to be. For some reason they had to change it though. I'll talk to Armando this morning and see if there was a technological reason for the change and whether or not we can change it back.
Here's a photo from the front. These bars run really close to the fairing to allow for extreme lean angles a lot of you encounter in various situations.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Connie2-2.jpg)
Keep in mind, this bar extends past the front fairings but does not protrude past the rear saddle bags so they will not be protected in case of a tip-over. Honestly, I don't know of a single set of front fairing guards that will completely protect the bags. Our bathroom bars get close but even they don't completely protect the rear bags. Unfortunately, the optimal amount of protection would be achieved through the use of both a front and rear set of guards.
Can you get a shot of how much fall protection there is? I don't mean actually dropping the bike but putting a piece of plywood up to simulate how these will hit the ground.
That'll be coming once we get the bar completely tacked and bent into place. First we have to finalize the design before we do that sort of testing. We won't be dropping this bike but generally we have 4 or 5 guys lean the bike over to see where the bar will be coming in contact with the ground. I'll be sure to snap photos when we do this for you guys!
It's probably too late to even consider but I'm going to throw it out there anyway.
The radius is probably too tight but the ell at the bottom might be rounded off.
It's never too late! I originally wanted that part rounded off because it looks a bit nicer but in order to have the "quick-release" and the eventual integration of a delrin slider, the bar unfortunately NEEDS to be this way. I was trying to think of another design that would allow for the bar to be taken off quickly, as that seemed to be a big concern amongst you guys, but the current set up is really the best way I could accomplish that.
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Ryan,
From the way the bars looks in the front shot it doesn't look like it's going to protect the plastic down low.
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Ryan,
From the way the bars looks in the front shot it doesn't look like it's going to protect the plastic down low.
That's where the horizontal bar comes in. The Connies tend to hit lower on the fairing a bit farther back than where one might think. You'll see what I mean once we get the design finalized and tilt the bike over. I'll be sure to take pics of this for you guys so you can see where the bar comes in contact with the ground and how much of the bike is really protected.
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I'm sorry guys, but for my 34" inseam legs, that rear mounting point of the "horizontal" bar is going to cause a knot on my shin that I'm really not willing to live with...
If you do end up using that as the rear mounting location, couldn't you still connect the front end of the horizontal bar to the bottom (mounting point) of the vertical bar, giving it more of an L-shaped configuration so that the angle of the "horizontal" section better follows the lines of the '10+ bike?
Here's a photo of the bracket mount we're talking about. This mount moves the bar forward a solid 4" or so, so that should give you quite a bit more clearance. We have a machinist who is 6'1 and we're using him as our guinea pig.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/RearMount.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/RearMount2.jpg)
Also, I think we're going to take your guys' advice and move the horizontal bar to the bottom of the vertical bar. I think the bar definitely looks better this way. Check it out!
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/NewerDesign.jpg)
And, finally, regarding why we decided not to bend the horizontal bar to flow with the vents: We bent and tacked a horizontal bar in place that flowed with the fairings but the first thing that came to us is that bend is going to smash into the fairing if the bike fell over which is precisely what the bars shouldn't do. It's a bit tough to explain but the picture below may help you picture what we're describing. If you look at the photo, the upper part of the horizontal bar where it begins to bend back down (right where Armando's hand is) would be pushed into the fairing in a tip over. The style we have now where the horizontal bar is more straight would hold up much better in a tip over as it's more perpendicular to the ground when the bike is tilted over.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/WhyNoBend.jpg)
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Ok, where is your shop located? I need to come by and "point" as my drawing skills are terrible!! LOL :o
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Ok, where is your shop located? I need to come by and "point" as my drawing skills are terrible!! LOL :o
Oxnard, CA
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Oxnard, CA
Oh well, too far to run over there this afternoon.
It's great that MCE is getting input from those that are riding the Concours and willing to entertain our many suggestions. :chugbeer:
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Ok, where is your shop located? I need to come by and "point" as my drawing skills are terrible!! LOL :o
We're located in Oxnard, CA. However, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to in your post. Do you mean point to the location lower on the vertical bar where we should mount the horizontal bar? I think we've made the change you're describing, though. Here's a photo below of the bar in it's current form:
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/RightSide.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/LeftSide.jpg)
Here's a clearance shot from the top to give you guys an idea of how close these bars are to the fairings...
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/TopView.jpg)
Here's a shot of my sexy legs in relation to where the bar mounts up. Granted, I'm only 5'10 but it looks like you'd need to be, like, 6'8" to hit your knee/shin...
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/KneeClearance2.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/KneeClearance.jpg)
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These are going to be nice, I need tip over protection and just can't see myself spending the $$$ some of those products cost. This is going to be a streamlined and hopefully cost effective solution. Looks like there is plenty of area to add some highway pegs if you want too!
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This is going to be a streamlined and hopefully cost effective solution.
We hope so too! Based on pricing of some of our similar products, you guys can expect these Canyon Cages to be roughly $250 or so which is relatively affordable compared to some other companies' products.
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We hope so too! Based on pricing of some of our similar products, you guys can expect these Canyon Cages to be roughly $250 or so which is relatively affordable compared to some other companies' products.
Hmmm, maybe I had better see if I can unload my GSG sliders ASAP!
Lookin good Ryan! (the bars, not your legs ;D )
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Lookin good Ryan! (the bars, not your legs ;D )
LOL!
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There's still just something with that horizonal bar that I don't like. I know that you can't please everyone.
How would it be if the 2-4" or so if the horizonal pipe closest to the vertical bar was bent down to the lower mounting point? A small gussit could be placed in that corner as well and the gussit could have a hole in it to mount a slider or something? Just thinking out loud as I do remember you saying that if the bar was mounted on an angle there would be a bending issue.
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How would it be if the 2-4" or so if the horizonal pipe closest to the vertical bar was bent down to the lower mounting point? A small gussit could be placed in that corner as well and the gussit could have a hole in it to mount a slider or something? Just thinking out loud as I do remember you saying that if the bar was mounted on an angle there would be a bending issue.
This is a good idea! I know precisely what you mean, too. I'll talk with Armando and see if it's a change we can make. For some reason, though, I'm thinking there was a technical reason why we couldn't affix that horizontal bar to the vertical one at that lower mounting point because that's where I originally wanted the bars to meet. I'll discuss this with Armando and get back to you.
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Looking good to me. Did I say I really want these for my 09? :D
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Looking good to me. Did I say I really want these for my 09? :D
Hahahah I believe you mentioned that. :P I really hope these work for an '08-'09 but if they don't, I really hope we can find a bike to fit up because I have a feeling these bars are going to be popular!
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There's still just something with that horizonal bar that I don't like. I know that you can't please everyone.
You can say that again, because I really like the horizontal bar, especially if they can incorporate some swing-out foot pegs that hide under the horizontal section...
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You can say that again, because I really like the horizontal bar, especially if they can incorporate some swing-out foot pegs that hide under the horizontal section...
That would really be a nice set up.
Looks great so far.
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Ryan, what diameter tube is that you are working with?
Just thinking that a clamp on style peg assembly will work if a built in does not work out.
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Ryan, what diameter tube is that you are working with?
Just thinking that a clamp on style peg assembly will work if a built in does not work out.
The bar we're using is 7/8" to match the small rear bars we make for the 2010-2012 Connies.
I really don't want this to come off the wrong way but I am against highway pegs on a bike like this, personally. I know that's just one mans opinion but highway pegs just don't belong on a sporty type of bike in my opinion. It has to do with the body position of the rider; the Connie is a sporty style bike and thus the rider has a forward-leaning body angle. Highway pegs are counter-productive to this design. Putting your feet up causes the rider to lean back when you should really be leaning forward. Having said that, I understand that some people may want highway pegs (although it's a relatively small niche) in which case those people can simply clamp on a pair of aftermarket pegs. I really can't see us creating a "built-in" set of highway pegs for this bar. It would add quite a bit to the cost of the bars ($40-$50) while taking away from the smooth aesthetics for those of you who don't like the highway pegs. Sorry, man, I think this is one of those situations where I have to pick my battles. :-\
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I really don't want this to come off the wrong way but I am against highway pegs on a bike like this, personally. I know that's just one mans opinion but highway pegs just don't belong on a sporty type of bike in my opinion. It has to do with the body position of the rider; the Connie is a sporty style bike and thus the rider has a forward-leaning body angle. Highway pegs are counter-productive to this design. Putting your feet up causes the rider to lean back when you should really be leaning forward.
:goodpost:
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Ryan, I said this before, but I will say it again and in more detail:
1) We *really* appreciate your company listening to us. I think you will end up with a fantastic design this way that is very desirable.
2) We LOVE all these photos and details as you go. It really helps to see what you are talking about and get a feel for the design process, which is both informative and fun.
3) I have a feeling I *must* have these things ASAP :)
More feedback:
* I agree that having built-in highway pegs are probably not the best idea from a market and pricing perspective. I do understand the need for them, though... I am one of those people that will want them. I am not sure I need something as dramatic as way out and up there on those bars, though... so I am still looking at Ronnie Agostini's design for just an alternative foot placement.
* I still like the idea of a slider knob. But I will stress again that I think it needs to be NEARLY FLUSH, or it is going to look strange!
* I think the quick release is especially important in this design. Having to remove a complex THREE POINT crash bar will be a pain when just trying to change a turn signal bulb (which is already a pain with all the fairings). I don't think you have elaborated on just how your proposed quick release will work...
* I still wish there were an option for the no-rear arm bar. I know you said it might not be strong enough, but I am not looking for protection at 25, 35, or 75 MPH, just dead stop or < 5MPH tip over protection. Isn't that what most of us are looking for? The GSG and other sliders are just one point. The Top Block are two point. Are you sure the two point mount is off the table/impractical? Could there be two versions?
* If it must have a rear arm I tend to think the center tie-in looks cooler, for some reason that I cannot say, compared to the lower tie-in. Again, I know that strength is important, but hey- we are trying to get something much nicer looking, afterall! If it works either way, a poll on the forum of what people think might be useful for that design element.
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In my brain I see something like this (with the puck somewhere in the triangle area)...
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Ryan, I said this before, but I will say it again and in more detail:
1) We *really* appreciate your company listening to us.
+10000000
* I still wish there were an option for the no-rear arm bar.
Could the vertical bar have a just a boss at it's lowest point that the bolt goes thru. Then a thick washer on both sides of this boss, then another boss between all of this and where the bolt threads into the frame/engine. This configuration is for when the rear horizonal bar is not being used. Now have the rear bar with a clevis section on the end that attaches to the vertical bar. Now if the two thick washers were removed, the clevis can fill the spaces where the washers were. This would give the end user the choice of how they want to have the bars configured.
Just a thought.
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In my brain I see something like this (with the puck somewhere in the triangle area)...
Hmmm, that's a very interesting concept based on our initial design it looks like where the horizontal bar meets the vertical bar more towards the middle. I'll talk to Armando tomorrow and see if we can try that on the bike and see what it looks like. It doesn't take us very long to get things bent and tacked into place.
Ryan, I said this before, but I will say it again and in more detail:
1) We *really* appreciate your company listening to us. I think you will end up with a fantastic design this way that is very desirable.
2) We LOVE all these photos and details as you go. It really helps to see what you are talking about and get a feel for the design process, which is both informative and fun.
3) I have a feeling I *must* have these things ASAP :)
More feedback:
* I agree that having built-in highway pegs are probably not the best idea from a market and pricing perspective. I do understand the need for them, though... I am one of those people that will want them. I am not sure I need something as dramatic as way out and up there on those bars, though... so I am still looking at Ronnie Agostini's design for just an alternative foot placement.
* I still like the idea of a slider knob. But I will stress again that I think it needs to be NEARLY FLUSH, or it is going to look strange!
* I think the quick release is especially important in this design. Having to remove a complex THREE POINT crash bar will be a pain when just trying to change a turn signal bulb (which is already a pain with all the fairings). I don't think you have elaborated on just how your proposed quick release will work...
* I still wish there were an option for the no-rear arm bar. I know you said it might not be strong enough, but I am not looking for protection at 25, 35, or 75 MPH, just dead stop or < 5MPH tip over protection. Isn't that what most of us are looking for? The GSG and other sliders are just one point. The Top Block are two point. Are you sure the two point mount is off the table/impractical? Could there be two versions?
* If it must have a rear arm I tend to think the center tie-in looks cooler, for some reason that I cannot say, compared to the lower tie-in. Again, I know that strength is important, but hey- we are trying to get something much nicer looking, afterall! If it works either way, a poll on the forum of what people think might be useful for that design element.
Thank you very much! I really appreciate that and you guys are all very welcome! I honestly don't know why we haven't done things this way in the past. Like you, I truly believe the collaboration of all our minds together is going to yield an awesome product that functions well and looks great doing it without any unnecessary crap.
Yea, I saw that solution for a slightly higher place to put your feet above the stock pegs and that looked great! I just have a feeling highway pegs farther forward on the bike (like where they'd need to be mounted on our bar) would create a funky and unintended riding position.
Yea, we're still toying with the idea of the slider knob. At the most it'd stick out only 2". Honestly, right now it's a matter of supply. I'm having a hard time finding a vendor that sells the proper size we'd need. I found some great ones from McMaster-Carr that are polyethylene but they're just too damn small (http://www.mcmaster.com/#recessed-bumpers/=gyrf3l (http://www.mcmaster.com/#recessed-bumpers/=gyrf3l)). I was talking to Armando about boring out the hole for the 10mm mount bolt but the bumpers' funky shape may be an issue. If anyone can find a supplier of delrin or polyethylene "recessed bumpers" please let me know. They have to be roughly 2-2.5" in diameter, ~1.5" tall, and be able to accommodate a 10mm round bolt. The only other idea I could come up with would be to incorporate a different type of bumper but I'll have to look into them more tomorrow at work.
The current design we have now isn't necessarily quick-release per se but it really doesn't take long to remove each side. When I hear quick-release I generally think of cotter pin style designs. I'll elaborate more on our design tomorrow for you when I can take some pictures to go along with my explanation but as it is, you only have to remove 3 easily-accessible bolts for each side. Taking off one side is literally a 2-3 minute job with the right socket wrench handy.
Unfortunately the rear horizontal bar is necessary not only because of the added strength but also because of how the bike goes over. If the current design didn't have that horizontal bar extending back, the lower part of the fairing closer to the foot would be smashed before the bar hit the ground merely due to how the bike falls over. If you notice where the GSGs mount, it's much further back on the bike than where the vertical bar on our cage is. The rear part of the GSGs almost mount to where the rear part of our bar mounts, just slightly lower on the bike.
Yea, I'm still debating on the center tie-in or the lower tie-in. I'm honestly preferable to both. I really like RBX QB's variation on our earlier bar which was the center tie-in design. What do you think of that style he posted, maxtog? I'll have RBX's design worked up tomorrow so we can see what it looks like on the bike. I dig how it looks in the photo, though.
What does everyone else think? Do you guys prefer the lower tie-in or the center tie-in?
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Could the vertical bar have a just a boss at it's lowest point that the bolt goes thru. Then a thick washer on both sides of this boss, then another boss between all of this and where the bolt threads into the frame/engine. This configuration is for when the rear horizonal bar is not being used. Now have the rear bar with a clevis section on the end that attaches to the vertical bar. Now if the two thick washers were removed, the clevis can fill the spaces where the washers were. This would give the end user the choice of how they want to have the bars configured.
I think it'd be cool if the end user could have a choice of how they have the bar configured but I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you mean in this post. It sounds like it'd be reaaally pricy, though. When you think about it, too, the entire bar is never really being used either until you fall over...
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Delrin is pricey isn't it. Don't know these folks but it seems they make delrin suspension bushings. Could be they would job lot bumpers to your spec.
http://www.paeco.com/index.htm (http://www.paeco.com/index.htm)
http://www.paeco.com/Delrin%20Bushings.htm (http://www.paeco.com/Delrin%20Bushings.htm)
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The bar we're using is 7/8" to match the small rear bars we make for the 2010-2012 Connies.
I really don't want this to come off the wrong way but I am against highway pegs on a bike like this, personally. I know that's just one mans opinion but highway pegs just don't belong on a sporty type of bike in my opinion. It has to do with the body position of the rider; the Connie is a sporty style bike and thus the rider has a forward-leaning body angle. Highway pegs are counter-productive to this design. Putting your feet up causes the rider to lean back when you should really be leaning forward. Having said that, I understand that some people may want highway pegs (although it's a relatively small niche) in which case those people can simply clamp on a pair of aftermarket pegs. I really can't see us creating a "built-in" set of highway pegs for this bar. It would add quite a bit to the cost of the bars ($40-$50) while taking away from the smooth aesthetics for those of you who don't like the highway pegs. Sorry, man, I think this is one of those situations where I have to pick my battles. :-\
If you want to be picky about aesthetics, hard bags and top cases don't belong on a sporty type bike either. The Connie is not just a sporty bike, it's also a touring bike, hence the hard bags and top cases. After 400 miles it's nice to have an alternate place to put your feet. The main reason I wanted fold-aways like the ones on the beemer is because then you can maintain the aesthetics when you don't need them. To each his own...
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Yea, we're still toying with the idea of the slider knob. At the most it'd stick out only 2".
Ug... I fear at 2" it will look horrible. Maybe 1/2" I could swallow. I know this is difficult.
The current design we have now isn't necessarily quick-release [...] I'll elaborate more on our design tomorrow for you
Great
Yea, I'm still debating on the center tie-in or the lower tie-in. I'm honestly preferable to both. I really like RBX QB's variation on our earlier bar which was the center tie-in design. What do you think of that style he posted, maxtog? I'll have RBX's design worked up tomorrow so we can see what it looks like on the bike. I dig how it looks in the photo, though.
There are lots of possibilities. Unfortunately, just like paint colors, it is really hard for me to visualize things without seeing them "for real" at different angles and distances. I think RBX's looks interesting too, although it is going from minimal to being more visible. Of course, a "Y" is not a bad idea. What if the vertical bar disappeared completely and left you with just a "Y", like I GIMPED below? You could still put a slider on the front bottom of the "Y". Not sure about the strength with the triple welding/join, but it is an interesting design statement, no? :) Or maybe a "Y" that the bottom part is at the same angle as the air outlets, and the horizontal part is more level, like the second picture, below? Or maybe an aggressive-looking "peak", with the rear bar connecting at the top, like the third picture? Hmm
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Like he said get some aftermarket pegs , or maybe make two versions, I know I don't want pegs. I LIKE the look of the bike WITH the side bags, Kaw did a great job with the looks . I'm not a real touring kind of guy ,(I don't feel safe at 80 mph with cars that don't see me all around) that is what I bought a conversion van for, Diesel pickup for work and Mom has her Buick.
They look GREAT Ryan
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There are two schools of thought when it comes to this bike.
There are the guys that put on 2" risers for more upright seating, huge windshields, top boxes, and in some cases, bathroom bars. They're the sport/TOURING crowd. They're the ones that want highway pegs.
The others are the guys that are talking about burning up 190-55 rear tires in 3,000 miles, dragging pegs, etc. and lean towards the SPORT/touring side. These guys want sleek tip-over protection and wouldn't be caught dead with highway pegs.
I just think it's cool that there is a bike that can fit both "factions".
Back on topic:
For tip over protection ONLY, what about having JUST the horizontal bar?
Personally, I'd like to see the rear mounting bracket rotated clockwise (on the left side bar) so that the rear mounting point were higher and then put the forward end of the "horizontal" bar lower so that the bar follows the line of the fairing. Not following the lines of the bike well is what turns me off with the look of the Top Block protection for the '10+ models.
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For tip over protection ONLY, what about having JUST the horizontal bar?
Thanks- I was going to mention that option, too and forgot.
Also, I know it was mentioned before, sorta, but, if the configuration is "too strong" and transmitted too much shock/energy, couldn't that cause SEVERE damage to the engine block where it is mounted? I mean, yes we want to protect the fairings and mirrors, but think of what could happen in a higher energy impact with no fairings and other stuff to absorb the energy.
So much to consider.
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Thanks- I was going to mention that option, too and forgot.
Also, I know it was mentioned before, sorta, but, if the configuration is "too strong" and transmitted too much shock/energy, couldn't that cause SEVERE damage to the engine block where it is mounted? I mean, yes we want to protect the fairings and mirrors, but think of what could happen in a higher energy impact with no fairings and other stuff to absorb the energy.
So much to consider.
That's why I mentioned it. Low speed or garage drop, just the horizontal bar "should" be enough. Higher speed you're going to tear up a lot of stuff anyway, so why be so worried about the lower fairing. At higher speed you're going to have the bags, mirrors, etc all dragging anyway.
I know, I know. I'm all over the place with this!
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If you want to be picky about aesthetics, hard bags and top cases don't belong on a sporty type bike either. The Connie is not just a sporty bike, it's also a touring bike, hence the hard bags and top cases. After 400 miles it's nice to have an alternate place to put your feet. The main reason I wanted fold-aways like the ones on the beemer is because then you can maintain the aesthetics when you don't need them. To each his own...
I agree 100%
I find it extremely difficult to ride form fuel stop to fuel stop for 4 hours straight with your feet/legs in 1 position for 24 hours straight. Because that's what it takes to pull off a BBG or any of the other "extreme" rides of the IBA.
Some see this bike as a "sport bike" with bags and - a driveshaft - and an electric windshield - and heated grips - and a glove box - and taller handle bars - and.........................
I see this bike and have it set up as the ultimate long distance/touring bike. Complete with 3 gps units, spot satellite tracker, aux fuel tank, rostra cruise control, handle bar risers and wedges, taller windshield and you guessed it - HIGHWAY PEGS (blasphomy) to stretch out my legs on.
So much for that "sport bike" :o
John
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It seems I hit a nerve with the highway peg issue and I apologize if I pissed anyone off. That definitely was not my intention! When I say it's a "sporty" type of touring bike, though, I mean the inherent riding position Kawasaki intended the rider to be in while riding the bike. Putting your feet up while your body is in this position would cramp your knees just as much as keeping your feet on the pegs, depending on where the pegs were located, unless the bars were way out wide. I don't really want to get into a massive debate about it because there can be no winner and I don't want to offend or **** anyone off. It's all preference here, really. I'm not bashing the idea of highway pegs for this bike and I sincerely hope you guys don't take it that way! I understand people like to stretch out their legs on long rides and I appreciate all ideas and design concepts. I just think built-in highway pegs would add too much cost to the bar while taking away from the aesthetics merely to appease a relatively small niche of riders. For those of you who like highway pegs, clamp-ons should do just fine. That way, you can even remove them if you don't happen to be going on some 8 hour adventure.
I've gone into quite a bit of detail on why we can't remove the rear horizontal bar but if you have some specific questions regarding it I'd be happy to answer them. It's a matter of where the bike hits the ground in a tip over (regardless of speed) as well as a strength issue. The fact of the matter is, without that rear horizontal bar, the farther-back, lower part of the fairing is going to get hit which would make any protection the vertical bar alone can offer obsolete. Maybe it'd help you guys picture what I'm saying if I can get some photos of the bike tilted over a bit? We can play with some ideas on how to alter the rear bar but unfortunately it has to stay. :-\
Also, regarding the issue of the shock affecting the engine mounting points. This is another reason for a 3-point cage. The more points of contact with the bike, the more the shock is distributed. That's the main issue people have with single-point frame sliders. In harder spills they tend to bend the mounting point because all the shock is hitting one single point. However, we've never had an issue with this on our other bars so I don't expect it to be much of an issue with these either.
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Ryan, feeling like ya opened Pandoras box yet? At the estimated price I see you selling many sets and that you have taken the time to explore our many ideas and requests will set well with this crowd, with or without an option of pegs, although chrome may be pushing things a bit much ;D Simple and sturdy without looking like a bathroom fixture is my vote and of course, a set for the gen 1 C14s :)
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I've gone into quite a bit of detail on why we can't remove the rear horizontal bar but if you have some specific questions regarding it I'd be happy to answer them.
Fair enough...
Also, regarding the issue of the shock affecting the engine mounting points. This is another reason for a 3-point cage. The more points of contact with the bike, the more the shock is distributed.
Would that be the reason for not having just a horizontal bar? Top Block felt that a single horizontal would work... not saying they are the design goal or that they have some holy-grail insight. Really, just discussing.
You need to address my other pretty pictures, too :)
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although chrome may be pushing things a bit much ;D
+1.... :doublepuke:
Sorry Max... ;)
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Top Block felt that a single horizontal would work... not saying they are the design goal or that they have some holy-grail insight.
:-X
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I see this bike and have it set up as the ultimate long distance/touring bike. Complete with 3 gps units, spot satellite tracker, aux fuel tank, rostra cruise control, handle bar risers and wedges, taller windshield and you guessed it - HIGHWAY PEGS (blasphomy) to stretch out my legs on.
I own a 2011 C14 and love it a lot, but to me an "ultimate long distance/touring bike" this isn't. That's a Goldwing (and I have owned one in the past) or BMW equivalent. The C14's hand-numbing grips take the "ultimate" part out of the equation for me.
I have done a good number of multi-hundred mile days on my C14 in spite of the hand issues.
Hey, Ryan. Thanks for all you've done to include actual C14 riders in your design process. Great job.
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Hey, Ryan. Thanks for all you've done to include actual C14 riders in your design process. Great job.
+1... :thumbs: :goodpost:
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+1.... :doublepuke:
Sorry Max... ;)
Hey- you know those chrome rear McE's look pretty damn good on my silver bike. Admit it....
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Hey- you know those chrome rear McE's look pretty damn good on my silver bike. Admit it....
:-X
You can't make me Max... ;D
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Hey- you know those chrome rear McE's look pretty damn good on my silver bike. Admit it....
Maybe on a slower silver bike, but never on a Silverdammit bike 8)
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Ryan, feeling like ya opened Pandoras box yet? At the estimated price I see you selling many sets and that you have taken the time to explore our many ideas and requests will set well with this crowd, with or without an option of pegs, although chrome may be pushing things a bit much ;D Simple and sturdy without looking like a bathroom fixture is my vote and of course, a set for the gen 1 C14s :)
hahahaha, just a bit! I wasn't really expecting that type of response regarding the highway pegs but now I'm aware it's a bit of a touchy subject! Thank you, though! I sure hope we sell a bunch too!
Fair enough...
Would that be the reason for not having just a horizontal bar? Top Block felt that a single horizontal would work... not saying they are the design goal or that they have some holy-grail insight. Really, just discussing.
You need to address my other pretty pictures, too :)
Oh, wow, I'm really sorry Max! At first read I thought you meant remove the horizontal bar and leave only the vertical, which is what I've gone into detail about. I didn't realize you were talking about the opposite of that! I think I need sleep! Hahahaha.
I don't think we've discussed using only the horizontal bar now that we've determined it's necessary, though. Now that I reread your post again I get what you're saying and removing the vertical bar while leaving the horizontal bar may actually work well. Also, I don't think there will be any issues with the shock in a tip-over as long as it's at least a two-point bar which is probably why Top Block decided on that design. I'll have to look into this more once I get back into the office tomorrow morning, have the bike in front of me, and then we can continue to discuss it! Also, I'll address your other photos tomorrow morning when I'm back at work and have time to formulate a response and photoshop a few photos of my own for you!
Hey, Ryan. Thanks for all you've done to include actual C14 riders in your design process. Great job.
You're welcome, bud! I'm hoping the collaboration of all of you along with us here at MCE yield a truly superior product!
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Maybe on a slower silver bike, but never on a Silverdammit bike 8)
Sweet! 08 silver vs 11 silver... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_bitchfight.gif)
:popcorn:
Sorry Ryan, don't mean to threadjack bro but this is a good battle, slow vs slower... ;)
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Sweet! 08 silver vs 11 silver... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_bitchfight.gif)
:popcorn:
Sorry Ryan, don't mean to threadjack bro but this is a good battle, slow vs slower... ;)
Hahahaha it's okay!
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Sweet! 08 silver vs 11 silver... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/smiley_bitchfight.gif)
:popcorn:
Sorry Ryan, don't mean to threadjack bro but this is a good battle, slow vs slower... ;)
We'll fix that issue Saturday ;D And it's Silverdammit, not plain old silver, so boring, just slightly quicker than black, about on pace with blue. Red is still waiting on a color change so they can proceed through the light :P
Back on topic, when ya think these may be ready to gain you some profit for all your hard work?
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Sweet! 08 silver vs 11 silver...
You mean 08 Light Baby Bluish Grey vs 11 REAL Silver ;)
Sorry Ryan, don't mean to threadjack bro but this is a good battle, slow vs slower... ;)
Now I think you mean fast vs. faster.... and you are not sorry in the least!
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Oh, wow, I'm really sorry Max! At first read I thought you meant remove the horizontal bar and leave only the vertical, which is what I've gone into detail about. I didn't realize you were talking about the opposite of that! I think I need sleep! Hahahaha.
No prob, it is really late and we ALL should get sleep (hey, it is past 1:15am here!).
We will have to leave the engineering design and analysis to you professionals, of course. It is already obvious your team has the skill, desire, experience, and ability to produce something great. I am sure each configuration has pluses and minuses. As for feedback from us laypeople, we mostly have to go on aesthetics vs. practicality vs. convenience vs. protection level vs cost. The permutations are mind blowing!
At some point, I would suggest a poll, listing (showing) all the possible configurations that are workable and reasonable, along with a simple estimate of level of protection offered, then let people vote on which they like the most (or least). I am not saying it is a democracy- it is your project and your investment money and time on the line, but the potential customers could offer some insight as to what might sell best. Might even be OK as a "silent" poll, where people just Email or private message you their ranked choices.
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and you are not sorry in the least!
;D ;D ;D :stirpot:
Nope, not at all... ;)
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Estetica...
Con 2 perni nella griglia,facile manutenzione, maggiore protezione punto alto.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2e2ic93.jpg)
MGvalerio. 8)
PS. scusate ..disegno infantile. :-[
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Could the vertical bar have a just a boss at it's lowest point that the bolt goes thru. Then a thick washer on both sides of this boss, then another boss between all of this and where the bolt threads into the frame/engine. This configuration is for when the rear horizonal bar is not being used. Now have the rear bar with a clevis section on the end that attaches to the vertical bar. Now if the two thick washers were removed, the clevis can fill the spaces where the washers were. This would give the end user the choice of how they want to have the bars configured.
Just a thought.
I think it'd be cool if the end user could have a choice of how they have the bar configured but I'm not sure if I understand exactly what you mean in this post. It sounds like it'd be reaaally pricy, though. When you think about it, too, the entire bar is never really being used either until you fall over...
I understand that there must be a horizonal bar, but just so that you understand what I was trying to say, I've attached a screen shot.
The red washers would not be used when the horizonal bar was attached. Hope that this helps.
This type of setup "could" also lead to a different washer and boss combination, where as a highway arm/peg can be mounted. I believe that is what MGvaleri is trying to say in his post. I'm not sure, but does "perni" = "highway peg mount" ?
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No prob, it is really late and we ALL should get sleep (hey, it is past 1:15am here!).
We will have to leave the engineering design and analysis to you professionals, of course. It is already obvious your team has the skill, desire, experience, and ability to produce something great. I am sure each configuration has pluses and minuses. As for feedback from us laypeople, we mostly have to go on aesthetics vs. practicality vs. convenience vs. protection level vs cost. The permutations are mind blowing!
At some point, I would suggest a poll, listing (showing) all the possible configurations that are workable and reasonable, along with a simple estimate of level of protection offered, then let people vote on which they like the most (or least). I am not saying it is a democracy- it is your project and your investment money and time on the line, but the potential customers could offer some insight as to what might sell best. Might even be OK as a "silent" poll, where people just Email or private message you their ranked choices.
A poll is definitely a good idea. I'll look into that once we have all available options out on the table!
Also, I've been looking more into doing a two-point bar where we'd keep the horizontal bar and lose the vertical one. This set-up seems like it would suffice for no- extremely low speed tip-overs but not much beyond that. The reason is when you put crash protection on these bikes, it tends to cause a rocking motion when the bike goes over. In a no-to-low speed situation, the bike would hit the bar and that would be it. However, when you add a little motion to the equation (as low as 10mph) and the bike goes over, it tends to rock over that initial hit point and that's when you end up with damaged mirrors and scuffs on the higher part of the fairing.
With this in mind, it seems to me that keeping something similar to the current set-up with a horizontal and vertical bar of some sort would offer the most optimal protection. That's not to say we can't change it around and play with the design, though. I still plan on fixing up a set similar to what RBX QB posted yesterday. Once I get that done I'll post some pics and check back for feedback!
I understand that there must be a horizonal bar, but just so that you understand what I was trying to say, I've attached a screen shot.
The red washers would not be used when the horizonal bar was attached. Hope that this helps.
This type of setup "could" also lead to a different washer and boss combination, where as a highway arm/peg can be mounted. I believe that is what MGvaleri is trying to say in his post. I'm not sure, but does "perni" = "highway peg mount" ?
Ohhhh, I see what you're saying now. That's a pretty badass little graphic you cooked up, too! That looks like it'd be a pretty sweet application for the bike but you have to keep in mind every process and added piece is going to raise the cost of the bars. I'll show this to Armando, though, and see what he thinks of it! It's definitely something we could handle doing, no problem.
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Are you done? Are they for sale yet? :)
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There are two schools of thought when it comes to this bike.
There are the guys that put on 2" risers for more upright seating, huge windshields, top boxes, and in some cases, bathroom bars. They're the sport/TOURING crowd. They're the ones that want highway pegs.
The others are the guys that are talking about burning up 190-55 rear tires in 3,000 miles, dragging pegs, etc. and lean towards the SPORT/touring side. These guys want sleek tip-over protection and wouldn't be caught dead with highway pegs.
I just think it's cool that there is a bike that can fit both "factions".
:thumbs:
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Are you done? Are they for sale yet? :)
Hahahaha not quite done yet! I'm hoping we can settle on a design by closing time today so we can begin a bit more extensive testing to make sure the bar will hold up in various situations early next week. The bike has to be returned by the end of next week so it'll absolutely be done by then, at the latest. However, the bar won't be ready to sell until approximately 4 weeks after that as it'll have to go through our normal production process.
I'm planning on organizing a group buy for these once the design is completed and finished up. So, those of you who are interested in these stay tuned! We don't have the pricing for this bar worked up yet as the bar isn't done so I can't tell you precisely how much you'll save by participating in the group buy but I can promise you'll be taken care of!
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It seems I hit a nerve with the highway peg issue and I apologize if I pissed anyone off.
Ryan, No nerve hit, and not pissed off. Just stating opinion and reasoning. You've got your job cut out trying to please everyone, knowing you can't possibly succeed. I appreciate that your willing to listen and at least consider all these different ideas. Not many vendors would bother to even try.
Thanks for what you're doing, can't wait to see the finished product...
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We don't have the pricing for this bar worked up yet as the bar isn't done so I can't tell you precisely how much you'll save by participating in the group buy but I can promise you'll be taken care of!
Can those who already have your front bars get a trade in discount?
Oh, the image that I posted, that was done with Parametric's Pro/Engineering 3D modeling software. It’s something that I work with daily.
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I understand that there must be a horizonal bar, but just so that you understand what I was trying to say, I've attached a screen shot.
The red washers would not be used when the horizonal bar was attached. Hope that this helps.
This type of setup "could" also lead to a different washer and boss combination, where as a highway arm/peg can be mounted. I believe that is what MGvaleri is trying to say in his post. I'm not sure, but does "perni" = "highway peg mount" ?
OMG!! Not someone with actual SKILLS that is willing to publicize it on the fourm?
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Can those who already have your front bars get a trade in discount?
That would be nice.
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Can we hold off telling the guys over at the COG board about these new bars once they become available? That way us guys who have GSG's and MCE front bars can sell 'em over there.
;)
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Can we hold off telling the guys over at the COG board about these new bars once they become available? That way us guys who have GSG's and MCE front bars can sell 'em over there.
;)
:chugbeer: :goodpost:
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Can we hold off telling the guys over at the COG board about these new bars once they become available? That way us guys who have GSG's and MCE front bars can sell 'em over there.
;)
:thumbs: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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Ryan, No nerve hit, and not pissed off. Just stating opinion and reasoning. You've got your job cut out trying to please everyone, knowing you can't possibly succeed. I appreciate that your willing to listen and at least consider all these different ideas. Not many vendors would bother to even try.
Thanks for what you're doing, can't wait to see the finished product...
Phew! The last thing I want to do is **** off the community I'm looking to for opinions!
Can those who already have your front bars get a trade in discount?
Oh, the image that I posted, that was done with Parametric's Pro/Engineering 3D modeling software. It’s something that I work with daily.
I suppose I could work with you guys on something like that. Keep in mind though, we're pretty anal about QC over here so if the bathroom bars were returned with ANY type of scuffs of marks (even as small as washer marks from installation/vibration) we'll charge you to have the bar stripped and redone which could be up to $30. Also, you'd be responsible for paying the freight to get the bar back to us. If some of you guys are still interested in this, I can handle you on a one-by-one basis via email once the bars are done and ready to be sold.
That's pretty cool about the program too! No wonder it came out looking so good!
Can we hold off telling the guys over at the COG board about these new bars once they become available? That way us guys who have GSG's and MCE front bars can sell 'em over there.
;)
I haven't posted anything regarding the Canyon Cage over on the COG forum as of yet. I didn't seem to get a very warm reception there so I stopped posting. People didn't really seem interested in hearing from the manufacturer. :o
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snip...
I haven't posted anything regarding the Canyon Cage over on the COG forum as of yet. I didn't seem to get a very warm reception there so I stopped posting. People didn't really seem interested in hearing from the manufacturer. :o
Imagine that? :-X
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I think we may have found our design...
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/NewStyle.jpg)
I really like the look and functionality level of this bar. It really protects the bike well in no and low speed tip-overs as well as looking good doing it! Armando's hand is in the way a bit but the bar still connects to the same point it was yesterday, the rear part of the bar has been unchanged. What do you guys think of this set-up? Any complaints, concerns, or opinions?
Also, for those of you still interested in the quick release set up, I took this photo to help kinda clear up the confusion regarding the inner mounting point. Like I said, this design doesn't really strike me as typical "quick-release" but it literally takes 2-3 minutes to remove each side. That's a pretty damn quick release compared to our other style bars!
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/QuickRelease.jpg)
I could only fit the front two mounting points in the photo (the rearward mounting point is self-explanatory anyway) and you can see how they're easily accessible. To take off either side, it's a matter of removing 3 bolts of the same size. I'm not sure how much quicker it can get without going to some type of cotter pin/slide design which, to me, tends to look a bit chinsy and also weakens the bar.
Anyway, let me know what you guys think of the newer design!
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I think that removal sounds fairly simple, maybe someone on the COG forum with an 08/09 can help us lepers out. Worth a shot. :deadhorse:
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I think that removal sounds fairly simple, maybe someone on the COG forum with an 08/09 can help us lepers out. Worth a shot. :deadhorse:
Is there some sort of animosity between the two forums that I'm not aware of?
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I think we may have found our design...
Anyway, let me know what you guys think of the newer design!
That's very nice!
:thumbs:
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That's very nice!
:thumbs:
Thanks, Mal! Anyone else have any opinions on the newest design? If not, I think we may begin finalizing this bar and getting it ready to be finished!
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It looks great to me Ryan. I really hope that this design will work on the '08/'09 models or that you can get one of these in your shop SOON.
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It looks great to me Ryan. I really hope that this design will work on the '08/'09 models or that you can get one of these in your shop SOON.
Awesome! Yea, I have a few people lined up to test this bar out for us once it's done. If, after their testing, it's determined that the bar wont fit then we'll begin looking for a bike closer to us that we can bring in. If worst comes to worst I can always hit up our contact down at Kawasaki corporate. They've loaned us bikes in the past, it's just a long haul from where we're located.
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I like it. Are you still going with a slider on it?
I think I found my solution for scuffing and scraping. I am going to Rhino line the bars before I install them. Thoughts?
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I think I found my solution for scuffing and scraping. I am going to Rhino line the bars before I install them. Thoughts?
Yep, I do have some thoughts on this. It's like when I bought my truck. I was all set to get a sprayed on bedliner first thing. Then I got to thinking. Why not wait till the bed gets messed up a bit first and then get the bedliner sprayed on? Why not wait and see if you drop your bike first and then put the Rhino stuff on? You have to scuff it up first anyways right?
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I like it. Are you still going with a slider on it?
I think I found my solution for scuffing and scraping. I am going to Rhino line the bars before I install them. Thoughts?
I believe as of now we've scrapped the slider idea but I'm still looking around for an appropriate bumper that'll work. The thing is, I don't want to incorporate one just to say it has one. If I can't make it look like it belongs there, I'd rather not have it there at all. I'm still trying to find a suitable bumper though...
Rhino Lining is actually an interesting idea. Would you do that on top of the powder coating or would you have it stripped then cover it with the Rhino Lining? I have a feeling that stuff would still get scuffed up if you went down at any type of speed but it'd sure as hell be easy to cover up! Either way, I find the Rhino Lining idea intriguing...
@Conrad: We could always send him an unfinished one to Rhino Line! ;)
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I like the latest, as soon as we know whethor it will fit a gen1 or not, I'm in, and I would prefer an unfinished set, I spent too much time and money on power to lose some to the power robbing darkness known as black ;D If it would help, I'd be a guinea pig to see if they fit, no additional discount required, I'd pay whatever the going rate is. And FWIW, I wouldnt mind a minor mod to the plastic. I would like to really push the envelope on slow speed skills, these would help me ride a little loser, knowing things would be OK in a slow speed tip over.
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I like the latest, as soon as we know whethor it will fit a gen1 or not, I'm in, and I would prefer an unfinished set, I spent too much time and money on power to lose some to the power robbing darkness known as black ;D If it would help, I'd be a guinea pig to see if they fit, no additional discount required, I'd pay whatever the going rate is. And FWIW, I wouldnt mind a minor mod to the plastic. I would like to really push the envelope on slow speed skills, these would help me ride a little loser, knowing things would be OK in a slow speed tip over.
Awesome! It sounds like most of you really dig the latest design! We can definitely hook you up with a raw set, too, if that's what you want. Once we get to the stage of testing this bar out on an '08/'09, I'll PM you and we can further discuss you testing out the bar for us! I appreciate your willingness to test the bar for us, though! You'd really be helping us out along with a bunch of other forum goers who are wondering if these will fit on the earlier generation!
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I'm for the 1st generation (08-09) also.
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Awesome! It sounds like most of you really dig the latest design! We can definitely hook you up with a raw set, too, if that's what you want. Once we get to the stage of testing this bar out on an '08/'09, I'll PM you and we can further discuss you testing out the bar for us! I appreciate your willingness to test the bar for us, though! You'd really be helping us out along with a bunch of other forum goers who are wondering if these will fit on the earlier generation!
Thanks Ryan, and I mean, thanks for everything. Have you looked into Murphs as a distributor in the future? Top shelf family run buisness with a strong following 'round these parts. Can't say enough good about them.
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Thanks Ryan, and I mean, thanks for everything. Have you looked into Murphs as a distributor in the future? Top shelf family run buisness with a strong following 'round these parts. Can't say enough good about them.
You're welcome, bud! I actually have never heard of Murphs. I'll look into them though and see if perhaps they'd be interested in carrying these bars for us as it seems they're going to be really popular. Also, you can never have too many vendors! Thanks for the heads up!
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www.murphskits.com (http://www.murphskits.com)
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Yep, I do have some thoughts on this. It's like when I bought my truck. I was all set to get a sprayed on bedliner first thing. Then I got to thinking. Why not wait till the bed gets messed up a bit first and then get the bedliner sprayed on? Why not wait and see if you drop your bike first and then put the Rhino stuff on? You have to scuff it up first anyways right?
That's actually a good point C. What's up with you bro, that's 2 in one month! :o
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That's actually a good point C. What's up with you bro, that's 2 in one month! :o
No way J, the last good idea I had was in March, this is April's good idea. I'm good for the rest of the month now. :chugbeer:
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Why not wait and see if you drop your bike first and then put the Rhino stuff on? You have to scuff it up first anyways right?
Good point!
I can't stop waking up in the middle of the night thinking of these things.
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Thanks, Mal! Anyone else have any opinions on the newest design? If not, I think we may begin finalizing this bar and getting it ready to be finished!
Well, keep in mind that most of us have to work during the day and don't see these postings until we get home from work :)
I think your explanation of the easy removal works for me. Inotherwords, I think you convinced me that it is not going to be tons of work to remove them.
As for the design, I do like the looks. It is a bit more complex and heavy looking than I would have initially preferred, but I think I can roll with it. I have a user group meeting in 30 min tonight and won't get home until late and it sounds like a "done deal" now, so I am not sure my input matters now :) Besides, I would have to stare at it and ponder a lot, and see photos from all different angles to really form a good opinion any anything.
I am glad you are scraping the slider, I just think it will look crazy sticking way out. A nice, sturdy, plastic cap over the bolt is probably all you need. My only real concern is that if the bottom front is the most likely impact point, could the tubing around the recessed bolt get easily damaged, making it impossible to remove the bolt?!!?
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OMG!! Not someone with actual SKILLS that is willing to publicize it on the fourm?
Sorry! It just slipped out! I'll try harder to hide the many other skills that I have. ;D
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I own a 2011 C14 and love it a lot, but to me an "ultimate long distance/touring bike" this isn't. That's a Goldwing (and I have owned one in the past) or BMW equivalent. The C14's hand-numbing grips take the "ultimate" part out of the equation for me.
That"s your opinion which you are entitled to, I am not of the same opinion, I had a 800+ lb pig and it does not fit "ultimate anything" for me, except maybe 2-up. Just as others would feel a Harley fits that bill for them, it is their opinion.
Remember, opinions are like gasholes,we all have one. :chugbeer:
Ryan, That second horizontal bar looks great. Looking forward to the ready to order date. John
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Well, keep in mind that most of us have to work during the day and don't see these postings until we get home from work :)
I think your explanation of the easy removal works for me. Inotherwords, I think you convinced me that it is not going to be tons of work to remove them.
As for the design, I do like the looks. It is a bit more complex and heavy looking than I would have initially preferred, but I think I can roll with it. I have a user group meeting in 30 min tonight and won't get home until late and it sounds like a "done deal" now, so I am not sure my input matters now :) Besides, I would have to stare at it and ponder a lot, and see photos from all different angles to really form a good opinion any anything.
I am glad you are scraping the slider, I just think it will look crazy sticking way out. A nice, sturdy, plastic cap over the bolt is probably all you need. My only real concern is that if the bottom front is the most likely impact point, could the tubing around the recessed bolt get easily damaged, making it impossible to remove the bolt?!!?
That's okay about the people not seeing the posts til they get off of work. As of now, the current design is merely tacked into place waiting to be finalized on Monday so it's not difficult to change things around. I wanted to give you guys the weekend to check out what we've done so far and come up with ways to improve it as we're not open on the weekends. I'll go out there shortly and take 5 or 6 different photos from different angles so you guys have as much to discuss as possible over the next few days. That way we can come in on Monday, change what we need to change based on the discussions, then finalize the baby and get it off to the finishers!
Yea, I don't think there's much else we can do to quicken the removal of the bars. Like I said, as it is, they only take a few minutes per side to remove which really isn't bad.
As for the bolt being stuck in there in the case of an accident, I don't think we have to worry about that much, for a few reasons. Firstly, the part where the bike actually hits first is back more towards the horizontal bar. Second, The bolt is actually flush with the mounting point so it'd be difficult for the material to go over the bolt and hold it in there. Yea, I don't think the hardware getting jammed in there is much to worry about personally.
Anyway, I'll go out there and get some more pictures of various angles of the current design for you guys!
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Here are some extra photos for you guys! I tried to get some various angles and distances but there's only so many ways I can shoot the same product! I hope these photos give you guys enough insight into the product to come up with any last-minute recommendations or opinions! The bar is still easily modifiable at this point but come Monday, we'll begin making the final tweaks and changes!
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0126.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0128.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0129.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0131.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0130.jpg)
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Lay the bike on it's side already man, I want to see how it works and what will touch... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/wait.gif)
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Ryan, visually speaking the thing that distracts from the design is that the joint where the vertical bar meets the lower horizontal bar has no curve as the other directional changes do. Both ends just terminate at the mounting flange. Could not this be a one piece bar with flange welded to the inside radius of the bend at the mounting flange? If necessary this could have a small gussett for strength and a matching gusset in the upper left bend for looks. I hope I'm getting my meaning across.
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I REALLLY like the latest design. I'm on both forums and am sure that these will be a hit on both. Good job!
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Lay the bike on it's side already man, I want to see how it works and what will touch... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/wait.gif)
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: agreed!
Really like the design Ryan, and thanks for the work on these. I worry that the bars do not go down low enough, but pics on it's side would really help.
Thanks.
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Ryan, very nice work so far. As per previous posts, sidebag guards will be needed to supplement the tipover protection afforded by the bars up front. However, on your company's website I can only find sidebag guards listed for 2008-2009 models. The photos you have posted of 2010 model has sidebag guards installed. Do the guards shown on your website also fit 2010 and newer models? And what do they cost?
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Lay the bike on it's side already man, I want to see how it works and what will touch... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/wait.gif)
That'll be coming early next week once we finalize the bar and get it welded up properly! Stay tuned...
Ryan, visually speaking the thing that distracts from the design is that the joint where the vertical bar meets the lower horizontal bar has no curve as the other directional changes do. Both ends just terminate at the mounting flange. Could not this be a one piece bar with flange welded to the inside radius of the bend at the mounting flange? If necessary this could have a small gussett for strength and a matching gusset in the upper left bend for looks. I hope I'm getting my meaning across.
You're definitely getting your meaning across, I know precisely what you mean! The original reason we had it designed this way was so the bar could be taken off relatively quickly with ease. I like you're idea but it may be a pricier change than it sounds like it would be. Instead, I'm thinking of having them change the lower horizontal bar so it meets the vertical bar at the mounting flange instead of slightly above it. This would help give that section of the bar a more rounded look which I believe was your goal.
I REALLLY like the latest design. I'm on both forums and am sure that these will be a hit on both. Good job!
Sweeeeeet!
Really like the design Ryan, and thanks for the work on these. I worry that the bars do not go down low enough, but pics on it's side would really help.
Thanks.
We've tilted the bike over already, I just couldn't get photos of it because I was one of the people supporting the bike. Granted it was an older design we had but the position of the horizontal bar was the same. I can definitely say the bar does extend far enough down and protects the bike really well. Once we get this design finalized I'll be sure to tilt it over again and get photos this time for you!
Ryan, very nice work so far. As per previous posts, sidebag guards will be needed to supplement the tipover protection afforded by the bars up front. However, on your company's website I can only find sidebag guards listed for 2008-2009 models. The photos you have posted of 2010 model has sidebag guards installed. Do the guards shown on your website also fit 2010 and newer models? And what do they cost?
Hmmm, that is really weird! The #1400-300 (small rears for the 2008-2009) do work on the 2010+ models but we made a newer version (#1400-310) to match the 7/8" diameter bathroom bars we made for the 2010-2012 bikes. Therefore the #1400-300 is 1" and the #1400-310 is 7/8", however, the wall thickness is the same for both. That's the only difference between the two. The small saddlebag guards for both models are currently $175 MSRP.
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Instead, I'm thinking of having them change the lower horizontal bar so it meets the vertical bar at the mounting flange instead of slightly above it. This would help give that section of the bar a more rounded look which I believe was your goal.
+1. I was going to post the same request- please have the lower meet at the lowest point in the front, not above the bolt. It is somehow messing up the lines. Also, it looks like the rear mount ear is not straight with the rest of the lower bar. Could be just because it is a mockup. Could be it is just an optical illusion. Could be because you are trying to clear something else I don't see. Or it could just be wrong :)
Thanks for the additional pics. Amazingly minimal from the front and top angles. (It is a bit hard to filter out the green tape in my mind, though... wish you color matched a bit more ;) ) One angle missing- 45 degrees to the front.
One thing is for sure, it looks like an incredibly strong configuration (much more so than your bathroom bars).
Another question (I do tend to have lots): On the back mounting point, is that ear touching the metal on the bike, or hovering off the bike? How much clearance is there? On a more forceful tipover, if the bar is pushed in a bit, will the front of that ear push in and gouge the bike's aluminum?
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I like em, quick Q? Stainless? If so I'd do a brushed finish and call it good. But, I do own Silverdammit, no need for cutesy colors ;D
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I like em, quick Q? Stainless? If so I'd do a brushed finish and call it good. But, I do own Silverdammit, no need for cutesy colors ;D
Interesting. A brushed (satin) stainless option would probably look even better on my [true] silver C14 as compared to chrome. However, stainless steel is tremendously weaker than what they are probably using, and a lot more expensive. And I don't think they can just "plate" the stronger steel with stainless. I think if you wanted that look, you would have to go with a grey/silver-tone powder coat of some type. And in your case, if you were going to go with a custom color like that, then you might as well match your light [neutron] blue.
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I like em, quick Q? Stainless? If so I'd do a brushed finish and call it good. But, I do own Silverdammit, no need for cutesy colors ;D
Interesting. A brushed (satin) stainless option would probably look even better on my [true] silver C14 as compared to chrome. However, stainless steel is tremendously weaker than what they are probably using, and a lot more expensive. And I don't think they can just "plate" the stronger steel with stainless. I think if you wanted that look, you would have to go with a grey/silver-tone powder coat of some type. And in your case, if you were going to go with a custom color like that, then you might as well match your light [neutron] blue.
You guys should buy the "raw" ones Ryan mentioned and then have them paint matched to your bike, then it would really blend in nicely... Do it right or don't do it has always been my way of thought...
Just take em to your painter and tell them to get the slowest paint off the shelf, it will be a perfect match! ;)
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Uber strength isn't what I need, IMNSHO if I were to go down at speed the bike is pretty screwed anyway, I do want tough, to potentially handle multiple drops, at slow parking lot type speeds.. Not to brag, but I like doing the dreaded "Box" one handed, left and right, what I want to do is inside the 20' section one handed and other such things. I'd also like to drag a knee, at slow speed, one handed. Differant physics at work and a challenge I want to do. Why? High speed offs get painfull and expensive, well, quickly. I'd also like to push the envelope on braking, find the far side of good, wet and dry. These cages look like the answer I have been looking for, scratched stainless looks far better than scratched paint. Not a poke (for a change ;D) My 14 is a high smile utillity vehicle, looks are secondary. Function over form. Heck, I'd like to see some short rear versions as I don't do the one handed stuff with them bags on.
Both front and rear would make some great camera points as a bonus :)
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I got my bars to practice slow speed manuevers also and to see how tight of a turn around I can get. I do not want the fear of dropping the bike to cause me to be too conservative.
I know the C14 does not belong to you Ryan but just gently laying it on its side was not the reason for my purchase. I would like to see a drop test as was done with the original bars. I wonder if the mirrors would be protected in that type of drop or slow speed parking lot drop.
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I got my bars to practice slow speed manuevers also and to see how tight of a turn around I can get. I do not want the fear of dropping the bike to cause me to be too conservative.
I know the C14 does not belong to you Ryan but just gently laying it on its side was not the reason for my purchase. I would like to see a drop test as was done with the original bars. I wonder if the mirrors would be protected in that type of drop or slow speed parking lot drop.
I'm going to bet the owner will not sign off on that.
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I'm going to bet the owner will not sign off on that.
I certainly wouldn't if it were mine!
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Holy cow! What a responsive business! I am impressed beyond belief.
Ryan, you've got my CC # and address. Go ahead and put me down for the first set that comes off the line. Im only joking because i know MC Enterprises isn't the kind of company that would charge before they have a product ready to sell.
The tough decision is now going to be powder black to match my small bag guards, or raw and ready for silver powder coat. I'll have to strip and powder the rears too.
MCE have ruined it for every company I deal with from now on. They're platinum level.
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Ryan,
I know that you can't please everyone and I appreciate all of your efforts. A lot of people like what you have came up with. I was hoping for a design that followed the lines of the bike but I do understand why you have gone the route that you have.
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I am new to the forum and have had my 2011 C14 since last August. I purchased MC enterprises crash bars for my wife's Honda VT 750 Shadow. They fit great and MC enterprises was the only place to get them. I am thrilled that you took this project on. It is really cool for a company to let potential, and returning, customers have some input on product design. Great job, and yes ...you can put me down for set as well....black of course...but I don't want get that discussion started ! :D
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I am new to the forum[...]...you can put me down for set as well....black of course...but I don't want get that discussion started ! :D
Ah, you are not as new to the forum as you portray, then ;)
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I also wish the bars had followed more of the lines of the body work. Shown in the following pictures overlayed with in the existing MC crash bars I have installed now, is an idea for a single bar 1 1/2" dia. tubing, 2 bends. Front point falls in a good spot to get a cross bar in front of the motor above the headers. I was planning on working on this for my personal use when the weather gets warmer, but MC started their development. I sure like the cleaner one piece bar look much better.
Gordon
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7844/canyonbarsd4712cd.jpg)
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8062/canyonbarse4812.jpg)
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6029/canyonbarg4812.jpg)
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I also wish the bars had followed more of the lines of the body work. Shown in the following pictures overlayed with in the existing MC crash bars I have installed now, is an idea for a single bar 1 1/2" dia. tubing, 2 bends. Front point falls in a good spot to get a cross bar in front of the motor above the headers. I was planning on working on this for my personal use when the weather gets warmer, but MC started their development. I sure like the cleaner one piece bar look much better.
I am fairly sure they have thrown out any one-bar design at this point. It looks like you are essentially just designing your own "Top Block" type bar that will require modifying the lower fairing.
Certainly, this has merit- the 2010+ Top Block is nowhere near as attractive as the older model, and it is very, very expensive and hard to obtain. Like others, I am torn between that simple, light, unobtrusive design, and the much more visible and complex current design path that McE is taking (the Concours Canyon Cage). For me, the bathroom bars were never even an option. The currently proposed McE design is probably much MORE protection than the Top Block design, but that is not necessarily what I was looking for. Also, it is really pushing the limit of my acceptance for visibility.
Maybe McE would be interested in designing yet another product, their own Top Block clone, perhaps only as a bar (without any slider/plastic). Probably best when combined with the rear bars. That would eliminate the price and availability disadvantages of the Top Block. But I don't think that is going to happen, now.
Decisions, decisions...
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Doesn't look to like it would prevent the bike from falling over on the upper fairing and mirrors. The GSG bars are useless in my opinion because they still allow damage to the bike. For me, the bike needs to be protected at drops which are done at low speed manuevers.
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Doesn't look to like it would prevent the bike from falling over on the upper fairing and mirrors. For me, the bike needs to be protected at drops which are done at low speed maneuvers.
You didn't quote anyone. What doesn't look like it would prevent upper fairing damage? The proposed canyon cage? The Top Block? A single horizontal bar?
If you are talking about the Top Block or a single horizontal bar, if the bike lands on it (which it should, based on previous discussions and photos), then it will protect the lower and top fairings.... as long as the bike doesn't roll over/pivot on it. And that can probably be prevented by also installing the rear bars (which is what I would recommend with any "solution").
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HEY HEY they are LAW ENFORCEMENT BARS , COMBAT bars , not bathroom bars ::)
If you've had to much to drink you might call them, handicap bars.
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As someone who is more on "the other board" than this one... LOL I have to say this project is really exciting! And I'm glad I read this so I didn't go jumping at a rash of "good deals"! LOL
I believe 99% of any real animosity between the different boards is in the minds of a radical few who just can't let things go. But hey, I've only been a Concours guy for a little under 2 years.
I'm KEENLY interested in the group buy, especially if it goes to include the rear protection bars. I'd like the full set up.
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Take your shoes off, stay awhile.
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Sorry I've been lagging a bit on replying to you guys! Although, it is the weekend! We've had some really nice weather here the last few days so I've been out riding! Anyway, to answer your guys questions:
+1. I was going to post the same request- please have the lower meet at the lowest point in the front, not above the bolt. It is somehow messing up the lines. Also, it looks like the rear mount ear is not straight with the rest of the lower bar. Could be just because it is a mockup. Could be it is just an optical illusion. Could be because you are trying to clear something else I don't see. Or it could just be wrong :)
Another question (I do tend to have lots): On the back mounting point, is that ear touching the metal on the bike, or hovering off the bike? How much clearance is there? On a more forceful tipover, if the bar is pushed in a bit, will the front of that ear push in and gouge the bike's aluminum?
Changing where the lower horizontal bar and the vertical bar meet is going to be the first change we make tomorrow morning. I'll take some photos once that done so you guys can see what it looks like. It's a bit weird to see in the photo but the ear is where it needs to be, I believe. It's just misleading to look at because it's slightly egg shaped. Also, that mounting bracket isn't touching the bike; It's approximately 1/8" away from the bike if I'm not mistaken. I suppose it could bend in on a harder spill but it's a relatively thick bracket so I really don't think that'd be something to worry about.
Uber strength isn't what I need, IMNSHO if I were to go down at speed the bike is pretty screwed anyway, I do want tough, to potentially handle multiple drops, at slow parking lot type speeds.. Not to brag, but I like doing the dreaded "Box" one handed, left and right, what I want to do is inside the 20' section one handed and other such things. I'd also like to drag a knee, at slow speed, one handed. Differant physics at work and a challenge I want to do. Why? High speed offs get painfull and expensive, well, quickly. I'd also like to push the envelope on braking, find the far side of good, wet and dry. These cages look like the answer I have been looking for, scratched stainless looks far better than scratched paint. Not a poke (for a change ;D) My 14 is a high smile utillity vehicle, looks are secondary. Function over form. Heck, I'd like to see some short rear versions as I don't do the one handed stuff with them bags on.
Both front and rear would make some great camera points as a bonus :)
A lot of our customers like to use our bars to practice this exact type of stuff. If I'm not mistaken, I think they call it "Rodeo". This is one of the reasons we wanted to stay away from a single, two-point horizontal bar. When you're doing these types of maneuvers and you go down you don't always have time to get your feet down first which, more often than not, causes the bike to roll over that single protective bar and hit the upper fairings/mirrors. We're hoping with our design the bike can do that rocking motion without causing damage to any part of the fairings.
I got my bars to practice slow speed manuevers also and to see how tight of a turn around I can get. I do not want the fear of dropping the bike to cause me to be too conservative.
I know the C14 does not belong to you Ryan but just gently laying it on its side was not the reason for my purchase. I would like to see a drop test as was done with the original bars. I wonder if the mirrors would be protected in that type of drop or slow speed parking lot drop.
Yea, unfortunately there's no way the owner will allow us to do that type of testing. I'm hoping in the near future we can get a bike from Kawasaki to strap these bars on and test because they do allow us to drop them. Until then, we'll have to rely on our experience and customer testimonies.
Holy cow! What a responsive business! I am impressed beyond belief.
Ryan, you've got my CC # and address. Go ahead and put me down for the first set that comes off the line. Im only joking because i know MC Enterprises isn't the kind of company that would charge before they have a product ready to sell.
The tough decision is now going to be powder black to match my small bag guards, or raw and ready for silver powder coat. I'll have to strip and powder the rears too.
MCE have ruined it for every company I deal with from now on. They're platinum level.
Well, thank you! Yea, we'd never do anything like that! That's a good way to lose a lot of loyal customers and get the Fed's on your ass real quick, I'd imagine! Anyway, I'll be starting a new thread for a group buy once the bars and finalized and finished. That way those of you who are interested can make sure you have a set reserved from our first production run. That way you guys can all get a discount as well!
Ryan,
I know that you can't please everyone and I appreciate all of your efforts. A lot of people like what you have came up with. I was hoping for a design that followed the lines of the bike but I do understand why you have gone the route that you have.
Thanks, Pope! Yea, originally I wanted to aim for a design that went more with the lines of the bike but we just couldn't make it happen with the design we ended up settling on. I personally think the bar still looks great and will function well but it's definitely different than what I originally had in mind.
I am fairly sure they have thrown out any one-bar design at this point. It looks like you are essentially just designing your own "Top Block" type bar that will require modifying the lower fairing.
Certainly, this has merit- the 2010+ Top Block is nowhere near as attractive as the older model, and it is very, very expensive and hard to obtain. Like others, I am torn between that simple, light, unobtrusive design, and the much more visible and complex current design path that McE is taking (the Concours Canyon Cage). For me, the bathroom bars were never even an option. The currently proposed McE design is probably much MORE protection than the Top Block design, but that is not necessarily what I was looking for. Also, it is really pushing the limit of my acceptance for visibility.
Maybe McE would be interested in designing yet another product, their own Top Block clone, perhaps only as a bar (without any slider/plastic). Probably best when combined with the rear bars. That would eliminate the price and availability disadvantages of the Top Block. But I don't think that is going to happen, now.
Decisions, decisions...
Yea, I like where Gordon was going with his design. I just don't think that type of design is right for us. We wanted to stay away from a one-bar type design because it doesn't protect enough of the bike. From our standpoint, we have a bunch of different customers that all want their bike protected in different ways so we have to make bars that are going to stand up to a wide variety of situations. It's better for us to make a slightly bigger bar that's going to protect more of the bike than make a super low profile design that's only going to protect the bike in very specific situations. Of course, this all depends on the customers expectations as well. If we, like you said, also offered a single bar design along with the Canyon Cages and bathroom bars than we'd have a wide array of protection options and the customers could choose based on their riding style. That's not a bad idea...
If you are talking about the Top Block or a single horizontal bar, if the bike lands on it (which it should, based on previous discussions and photos), then it will protect the lower and top fairings.... as long as the bike doesn't roll over/pivot on it. And that can probably be prevented by also installing the rear bars (which is what I would recommend with any "solution").
Our rear bars won't stop the bike from that rocking motion. This is the main reason we had to avoid a single bar for the front.
As someone who is more on "the other board" than this one... LOL I have to say this project is really exciting! And I'm glad I read this so I didn't go jumping at a rash of "good deals"! LOL
I believe 99% of any real animosity between the different boards is in the minds of a radical few who just can't let things go. But hey, I've only been a Concours guy for a little under 2 years.
I'm KEENLY interested in the group buy, especially if it goes to include the rear protection bars. I'd like the full set up.
Ahhh, okay. So it's moreso various individual holding personal grudges. Well, that's life I suppose. If you're interested in the group buy, keep checking back. I'll be starting a new thread once these bars are done for the Canyon Cage group buy. Suuure, I suppose I can include the small rears again in the group buy as well.
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I will be, I assure you. :)
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So do these new designs offer more/ less protection than the old style bars? My number one was protection for the bike. And i'm probably not switching. but just curious.
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So do these new designs offer more/ less protection than the old style bars? My number one was protection for the bike. And i'm probably not switching. but just curious.
I am not a structural engineer....
I am not a crash bar designer or tester...
My belief is that the original, police style bars will offer more protection because they stand off so far and also offer more material for energy absorption. They are likely to perform equally at no or low speed, and maybe even moderate (< 25MPH) speed. But the higher the speed or more violent the fall, the more likely the original design will outperform the canyons.
The canyons are, however, three point. So they might do better in certain cases.
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:popcorn: Are we there yet?
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I would prefer protection for slow speed slide.
I had Barrier Bars on my ZX14 at one point. They are the only crash protection short of a stunt cage which would have a) kept the bike from dragging on the road in a slow speed slide, and b) not been damaged except for scrapes on the bar itself.
The problem is, to do maintenance, you had to remove engine bolts to take them off. Anything that attaches to engine bolts is problematic. It will a) make any maintenance which requires the side cowls to be removed, more expensive, and b) risk your engine bolt mounts (aka frame) in a crash.
At least with the Barrier Bars, a slide wouldn't be a problem as the pressure is spread out quite well.
My problem with the MCE idea, as well as the Miltitant Moto Barrier Bars I had for my ZX14, is any time you need to do maintenance which requires the side cowl to be removed, you have to unbolt engine bolts and then re-install engine bolts. Clearly I don't consider that a good situation, since at least in the ZX14 service manual, it says anytime you remove engine bolts, you have to replace them with new bolts because the installation torque reaches the stress limit of the bolt.
So before I would buy an equivalent level of protection for my 2012 Concours 14, I would need to see a product which solves the problems above.
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This may have been suggested, or maybe not because of taste, but any though of powder coating to color match specific years. I really like the look as it is, and would order black for my 2010 unless they were available in Neptune Blue. In blue, the would almost disappear into the background. Same for the rear bars.
Just my .02 as I plan to order regardless.
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So do these new designs offer more/ less protection than the old style bars? My number one was protection for the bike. And i'm probably not switching. but just curious.
I'd say that our bathroom bars probably offer a bit more protection than these Canyon Cages do merely because they hold the bike higher off the ground during tip-overs. Other than that the protection is very similar.
:popcorn: Are we there yet?
Getting there! We should actually have the design finalized by this afternoon. I'm hoping we can send it off to our powder coaters tomorrow!
My problem with the MCE idea, as well as the Miltitant Moto Barrier Bars I had for my ZX14, is any time you need to do maintenance which requires the side cowl to be removed, you have to unbolt engine bolts and then re-install engine bolts. Clearly I don't consider that a good situation, since at least in the ZX14 service manual, it says anytime you remove engine bolts, you have to replace them with new bolts because the installation torque reaches the stress limit of the bolt.
So before I would buy an equivalent level of protection for my 2012 Concours 14, I would need to see a product which solves the problems above.
We provide new, high-quality, Grade 8 hardware (which has a higher stress limit than the OEM hardware) with all of our protective bars so removing and retightening the bolts shouldn't pose any sort of risk. After all, we've put on and removed these types of bars numerous times on bikes when we fit the bars up and haven't ran into any negative repercussions. Although, every bike is different.
I can understand mechanics charging more for having to take the Cages off and everything but there's a simple solution to that: Take the bars off yourself before you take the bike in to have it serviced. This would have been a bit of a tall order with the bathroom bars but seeing as how these Canyon Cages can be taken off in less than 2-3 minutes per side (without having to remove or even loosen the fairings), it doesn't seem too far-fetched that one can simply remove the bars themselves before taking their bike in.
Also, it would be incredibly difficult to manufacture a bar that didn't tie in at some engine mount point. I'm sure it could be done but it would, more than likely, require very intricate bracket work that would seriously lessen the strength of the bars while adding quite a bit of cost. I'm sure it's doable, though.
This may have been suggested, or maybe not because of taste, but any though of powder coating to color match specific years. I really like the look as it is, and would order black for my 2010 unless they were available in Neptune Blue. In blue, the would almost disappear into the background. Same for the rear bars.
Just my .02 as I plan to order regardless.
We have given some thought to offering more color choices but you have to keep in mind that we, for the most part, have to get these bars finished long before we ever sell them so the issue comes in guessing what colors are going to sell and which aren't. It would suck to have 10 bars sitting on the shelf for 6 months merely because nobody wants the silver ones. It seems best from our standpoint to merely offer a couple color choices along with offering the bar raw to those who want a "custom" type of color. That way the people who want a custom color can take the bar in to someone local and have it painted to match their bike perfectly without having to pay to have the original finish stripped off. However, a lot of people don't realize they can get the bar "raw"...
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When you do the simple modification to the fairings, ie cut off the second and fourth tab, you can remove the fairings w/o removing the bars.
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The vertical bar looks okay but the horizontal bars would look better if they followed the angle of the fairing vents. The top horizontal bar could angled up to follow the fairing then down and then in to attach to the frame. Then the lower horizontal bar could be a straight bar between the vertical bar and top bar before it bends into the frame. Kinda opposite of what you have.
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We need to see if this will fit on an 08. And how it looks on an 08.
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The vertical bar looks okay but the horizontal bars would look better if they followed the angle of the fairing vents. The top horizontal bar could angled up to follow the fairing then down and then in to attach to the frame. Then the lower horizontal bar could be a straight bar between the vertical bar and top bar before it bends into the frame. Kinda opposite of what you have.
We actually tacked a set up with the changes you described and it came out really weird looking. So much so that I decided it wasn't even worth it to take photos and check back with you guys. Like you, I thought the bar would look much better if the top horizontal bar bent up then back down along with the fairings but it came out looking really awkward.
How do you guys like the design pictured below, though? I made the change to the lower horizontal bar and made it connect to the vertical one at the lowest possible point. Let me know what you guys think!
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0133.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0135.jpg)
We need to see if this will fit on an 08. And how it looks on an 08.
I definitely agree! I have a few people lined up to test this bar out on an '08 but we have to get the bar finalized first. I'm still holding out hope that I can get an old '08 from Kawasaki so I can film some real drop tests for you guys with these bars installed.
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Looks great and I, for one, am ready to order ;D I've already lined up powder coating to match color - just waiting for the official launch! Will be ordering the rear guards at the same time as it sounds like that may be an option in the group buy.
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The vertical bar looks okay but the horizontal bars would look better if they followed the angle of the fairing vents. The top horizontal bar could angled up to follow the fairing then down and then in to attach to the frame. Then the lower horizontal bar could be a straight bar between the vertical bar and top bar before it bends into the frame. Kinda opposite of what you have.
[...]
We actually tacked a set up with the changes you described and it came out really weird looking. So much so that I decided it wasn't even worth it to take photos and check back with you guys. Like you, I thought the bar would look much better if the top horizontal bar bent up then back down along with the fairings but it came out looking really awkward.
It is hard for me resist wanting to see what it looked like, too :) It seems intuitive that it would have looked better following the fairing lines.
How do you guys like the design pictured below, though? I made the change to the lower horizontal bar and made it connect to the vertical one at the lowest possible point. Let me know what you guys think!
Well, that is a no-brainer. It looks much better than when it almost but not quite connected at the same point!
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I like the way the lower bar goes straight into the mount point.
Must be tough opening up a design on a public forum. Man! those guys won't leave my stuff alone.
Here is another variation with the tubes following the lines of the fairing and the duct vanes.
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4885/connybarsb4912.jpg)
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I like the looks of that.
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Here is another variation with the tubes following the lines of the fairing and the duct vanes.
There ya go! That looks interesting. Might look better if the top bend were more gradual (had a greater radius). Plus, still needs the lower bar to connect at the bolthead on the bottom.
I can see that this would, indeed, be weaker, though. I think one would have to retain the bottom as a single piece to maintain the strength... even if it were bent... BUT.... It would be quite a bend, though... to the point that your proposal probably has as much merit.
So many possibilities
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I'm with Dalroo on this... in fact, I'll let him line up the powder coater for me. :D
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This is almost exactly what i was describing. Color match these bars and they would blend in so much better then the straight bars. It would be only slightly weaker then the straight bar, but nothing that would be noticeably different in a drop application as long as a reasonable wall thickness is used.
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(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4885/connybarsb4912.jpg)
I like this design best so far.
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I would lower the bottom bar more like this and maybe alter the angle of the vertical bar just a bit. The vertical bar wouldn't need the bend altered just a slit rotation and notch to line up the bottom. My paint shop skills are a bit limited.
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I would lower the bottom bar more like this and maybe alter the angle of the vertical bar just a bit. The vertical bar wouldn't need the bend altered just a slit rotation and notch to line up the bottom. My paint shop skills are a bit limited.
Well, they already lowered the lower bar so it would meet at one point. GordonM just grabbed the pre-fixed version for his photo editing (impressive photo editing at that). The angle of the vertical bar was actually OK as it was sitting, I think your suggestion for tilting it a bit more is even better, but they do have to work with where the mount points are located.
I didn't realize just how much more I like the GordonM version until after I went back and looked at the other design a while, then looked back at the new slanted version. The more I look at the slanted ones, the better it looks. I hope it is not too late for this to be seriously considered...
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I have not read all these pages, but would it be possible to design the bars so a set of highway foot pegs would bolt on to the bars? Maybe someone already addressed that.
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I have not read all these pages, but would it be possible to design the bars so a set of highway foot pegs would bolt on to the bars? Maybe someone already addressed that.
It was already addressed. You can add your own clamp-ons, if you desire.
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I also like GordonM design. But not sure if it would withstand a strong impact.
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My knees and shins are pretty darn close to that surface of the fairing, I worry about this newer design and leg room.
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My knees and shins are pretty darn close to that surface of the fairing, I worry about this newer design and leg room.
A valid concern, but it looks like the rear bending up part is still outside the fairing and the parts coming off the rear mount are not much higher. Of course, it is just a photo mockup. My guess is that it could be made with the identical clearances.
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Wow, it seems as though Gordons design is the most popular. It's definitely not too late to try a design like that out. I have two small concerns, though. One is strength and the other is where the bike is going to hit. Gordon appeared to move the lower bar up a bit which could be dangerous. This bike tends to hit fairly low and far back on the fairing, that's why we originally made the design with that lower horizontal bar closer to the ground.
I'll show this to Armando, though, and see if we can get one mocked up for you guys. Gordons design will require us to make an entirely new bar but that's okay. We should be able to crank it out by this afternoon. The owner of the bike is allowing us to keep it another week so we can continue to play around with designs as to exhaust as many options as possible. I'll keep you guys posted...
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I like the prior design. Even though it didn't flow with the fairings, it seems less conspicuous because it's lower on the bike.
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Ryan, pass our appreciation and many thanks to the owner of the bike for us.
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I like the prior design. Even though it didn't flow with the fairings, it seems less conspicuous because it's lower on the bike.
What he said.
Ryan, pass our appreciation and many thanks to the owner of the bike for us.
Him as well. The last time we had a farkle thread this long is was about the AreaP Full exhaust system, that is a keeper, seems this is well.
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I like the prior design. Even though it didn't flow with the fairings, it seems less conspicuous because it's lower on the bike.
I personally preferred the prior design as well but a few people expressed interest in Gordons version so I think we'll work a set up like his just to see what it looks like on the bike. It can never hurt to try! Honestly, this bar is so minimal that when it's finished it'll disappear into the fairings anyhow. If, once we have Gordons design worked up, we decide we don't like it we can always revert back to the prior design.
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What would it take in the way of a bribe to weld up a set of your last design, pack em up and send my way, raw of course for fitment onto an '08. The fairing is differant and I think Gordons design may have the opposite effect on '08/9s. I'd make it a priority for this weekend. Pics would be posted by Sunday.
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What would it take in the way of a bribe to weld up a set of your last design, pack em up and send my way, raw of course for fitment onto an '08. The fairing is differant and I think Gordons design may have the opposite effect on '08/9s. I'd make it a priority for this weekend. Pics would be posted by Sunday.
Well, as of right now, we only have that one set of the last design so unfortunately I wouldn't be able to send it to you because we'll need it to make a jig if that's the design we settle on. If you'd like to be a guinea pig for us for a 2008-2009 I can certainly make note of it and message you when we're ready to have the bar tested on an '08-'09. How does that sound, Pappy?
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Absolutely Ryan. I'll PM ya my addy and email addy.
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I hope that I am not creating controversy with this project. I am mainly trying to throw out some possibilities to improve the appearance. I am not the expert on the protection and fall down characteristics other than knowing where the Connie hit the ground with the current MC Enterprises crash bars. I had my doubts over moving the contact point up when the bars where rotated to align with the vane angle. The lower front attachment point creates alot of the problems.
Here is another approach which lowers the contact back down again although it is not a horizontal bar to contact the ground and it complicates the lower front attachment point and I am not sure about all of the welding involved and the strength of this joint. But it does smooth out the look where the bars interesect the attachment boss. Photoshop allows you to try alot of ideas before building the parts.
I probably could have lived with the bar design when it had the single horizontal bar intersecting the angled front mount bar, but when the second horizontal bar was added it was just too many horizontal lines conflicting with the angled vanes of the fairing.
Gordon
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8697/connybars41012.jpg)
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The evolution of the Canyon Cages
I had to put all of these pictures on one page to put them into perspective.
1
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Connie1.jpg)
2
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Connie4.jpg)
3
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/NewerDesign.jpg)
4
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/RightSide.jpg)
5
Ryan's hot legs
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/KneeClearance.jpg)
6
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/NewStyle.jpg)
7
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0128.jpg)
8
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0135.jpg)
9
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4885/connybarsb4912.jpg)
10
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8697/connybars41012.jpg)
I like both 9 & 10, but I am for the one that offers the most protection in a drop. Priority number #1 me and my bike, #2 looks.
Gordon has some MAD Photoshop skills.
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Absolutely Ryan. I'll PM ya my addy and email addy.
Sounds good!
I hope that I am not creating controversy with this project. I am mainly trying to throw out some possibilities to improve the appearance. I am not the expert on the protection and fall down characteristics other than knowing where the Connie hit the ground with the current MC Enterprises crash bars. I had my doubts over moving the contact point up when the bars where rotated to align with the vane angle. The lower front attachment point creates alot of the problems.
Here is another approach which lowers the contact back down again although it is not a horizontal bar to contact the ground and it complicates the lower front attachment point and I am not sure about all of the welding involved and the strength of this joint. But it does smooth out the look where the bars interesect the attachment boss. Photoshop allows you to try alot of ideas before building the parts.
I probably could have lived with the bar design when it had the single horizontal bar intersecting the angled front mount bar, but when the second horizontal bar was added it was just too many horizontal lines conflicting with the angled vanes of the fairing.
Gordon
You're definitely correct in saying the lower-front mounting point creates a lot of the issues. That's part of the problem we're having over here when actually creating the bar. I have to say, though, I definitely like your second version better than the first from a manufacturing stand point. Your first bar was just too dang high on the fairing to protect it the way we want to protect it. If your first version were to be installed, the lower part of the fairing would definitely take a hit if the bike went over which is unacceptable. Of course, this is very hard for you to foresee when you're using photoshop to mock up a bar and not doing it in person. I think your second version would do a much better job protecting the lower part of the fairings.
We're currently working on a slightly different design that I think looks great and should still function very well. If this next design we're working on doesn't work out I'll start working on getting a bar tacked and bent that resembles your second version because I really do like that style. I'll keep you guys posted!
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The evolution of the Canyon Cages
I had to put all of these pictures on one page to put them into perspective.
I like both 9 & 10, but I am for the one that offers the most protection in a drop. Priority number #1 me and my bike, #2 looks.
Gordon has some MAD Photoshop skills.
Those photoshopped images Gordon did are pretty intense, I must say! I also like #10, Gordons second version. That bar has the great aesthetics of the first bar he made up but it would definitely do a better job of protecting more of the fairings. If this current design we're working on doesn't work out we'll get cranking on a set of Gordons. Thanks for the progression shots, though! That's pretty cool!
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#10 is much better with the lower bar moved down some. #8 is good too, I'm still sorta partial to that one but 10 is right there now.
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#10 is much better with the lower bar moved down some. #8 is good too, I'm still sorta partial to that one but 10 is right there now.
Yea, right now it seems as though the competition is between #8 and #10...
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I hope that I am not creating controversy with this project.
Not at all! In fact, I wish you were here earlier in the project ;) You have some great ideas!
Here is another approach which lowers the contact back down again although it is not a horizontal bar to contact the ground and it complicates the lower front attachment point and I am not sure about all of the welding involved and the strength of this joint. But it does smooth out the look where the bars interesect the attachment boss.
Yet ANOTHER interesting idea.
I probably could have lived with the bar design when it had the single horizontal bar intersecting the angled front mount bar, but when the second horizontal bar was added it was just too many horizontal lines conflicting with the angled vanes of the fairing
I know what you mean.
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Been following this thread since it started. I've enjoyed the evolution, but I'm beginning to think that it's getting to be "too much". I actually liked #1 with at thin slider like the swingarm protection from ProjectD.
http://projektd.com/popup_add_image.php?imagesID=591&products_id=167 (http://projektd.com/popup_add_image.php?imagesID=591&products_id=167)
Or #10 with only the one "horizontal" bar. Maybe even #8 with only the one "horizontal" bar.
Of course, paint them black and remove the green tape and maybe they won't look so huge.
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I thought it looked better before they added the third bar.
Less is more?
Can someone photoshop those mounting points on an 08?
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I like #4 simple clean and minimal.
#10 doesn't quite do it for me. Don't care for the front lower bend up. Might look cool to miter it. A miter welded up with a bulkhead is stronger then a bend but more expensive to make as it is much more labor intensive but look really cool.
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The evolution of the Canyon Cages
I had to put all of these pictures on one page to put them into perspective.
Thanks for doing that Gumbi, much easier seeing them all together! :chugbeer:
I have no dog in this race, but if I did I would vote for #1. Simple and clean. 8)
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Thanks for posting all the pictures in one place! (Note: #3, #4, and #5 are all identical design; same with #6 and #7)
If I had to rank what I like so far, in order, it would be:
# 10 (best looking so far, perhaps after a few tweaks, matches angles, interesting design)
# 9 (matches the fairing the best, might not be enough protection)
# 2 (yep, I actually like it meeting at the center that way, it is more interesting and "fast" looking)
# 3/4/5 but with the horizontal meeting the vertical at a single point (simple, functional)
I hate to say it, but I think I would be least happy with 6/7/8. It is a nice looking bar, when taken alone. But on the bike, it just conflicts too much with the lines of the vents and bike. I could
I don't think we can count #1, because it has been said it will not offer any reasonable protection.
If this does go to poll, I think it needs to be crafted carefully so people can, for each design, express what they like, by how much, in what order, and what they don't like at all. Something that rates each design on a like and action scale might make sense- something like:
5=will definitely buy, perfect
4=would buy, great but not perfect
3=probably buy, but not great
2=reluctantly might buy it, but not happy with it
1=would never buy, hate it
The forum software can't handle it, but we could do it manually through postings or private messages. It is not a democracy, just feedback :)
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I like #10, looks like it would be stronger at the point of impact near the rear of the fairing. Following the bikes lines adds to the asthetics. Maybe the bottom bar of #10 and the top bar of #9. Powder coat it black and it'll blend in nicely. Now how far are they gonna stick out? Can't wait to see the final design! Great work!
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8 for my '08 8)
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I prefer the earlier designs. Less is definitely more. Pic 1 definitely looks the best but I doubt it will offer any real protection. I think it was just a photo to show the progress of the project. Pics 3- 5 are outstanding. I assume that the third bar that is added in the next pics are for added strength. So I don't know if those pics show a viable product. If Ryan and MCE think that would work, thats the best looking. Pics 6-8 are pretty good. I suspect that the extra metal is for strength. I don't care for 9 or 10. They look boxy and out of place. Maybe it's the photoshop. It may look better mocked up, but I don't care for either.
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for me I prefer then in
1) #8
2) #9
3) #10
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We're currently working on getting a variation of #10 bent and tacked right now and so far it's looking really good. It won't come out looking exactly like the photoshopped version because there are some lines on the bike that have to be accommodated for that are hard to see in the photo. #9 is out of the race because the lower horizontal bar doesn't extend low enough to offer the type of protection we're gunning for. If you like that style, though, we'll have to go with our variation on #10. Once we get this current design mocked up we'll see what you guys think.
The only other version we're still seriously considering is #8 or, if all else fails, a modified version of #8 where we remove the top horizontal bar and it ends up like #3/#4 where that lower horizontal bar meets the vertical one at the lowest point possible. I believe these are the two most popular designs, though.
Keep in mind, though: When these bars are finished and powdercoated, they'll all disappear into the fairings quite well and look sleek because of the low-profile type of design. I know some of these versions don't seem "low-profile" because there's quite a bit of material but they really do look relatively minimal on the bike in person. Anyhow, I'll get this #10 version finished up and take some photos for you guys to see. I have a feeling a few opinions might change once you can see it on the bike.
EDIT: I wanted to add the photos of the bars we're still considering to this post so you guys don't have to keep going back to the other pages to reference what I'm talking about!
#10
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/connybars41012.jpg)
#8
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0135.jpg)
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Well, here's the latest design we came up with based off that #10 design Gordon mocked up for us! It looks like Armando tweaked a few small things since I laid the design out for them yesterday afternoon but I dig how it came out. The lower-front mounting point will still be in the same location as the other bars but we've come up with another way to tie-in to that spot so the bar can remain complete instead of having to be welded around a joint. This design should be just as strong and offer the same amount of protection as our previous #8 design. What do you guys think? Oh, and keep in mind that although the bar is segmented in the photo, the final bar will be solid.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/NewestClose.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Newest.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/NewestFront45.jpg)
I think I'm going to have them lengthen the top horizontal bar a bit and move the bend back so it more closely resembles the #10 design Gordon came up with. I originally envisioned something like this:
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/NewestClose-1.jpg)
We're slowly running out of time with this bike so we'll have to settle on a design within the next day or so. This will probably be the last major revamp we do. Once the verdict is in on this latest design, hopefully we can conduct a poll between the few finalists we have so we can choose which bar we're going to go with. We'd really like to have time to get the bar finished up and powdercoated so we can get photos of it for our website and do a bit of drop-over testing for you guys. OH! I forgot to mention: The owner said we COULD do drop testing with this bike! Hopefully once the design is settled upon and finished we'll have some drop video for you guys to gush over! ;D
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I like #8 better myself. I think that some of the guys with 10's/11's/12's might like #10 better because the top bar matches the angles of the fairing vents. I think that the angle of those vents on 08's/09's are a bit different aren't they?
Edit,
I like the new bar too.
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Great job so far!
Can you make a tighter bend (closer to a right angle) in the clouded area?
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The canyon cage in the photoshopped picture would be outstanding. I had a VFR800 tip over due to wind while at work and I wish I had a set of bars to protect it from the 5 grand of damage. So I am waiting until these are ready and my vote is for protection at any design. But #9 is the way to go now we need a attachment for highway foot pegs and I ready to ride for days.
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Great job so far!
Can you make a tighter bend (closer to a right angle) in the clouded area?
It's currently a right angle radius as is so I'm not sure what you're attempting to accomplish with tightening the bend because it currently flows with the fairings pretty well I thought. Also, it'd be difficult to tighten the bend any more because, although you can't see it, there's a mounting point that the bar ties in to directly behind that corner. :-\
EDIT: I just realized you meant change that radius bend to a perfect right angle with a sharp bend which is definitely doable. I apologize if my initial response came off snarky, I didn't mean for it to sound that way!
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Ok #9 Still my favorite, also would like to know about installation instructions. I know that it looks pretty simple, but I am have to have instructions but won't read them kinda guy. ;D I would like to know if a powder coat is more durable than paint so if it does tip over its not scratching the paint off the bars. And what is the tube diameter of the bars so I know if I can buy highway pegs.
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Thanks for the quick reply, no offense taken at all.
I'm surprised there hasn't been some attitude with 50 or so people critiquing your work in progress.
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Oh, I like that so much better! Make the changes to the upper bar you were talking about and it will be great!! It has such a nice flow now with the bends as it comes out from the top mount, down and around and back. Are you still going to have a lower front mount? Go Armando, go.
I would order one!
Gordon
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Excellent! I'm sitting with credit card in hand.........................
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Can you quikly spray paint one of these last concepts black so that we can see what is may look like painted?
And remove the green tape too?(just for the photo)
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Ok #9 Still my favorite, also would like to know about installation instructions. I know that it looks pretty simple, but I am have to have instructions but won't read them kinda guy. ;D I would like to know if a powder coat is more durable than paint so if it does tip over its not scratching the paint off the bars. And what is the tube diameter of the bars so I know if I can buy highway pegs.
Installation instructions will definitely be included with the purchase of the bar along with all the necessary hardware! Powder coat is definitely more resilient than paint but whether or not it gets scratched depends on how you fall, where you fall, and at what speed you fall so that's a difficult question to answer. If it's a no-to-low speed basic tip over then it probably won't be scratched at all but if you low-side a 40mph sweeping left turn then you can expect it'll be fairly scuffed up. Currently we're working with 1" diameter tubing (a very generic size; should have no problem finding a peg/clamp combo to work with these) to match the small rear guards for the 2010-2012 Connies.
Thanks for the quick reply, no offense taken at all.
I'm surprised there hasn't been some attitude with 50 or so people critiquing your work in progress.
Hahahahahah I've had to bite my tongue a few times. :-X
Oh, I like that so much better! Make the changes to the upper bar you were talking about and it will be great!! It has such a nice flow now with the bends as it comes out from the top mount, down and around and back. Are you still going to have a lower front mount? Go Armando, go.
I would order one!
Gordon
Yea, we'll make the change to the top bar then I'll snap a few more pictures for you guys. Yea, the lower front is still there it's just hidden for now. We have an interesting idea on how to go about that mount, though. It's a bit hard to explain but basically we're going to drill a hole through the bar where the mount needs to be an incorporate it with a bucket type joint. Like I said, it's a bit hard to explain but you'll know precisely what I mean if we decide to go with this design and finalize it. Stay tuned!
Can you quikly spray paint one of these last concepts black so that we can see what is may look like painted?
And remove the green tape too?(just for the photo)
Unfortunately, if we did that, we'd have to pay to have the paint stripped when we send the bar down to get powder coated if it's the design we end up settling on. :( So, I'd rather not risk it right now because we're not sure which bar we're going to go with yet. Once we decide on a final design, I could probably do this with one of the runner-ups though just to give you guys an idea of how much the bars disappear into the fairings once they're painted. Would that work for you?
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It sounds like #8 and #10 are getting a lot of attention, and I like them both enough to buy either of them, but I would like to see a pic taken of both of those choices taken a few feet back so we can see how the front and rear (small) bars look together as a package. The rear bars are horizontally oriented and I just want to see how the fronts look with both orientations, horizontal and upswept.
Hang in there, Ryan...we'll all breathe a sigh of relief when this baby is finally born! I think we're in the pushing phase right now... how's it feel?
dave
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I prefer the earlier designs. Less is definitely more. Pic 1 definitely looks the best but I doubt it will offer any real protection. I think it was just a photo to show the progress of the project. Pics 3- 5 are outstanding. I assume that the third bar that is added in the next pics are for added strength. So I don't know if those pics show a viable product. If Ryan and MCE think that would work, thats the best looking. Pics 6-8 are pretty good. I suspect that the extra metal is for strength. I don't care for 9 or 10. They look boxy and out of place. Maybe it's the photoshop. It may look better mocked up, but I don't care for either.
I agree with Astros50 that the simplier design (#1) has its appeal. If that design provides sufficient protection, and the two points of contact instead of three would provide adequate support, then #1 is my preference. But kudos to Gordon for his design (#10); the best looking of the more expansive designs.
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It sounds like #8 and #10 are getting a lot of attention, and I like them both enough to buy either of them, but I would like to see a pic taken of both of those choices taken a few feet back so we can see how the front and rear (small) bars look together as a package. The rear bars are horizontally oriented and I just want to see how the fronts look with both orientations, horizontal and upswept.
Hang in there, Ryan...we'll all breathe a sigh of relief when this baby is finally born! I think we're in the pushing phase right now... how's it feel?
dave
It feels like I should have opted for the epidural and C-section rather than this natural-born hooey! Hahahaha totally kidding! I'm a little weary from trying to many designs but I believe our hard work will definitely pay off in the end! I'll see if I can get photos a little farther back for you, though. As it is right now I believe we have #10 mounted on the right side of the bike and #8 mounted on the left side so getting photos of both should be a snap.
I agree with Astros50 that the simplier design (#1) has its appeal. If that design provides sufficient protection, and the two points of contact instead of three would provide adequate support, then #1 is my preference. But kudos to Gordon for his design (#10); the best looking of the more expansive designs.
Unfortunately #1 doesn't offer the type of protection we're aiming for so that one is pretty much out of the race. To protect the bike like we need it to, we have to have the horizontal bar that extends back in some way, shape, or form. Whether it meets the vertical bar at the middle or bottom though is merely style preference. However, I believe one of the designs with the second horizontal bar is going to be the strongest and offer the most protection. I believe that's why we're leaning towards one of those designs as of right now.
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This has got to be one of the best threads i have followed in a long time. Its refreshing to see a business that listens to their target demographic on the front end.
Ryan, i know it can be hard since we all have are own opinion of what is perfect. I applaud you for your effort.
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This has got to be one of the best threads i have followed in a long time. Its refreshing to see a business that listens to their target demographic on the front end.
Ryan, i know it can be hard since we all have are own opinion of what is perfect. I applaud you for your effort.
+1 Ryan! I'll reward your hard work and patience by buying a set of these bars once all is said and done. :thumbs:
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Unfortunately #1 doesn't offer the type of protection we're aiming for so that one is pretty much out of the race. To protect the bike like we need it to, we have to have the horizontal bar that extends back in some way, shape, or form. Whether it meets the vertical bar at the middle or bottom though is merely style preference. However, I believe one of the designs with the second horizontal bar is going to be the strongest and offer the most protection. I believe that's why we're leaning towards one of those designs as of right now.
Ryan, thanks for the explanation. This evolving endeavor is an interesting process!
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Unfortunately, if we did that, we'd have to pay to have the paint stripped when we send the bar down to get powder coated if it's the design we end up settling on. :( So, I'd rather not risk it right now because we're not sure which bar we're going to go with yet. Once we decide on a final design, I could probably do this with one of the runner-ups though just to give you guys an idea of how much the bars disappear into the fairings once they're painted. Would that work for you?
Just use this bar as it doesn't have to be one of the final designes, just close.
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I suppose the new one is now "#11", I'm liking that look. Combines the best of both 8 and 10.
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Just use this bar as it doesn't have to be one of the final designes, just close.
We really only have 2 or so separate bars as of right now. We're not making completely new bars for every design, merely modifying the previous bar with the changes discussed here. Once we settle on a design though, I'll see if I can paint the runner-up and put it on for you guys so you can get an idea of what the bar will look like when it's finished.
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I believe the modified #10 design is the better way to go. The bottom bar being lower and the sweep are more in keeping with the rest of the lines on the C14. When you look at the bike as a whole, there are a lot more curving lines than sharp angular line. Whatever you decide, you're going to have a hit on your hand.
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Welp, here is #11 and hopefully the final design! I REALLY dig this design and it looks stellar on the bike. Also, it really goes well with the small rear guards as the radius' really match up and look awesome. I sure as hell hope you guys like this design as much as I do so we can get it finalized and finished!
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/FinalClose.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Final.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/FinalFront45.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/FinalFrontTall.jpg)
There's really only one concern with this bar: The upwards bend where the bar wraps around the fairing and begins going forward on the bike pictured below MAY get bent up more towards the fairing if the bike goes over hard enough. I'm hoping the upper horizontal bar will add enough strength to stop it from hitting the fairing, though. This is something we just won't know until we start doing a bit of drop over testing.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/Concern.jpg)
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#11 has 3 mounting points right Ryan?
It looks great to me. I just hope that it fits a '08/'09.
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Come on Ryan, lay it on it's side already bro... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/wait.gif) (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)
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#11 has 3 mounting points right Ryan?
It looks great to me. I just hope that it fits a '08/'09.
I concur. If you can proof it on an 08/09 I'm in.
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Yes #11 looks great. In regards to your comment about the tube in the last photo. Could the mounting tab be more of a flat "L" shape? By doing so you could raise that end of the tubing up a little and still be able to remove the battery panel. Just a thought. ;D
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:thumbs: #11 looks great.
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#11 has 3 mounting points right Ryan?
It looks great to me. I just hope that it fits a '08/'09.
Yes, #11 has three mounting points. The front lower one (the one that's hidden) is in the same place it has always been. That point is just hidden as of right now because we simply bent the bar into place so you guys could see what it would look like. Incorporating that specific mounting point the way we want to takes quite a bit of time so we decided to just skip that part for now so we can get a design chosen first. If this is the design we choose we'll go ahead and get the bar made up completely, weld it into place, then do a bit of drop testing. Then, based on the drop tests, we'll make small changes as we need to then the bar should be ready for the finishers!
As far as fitting an '08/'09, I sure hope it does as well. I have a feeling we're going to run into some issues, though. The bar may fit but I don't think it'll follow the lines of the bike as well as it does on the 2010-2012. As unfortunate as it may be, I think we'll just have to bring an '08/'09 in and fit it up separately although I'm going to have a few people test this bar on an '08/'09 first to be absolutely sure it doesn't fit up.
Come on Ryan, lay it on it's side already bro... (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/wait.gif) (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)
Hahahaha that'll be coming once we get the design chosen and the bar welded up properly! Sorry it's taking a bit longer than expected but we're really trying to do a thorough job on designing the bar. Stay tuned, though!
I concur. If you can proof it on an 08/09 I'm in.
I really hope it fits an '08/'09. I have a few people lined up to test this bar for us though once it's done. If it doesn't end up fitting, we'll have to try to find a local '08/'09 to bring in and fit up an entirely new bar.
Yes #11 looks great. In regards to your comment about the tube in the last photo. Could the mounting tab be more of a flat "L" shape? By doing so you could raise that end of the tubing up a little and still be able to remove the battery panel. Just a thought. ;D
Ohhh, that is an interesting idea. I know we wanted to avoid moving that bracket because, as it is, it flows with the lines of the bike right near the bracket and that bar reaaaally needs to be as low as possible around that body line. The farther we move that bar up, the less protection there is for the lower fairing. I'll take a look at this though and see if we could afford to move it up a bit to allow access to the battery panel.
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#11 looks great!
Still interested in functionality and what kind of tip over protection we will get. Things like: Will the mirrors survive a tip over? Will the short rear bag guards also be needed with new front canyon cage to protect the bags or will the cage product do the job?
Gordon
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#11 looks great!
Still interested in functionality and what kind of tip over protection we will get. Things like: Will the mirrors survive a tip over? Will the short rear bag guards also be needed with new front canyon cage to protect the bags or will the cage product do the job?
Gordon
I think #11 will function great for how the majority of you will use them. It sounds like the majority of you guys are looking for protection for lower speed type tip overs that are typical when doing those "rodeos" and that is precisely what these will do. I believe in a higher speed tip over the mirrors may hit depending on how hard the bike rocks but there are so many variables that can come into play during a crash that it's hard to tell. In a low speed type tip over, I believe these will perform very similar to the Top Blocks where it just comes to rest on that horizontal bar. Also, the rears will definitely be needed to protect the saddle bags. Especially with how close the Canyon Cage is to the fairing of the bike. I don't think there's a set of front guards that exist that also protect the rear of the bike. The Connie is just too long of a bike. With that said, I believe the #11 Canyon Cage working in accordance with a set of small rear sets will offer optimal protection and really protect the bike well.
I'll be sure to get some photos and hopefully some video once we have this bar finalized and do some tilts and tip overs for you guys so you can really see how they'll protect the bike.
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Hey Gordon, could ya do a photo shop of #8 and the latest on an '08? Fer grins and giggles if nothing else.
TIA,
Chet
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I'm late on the thread. Did a quick search of the thread and couldn't find an answer to what I was wondering about (Hwy pegs).
Are you considering incorporating into your design an easy way of mounting highway pegs?
Thx
I had a set of "bars" on my bike, but removed them primarily for two reasons. I didn't like the way the bottom of the bar on the RS of the bike was designed. And, I wasn't able to easily mount a suitable set of hwy pegs on the bars.
BTW, #9 & #11 caught my eye.
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I have to admit that I was losing hope for these based on some of the "intermediate" options, but #11 has brought me back from the brink.
As has been said MANY times by others, I appreciate your willingness to listen to our opinions, concerns and the occasional gripe.
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I'm late on the thread. Did a quick search of the thread and couldn't find an answer to what I was wondering about (Hwy pegs).
Are you considering incorporating into your design an easy way of mounting highway pegs?
Thx
I had a set of "bars" on my bike, but removed them primarily for two reasons. I didn't like the way the bottom of the bar on the RS of the bike was designed. And, I wasn't able to easily mount a suitable set of hwy pegs on the bars.
BTW, #9 & #11 caught my eye.
Yea, I think we're going to end up going with #11.
Highway pegs were discussed somewhere but this thread is so damn long now I'm not sure where it was! We're not planning on including highway pegs with this design but this bar is made of 1" material so you could easily clamp a set of pegs on there. In fact, we sell a set of pegs with 1" clamps for ~$40 depending on what style peg you prefer.
I have to admit that I was losing hope for these based on some of the "intermediate" options, but #11 has brought me back from the brink.
As has been said MANY times by others, I appreciate your willingness to listen to our opinions, concerns and the occasional gripe.
No problem at all! I'm more than happy to work with you guys to get a bar designed that you guys truly like and that works well. Also, I'm glad to hear that the new design has reinvigorated your interest in these bars and I hope it does the same to others who are on the fence!
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Weld'em up and move'em out.
Great design Ryan :)
John
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Great job and thanks for your enthusiasm of working with a user's group to come up with a pleasing design. I'm SOOOO ready to see them painted black against the black bike, getting that silver and green out of the picture. Right, ZG? ::)
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I'm SOOOO ready to see them painted black against the black bike, getting that silver and green out of the picture. Right, ZG? ::)
:thumbs:
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Weld'em up and move'em out.
Great design Ryan :)
John
Will do! I'm assuming that means you like the newest design (#11) the best? It seems like #11 is going to be the winner...
Great job and thanks for your enthusiasm of working with a user's group to come up with a pleasing design. I'm SOOOO ready to see them painted black against the black bike, getting that silver and green out of the picture. Right, ZG? ::)
You're welcome, my man! I am ready to see them painted black as well. They're really going to look great and essentially disappear into the fairings once we have them powder coated.
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Am I able to buy the prototype? Dibs ;D
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Wow this looks good. I had the MC front bars and still have the small rear bars. I just couldn't get past the look of the front bars. This looks much better. Also looks like it would give me lots of possibilities to mount highway pegs. Only 2 questions, when and how much?
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Hey Gordon, could ya do a photo shop of #8 and the latest on an '08? Fer grins and giggles if nothing else.
The upper fairing on the 2008s are so different and the mounting scheme would have to be modified greatly. I don't think you would ever get the 2010-2012 cage to work on a 2008. As I recall the MCE crash bars offered for the 2008 are quite different from the 2010 as well. I think somebody would have to lend MCE a 2008 to work on.
I just did a quick scale job of #11 on this picture and stretched the vertical bar up to the opening in the fairing. #11 does look better than #8 on the 2008. But the vertical bar's angle does not look right and you would not want to cut into the fairing to get the three point mounting.
Gordon
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5246/2008cageb.jpg)
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Am I able to buy the prototype? Dibs ;D
Unfortunately I can't sell you the prototype. We always keep our prototypes with our jigs so we have something to revert to if there's ever an issue. I could sell you a raw, normal-production set and you could pretend it's the original prototype. Lol! Sorry, I couldn't resist!
Wow this looks good. I had the MC front bars and still have the small rear bars. I just couldn't get past the look of the front bars. This looks much better. Also looks like it would give me lots of possibilities to mount highway pegs. Only 2 questions, when and how much?
The prototype should be finalized by tomorrow which is when we'll begin doing a few tilts and tip-over tests. Once we do the tip-overs and make any necessary tweaks we'll send the bar out to our powdercoaters. I'm hoping to have the finished bar back in our facility by early next week. After that we'll begin a normal production run of about 40-50 sets which generally takes approximately 4-6 weeks. So, with everything considered, you're looking at about a month until we have product ready to ship.
The cost of these bars is still being worked on. Unfortunately, we have to wait until all labor and materials are assessed before coming up with firm pricing but I would assume they'll be in the ~$275 range.
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Ryan, thanks for listening to all of the input! I want a set as soon as you guys can get them ready.
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The upper fairing on the 2008s are so different and the mounting scheme would have to be modified greatly. I don't think you would ever get the 2010-2012 cage to work on a 2008. As I recall the MCE crash bars offered for the 2008 are quite different from the 2010 as well. I think somebody would have to lend MCE a 2008 to work on.
I just did a quick scale job of #11 on this picture and stretched the vertical bar up to the opening in the fairing. #11 does look better than #8 on the 2008. But the vertical bar's angle does not look right and you would not want to cut into the fairing to get the three point mounting.
Gordon
If MCE were to do a set for the 08/09 model I would suggest just using the small single bar as in pic 1 below and rotating it to a horizontal position and mounting it where the Top Block ones mount.
Done! Clean and simple and probably even lower cost... 8) :thumbs:
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/fpodskfok.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00194-20110408-1706.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00398-20110713-1749.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00396-20110713-1747.jpg)
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Welp, here is #11 and hopefully the final design! I REALLY dig this design and it looks stellar on the bike. Also, it really goes well with the small rear guards as the radius' really match up and look awesome. I sure as hell hope you guys like this design as much as I do so we can get it finalized and finished!
I am *TOALLY* digging it, Ryan! Best design so far, hands-down (#11). It is a great compromise between protection and design/style. Something absolutely designed specifically for the Concours. I remain really impressed with your patience and your peoples' skills. Still not sure I understand how it would connect at the bottom, but I am sure you have that covered ;)
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The upper fairing on the 2008s are so different and the mounting scheme would have to be modified greatly. I don't think you would ever get the 2010-2012 cage to work on a 2008. As I recall the MCE crash bars offered for the 2008 are quite different from the 2010 as well. I think somebody would have to lend MCE a 2008 to work on.
I just did a quick scale job of #11 on this picture and stretched the vertical bar up to the opening in the fairing. #11 does look better than #8 on the 2008. But the vertical bar's angle does not look right and you would not want to cut into the fairing to get the three point mounting.
Gordon
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5246/2008cageb.jpg)
:'(
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I am *TOALLY* digging it, Ryan! Best design so far, hands-down (#11). It is a great compromise between protection and design/style. Something absolutely designed specifically for the Concours. I remain really impressed with your patience and your peoples' skills. Still not sure I understand how it would connect at the bottom, but I am sure you have that covered ;)
Thanks! Yea, I'm really happy with that final design as well. I think it looks really great on the bike in person, too! I absolutely cannot wait to see what it looks like when it's all painted and pretty! I'll see if I can take some photos tomorrow of the front-lower mounting point and do a more thorough job of explaining it to you guys because I'm sure others are curious about this as well.
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:'(
+1
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If you get a cage that designed for tge 08'-09' put me down for a set.
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I think the last design looks good for the new gen fairing, but it leaves us 08-09 guys wanting something too.
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Ryan, who do we have to lean on at Mama Kaw to get you an 08/09? Is there a rental company in your area that might have one?
@Conrad, Road trip?
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Here is a good picture of my 2011 next to ZG's '09. This really shows the difference in fairings.
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/SideBySide.jpg)
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Here is a good picture of my 2011 next to ZG's '09. This really shows the difference in fairings.
Yeah, there really is a huge difference in the two. There are lots of subtle differences between the 1st and 2nd gen, but the front fairings are absolutely the most noticeable difference (and yes, I do think the 2nd gen ones are much more attractive, but that is a different topic :P ).
A different design is going to be needed for the 1st gen. Unfortunately, it appears that to have a similar 3 point mounting, the fairing would have to be cut in at least one location.
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That kinda shows why I like #8 the best. I for one wouldn't be opposed to cutting the fairing, function over form and all that good stuff, when I'm done with her all she would be good for is scrap and maybe a farkle or three ;)
Thanks Gordon, that really does a good job shwoing the differance in the two.
Chet
The upper fairing on the 2008s are so different and the mounting scheme would have to be modified greatly. I don't think you would ever get the 2010-2012 cage to work on a 2008. As I recall the MCE crash bars offered for the 2008 are quite different from the 2010 as well. I think somebody would have to lend MCE a 2008 to work on.
I just did a quick scale job of #11 on this picture and stretched the vertical bar up to the opening in the fairing. #11 does look better than #8 on the 2008. But the vertical bar's angle does not look right and you would not want to cut into the fairing to get the three point mounting.
Gordon
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5246/2008cageb.jpg)
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I think you got a winner.
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~$275 sounds good.
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snip...
@Conrad, Road trip?
When can you be ready?
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Here is a good picture of my 2011 next to ZG's '09. This really shows the difference in fairings.
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/SideBySide.jpg)
It's kinda hard for me to see the difference since that MASSIVE potato launcher keeps drawing mine eyes away from the fairing. :o
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Did find that picture to be extremely slow loading?
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Looking good! I'll be lined up for a set of raw fronts and rears!
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Did find that picture to be extremely slow loading?
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :battle:
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Did find that picture to be extremely slow loading?
:thumbs:
:rotflmao:
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Looking good! I'll be lined up for a seat of raw fronts and rears!
:-X
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Now that there is a final design its time for a drop test. I would love to see another youtube video of the bars protecting the bike. If you have to ease it down to the ground incase the mirror might hit that is the test that determins the crashability of these bars. OUTSTANDING design and I wish that we can pre order so once the first batch is done you can just ship them out to us. If that is possible let us know please. I also wonder is the 275 just for the front or is that the package price of front and saddle bag bars. :-!
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:-X
:rotflmao:
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Ryan, who do we have to lean on at Mama Kaw to get you an 08/09? Is there a rental company in your area that might have one?
@Conrad, Road trip?
The owner here has a connect at Kawasaki Corporate but I can't remember the gentlemans name. I know he's pretty far up the food chain though so I'm not sure he'd appreciate us handing out his email. No offense to you guys at all but giving out emails to people we work with to have you "lean on them" is a bit of a dick move on our part. I think our best bet is to have the owner here call his buddy down there and ask him if we can use the bike just like we've done in the past. Our guy at Kawasaki is super nice and borrowing bikes has never been an issue before as long as they have one there for us to borrow. So, it's not so much an issue of needing to talk him into letting us use it as it is just hoping they have one there for us!
If you guys wanted to road trip out here though, that'd be awesome!
Yeah, there really is a huge difference in the two. There are lots of subtle differences between the 1st and 2nd gen, but the front fairings are absolutely the most noticeable difference (and yes, I do think the 2nd gen ones are much more attractive, but that is a different topic :P ).
A different design is going to be needed for the 1st gen. Unfortunately, it appears that to have a similar 3 point mounting, the fairing would have to be cut in at least one location.
This is true. I also believe a different design is going to be needed for the 1st generation Connies. The Canyon Cage for the 2010-2012 we've built MAY fit but it wouldn't flow with the lines of the bike very well and there may be some fairing modification required. I'm hoping we can find an '08 somewhere local so we can just fit up an entirely new application. Now that we have the basic design figured out it wouldn't take long to adapt it to the 2008-2009 model.
I think you got a winner.
I sure hope so!
Now that there is a final design its time for a drop test. I would love to see another youtube video of the bars protecting the bike. If you have to ease it down to the ground incase the mirror might hit that is the test that determins the crashability of these bars. OUTSTANDING design and I wish that we can pre order so once the first batch is done you can just ship them out to us. If that is possible let us know please. I also wonder is the 275 just for the front or is that the package price of front and saddle bag bars. :-!
We're definitely getting close to doing tilt and tip-over testing and you can be sure that I'll be taking photos and video for you guys! So stay tuned for that! I really think this design is going to protect the bike well but it's hard to say for sure until we begin doing the drop testing. I'm hoping I can have some footage of tip-overs for you guys as early as this afternoon. I'm trying to get the bar finished and ready to send to our powder coaters by days end so it'll be ready for pickup on Monday, Tuesday at the very latest.
Once the bar is powder coated and we've taken photos for the website and everything I'll start a new, separate thread for a group buy. That way you guys can see the finished product before signing up for a set. I think this would be a good way to go about it because then you guys can get your preorders in while the bars are making their way through our production process. That way, as soon as they're done I can begin shipping them out to you guys! Also, that $275 estimated price is for the Canyon Cage only. That price does not include the small rears. However, keep in mind that those of you who participate in the group buy will get a discount based on how many people participate just like the last group buy we did. Although, I'm not quite sure how much the discount will be for as of yet. I'll have to wait until all material and labor has been assessed and I have a firm MSRP price set first. Also, for those of you interested in the small rears, they will be available through the Canyon Cage Group Buy so if you're thinking of buying them that would be the time to do so!
Anyhow, stay tuned for drop testing video and keep your eyes peeled for the Group Buy thread once these bars are done!
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Snip...
The owner here has a connect at Kawasaki Corporate but I can't remember the gentlemans name. I know he's pretty far up the food chain though so I'm not sure he'd appreciate us handing out his email. No offense to you guys at all but giving out emails to people we work with to have you "lean on them" is a bit of a dick move on our part. I think our best bet is to have the owner here call his buddy down there and ask him if we can use the bike just like we've done in the past. Our guy at Kawasaki is super nice and borrowing bikes has never been an issue before as long as they have one there for us to borrow. So, it's not so much an issue of needing to talk him into letting us use it as it is just hoping they have one there for us!
Please tell me that his name isn't Mark? :o
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Please tell me that his name isn't Mark? :o
Naw, it isn't Mark. Do you know Mark at Kawi Corporate?
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Naw, it isn't Mark. Do you know Mark at Kawi Corporate?
I don't but some here do and they wish that they didn't.
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I don't but some here do and they wish that they didn't.
Ahhh, that's unfortunate. Yea, our guy down there isn't Mark.
I do have some disappointing news, though. Our lead welder who has been working on this project has the day off! :-\ I'm not sure why he'd have a day off in the middle of a project like this but he does. So, it seems like we may need to wait to do some drop testing. Although, I'm going to see if I can pull one of our other welders off of a separate project so we can get this bar finished up because we're running out of time! I know you guys are really looking forward to some drop videos though so I'm going to do what I can! I'd really like to get drop footage before the weekend so you guys have plenty to discuss while we're closed over the weekend! Stay tuned!
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What's the MSRP on the small rear bars?
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What's the MSRP on the small rear bars?
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7206.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7206.0)
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What's the MSRP on the small rear bars?
Normal MSRP for the small rears is $175. Although, if you participate in the upcoming Canyon Cage Group Buy you may be able to get a bit of a discount.
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Ahhh, that's unfortunate. Yea, our guy down there isn't Mark.
I do have some disappointing news, though. Our lead welder who has been working on this project has the day off! :-\ I'm not sure why he'd have a day off in the middle of a project like this but he does. So, it seems like we may need to wait to do some drop testing. Although, I'm going to see if I can pull one of our other welders off of a separate project so we can get this bar finished up because we're running out of time! I know you guys are really looking forward to some drop videos though so I'm going to do what I can! I'd really like to get drop footage before the weekend so you guys have plenty to discuss while we're closed over the weekend! Stay tuned!
Say what? I don't think that any of us authorized his day off did we?
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Say what? I don't think that any of us authorized his day off did we?
Psh, I know I sure as hell didn't! Lol!
We just tipped the bike over and I got some interesting photos for you guys. I just need a few minutes to resize and upload them. ;D
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We just tipped the bike over and I got some interesting photos for you guys. I just need a few minutes to resize and upload them. ;D
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kwjweiww.gif)
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Psh, I know I sure as hell didn't! Lol!
We just tipped the bike over and I got some interesting photos for you guys. I just need a few minutes to resize and upload them. ;D
Well, I hope they work OK because the paint from Colorite is EXPENSIVE!!! :)
I'm interested in seeing what you come up with for the 2007 - 2009 bikes...
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I'm not going to read back through all these pages, who's donor bike is that anyway?
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I keep refreshing this thread to see the drop pics like I'm trying to buy concert tickets. Come on already!! :popcorn:
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Well, we've entered the stage of tipping the bike over and making any final changes to the Canyon Cage! First, we tilted the bike over and let it come to rest on the guards to see where the lower fairing was in relation to the ground and the guards themselves. This position is where the bike is going to come to rest during most low-speed type tip overs where the rider has time to get their feet on the ground while the bike is going over.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0154.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0158.jpg)
As you can see the lower-front portion of the bar is slightly off the ground when the rear guards hit. We're going to make a few minor changes so both bars hit simultaneously. This will lessen the force that each guard must withstand during a tip-over which will make the guards less likely to bend.
Now that we know the bars will protect the bike in super low speed type tip-overs, we wanted to see how the guards would work during a harder spill where the bike "rocks" over that initial impact point. Pictured below is the bike completely on its side. As you can see, the Canyon Cage holds the entire bike up off the ground and the only part to even come close to the ground would be the mirrors which would take a hit in a harder spill like this anyway.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0160.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0162.jpg)
I'm sorry the photo is a bit blurry. I'll get a few more photos once we make the aforementioned changes and tilt the bike over again. As you can see, though, these bars really do offer a great amount of protection. In fact, the second set of photos are a good testament as to why I believe our current Canyon Cage design is better than the design of the Top Blocks. With the Top Blocks, the entire upper portion of the fairing would be in jeopardy if you "rocked" the bike all the way over as we've done in the second set of photos. Although, that's a discussion for another thread.
Now that we've seen how the bars will hit I'm hoping we can go ahead with drop testing once we make the few changes to the lower-front portion of the Canyon Cage. It looks like these bars are really going to hold up well, though!
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(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0158.jpg)
Is it just me or the anlge of the pic, but did the front bars not even touch the ground in this pic? Just the rear bars keeping her off the ground?? ???
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Is it possible to try it without the MCE rear bars and Kawi rear bags on?? To see what touches first?? :-\
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Is it just me or the anlge of the pic, but did the front bars not even touch the ground in this pic? Just the rear bars keeping her off the ground?? ???
No Einstein, it's not just you... :-*
"As you can see the lower-front portion of the bar is slightly off the ground when the rear guards hit. We're going to make a few minor changes so both bars hit simultaneously. This will lessen the force that each guard must withstand during a tip-over which will make the guards less likely to bend."
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Is it just me or the angle of the pic, but did the front bars not even touch the ground in this pic? Just the rear bars keeping her off the ground?? ???
That's correct. The front-lower portion of the Canyon Cages aren't touching the ground in this photo. As pictured, the rear guard and the swiveled-up peg are holding the bike up. That's why we need to make the change to the lower portion of the Canyon Cage so the cage and the rear guard hits the ground at the same time and hold the bike up.
Is it possible to try it without the MCE rear bars and Kawi rear bags on?? To see what touches first?? :-\
I suppose we could. I could tell you, though, that without our rear guards and the bags on there the peg would hit first and bend up, then the Canyon Cage would hit and the bike would rock over onto the Canyon Cage and end up looking like the second set of photos. As it is, no part of the fairing hits the ground before the Canyon Cage does so removing the rear guards and bags wouldn't do much to change that spatial relationship.
No Einstein, it's not just you... :-*
"As you can see the lower-front portion of the bar is slightly off the ground when the rear guards hit. We're going to make a few minor changes so both bars hit simultaneously. This will lessen the force that each guard must withstand during a tip-over which will make the guards less likely to bend."
Awwww! Play nice, Conrad!
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No Einstein, it's not just you... :-*
"As you can see the lower-front portion of the bar is slightly off the ground when the rear guards hit. We're going to make a few minor changes so both bars hit simultaneously. This will lessen the force that each guard must withstand during a tip-over which will make the guards less likely to bend."
Doh, my bad! :nuts:
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Snip...
Awwww! Play nice, Conrad!
ZG knows that I was just messin with him, he'll hand it right back to me at some point. It might take him a while though since he rides a black bike.
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ZG knows that I was just messin with him, he'll hand it right back to me at some point. It might take him a while though since he rides a black bike.
Hahahahaha oh okay! I'm still a noobie to these forums so I'm not really sure who knows one another and who doesn't!
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ZG knows that I was just messin with him, he'll hand it right back to me at some point. It might take him a while though since he rides owns a black bike.
FIFY ;D
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Hahahahaha oh okay! I'm still a noobie to these forums so I'm not really sure who knows one another and who doesn't!
You're doing great for a newbie Ryan. Look at your post count, you have more posts than some guys who've been here for years. :o
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You mean since May of last year, don't you? ;)
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Hahahahaha oh okay! I'm still a noobie to these forums so I'm not really sure who knows one another and who doesn't!
'Round these parts it becomes obvious pretty quick who the trolls are, they're the ones getting piled on by everyone else, well, other then bike color choice, we just pick on ZG (Jay) because we love him ;D Hopefully his battery isn't dead so we can meet up this weekend ;)
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You mean since May of last year, don't you? ;)
Well, yeah. But those guys that I'm talking about had zero post counts even BC*
*Before Crash
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'Round these parts it becomes obvious pretty quick who the trolls are, they're the ones getting piled on by everyone else, well, other then bike color choice, we just pick on ZG (Jay) because we love him ;D Hopefully his battery isn't dead so we can meet up this weekend ;)
If he bought a set of tools we might let up a little, but it's just to much fun to stop.
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Well, yeah. But those guys that I'm talking about had zero post counts even BC*
*Before Crash
;D
By the way, I ordered new set of gear. Your CC is coming in handy.... :P
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;D
By the way, I ordered new set of gear. Your CC is coming in handy.... :P
I hope that you bought the top of the line? While you're at it, get your wife something nice too.
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that pic of the connie all the way on her side shows how big of a girl she is.
Ryan, i think you guys have a pretty cool product on your hands. i'm definitely in for a set front and back when you get the front ready.
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I think the potato launcher pulled her over ;D
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that pic of the connie all the way on her side shows how big of a girl she is.
Ryan, i think you guys have a pretty cool product on your hands. i'm definitely in for a set front and back when you get the front ready.
If you think that she looks big in that pic, just wait till you're looking at your own C14 laying on her side in front of you. She looks like a whale then. Don't ask me how I know... :'(
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ZG knows that I was just messin with him, he'll hand it right back to me at some point. It might take him a while though since he rides a black bike.
'Round these parts it becomes obvious pretty quick who the trolls are, they're the ones getting piled on by everyone else, well, other then bike color choice, we just pick on ZG (Jay) because we love him ;D Hopefully his battery isn't dead so we can meet up this weekend ;)
If he bought a set of tools we might let up a little, but it's just to much fun to stop.
:) :grouphug:
Now stop loving on me, there's plenty of me to go around... :-[ ;) :chugbeer:
Come on Sparky, get your guys back on track mod, back to the cage design and tipping Connie's over guys... ;D
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Why, do you think you're special?
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As you can see the lower-front portion of the bar is slightly off the ground when the rear guards hit. We're going to make a few minor changes so both bars hit simultaneously.
Interesting, I wonder what those changes will be :) Looks like the cage either has to go down lower or project off the bike more. Either change could really mess with the aesthetics. Of course, there is no point in having them at all if they don't work right!
In fact, the second set of photos are a good testament as to why I believe our current Canyon Cage design is better than the design of the Top Blocks. With the Top Blocks, the entire upper portion of the fairing would be in jeopardy if you "rocked" the bike all the way over as we've done in the second set of photos. Although, that's a discussion for another thread.
Actually, it is something I already pointed out at least a few times in other threads ::) Nice to see someone validating what I was saying!
Now that we've seen how the bars will hit I'm hoping we can go ahead with drop testing once we make the few changes to the lower-front portion of the Canyon Cage. It looks like these bars are really going to hold up well, though!
The suspense is killing us! I couldn't wait to get home from work today so I could see the progress :) Thanks for the pics and updates.
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Why, do you think you're special?
Not as special as you sir... ;) (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/martini-drinking-emoticon.gif)
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Interesting, I wonder what those changes will be :) Looks like the cage either has to go down lower or project off the bike more. Either change could really mess with the aesthetics. Of course, there is no point in having them at all if they don't work right!
The suspense is killing us! I couldn't wait to get home from work today so I could see the progress :) Thanks for the pics and updates.
Hahahaha well, I'm glad this is an interesting thread that you guys are enjoying following! I'm certainly enjoying building these bars and collaborating with all of you so I'm happy to hear you're enjoying it as well!
I agree that any minor changes could really mess with aesthetics but I'm doing my best to incorporate these changes with as little change to the looks of the bar as possible. I believe we're going to try to simply extend the bar out roughly 5/8". That's really all the room we need. If the bar remains precisely as it is, just moved out slightly, I think we should be okay as far as aesthetics are concerned. I know you guys would like to keep these as close to the fairings as possible but there's no point in protection if it doesn't protect the way it should. Also, they're so close to the fairings as it is that we have plenty of room to play around with. I don't think moving the bar out 5/8" is enough to really destroy the current good looks of the bar but that's just one mans opinion. It's difficult to tell what it's going to do to the looks until the bar is actually tacked into place. Hopefully they have those changes done shortly so I can snap a few more photos and then we can all see how it looks!
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Now stop loving on me, there's plenty of me to go around... :-[ ;) :chugbeer:
We know J, we know.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/fkjsdfiew.jpg)
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(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0154.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0158.jpg)
If you guys will recall my MCE rears and GSG slider thread with the plywood, this is the same thing that was going on when the ply wouldn't touch the GSG while the ply was touching the MCE rear and both tires.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7939.msg95774#msg95774 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7939.msg95774#msg95774)
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We know J, we know.
:rotflmao: :thumbs:
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If you guys will recall my MCE rears and GSG slider thread with the plywood, this is the same thing that was going on when the ply wouldn't touch the GSG while the ply was touching the MCE rear and both tires.
Yep, I remembered it immediately. The difference is that this design will be corrected, where the GSG is stuck at what it is...
We definitely don't want the bike to slam onto the folded up peg, like it would do with no protection (or improper protection). I do find it fascinating that the bike can lay over and just sit on the rear bar and the peg, as illustrated by Ryan's photos, with nothing else touching :) Without that rear bar, it would certainly crunch much more stuff.
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If you guys will recall my MCE rears and GSG slider thread with the plywood, this is the same thing that was going on when the ply wouldn't touch the GSG while the ply was touching the MCE rear and both tires.
I definitely recall that thread, Conrad. The one bad thing about this is the fact that the rear bars will take a harder hit than they really should when the bike goes over due to the GSGs not sharing the initial thud. I'm hoping with the changes we're making to the Canyon Cage that, in a tip-over, both the front and rear guards will hit simultaneously as to reduce the force each piece has to withstand as much as possible.
That's really the only issue these Canyon Cages have as of right now. I really like the way they hold up when the bike rocks over though; It essentially supports the entire weight of the bike along with the small rear guards while keeping the fairings off the ground. It'll be interesting to see how they do during an actual drop test. I'm sorry we couldn't get the drop testing done today, though. I know you guys are really eager to see that! It's always better to take these things slow and make sure everything is done properly before rushing into drop testing, though. Especially when you're working on a loaned bike!
We definitely don't want the bike to slam onto the folded up peg, like it would do with no protection (or improper protection). I do find it fascinating that the bike can lay over and just sit on the rear bar and the peg, as illustrated by Ryan's photos, with nothing else touching :) Without that rear bar, it would certainly crunch stuff.
Yea, we don't want the bike to slam onto the folded up peg but we do want the peg to be the first thing to touch the ground. The peg basically acts as an alarm system to tell you you're getting too far over. In a perfect world, when the bike goes over (well, I suppose the bike wouldn't be going over in a perfect world but back to the point), the peg hits and begins folding up and before it reaches the fold limit the bars hit the ground and save the bike! Another good reason for the pegs touching first is the fact that you know you're safe on tight turns. If your pegs aren't touching yet, you know you're nowhere close to having the bar touch.
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It's always better to take these things slow and make sure everything is done properly before rushing into drop testing, though. Especially when you're working on a loaned bike!
+1!
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Surely if with such guards when the motorcycle is lying on the LEFT side of the shift pedal is broken.
MC show what you say.
MGvalerio. 8)
Sicuramente se con dette guardie se la moto viene adagiata sul lato SINISTRO il pedale del cambio si rompe.
MC puoi mostrare ciò che affermo.
MGvalerio. 8)
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Surely if with such guards, when the motorcycle is lying tilted on the LEFT side of the shift pedal is broken will break
You are probably right, but adjustments are needed in the design, which they promise. Stay tuned for more updates!
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Well, my drop happened on the left side and I didn't care, I was in the arms of a grieving mother. Everytime I see those scratches I think of SGT Anthoney Fine, RIP.
Anyway, the shifter did hit and bent a tad, nothing serious, but I did pull it off a few thousand miles later and straighten it out.
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Surely if with such guards when the motorcycle is lying on the LEFT side of the shift pedal is broken.
MC show what you say.
This is incorrect. At least as far as I can currently tell. The shifter is in approximately the same position as the brake pedal on the right side and that wasn't close to touching when the bike was tipped over because the Canyon Cages hold the bike up juuust far enough. However, the next time we tip the bike over I'll have them do it to the left and I'll be sure to get some photos of the spatial relationship between the shifter and the ground so you can see what I mean.
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This is incorrect. At least as far as I can currently tell. The shifter is in approximately the same position as the brake pedal on the right side and that wasn't close to touching when the bike was tipped over because the Canyon Cages hold the bike up juuust far enough. However, the next time we tip the bike over I'll have them do it to the left and I'll be sure to get some photos of the spatial relationship between the shifter and the ground so you can see what I mean.
I think he was meaning "tilted over", not rolled over flat on the side (translation issues). In your tip-over postings, you said it was resting on the rear bar and the folded up peg. If that were the case on the left side, I do believe it would at least bend, if not break the shifter. Of course, this is all moot because the design needs tweaking anyway.... and of course you will test both sides.
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I think he was meaning "tilted over", not rolled over flat on the side (translation issues). In your tip-over postings, you said it was resting on the rear bar and the folded up peg. If that were the case on the left side, I do believe it would at least bend, if not break the shifter. Of course, this is all moot because the design needs tweaking anyway.... and of course you will test both sides.
Ahhhh, okay, I get what he was saying now. That's interesting though because on the right side the brake pedal is pretty much in the same position as the shifter on the other side but the brake wasn't touching the ground. But, yea, this doesn't really matter as the design is being tweaked anyhow. Either way, I'll be sure to have them tilt the bike over to the opposite side so I can get some photos of the spatial relationship between the shifter and the ground for you guys who are worried about bending the shifter. Also, we will definitely be testing both sides!
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I am kinda glad I asked for drop photos. This showed a slight design flaw that can be fixed prior to customer purchase. I dont claim sole responsibility for finding the contact point issue, just saying it helps to see a picture. And can I purchase the sadle bag crash bars now and do I need the short or the police version? I figure get some protection on there stat. ;D Thanks again for the pictures. I am super stoked to get these on my Connie. I am just going to throw this out ther but have you thought of a quick disconnect for the sadle bag bars? This way if you decide to ride with out bags you can just pop them off and ride with just the Canyon Cage. And can we see pics of just the Canyon Cage drop test? I hope I am not asking to many questions.
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I think these tipover bars (front and back) would be more visually appealing if they were painted to match the fairing and saddlebags. I recall that Ryan mentioned in an earlier post that it is not feasible for MC to paint-to-match due to the many color options, but that the bars would be available to buy as bare metal. With this in mind, one option would be to order bare bars and apply Colorite base, primer, paint and clearcoat (e.g., 2010 Neptune blue, http://www.colorrite.com/matrix-colors.cfm?CFID=1453285&CFTOKEN=14812620 (http://www.colorrite.com/matrix-colors.cfm?CFID=1453285&CFTOKEN=14812620)). Are there any special considerations when it comes to painting bare metal? Or is this just a bad idea because powder coating / chrome are better than paint for this application?
Ryan - do you anticipate that the price will be lower for bare-metal bars (no powder coating or chrome)?
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I definitely recall that thread, Conrad. The one bad thing about this is the fact that the rear bars will take a harder hit than they really should when the bike goes over due to the GSGs not sharing the initial thud. I'm hoping with the changes we're making to the Canyon Cage that, in a tip-over, both the front and rear guards will hit simultaneously as to reduce the force each piece has to withstand as much as possible.
I wasn't saying that the GSG was going to help save the bike as well as your new bars. I didn't lay my bike down so I couldn't tell exacty how well, or not, the GSG and the MCE rears would work together. But now I have a better idea. I'll be buying a set of your new bars once they get sorted out for a 08/09.
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Is it time to set up a poll to see how many want first gen or second gen bars?
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Is it time to set up a poll to see how many want first gen or second gen bars?
I think that it is.
The problem is that the new gen bikes might be more prone to low speed drops cuz as we ALL know, the 08/09 bikes spend WAY less time going slow. 8)
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C, are you go to venture over to the dark side again to see if there's any interest? ;)
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C, are you go to venture over to the dark side again to see if there's any interest? ;)
Not a chance. I can get the cold shoulder elsewhere thank you.
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::)
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That's the way to keep it alive....just hold that grudge near to your heart until your heart is cold and black... LOL
It's been cross posted.
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Thanks.
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That's the way to keep it alive....just hold that grudge near to your heart until your heart is cold and black... LOL
It's been cross posted.
I'm not holding any grudges but I'm not going to go out of my way to do any more favors either...
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That's the way to keep it alive....just hold that grudge near to your heart until your heart is cold and black... LOL
Conrad's heart was in the right place. He tried. It didn't go anywhere.
I don't have a heart, so no cold and black for me.
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LOL Don't make any difference to me. I just think it's more about the people than the places. Sure, some of the people are...challenging. :) IIWII. Me, I'm just hoping this exercise is a great experience for the manufacturer and that it really encourages people to buy the product since they've had input. I know I'm waiting patiently. Been riding nervous for 2 years. LOL
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Well I am gald I don't have to pick her up. At least I got to see her on her side. I was curious to how see looked. Kissing the floor.
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"ALL know, the 08/09 bikes spend WAY less time going slow. "
Your right , because the heat coming off the motor will KILL you :'(
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Will the bars have a rotisserie option for the 08-09 bikes so you can cook your dinner while you ride? ;D
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OUCH, OUCH, OUCH.
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:rotflmao:
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Will the bars have a rotisserie option for the 08-09 bikes so you can cook your dinner while you ride? ;D
Yup, and we'll have dinner ready when you catch up with us.
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Feh....I sent my ECU to Guhl and mine now goes to 11.....
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I am kinda glad I asked for drop photos. This showed a slight design flaw that can be fixed prior to customer purchase. I dont claim sole responsibility for finding the contact point issue, just saying it helps to see a picture. And can I purchase the sadle bag crash bars now and do I need the short or the police version? I figure get some protection on there stat. ;D Thanks again for the pictures. I am super stoked to get these on my Connie. I am just going to throw this out ther but have you thought of a quick disconnect for the sadle bag bars? This way if you decide to ride with out bags you can just pop them off and ride with just the Canyon Cage. And can we see pics of just the Canyon Cage drop test? I hope I am not asking to many questions.
Naw, you're not asking too many questions! You could purchase a set of rear guards now if you want to. If I were you though, I'd probably wait until we do the Canyon Cage Group Buy and purchase it then so you can take advantage of the discount. I'll start a new thread for the Group Buy and begin taking orders in a week or so. I'd probably just go with the small rear version, though. The large rear version was designed specifically for law enforcement and offers more room to mount lights, antennae, etc. without offering much extra protection. The small rear guards are already so easy to install that a quick release is a bit unnecessary. It'd be nice to be able to pull the guards off within seconds but cotter pin style designs tend to end up looking chinsy and also weaken the bar. The rear guards only take a few moments to put on and take off as it is anyhow.
It seems like I'm getting a few requests to show photos of the Canyon Cage tip over without the rear bags or guards so come Monday I'll be sure to get some photos of this for you guys.
I think these tipover bars (front and back) would be more visually appealing if they were painted to match the fairing and saddlebags. I recall that Ryan mentioned in an earlier post that it is not feasible for MC to paint-to-match due to the many color options, but that the bars would be available to buy as bare metal. With this in mind, one option would be to order bare bars and apply Colorite base, primer, paint and clearcoat (e.g., 2010 Neptune blue, http://www.colorrite.com/matrix-colors.cfm?CFID=1453285&CFTOKEN=14812620 (http://www.colorrite.com/matrix-colors.cfm?CFID=1453285&CFTOKEN=14812620)). Are there any special considerations when it comes to painting bare metal? Or is this just a bad idea because powder coating / chrome are better than paint for this application?
Ryan - do you anticipate that the price will be lower for bare-metal bars (no powder coating or chrome)?
Y'know that's a good question. I don't believe painting these bars is a bad idea, by any means. You may just want to make sure you have a decent base layer so the paint holds well. I think we use the black powdercoat and chrome merely because that's just what we've always done. I do know that powdercoating is a tough finish and holds up well to weather and such so that's probably part of the reason we chose it initially. If you want to buy a raw set and have it painted to match I don't think there should be any issue with that though. As far as pricing goes, we generally just charge the same amount for raw, chromed, or powdercoated.
Me, I'm just hoping this exercise is a great experience for the manufacturer and that it really encourages people to buy the product since they've had input. I know I'm waiting patiently. Been riding nervous for 2 years. LOL
It has been a great experience for all of us over here! All of us in the office are really enjoying the collaboration and I think it's going to help us design and manufacture a truly awesome product that I hope you guys truly enjoy!
Will the bars have a rotisserie option for the 08-09 bikes so you can cook your dinner while you ride? ;D
LOL!
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Back on the grind today! We're working on getting the final touches finished up on these bars and then hopefully we'll do a few more tip overs to test where the bars hit again. When we do this, I'll be sure to get photos of both sides so you guys can see that the shifter is indeed safe when tipping over to the left side. Anything else you guys wanted me to take a closer look at for you while the bike is on its side? Aside from a straight drop test, that is. I know you guys are still waiting for that but we need the bars to be finalized before we do the drop testing!
Also, I'm not sure if I mentioned this previously but we found a 2009 to fit up once this bike is done! So, those of you with the earlier generation need not worry! You may have to wait a bit while we get the 2010-2012 finished up but we'll be starting on the 2008-2009 model as soon as we finish this bar. That way, people with either generation can get a properly fitting, aesthetically pleasing Canyon Cage and nobody will feel left out!
Now, I'm just trying to figure out how and when to do the Group Buy. I'm not sure I want to wait until the 2008-2009 bars are totally done before starting the Group Buy as that's going to be at least 6-8 weeks from now. I may just begin the Group Buy when we finish the 2010-2012 model because the bars for the 2008-2009 will be very similar, just altered slightly to allow for mounting on the earlier generation. Then, we can ship the 2010-2012s when they're done coming through production and the 2008-2009s when they're done coming through production 3-4 weeks after that.
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how about video of you all setting it on it's side. I know the drop video will come later, but the video lets us see how things hit as its going down slowly.
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'08/09 :thumbs: :chugbeer: :hail:
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how about video of you all setting it on it's side. I know the drop video will come later, but the video lets us see how things hit as its going down slowly.
I may be able to arrange that for you guys! At least it'll be something to keep you guys busy until we're ready for true drop testing!
'08/09 :thumbs: :chugbeer: :hail:
YESSS! I'm happy we finally found a local 2009 to use as I know there are a bunch of you out there with the earlier generation that want this type of protection for your bike!
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'08/09 :thumbs: :chugbeer: :hail:
+1!
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With only the Canyon Cage and bags off does it still protect everything?
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Back on the grind today! We're working on getting the final touches finished up on these bars and then hopefully we'll do a few more tip overs to test where the bars hit again. When we do this, I'll be sure to get photos of both sides so you guys can see that the shifter is indeed safe when tipping over to the left side. Anything else you guys wanted me to take a closer look at for you while the bike is on its side? Aside from a straight drop test, that is. I know you guys are still waiting for that but we need the bars to be finalized before we do the drop testing!
Also, I'm not sure if I mentioned this previously but we found a 2009 to fit up once this bike is done! So, those of you with the earlier generation need not worry! You may have to wait a bit while we get the 2010-2012 finished up but we'll be starting on the 2008-2009 model as soon as we finish this bar. That way, people with either generation can get a properly fitting, aesthetically pleasing Canyon Cage and nobody will feel left out!
Now, I'm just trying to figure out how and when to do the Group Buy. I'm not sure I want to wait until the 2008-2009 bars are totally done before starting the Group Buy as that's going to be at least 6-8 weeks from now. I may just begin the Group Buy when we finish the 2010-2012 model because the bars for the 2008-2009 will be very similar, just altered slightly to allow for mounting on the earlier generation. Then, we can ship the 2010-2012s when they're done coming through production and the 2008-2009s when they're done coming through production 3-4 weeks after that.
I'm ready for some right now...:)
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With only the Canyon Cage and bags off does it still protect everything?
That's a good question. I want to say it would but we've never done that type of testing. I know that with the saddle bags on and no rear guards the saddle bags will take a hit. However, if you remove them, I'm nearly sure that the Canyon Cage would hold the bike up far enough as to keep the rear end from hitting but we just don't know for sure. When we get the bike ready to tip over today, we'll remove the rear bags and see! I'll be sure to snap some photos of this for you guys.
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Wow you guys are awesome its a quick turn around time to answer questions. Thanks abunch.
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He's on the internet at work like most of the rest of us!!! LOL
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He's on the internet at work like most of the rest of us!!! LOL
But he's actually doing work related stuff, unlike most of the rest of us. ;D
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Just think if we all worked with motorcycle stuff we might work a little more :o
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Wow you guys are awesome its a quick turn around time to answer questions. Thanks abunch.
No problem! When I'm not out back overseeing the work being done on the Concours I'm up in the front office answering the phones, helping customers, taking care of any IT issues, doing various "market research", as well as my normal day-to-day Safety Manager duties. The good thing about this though is the fact that most of it has to be done on the computer which gives me a good opportunity to reply to all of you guys in a timely manner!
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I'm not sure I want to wait until the 2008-2009 bars are totally done before starting the Group Buy as that's going to be at least 6-8 weeks from now. I may just begin the Group Buy when we finish the 2010-2012 model
+1 No need to keep people waiting!
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+1 No need to keep people waiting!
Precisely! Also, this way, people with the 2008-2009 model can get in on the Group Buy but their bars just won't ship until they're done going through production! I think this would be the best way to do the Group Buy so everyone, regardless of generation, can get in on the savings!
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Just as long as we get to see how they look and perform on the 08/09s beforehand.
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Just as long as we get to see how they look and perform on the 08/09s beforehand.
For sure! Timing is going to be a bit tricky and the Group Buy will be started before the 2008-2009 bars will be done but I'm going to allow it to run long enough that we get the 2008/2009 bars designed before the Group Buy ends. That way you guys can at least see them before placing the order. You can expect them to perform precisely like the bars for the 2010-2012, though. However, we'll be going through the same process for the 2008/2009s as we did with the 2010-2012 bikes so you guys will be able to keep up with the process and progress.
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Ship the first set to Conrad so we can see him do the right side centerstand thing. ::)
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Ship the first set to Conrad so we can see him do the right side centerstand thing. ::)
HAH!!!
:o
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Ship the first set to Conrad so we can see him do the right side centerstand thing. ::)
LOL!!!!!!
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Pictures ... :popcorn:
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Ship the first set to Conrad so we can see him do the right side centerstand thing. ::)
I like the way you think Gary. :)
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I cannot wait for the 08'-09' bars!!""
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I think you should run a second group buy for the 08/09 bars when they are done. You may also pick up some guys that missed the 10/12 buy too.
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Well, I'd send a check today for a cage that won't be ready for a coupla monyhs, if nothing else then the superior support we have been witnessing since the start of this thread. I did the same for my AreaP full. Worth the wait. I do hope the 1st gen bars follow the lines of version #8, but, short of bathroom bars I'm willing to trust Ryans judgement. I haven't decided if I will get a set for the rear as I only/generally ride with them on when I'm touring. I figure a drop at speed means major damage regardless of what she's wearing for protection.
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A quick comment about the rear bars.
I had a lady last week to hit me from the side. All thou this was still just a minor tap (she had slammed on her breakes and only pushed me about 6" sidewase) and I didn't go down. The rear bar kept her bumper from crushing my leg between it and my bike. It also protected my bag which I'm 100% confidant that it would have been damaged if the rear bar wasn't there.
I guess my point is ..... the bars do more than just protect the bike if/when it goes over. They protect the rider as well. ;)
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Well, I'd send a check today for a cage that won't be ready for a coupla monyhs, if nothing else then the superior support we have been witnessing since the start of this thread. I did the same for my AreaP full. Worth the wait. I do hope the 1st gen bars follow the lines of version #8, but, short of bathroom bars I'm willing to trust Ryans judgement. I haven't decided if I will get a set for the rear as I only/generally ride with them on when I'm touring. I figure a drop at speed means major damage regardless of what she's wearing for protection.
The backs are extremely easy to install/remove.
Too true. But they will give vital time for separation between me and the 650 pound chunk of metal and plastic that used to be my motorcycle. :)
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Pope, Pink, good thoughts to ponder, thanks :)
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I think you should run a second group buy for the 08/09 bars when they are done. You may also pick up some guys that missed the 10/12 buy too.
I was thinking about that at first but they'll be so close together I was really hoping to lump them into one fat group buy if at all possible. If it's too confusing to lump them together then I'll just do them separately so nobody gets confused on which bars they're ordering. After all, it may take us longer than expected to get the bars fit up to an '08/'09. Perhaps doing it separately is the best way.
Well, I'd send a check today for a cage that won't be ready for a coupla monyhs, if nothing else then the superior support we have been witnessing since the start of this thread. I did the same for my AreaP full. Worth the wait. I do hope the 1st gen bars follow the lines of version #8, but, short of bathroom bars I'm willing to trust Ryans judgement. I haven't decided if I will get a set for the rear as I only/generally ride with them on when I'm touring. I figure a drop at speed means major damage regardless of what she's wearing for protection.
Yea, I'd wait off on sending the check just yet. It's still a bit early. I'll be sure to let you guys know as soon as the Group Buy starts so you can start getting payment arranged at that time. I'm really happy you guys are excited for these bars, though!
I had a lady last week to hit me from the side. All thou this was still just a minor tap (she had slammed on her breakes and only pushed me about 6" sidewase) and I didn't go down. The rear bar kept her bumper from crushing my leg between it and my bike. It also protected my bag which I'm 100% confidant that it would have been damaged if the rear bar wasn't there.
I guess my point is ..... the bars do more than just protect the bike if/when it goes over. They protect the rider as well. ;)
Oh wow! That is pretty incredible. I haven't heard a story quite like that before. Those rear bars really are a great addition for how small and relatively inexpensive they are. I'm glad to hear you're okay, though! It sounds like that situation could have just as easily turned out not so good.
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Ok hate to be a bother but PICTURES!!! ;D Like they say Pictures are worth a thousand words. Any picture will allow me to drool. Well thanks again for the fast responses and all the info still cant wait for these bars.
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Ok hate to be a bother but PICTURES!!! ;D Like they say Pictures are worth a thousand words. Any picture will allow me to drool. Well thanks again for the fast responses and all the info still cant wait for these bars.
Over the last few days, we've been working on tweaking the bar so the Canyon Cage hits the ground at the same time the rear bag guards do. At first we shifted the bar out about a half inch which proved to do very little to solve our issue so we had to scrap that change. Next, we decided to try shifting the bar down slightly. This actually really helped and now both the bars hit the ground at nearly the same time. We just got this change finished up and welded into place yesterday afternoon so I didn't have time to get any photos but I'll get some this morning for you guys so you can see the latest design. It's essentially the same as it was before, just shifted down slightly on the bike. It did change the aesthetics slightly but I still think it looks really good. Pictures coming shortly!
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BLEGH! They moved the bar down slightly like we had discussed yesterday but for some reason they also tweaked the upper horizontal bar. They tightened the radius to create a sharper angle. To me, it doesn't look quite as good so I'm going to have them change it back. I'll wait til they make that change before I post more pics of the entire bar but I do have a photo of the left side for you guys. In this photo the bike is tipped over so you guys can see that the shifter is indeed protected. Take a look!
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0175.jpg)
This is where the bike comes to rest at the 45 degree angle. Once the bike rocks over that initial point and is more perpendicular to the ground, the shifter will only get farther away from the ground.
Anyhow, I'll be uploading more photos for you guys of the lowered bar once they change the upper horizontal bar back to where it was previously.
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http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0158.jpg (http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0158.jpg)
Sembrano più corte qui le Guardie lato DX.
Tenere presente che il cemento come piano di strada non può dare la giusta realtà dell'asfalto in più in stagione estiva.
La mia osservazione ha come fine ad una ottima realizzazione senza sviste.
MGvalerio 8)
Seem shorter here Guards RH side.
Keep in mind that as the cement floor of the road can not give the right of the asphalt actually more in the summer.
My observation as an end to a great achievement without oversights.
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http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0158.jpg (http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0158.jpg)
Sembrano più corte qui le Guardie lato DX.
Tenere presente che il cemento come piano di strada non può dare la giusta realtà dell'alfalto in più in stagione estiva.
La mia osservazione ha come fine ad una ottima realizzazione senza sviste.
MGvalerio 8)
I'm not sure what you're saying here but the photo you linked is a relatively old version of the bars. Since the photo you linked was taken, we've made quite a few changes to the bar so the front and rear guard hit the ground at the same time. This change also helped the Canyon Cage hold the front portion of the bike higher off the ground which gave more clearance to the footpegs and brake pedal/shifter.
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RyanMCEnterprises (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2652) OK :)
Vorrei far presente che se la leva del cambio si rompe per la caduta accidentale della moto da fermo ,non sarà possibile inserire alcuna marcia con asticella cambio rotta,rimaniamo con la marcia messa o peggio con cambio in folle, il mio motivo di fondo è questo....quindi buon lavoro come sempre.
Informare non è demigrare,visto che la cosa era stata data per scontata da voi.Diamo a Cesare quello che è di Cesare,visto una certa freddezza nella sua risposta. ;)
MGvalerio. 8)
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^^^I'm not sure how to take that guy.....^^^
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Ciao everybody! :D
My name is Ugo and I joined this forum just yesterday.
I've been told about it by Valerio, a friend of mine I met on an Italian Forum about the Concours (in Italy called GTR 1400).
I also have this bike (MY2011) since last September, coming from a HD Dyna Street Bob.
Let's say that Valerio is very ... direct ;D, but he has an extraordinary creativity!
Moreover he doesn't speak a word in English... and believe me, sometimes he's hard to understand even when he writes in Italian! ;)
What he is trying to communicate is that he is concerned about the possible damages to the shift lever when the bike lays down on the left side.
In details, despite a safety guard space between the shifter tip and the ground, there could be a damage anyway due to actual irregularities of the pavement.
Also, when hot in summer, the floor could be "tender", thus the bike could "sink" a little in the tarmac... and destroy the shifter.
He also points out that the shifter is very fragile and breaks very easily (he already replaced couple of them...) and if it happens when you're far from home it's impossible, according to his experience, shift to another gear: if you're in neutral, no way you can go in 1st or 2nd!
That's why he is suggesting to increase a little bit the gap between the shifter tip and the ground.
Valerio's words! :)
BTW, I find this forum very interesting, professional and "alive" and, despite I'm on the other side of the pond, I'm eager to participate and share each other's experiences, opinions, dreams...
:chugbeer:
Ciao
Ugo
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Welcome Ugo!
"Moreover he doesn't speak a word in English... and believe me, sometimes he's hard to understand even when he writes in Italian!"
You don't say? ;)
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That is a much better translation than I got from the Google translator. ;D
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Welp, here is the finalized version of the bar. They finally got it finished up and sent out to the powdercoaters. Unfortunately, I was busy handling other stuff when they finalized the bar and wasn't around to give my final okay but then again I'm not the one with the final okay, that'd be the owner. Here are some photos of the final bar that was lowered slightly to protect the lower part of the fairing as well as the brake pedal and shift lever.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0195.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0186.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0190.jpg)
What he is trying to communicate is that he is concerned about the possible damages to the shift lever when the bike lays down on the left side.
In details, despite a safety guard space between the shifter tip and the ground, there could be a damage anyway due to actual irregularities of the pavement.
Also, when hot in summer, the floor could be "tender", thus the bike could "sink" a little in the tarmac... and destroy the shifter.
He also points out that the shifter is very fragile and breaks very easily (he already replaced couple of them...) and if it happens when you're far from home it's impossible, according to his experience, shift to another gear: if you're in neutral, no way you can go in 1st or 2nd!
That's why he is suggesting to increase a little bit the gap between the shifter tip and the ground.
Ahhhh okay, that's a bit more clear. The photo is a bit misleading and makes the shifter look closer than it really is. There's an inch and a half or more between the shifter and the ground as is. If we extend or lower the bar any more it'll begin to look really awkward on the bike. I believe we've protected the shifter as best we can while also protecting the other parts of the bike.
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Yeah Pictures!!! Now all we need is instructions to make the whole thing legit. ;D Can I trouble you to take pictures with out the saddle bag bars on and with out the sadle bags. I ride my Connie with out the bags all the time. I figure for guys who buy them and have to wait to buy the bag bars we can see what kinda protection it provides. Let us know when you have pictures of the powder coated cage. Keep up the great work and thanks again for all that you do Ryan. :D
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Yeah Pictures!!! Now all we need is instructions to make the whole thing legit. ;D Can I trouble you to take pictures with out the saddle bag bars on and with out the sadle bags. I ride my Connie with out the bags all the time. I figure for guys who buy them and have to wait to buy the bag bars we can see what kinda protection it provides. Let us know when you have pictures of the powder coated cage. Keep up the great work and thanks again for all that you do Ryan. :D
I was actually going to take photos without the rear bags and guards on the other day but the guy whose bike we're using didn't leave the key to remove the bags! I have the little rectangle electronic piece to start the bike but don't you need the actual key to remove the bags? If that's incorrect, I'll take some photos like this once we get the bar back from our powdercoaters. If the key is needed, we'll have to wait until the guy comes to pick the bike up. :-\
Once we get the bar back I'll be sure to add more photos of the finished product!
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I was actually going to take photos without the rear bags and guards on the other day but the guy whose bike we're using didn't leave the key to remove the bags! I have the little rectangle electronic piece to start the bike but don't you need the actual key to remove the bags? If that's incorrect, I'll take some photos like this once we get the bar back from our powdercoaters. If the key is needed, we'll have to wait until the guy comes to pick the bike up. :-\
Once we get the bar back I'll be sure to add more photos of the finished product!
Not sure which fob he left you, but if it is the larger fob flip it over, the key is on the back and slides out...
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Not sure which fob he left you, but if it is the larger fob flip it over, the key is on the back and slides out...
Yeah!
That's the key I use to open the fuel cap!
I think that since MY 2010 (if not MY2009) it's standard on the fob.
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That is not the case for the 2nd gen bikes. If you have the fob turn the key to the right I think it says FSS. The key will then come out and you can use that to remove the bags.
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Not sure which fob he left you, but if it is the larger fob flip it over, the key is on the back and slides out...
Ahhhhh! Indeed it does! I thought that was where the little watch battery would go. Silly me! I'll get some photos without the rear bags and guards on when the receive the Canyon Cage back from our powdercoaters in a day or two! I could tell you though, the exhaust would definitely take a hit without the rear bars on there. It seems as though most of the bike itself would be protected but the stock exhaust would definitely hit. I'll get some photos for you, though...
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Welp, here is the finalized version of the bar. They finally got it finished up and sent out to the powdercoaters. Unfortunately, I was busy handling other stuff when they finalized the bar and wasn't around to give my final okay but then again I'm not the one with the final okay, that'd be the owner. Here are some photos of the final bar that was lowered slightly to protect the lower part of the fairing as well as the brake pedal and shift lever.
Eeek. Unfortunately, it really did make a dramatic change to the look of the bars. The bottom used to follow the fairing line more closely. Now it doesn't seem to match anything. And the top bar's rear angle looks very strange, like it is more than 90 degrees and bulging out. Plus the lower mount doesn't meet an intersection. (although it wasn't attached at all in the first mockup, so there wasn't anything to compare to).
I have attached a composite picture that compares the two. I adjusted the resolutions and positions the best I could to have a similar view.
I think, at a minimum, it is imperative to change the top bar to have the same position and angle as in the first version (which mirrors the lower bar, just turned around). I can't get a total feel from just the few pictures, but it is enough to be a bit shocked. I really don't want to sound negative, because I know that functionality is important and this is a lot of work.... but I think the top bar is ruining it now. Although that top picture (below) was my favorite, hands down, if the top bar must look like what it is now (bottom picture, below), I would rather have no top bar at all.
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Why does it need a top bar?
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Why does it need a top bar?
So there's a place to put your highway pegs. :o
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So there's a place to put your highway pegs. :o
The bottom bar is too high for that!
:o
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No! Stop! Back up! The final design is just not right!
Whoever made the final call IMHO just made a big mistake.
The bars must follow the lines of the bike, period!
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That is not the case for the 2nd gen bikes. If you have the fob turn the key to the right I think it says FSS. The key will then come out and you can use that to remove the bags.
:o No no no, don't remove that key, it will put a curse on it for sure... ;)
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No! Stop! Back up! The final design is just not right!
Whoever made the final call IMHO just made a big mistake.
The bars must follow the lines of the bike, period!
I probably shouldn't say this but I completely agree 100%. After I left yesterday, when they were going to lower the bar to fix the shifter clearance issue, other changes somehow made their way into the bar as well. I'm pleading with the powers that be to change the bar back to the previous design and merely lower it without making any other changes. The version we had before this final one was damn near perfect except for being an inch or so too high and it seems like we've since regressed. Don't worry, guys. It's not too late to make changes and I won't let anything but perfection leave this shop.
UPDATE: I've talked the owner into reverting back to the previous design we had just before this "finalized" bar. It got a bit loud in here but I'm going to have them build a new bar from scratch and I'm going to watch every damn step to make sure it's to OUR expectations. Don't worry, guys, we'll get this thing made properly.
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THANKS!!!!!
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I probably shouldn't say this but I completely agree 100%. After I left yesterday, when they were going to lower the bar to fix the shifter clearance issue, other changes somehow made their way into the bar as well. I'm pleading with the powers that be to change the bar back to the previous design and merely lower it without making any other changes. The version we had before this final one was damn near perfect except for being an inch or so too high and it seems like we've since regressed. Don't worry, guys. It's not too late to make changes and I won't let anything but perfection leave this shop.
UPDATE: I've talked the owner into reverting back to the previous design we had just before this "finalized" bar. It got a bit loud in here but I'm going to have them build a new bar from scratch and I'm going to watch every damn step to make sure it's to OUR expectations. Don't worry, guys, we'll get this thing made properly.
GREAT call! Major kudos!
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Or you could remove the ignition key. Simply pressed in on the ignition and turned it to the far right. It will pull out to reveal a key.
FYIY, I'm not really thrilled with the final design either. Then again, I'm not gonna' drop my bike any time soon. ;D
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Or you could remove the ignition key. Simply pressed in on the ignition and turned it to the far right. It will pull out to reveal a key.
FYIY, I'm not really thrilled with the final design either. Then again, I'm not gonna' drop my bike any time soon. ;D
Careful.... don't temp fate or karma LOL
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UPDATE: I've talked the owner into reverting back to the previous design we had just before this "finalized" bar. It got a bit loud in here but I'm going to have them build a new bar from scratch and I'm going to watch every damn step to make sure it's to OUR expectations. Don't worry, guys, we'll get this thing made properly.
I am very glad you won! (But also sorry it seems to have caused some conflict).
I kinda thought you were just waiting for someone on the forum (like me) to point out that there was something very wrong about what happened, so you would have some ammo. I am no designer, but I know what I like and don't when I see it- and boy did that sucker mutate!
Also- was the original intent to have the bottom mount point meet at the top intersection? I think that would be more attractive, but I am not sure it is possible. Lord knows I do not want to make too many waves! Just ignore this whole paragraph if it opens a can of worms.
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I am very glad you won! (But also sorry it seems to have caused some conflict).
I kinda thought you were just waiting for someone on the forum (like me) to point out that there was something very wrong about what happened, so you would have some ammo. I am no designer, but I know what I like and don't when I see it- and boy did that sucker mutate!
Also- was the original intent to have the bottom mount point meet at the top intersection? I think that would be more attractive, but I am not sure it is possible. Lord knows I do not want to make too many waves! Just ignore this whole paragraph if it opens a can of worms.
There's a funky back story you guys aren't privvy to.
When I came in this morning I walked out back, saw the mutated bars, and almost screamed. Then the owner showed up and said that was the final version and it was sent off to our powdercoaters. At that point he had asked if I took photos and posted them to the forum which I hadn't done yet. He didn't know this at the time but I didn't want to post the photos because I knew the design was crap and needed to be changed. After an hour or two of arguing I gave up and decided to post the photos and I'm glad I did because you guys reacted exactly as I hoped you would. The owner heard of the immediate negative responses, gave in, and is allowing me to redo the bar the way it should be done.
So, we're working on getting the bars back to where they should be. On that note, though, the bottom of the bar isn't going to *appear* as though it follows the lines on the bike as there are a few different lines to follow towards the bottom of the front end of the bike where the vents are (there are a few different lines which go at a few different angles). However, the top horizontal bar is going to flow perfectly with the vents and the bottom bar is going to be perfectly parallel to the top bar (thus making it follow the lines of the vent as well). The angles are going to remain exactly the same as they were previously, just slightly lower on the bike itself. I'll be sure to get photos for you guys as soon as my revised bar is done!
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I'm offline for a couple of hours and this thread explodes! Thank you for putting the brakes on the "final" design. It would be a shame to have gone to all this trouble to end up with something no one will buy?
Will the lower mount point meet with the top bar, like in the earlier version? or will it be a visible mount on the exterior below where the top bar meets?
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No ,no, no!!!! ..... What happened everything was well . :(
Don't like the new design .
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I'm offline for a couple of hours and this thread explodes! Thank you for putting the brakes on the "final" design. It would be a shame to have gone to all this trouble to end up with something no one will buy?
Will the lower mount point meet with the top bar, like in the earlier version? or will it be a visible mount on the exterior below where the top bar meets?
Hahahahaha, yea, things got hectic here for a while! No problem about putting the brakes on, though. I wasn't about to let that design leave our shop as the final design. I would have walked out in protest if they decided not to change it. As Caffeinated said, why go through all this work to end at a bar nobody will want? Earlier versions were a bit misleading as we were always intending for that to be an external mounting point. We just didn't set it up in earlier iterations due to time. Also, the upper horizontal bar will meet just above that mounting point because that's where it looks best now that we've had to shift the bar down on the bike. The bar is almost done, though. I should have some photos for you guys shortly.
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There's a funky back story you guys aren't privvy to.
OK, I must be even more intuitive than I even implied in my post ;)
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+1000 on the back of the top bar needing to meet the lower at a 90 degree angle as it was before.
Thanks for having our back, Ryan. I think I understand what the shop was trying to do with that top bar, but it didn't work.
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IMHO, moving the guard down really does make it look out of place on this bike. If you look at the before and after pictures, you will notice that the guards are essentially the same shape except for the height of the horizontal bars. By simply moving it up, it looks 100x better.
I know these modification are being done to remain "compatible" with the rear guards, but would it be possible to sell the newly designed guards as "incompatible" with the rear guards? That, or look into modifying the rear guards so that they work with the new design.
Just a thought.
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OK, I must be even more intuitive than I even implied in my post ;)
Hahahaha definitely!
+1000 on the back of the top bar needing to meet the lower at a 90 degree angle as it was before.
Thanks for having our back, Ryan. I think I understand what the shop was trying to do with that top bar, but it didn't work.
No, no, thank YOU guys for having MY back! Your response to the "final" bar is what led the owner to reconsider his decision. Well, that and my incessant harping.
Anyhow, here is MY revised bar. Unfortunately it HAS to be that low on the fairing to protect the bike the way it needs to. I know the lower horizontal bar doesn't appear to follow the lines behind it but it is perfectly parallel to the upper horizontal bar which follows the lines of the vent well. If we were to make the lower bar follow the lines of the bike, that opening would look really funky. I'm hoping the small correction to the upper horizontal bar we just made is all we need to call this bar done! What do you guys think? If there are any other changes needed, we can make them tomorrow morning before sending this off to our powder coaters.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0201.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0200.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0199.jpg)
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Yes! This is much better that the prior "final" design.
I am a designer and I work for a global company that has been around for 175 years and we paint our product Green. :-)
Thanks again for not being a "Yes Man" and listing to the customers.
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IMHO, moving the guard down really does make it look out of place on this bike. If you look at the before and after pictures, you will notice that the guards are essentially the same shape except for the height of the horizontal bars. By simply moving it up, it looks 100x better.
...
I agree based on bars that stand out so much from the color behind (like the mockups against a black bike), but I believe this will disappear (or at least, be less noticeable) with bars that more match the color of the plastic lowers that are behind it. Black bars will blend better with the dark lowers. It's a compromise, but I can live with it on my bike.
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Keep on fighting for the design Ryan! Bottom line is that putting these bars on the bike is optional and costs a non-trivial amount of money. As consumers with other options, I suspect that many of us won't buy the MC bars unless they are functional AND pleasing to the eye. You make them like I think you are planning to, I will be buying a front and rear set. Your intervention will generate more revenue for MC Enterprises. Hope the owner realizes this!
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I dig it, can't wait!
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Maybe it's the picture but the lower bar looks like it has a tighter bend (which looks good) then the top bar and it doesn't look Parallel. Also the top bar attaching just or partly above the bolt through tube looks odd. If it where just a bit lower and attached to that tube with the bolt it might look like it belongs there. I'm glad you got your way, I would have never bought the prior "final design."
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I agree based on bars that stand out so much from the color behind (like the mockups against a black bike), but I believe this will disappear (or at least, be less noticeable) with bars that more match the color of the plastic lowers that are behind it. Black bars will blend better with the dark lowers. It's a compromise, but I can live with it on my bike.
People keep saying that, but that is only true for the black or dark bikes. On the lighter bikes, like my silver, they are not going to disappear if they are black. Quite the contrary. Before, when it was mostly above the black areas, chrome or silver bars would have blended very well, overall. Now that it is lower, much more of it is across the bottom black fairing, making a silver/chrome bar much more visible down low. And trying to have multicolor will look freaky in other ways. So I can't quite "win" with any color, although I do believe matching the upper fairing would be more important.
This is one reason I am nowhere near as happy as before, about it being moved down. Of course, it is irrelevant... if it needs to be lower to protect things, then that has to happen. I am just trying to point out that for some of us, the bars are not going to magically disappear, so the aesthetic design is more important than for some other people.
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Anyhow, here is MY revised bar. [...] What do you guys think?
It is a definite improvement. It might be a trick of the angle of the photograph, but to me it still looks like the top bar is not perfectly parallel to the bottom. The top bar is set at the correct angle to match the vents and should not be moved. It APPEARS that the bottom bar has to come up just a bit in the rear, and the top bar vertical leg has to be shortened just a bit to make the parallel. Again, it could be an optical illusion.....
Tell me I am wrong and I *might* believe you...
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Maybe it's the picture but the lower bar looks like it has a tighter bend (which looks good) then the top bar and it doesn't look Parallel. Also the top bar attaching just or partly above the bolt through tube looks odd. If it where just a bit lower and attached to that tube with the bolt it might look like it belongs there. I'm glad you got your way, I would have never bought the prior "final design."
Yep, I agree with your analysis on it not being parallel enough; although, as I pointed out in my last post, it could be an optical illusion. Of course, even if it is an optical illusion, if we can see it, then it looks that way, regardless of actual measurements... so it is a bit disturbing. If it really is wrong, I assume it could be corrected without affecting protection.
I also agree (and said before) that my preference would be for the front/bottom mounting point to meet at the intersection of the two bars. It would be more attractive and less distracting that being a little below the intersection. Unfortunately, they might not have much choice there.... The engine mount is where it is. I assume the only way to FORCE them to meet would mean the top bar would have to be even less "tall", resulting in a more squished rectangle, not sure how the resulting setup would look (just can't picture it).
EDIT: I performed a vector analysis of the photograph and confirmed they are not parallel in the picture. This just proves we are not crazy in what we see, but it does not mean they are not parallel in reality.
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It looks like the top bar may just be sitting in place, and not tacked on, so it may have moved or just be a representation on how it will look. Once welded it would be parallel? Just guessing...
Much better then that last round though.
I also have a silver bike, and think the black bars would ultimately look the best, since the bottom bar would blend onto the black lowers. I'll just have to deal with black color slowing the bike down :P
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I think when they get the '08/09 ready, I'll get them bare and split the paint silver/flat black to blend with the bike.
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Ryan you are the man! Thanks for sticking up for us. I like what you have.
One thing you might try is to raise the 2nd bar up a little to allow for a little larger tilted rectangle as shown in picture B. To me it would visually look like the bar would protect a little more, also raising the 2nd bar up away from all the angle changes happening between the vane angles and the beginning of the black fairing piece and raises the radius up into cleaner territory to relate to upper radius of the fairing vent opening. The Concours is a pretty large bike and the larger tilted rectangle is more proportional to the Concours. That's just me, what does everybody else think?
Black is the color for me. My MCE crash bars take alot of abuse in my garage and scratches are easy to take care of with a little black spray paint and a paint brush and it looks just great for a minimal exspense. My concours is for riding I don't like to polish chrome when I can be riding.
Gordon
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1876/canyonbard41812.jpg)
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I am new here. I have been reading or 'trolling' this forum for about a year before I got my C-14. Opinions expressed on this forum helped me decide to finally pull the trigger on the Connie and I couldn't be happier. That said.. I like the design of the bar and the process everyone has been a part of...but Geez! If you do intend to please everybody , I'll be over on the Hoveround Forum picking out crash bars before this thing hits the street! Let's be honest ; not one of those designs looks better than no bar at all. We are riders. Sometimes we fall. It can be expensive. There are no perfect solutions when your bike has fallen and can't get up! Thanks again Ryan, but don't get fired! :o
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Let's be honest ; not one of those designs looks better than no bar at all.
Not once you drop her once bro... :nuts:
Welcome to the forum 10! :chugbeer:
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Ryan,
Just to get some pressure off your shoulders. You can keep the bike until May before Mother Day. Got to take the Mama out for her weekend on the bike. That way you can have something we all like and want. I ratter wait a little longer . Than getting her back and not liking/wanting the final product. Everything done slowly is always better. The more input and feedback the better it will be.
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One thing you might try is to raise the 2nd bar up a little to allow for a little larger tilted rectangle as shown in picture B. To me it would visually look like the bar would protect a little more, also raising the 2nd bar up away from all the angle changes happening between the vane angles and the beginning of the black fairing piece and raises the radius up into cleaner territory to relate to upper radius of the fairing vent opening. The Concours is a pretty large bike and the larger tilted rectangle is more proportional to the Concours. That's just me, what does everybody else think?
Oooh, that is a tough one. On one hand, the larger rectangle balances well on the large Concours. It also better centers the lower mounting point. On the other hand, the smaller the rectangle, the less visible/obtuse. After staring at both for a while, I could go either way- I am hard pressed to have a preference for one over the other.
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Zulu, awesome and so generous. Thanks!!!
Ryan when it comes time for gen one bikes I'd like to see #8 the focus, our lines are more angular and #8 just looked bad a$$.
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Zulu, awesome and so generous. Thanks!!!
+1... Awesome bro! :chugbeer:
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Not once you drop her once bro... :nuts:
Welcome to the forum 10! :chugbeer:
I'm on the fence with crash bars. On one hand, they serve a general purpose for protection. On the other, they ruin the sleek/sexy styling of a sport touring bike.
Dropping my bike isn't guaranteed to happen, but if it does, a quick call to my insurance company would fix everything. I have major accident forgiveness, so it's not even going to increase my insurance rates. Not only that, if I find used parts to replace the damaged ones with, I could likely have the entire bike repainted a color of my choice. PPG has some AMAZING colors to choose from that are much nicer than the Kawasaki colors...
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I'm on the fence with crash bars. On one hand, they serve a general purpose for protection. On the other, they ruin the sleek/sexy styling of a sport touring bike.
Dropping my bike isn't guaranteed to happen, but if it does, a quick call to my insurance company would fix everything.
zero $ deductable? :-\
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No problem just doing my part . Taking one for the team . :) :) :)Maybe Ryan might be able to have 08/09 bike in the shop. And compare both bike cage set up. During that time.
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zero $ deductable? :-\
$100.00, but a night out at PF Changs costs me more than that. :)
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I work for a towing company. And see a lot of dropped bikes. And most insurance companies. Just total out the bike. Just for some fairing damage .
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I work for a towing company. And see a lot of dropped bikes. And most insurance companies. Just total out the bike. Just for some fairing damage .
Yeah, lazy insurance adjusters are pretty quick to cut a check if the vehicle is less than $10K.
In Oregon you can take your vehicle to ANY repair shop that you want. This prevents the insurance adjuster from being lazy and writing off the vehicle. In most cases, if the insurance company receives a repair bill that's less, they will opt to repair the bike rather than write it off.
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$100.00, but a night out at PF Changs costs me more than that. :)
Mmmmm.... :P I love those scallops!
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Mmmmm.... :P I love those scallops!
+1 And Singapore street noodles
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I'm on the fence with crash bars. On one hand, they serve a general purpose for protection. On the other, they ruin the sleek/sexy styling of a sport touring bike.
I'm in the same boat as you! I love the color of my bike. May just put on some sliders. No doubt these bars would be far better protection though.
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Ryan you are the man! Thanks for sticking up for us. I like what you have.
One thing you might try is to raise the 2nd bar up a little to allow for a little larger tilted rectangle as shown in picture B. To me it would visually look like the bar would protect a little more, also raising the 2nd bar up away from all the angle changes happening between the vane angles and the beginning of the black fairing piece and raises the radius up into cleaner territory to relate to upper radius of the fairing vent opening. The Concours is a pretty large bike and the larger tilted rectangle is more proportional to the Concours. That's just me, what does everybody else think?
Black is the color for me. My MCE crash bars take alot of abuse in my garage and scratches are easy to take care of with a little black spray paint and a paint brush and it looks just great for a minimal exspense. My concours is for riding I don't like to polish chrome when I can be riding.
Gordon
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1876/canyonbard41812.jpg)
I think the bottom pic here definitely looks better. I hate that the bars have to be moved down, but since they do I think the larger square looks more proportional and "fits" better on the large fairings.
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I'm thinking that these will look really good powder-coated and color matched to my Neptune Blue....
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I'm thinking that these will look really good powder-coated and color matched to my Neptune Blue....
A black powder coat should blend really well against the Neptune Blue. Color-matching it would look good, too, but make it a bear to touch up I would think.
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Morning guys! Thanks a ton for all of your input! I'm not in the office yet but when I get there I'll answer more of your questions directly. Also, I'll be tweaking that top horizontal bar. You're correct, its not 100% perfectly parallel, I believe its off by literally a degree or two. We did that to attempt to compensate for the corner but apparently it didn't work. So, stay tuned for another set of photos. I doubt we'll raise the bar a bunch like Gordon suggested unfortunately. I think that design might look a bit awkward once it's actually on the bike. As it is, those radius' match those of the small rear guards so the two go together really well which is a bit hard to distinguish from the photos. Anyhow, once I get to work I'll answer more of your guys' questions/concerns directly.
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... I doubt we'll raise the bar a bunch like Gordon suggested unfortunately. I think that design might look a bit awkward once it's actually on the bike. As it is, those radius' match those of the small rear guards so the two go together really well which is a bit hard to distinguish from the photos. Anyhow, once I get to work I'll answer more of your guys' questions/concerns directly.
Thats cool...I was not changing the radius size, just the straight lengths. If you made the rectangle larger somebody might stick some lugage in it. ;)
Gordon
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3528/2011silverconcourscanyo.jpg)
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IMHO, moving the guard down really does make it look out of place on this bike. If you look at the before and after pictures, you will notice that the guards are essentially the same shape except for the height of the horizontal bars. By simply moving it up, it looks 100x better.
I know these modification are being done to remain "compatible" with the rear guards, but would it be possible to sell the newly designed guards as "incompatible" with the rear guards? That, or look into modifying the rear guards so that they work with the new design.
Just a thought.
The reason for moving the bar down was fairing protection, not so it goes better with the rear guards. The size of the "rectangle" that the lower and upper horizontal bars create was what I was tinkering with to go better with the rear set of guards. The location of the guards on the bike was changed to protect the lower section of the fairing as well as the brake pedal and shifter lever. With the design that was higher on the fairing, the shifter was in jeopardy as well as the lower section of the fairing which is unacceptable.
I agree based on bars that stand out so much from the color behind (like the mockups against a black bike), but I believe this will disappear (or at least, be less noticeable) with bars that more match the color of the plastic lowers that are behind it. Black bars will blend better with the dark lowers. It's a compromise, but I can live with it on my bike.
The matte black bars do a pretty good job of disappearing on nearly every color bike except for the really "bright" colors like the silver. Most of the bikes still have quite a bit of that flat black plastic that the guards really match well with. It'll be easier to see what I mean once the guards are powdercoated although we're working on a black bike so of course they'll disappear well.
Keep on fighting for the design Ryan! Bottom line is that putting these bars on the bike is optional and costs a non-trivial amount of money. As consumers with other options, I suspect that many of us won't buy the MC bars unless they are functional AND pleasing to the eye. You make them like I think you are planning to, I will be buying a front and rear set. Your intervention will generate more revenue for MC Enterprises. Hope the owner realizes this!
I totally agree and I completely understand that people wouldn't want to put something on their bike that isn't both functional and good-looking. Heck, I wouldn't want to put anything on my bike that's not both functional and looks good and I expect most of you guys feel the same way! This is a big part of the reason I'm fighting so hard to keep tinkering with this design until we have something that really works well and looks good doing it. Although, I understand I really can't please everyone and I'd be naive to think otherwise but there's no harm in trying!
Maybe it's the picture but the lower bar looks like it has a tighter bend (which looks good) then the top bar and it doesn't look Parallel. Also the top bar attaching just or partly above the bolt through tube looks odd. If it where just a bit lower and attached to that tube with the bolt it might look like it belongs there. I'm glad you got your way, I would have never bought the prior "final design."
The lower bar does have a slightly tighter bend but only by a degree or two, literally. We did that to try and compensate for the upper bar going with the fairing vents but apparently it didn't work out like we thought it would. I'll try fixing that radius so they're identical and see how it looks. I get what you're saying about where those points come together, too. I think, though, if we were to make the upper horizontal bar meet directly at that mounting point that the rectangle may then be too skinny or thin. I believe we had a set up similar to this before but for some reason it didn't look right. I can always try and see how it looks with this lower set up though!
People keep saying that, but that is only true for the black or dark bikes. On the lighter bikes, like my silver, they are not going to disappear if they are black. Quite the contrary. Before, when it was mostly above the black areas, chrome or silver bars would have blended very well, overall. Now that it is lower, much more of it is across the bottom black fairing, making a silver/chrome bar much more visible down low. And trying to have multicolor will look freaky in other ways. So I can't quite "win" with any color, although I do believe matching the upper fairing would be more important.
This is one reason I am nowhere near as happy as before, about it being moved down. Of course, it is irrelevant... if it needs to be lower to protect things, then that has to happen. I am just trying to point out that for some of us, the bars are not going to magically disappear, so the aesthetic design is more important than for some other people.
The black color bars actually tend to blend in relatively well with that flat black plastic that's on the lower portion of the bike regardless of the color of the rest of the bike. Although I agree that the black bars look better on the darker color bikes. Don't you have an '08-'09 though? We'll be making a completely new set of bars for that bike as this bar for the 2010-2012 won't be fitting on the 2008-2009s.
It is a definite improvement. It might be a trick of the angle of the photograph, but to me it still looks like the top bar is not perfectly parallel to the bottom. The top bar is set at the correct angle to match the vents and should not be moved. It APPEARS that the bottom bar has to come up just a bit in the rear, and the top bar vertical leg has to be shortened just a bit to make the parallel. Again, it could be an optical illusion.....
Tell me I am wrong and I *might* believe you...
At first I couldn't quite understand what you meant but after glaring at the latest set of photos for the last few minutes I finally realized what you meant. I'll talk to Armando about slightly raising the rear end of the lower bar so it's perfectly parallel to the upper bar which currently matches the vents. Thanks for catching this, Maxtog!
Ryan you are the man! Thanks for sticking up for us. I like what you have.
One thing you might try is to raise the 2nd bar up a little to allow for a little larger tilted rectangle as shown in picture B. To me it would visually look like the bar would protect a little more, also raising the 2nd bar up away from all the angle changes happening between the vane angles and the beginning of the black fairing piece and raises the radius up into cleaner territory to relate to upper radius of the fairing vent opening. The Concours is a pretty large bike and the larger tilted rectangle is more proportional to the Concours. That's just me, what does everybody else think?
Black is the color for me. My MCE crash bars take alot of abuse in my garage and scratches are easy to take care of with a little black spray paint and a paint brush and it looks just great for a minimal exspense. My concours is for riding I don't like to polish chrome when I can be riding.
Gordon
Thanks, Gordon! I do like the look of that change if we didn't have the rear bars to take into consideration as well. It seems as though the majority of people are going to pair the Canyon Cage with the small rear saddle bag guards so I kinda have to take them into consideration a bit. I think widening that rectangle would simply be an aesthetics move and wouldn't really do much to improve the amount of protection. With that said I think widening that rectangle would improve the looks of the Canyon Cage itself but when paired with the rear guards, I think it will look a tad awkward. I think the size of that rectangle as we have it now really looks awesome when paired with the small rear guards as the radius' match and the openings are the same size.
Ryan,
Just to get some pressure off your shoulders. You can keep the bike until May before Mother Day. Got to take the Mama out for her weekend on the bike. That way you can have something we all like and want. I ratter wait a little longer . Than getting her back and not liking/wanting the final product. Everything done slowly is always better. The more input and feedback the better it will be.
Phew, thank you Zulu! You've seriously been a massive help in this entire process and if it weren't for you these bars never would have been made! I don't think we'll need the bike THAT long as we're quickly getting them finished up but I can't say enough about your patience and generosity! Thank you, thank you!
Zulu, awesome and so generous. Thanks!!!
Ryan when it comes time for gen one bikes I'd like to see #8 the focus, our lines are more angular and #8 just looked bad a$$.
We'll definitely be going with a slightly different design for the '08-'09s as the lines of the bike are quite a bit different. Don't worry, we'll make it look good! ;)
Thats cool...I was not changing the radius size, just the straight lengths. If you made the rectangle larger somebody might stick some lugage in it. ;)
Gordon
Yes, you're correct the radius' are the same. I just misspoke when I said radius'. I meant that the opening there is the same as the small rear guards so they go together really well. I'll see about opening that spot up a bit but I think it'll look a bit awkward when paired with the small rear guards. Granted, it does look great that way by itself when not taking the smaller guards into consideration.
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Thats cool...I was not changing the radius size, just the straight lengths. If you made the rectangle larger somebody might stick some lugage in it. ;)
That'd be some HOT luggage with the vent right there!
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That'd be some HOT luggage with the vent right there!
That's for your lunch.
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That's for your lunch.
Stick some hot pockets in there and when you get saddle sore, lunch is ready...
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Pistol on the right, ammo on the left ;D The real reason throttle locks were invented ;)
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Okay, well, I've changed the bar once again. As Maxtog and a few others pointed out, the rearward part of the rectangle was slightly closer together than was the forward portion of the rectangle so I've had that fixed. The rectangle is now perfectly parallel although some of the lines of the bike throw off the look towards the rear portion of the bar because they go at a few different angles. Also, I got some photos a bit farther back for you guys so you can see what I mean about the entire package looking proper together. Most of the photos up until this point have been closer so perhaps a different perspective will help a bit.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0210.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0208.jpg)
Now, I'm man enough to admit when I was wrong and I was incorrect in saying highway pegs aren't for this bike. We mocked up a set of highway pegs and they really are comfortable. I was of the thought that the aggressive body angle the bike puts you in would be a funky position to put your feet up, I was incorrect. They're fairly basic and not super pretty but they're a great solution for the cramped knees and they can be put on or taken off within minutes and adjusted almost infinitely. You can move them to wherever you want on the Canyon Cage, forward or backward, as well as change both the horizontal angle as well as the vertical angle of the pegs. Oh yea, and they fold up. They wouldn't come with the Canyon Cage (to keep costs as low as possible for those who don't want them) but you could tack them onto your order for $40-$60 for the set (including the clamps and mounting hardware) depending on what peg style you prefer. The pegs in the photo are our Alligator style peg.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0212-1.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0213.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0215-1.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0216.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0219.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0222.jpg)
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What no shorts today? ;D
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What no shorts today? ;D
I wasn't expecting to model for you guys! If I knew I'd be taking photos on the bike I would have worn my Speedo's!
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I wasn't expecting to model for you guys! If I knew I'd be taking photos on the bike I would have worn my Speedo's!
I can proudly say that I don't own a pair of Speedos... :o
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I like the highway pegs. They do stick out a bit, which makes me wonder if the rear of the saddlebags will be susceptible to tipover damage even with the rear bars in place due to the increased angulation of contact up front with the pegs in place. Also, wouldn't the contact load on tipover be all in the front with the highway pegs?
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I wasn't expecting to model for you guys! If I knew I'd be taking photos on the bike I would have worn my Speedo's!
Good thing Ryan, that might have been a deal breaker. ;)
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Ehm....
I'm new here, I'm a rookie in this forum...
So please bear with me....
...but....
Please, don't put the highway pegs on this bike!!!! :yikes:
Don't make it a Harley....
They're different things!
The original posture is perfect, moving the legs forward will cause you pain in the back, despite an initial sense of comfort.
And the style... no comment! ;)
I humbly say again: don't put the pegs in that way!
(...retiring in the shell as any rookie deserves) :)
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Ryan, we need pics w/hiway pegs and bike on it's side.
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Ehm....
I'm new here, I'm a rookie in this forum...
So please bear with me....
...but....
Please, don't put the highway pegs on this bike!!!! :yikes:
Don't make it a Harley....
They're different things!
The original posture is perfect, moving the legs forward will cause you pain in the back, despite an initial sense of comfort.
And the style... no comment! ;)
I humbly say again: don't put the pegs in that way!
(...retiring in the shell as any rookie deserves) :)
Hahahahah if you read my post you'll see that I was originally in the same school of thought as you currently are. After actually sitting on the bike though, they really are pretty comfy. I figured highway pegs would be counter productive to the forward-leaning body angle the bike puts the rider in. Although, keep in mind, this is an optional add-on. You don't have to buy the highway pegs if you don't like the look/functionality of them. It's merely just another option those interested can include in their order if they so desire! We weren't going to mess with highway pegs originally but it seems like there are quite a few people who would really like the option available.
Ryan, we need pics w/hiway pegs and bike on it's side.
Ahhh, good call! I can promise you the pegs and clamps would take a hit in a tip-over but I'm not sure if the pegs pose any risk to the fairings themselves. The only worry would be the pegs maybe rotating around and hitting the fairing in a bad enough spill but that should be remedied by sinching them down tightly and people who choose to put them on have to simply accept that risk. I'll see if I can get some tip-over photos of the bar with the pegs on it for you, though!
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Now it need some ape hangars.
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No comment on the pegs, but if you have shorter legs they may work. Not sure a 34" inseam would work to well....
Anyway, I think the bars look really good, so feel free to wrap this up and start production! (after some drop shots are taken of course).
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No comment on the pegs, but if you have shorter legs they may work. Not sure a 34" inseam would work to well....
Anyway, I think the bars look really good, so feel free to wrap this up and start production! (after some drop shots are taken of course).
You can move the pegs wherever you like on the bar so they could potentially be pretty far forward if you really wanted them to be. The only issue is the fairing angles in towards the front so it's a bit of a weird position having to "wrap" your legs around it so I can definitely see how it'd be a bit awkward for taller folks. Then again, it's merely just an optional thing for those who do like them. The bars aren't going to include these pegs so just disregard them if they're not for you.
I sure am glad we're getting ever-closer to production, though! The sooner we get these things cookin', the sooner they're in your hands! ;D
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(http://i43.tinypic.com/erlocg.jpg)
MGvalerio. 8)
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I like the highway pegs. They do stick out a bit, which makes me wonder if the rear of the saddlebags will be susceptible to tipover damage even with the rear bars in place due to the increased angulation of contact up front with the pegs in place. Also, wouldn't the contact load on tipover be all in the front with the highway pegs?
Naw, the rear of the saddle bags are safe in the situation you described. With our current set up the rear portion of the saddle bags are not even close to touching the ground. I don't think folded pegs protruding 2-3" would be enough to throw the angle off THAT much. Although, I'll tip the bike over for you guys with the highway pegs on there and see what it looks like and snap some photos.
Regarding the contact load, I think we may actually be okay because of where the bar actually comes into contact with the ground first but I can't be sure of this until I tip the bike over. Currently the bar hits the ground farther back than one might think just by looking. I'll get some photos when we tip the bike over though so you guys can see what I'm talking about.
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OK.
I've been contacted by Valerio in order to explain the modifications proposed in the picture he posted above.
He's suggesting to:
- bend more the bar, as you can see, making it tighter to the lower part of the fairing.
- increase the distance of the bar from the fairing going upwards
- enter the fairing on the hole right above where it enters now.
Doing in this way, according to Valerio, you can avoid that the mirrors get damaged when the bike drops
Moreover, the new shape at the bottom is more in line with the style of the fairing.
I'm reporting what Valerio is suggesting hoping that his suggestions, always made with the aim to be constructive, now can be more clearly understood.
P.S.: I personally don't know if the bar can be fixed where Valerio is suggesting (above the current) but I like more the design he's proposing. Just a matter of personal taste! ;)
Ciao
Ugo
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Excellent! I really like the highway peg option. Many of us have risers on the bars and the more rise and pull back of the bars the more comfy the pegs become. I currently have pegs in a similar position but attached to projektd sliders. If I drop my bike the pegs and the sliders will fold like a cheap suit and will do a lot of damage to the faring. Having the pegs with great tip over protection is exactly what I have been looking for.
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I wasn't expecting to model for you guys! If I knew I'd be taking photos on the bike I would have worn my Speedo's!
Well, I was enjoying my cake. :P
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Although I agree that the black bars look better on the darker color bikes. Don't you have an '08-'09 though? We'll be making a completely new set of bars for that bike as this bar for the 2010-2012 won't be fitting on the 2008-2009s.
You didn't see my posting info/signature/avatar? :) I have a Silver 2011....
At first I couldn't quite understand what you meant but after glaring at the latest set of photos for the last few minutes I finally realized what you meant. I'll talk to Armando about slightly raising the rear end of the lower bar so it's perfectly parallel to the upper bar which currently matches the vents. Thanks for catching this, Maxtog!
:)
Also, I got some photos a bit farther back for you guys so you can see what I mean about the entire package looking proper together. Most of the photos up until this point have been closer so perhaps a different perspective will help a bit.
It is nice to have as many photos and angles as possible, but if you want us to agree with you that the parallelism and angles are fixed, we will still need a similar photo shot as the previous ones (closer, more square/straight on)
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I've been contacted by Valerio in order to explain the modifications proposed in the picture he posted above.
1) Neat design and idea! The are more visible than ever with that design, but they do fit with the style of the bike quite well
2) No, I don't think that is going to change anything about the mirrors- they will still hit on a full on-side event. The only way to protect the mirrors is with something like the original bathroom bars, which stick out a LOT.
3) His design would REQUIRE that the lower mount meet at the intersection of the upper horizontal and the vertical bar. I believe they might have technical problems with that.
4) The design will significantly reduce the strength of the lower bar. If that is an issue or not, I don't know.
5) Probably too late in the design phase for such a radical change.
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Now, I'm man enough to admit when I was wrong and I was incorrect in saying highway pegs aren't for this bike. We mocked up a set of highway pegs and they really are comfortable. I was of the thought that the aggressive body angle the bike puts you in would be a funky position to put your feet up, I was incorrect. They're fairly basic and not super pretty but they're a great solution for the cramped knees and they can be put on or taken off within minutes and adjusted almost infinitely. You can move them to wherever you want on the Canyon Cage, forward or backward, as well as change both the horizontal angle as well as the vertical angle of the pegs. Oh yea, and they fold up. They wouldn't come with the Canyon Cage (to keep costs as low as possible for those who don't want them) but you could tack them onto your order for $40-$60 for the set (including the clamps and mounting hardware) depending on what peg style you prefer. The pegs in the photo are our Alligator style peg.
:thumbs: ;)
Any chance you could utilize the rear pegs with your clamps? Not only would it keep the symmetry but lots take the rear pegs off when they add the rear bars...
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The bars look great, now for on 08-09 version.
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The bars look great, now for on 08-09 version.
Agreed. Let's get these slower second gen bikes out of the way and get on with the real work. :)
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OK.
I've been contacted by Valerio in order to explain the modifications proposed in the picture he posted above.
He's suggesting to:
- bend more the bar, as you can see, making it tighter to the lower part of the fairing.
- increase the distance of the bar from the fairing going upwards
- enter the fairing on the hole right above where it enters now.
Doing in this way, according to Valerio, you can avoid that the mirrors get damaged when the bike drops
Moreover, the new shape at the bottom is more in line with the style of the fairing.
I'm reporting what Valerio is suggesting hoping that his suggestions, always made with the aim to be constructive, now can be more clearly understood.
P.S.: I personally don't know if the bar can be fixed where Valerio is suggesting (above the current) but I like more the design he's proposing. Just a matter of personal taste! ;)
Ciao
Ugo
As always, I appreciate all suggestions and recommendations! Also, thank you for being our translator! Regarding the changes, I think most of those changes will do more harm than good unfortunately because there's really no way to protect the mirrors without widening the bars a ton and moving them back up on the bike. Even our bathroom bars don't protect the mirrors in a total tip-over, they merely make it more difficult for the bike to rock over that initial hit point. The reason we went into that vent is because that's where the mount is inside the fairing. We could move the bar so it went into a different vent but then we'd have to use a bracket to reach the mounting point which would weaken the bar. I think the changes you proposed would make the bar look a tad better but unfortunately they'd weaken the bar which is no good. Lastly, regarding Valerios suggested changes going better with the lines towards the bottom the bike, there are actually a few different lines down there that go at a few different angles. It's tough to tell from the photos but as it is, the bars actually go with the majority of the lines quite well. There are just a few other lines that go at a slightly different angle that we can't really do much about. If we changed the bar to go with those lines, they wouldn't match the lines they currently do.
You didn't see my posting info/signature/avatar? :) I have a Silver 2011....
:)
It is nice to have as many photos and angles as possible, but if you want us to agree with you that the parallelism and angles are fixed, we will still need a similar photo shot as the previous ones (closer, more square/straight on)
Oop, you're right! Sorry, Maxtog! I've met and talked to so many people over the passed few weeks that I get you guys mixed up from time to time! You're totally right about the camera angles needing to be similar to compare the bars, that was my bad. I'll get some other closer views of the bar from a straight-on angle so you guys can compare. I promise they're parallel, though!
:thumbs: ;)
Any chance you could utilize the rear pegs with your clamps? Not only would it keep the symmetry but lots take the rear pegs off when they add the rear bars...
Ooohh, that's an interesting idea. Unfortunately, though, the stock rear pegs on the bike have a "male" connection on them and the pegs we use have a "female" connection so they can be mounted to the pivot block and allowed to fold up. They may work with some minor modification but as it is currently, they wouldn't work.
Agreed. Let's get these slower second gen bikes out of the way and get on with the real work. :)
Hahahahahaha we're planning on getting the 2009 bike in here as soon as we're finished up with this bar. We should be rocking and rolling on the earlier generation bikes by the week of 4/30 at the latest. Also, keep in mind that it won't take us nearly as long to do that bike because we already have the *basic* design in mind. We're basically just going to modify it so it fits and goes with the lines of the '08-'09. We're making progress, although it feels like it's going slowly!
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One personal question (not Valerio's... ;))
Does this cage fit the MY2011 of the European version GTR 1400?
As far as I know MY2010, 2011 and 2012 are all the same and so should be the European version and the American version (C14): can you confirm that?
Sorry if you already treated this topic in the post.... but it's very long and I couldn't check it all! :)
Thank you and ciao
Ugo
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One personal question (not Valerio's... ;))
Does this cage fit the MY2011 of the European version GTR 1400?
As far as I know MY2010, 2011 and 2012 are all the same and so should be the European version and the American version (C14): can you confirm that?
Sorry if you already treated this topic in the post.... but it's very long and I couldn't check it all! :)
Thank you and ciao
Ugo
All frame and body panels (except color) are the same. So yes, these will fit the European 2010-2012 C-14's.
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Thank you! :chugbeer:
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The design looks satisfactory to me. I think we are at the point that the general consensus is they are a good looking design and all we now need is the drop test. I appreciate you making all the former changes, however it is becoming ever more apparent that no matter what design you come up with, someone is going to want something moved a millimeter here or there. I say, do the drop tests, post the drop tests, and if successful, list a price for initial buyers and those of us who want to trade in the front bars from the initial group purchase. Otherwise, you and your staff will still be making changes until next year. I appreciate everything you have done and you have a well designed product that now needs to be brought to market. Thanks Ryan.
No speedos please. Now good looking female assistants in bikinis would not hurt.
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I wonder if anyone is thinking of getting the bars in the rough and having them line x"ed". I think if my bike ever gets scracthed up I will go flat black. Since I found a leak from the bike on the left side I am going to nickname my bike the SR-71, since it leaks while parked and likes to go fast. ;D
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(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0212-1.jpg)
You can move the pegs wherever you like on the bar so they could potentially be pretty far forward if you really wanted them to be.
Not trying too be to picky here; however, regarding the hwy pegs. Did you test this for lean angle within the design envelope of the bike?
Although I didn't mention it in the earlier post about my bars. It may have been unecessary, but I was concerned about the potential for hard-part contact with the road's surface before the bike's "hero pegs".
The only issue is the fairing angles in towards the front so it's a bit of a weird position having to "wrap" your legs around it so I can definitely see how it'd be a bit awkward for taller folks.
And, btw, I do understand what you "mean" to say in your post's first sentence.
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So.... my next question is.... will the canyons clear Ronnie's Highway Pegs??
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So.... my next question is.... will the canyons clear Ronnie's Highway Pegs??
The bigger question is....Why would you use them with these bars? Far more mounting choices on these.
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So.... my next question is.... will the canyons clear Ronnie's Highway Pegs??
Con detti supporti porta pedane avanzate,pure con le guardie A:P messe,se la moto cade a SX la leva del cambio arriva a toccare il suolo e di conseguenza si rompe,perché rimane fuori sagoma,troppo esposta.
MGvalerio. 8)
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The bigger question is....Why would you use them with these bars? Far more mounting choices on these.
1) Because these are beautiful and those are not.
2) These can be pretty much hidden, those cannot.
3) These are not a radical foot position with your legs spread wide apart, those will be.
One thing is true, these are a hell of a lot more expensive option than those. So the question remains- if they will co-habitate with the new canyons... (Really, only Ryan can answer that right now)
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Con detti supporti porta pedane avanzate,pure con le guardie A:P messe,se la moto cade a SX la leva del cambio arriva a toccare il suolo e di conseguenza si rompe,perché rimane fuori sagoma,troppo esposta.
MGvalerio. 8)
"With these substrates brings advanced platforms, even with the guards: P put, if the bike falls SX gear lever touches the ground and therefore it breaks, it remains out of shape, too exposed."
???
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Since I doubt Ryan HAS a pair of Ronnie's pegs, I doubt he would be willing to give a guaranteed answer, but it sure LOOKS to me like they'd work together.
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So I had about 12 miles of "Why oh WHY don't I have my canyon bars yet?" riding on hard gravel yesterday... LOL I made it but DANG that was some squirreley ****....
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The bigger question is....Why would you use them with these bars? Far more mounting choices on these.
Because I already spent 291.00 on them and they work GREAT!
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Because I already spent 291.00 on them and they work GREAT!
LOL, that is also a valid reason :)
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So I had about 12 miles of "Why oh WHY don't I have my canyon bars yet?" riding on hard gravel yesterday... LOL I made it but DANG that was some squirreley ****....
Try dry sand. I was thinking the same thing at the time
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8144.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8144.0)
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OK! Price kinda need to know! :-\ :-[ I am looking at a cruise control module.
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Morning guys! We're working on finishing the bar up, making a few last minute tweaks, and hopefully we'll be doing some preliminary drop testing this afternoon! If we can't get to it today, we'll be doing it tomorrow but either way drop tests are coming soon.
I wonder if anyone is thinking of getting the bars in the rough and having them line x"ed". I think if my bike ever gets scracthed up I will go flat black. Since I found a leak from the bike on the left side I am going to nickname my bike the SR-71, since it leaks while parked and likes to go fast. ;D
Someone earlier did mention getting a raw set and having it covered with Rhino Liner which is essentially the same as Line-X, I believe. I thought it sounded like a pretty cool idea, actually.
So.... my next question is.... will the canyons clear Ronnie's Highway Pegs??
Based on the photo you attached, Ronnies Highway pegs should work just fine in accordance with the Canyon Cage although it's a bit difficult to tell for sure as we don't have Ronnie's Pegs here to test. :(
OK! Price kinda need to know! :-\ :-[ I am looking at a cruise control module.
Unfortunately we won't know final MSRP pricing until the bar is totally done and we've applied all labor and material costs. The Canyon Cages are going to be in the $250-$275 range, though. I really doubt they'll be pricier than $275 and keep in mind a lot of you guys are going to get an extra 5-10% off during the group buy!
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:popcorn: :)
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:popcorn: :)
Yep... has been pretty dern quiet now....
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Leave him be, he has a set to design up for gen 1 14s!!
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Leave him be, he has a set to design up for gen 1 14s!!
:goodpost:
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fingers crossed that the drop test wasn't a disaster....
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I wish they would hurry. I have been riding my Can Am Spyder until the bars are finished!(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7205/7112512751_e0fd736bcb_m.jpg)
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fingers crossed that the drop test wasn't a disaster....
maybe ordering new plastic? ::)
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We live in a world with bikes and those bikes need to be guarded with cages, who’s gonna do it pucks, sliders, we have a greater responsibility to protect our bikes then others can possibly fathom. You weep for downed bikes and you curse the pucks, you have that luxury, you have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That bike crashes with pucks while tragic probably saves bikes, and their existence while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves bikes. You don't want the truth deep down in places you don’t protect and talk about at parties YOU WANT THE CANYON CAGE, YOU NEED THE CANYON CAGE. We use words like protection, crash, survivability, we use these words as backbone as a life spent protecting a bike you use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a bike that raise and sleeps under the very blanket of protection that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it, I rather you said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a Canyon Cage and protect your bike, either way I don't give a damn, what you think you’re entitled to with your pucks (did you order the Canyon Cage?) I did the job! (did you order the Canyon Cage) YOUR DAMN RIGHT I DID! >:( ;D
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Wow, that's quite a rant. What's the point?
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I should have explained that a little bit before posting. I had a buddy call me and said his pucks just came in and that I was slacking on protection for my Connie. I responded with that in response to his ridicule and sent that to him.
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And with reading your post of just order new plastic reminded me of the reason I want the Cage over the pucks. I had pucks on my Honda and they didnt even touch when it was blown over in the parking lot.
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ok, thanks
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I should have explained that a little bit before posting. I had a buddy call me and said his pucks just came in and that I was slacking on protection for my Connie. I responded with that in response to his ridicule and sent that to him.
+ You have to read it like Jack Nicholson :)
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We live in a world with bikes and those bikes need to be guarded with cages, who’s gonna do it pucks, sliders, we have a greater responsibility to protect our bikes then others can possibly fathom. You weep for downed bikes and you curse the pucks, you have that luxury, you have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That bike crashes with pucks while tragic probably saves bikes, and their existence while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves bikes. You don't want the truth deep down in places you don’t protect and talk about at parties YOU WANT THE CANYON CAGE, YOU NEED THE CANYON CAGE. We use words like protection, crash, survivability, we use these words as backbone as a life spent protecting a bike you use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a bike that raise and sleeps under the very blanket of protection that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it, I rather you said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a Canyon Cage and protect your bike, either way I don't give a damn, what you think you’re entitled to with your pucks (did you order the Canyon Cage?) I did the job! (did you order the Canyon Cage) YOUR DAMN RIGHT I DID! >:( ;D
This sounds like the type of discussion that I would get into with my brother, after about 10 beers each. :o
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Your absolutely right Flathead! And I can't wait to install the cage. I chalked my tires and I have worn off all the chalk on the right side but there isnt enough left hand decreasing radius turns to wear off the chalk. I am wanting to drag the foot pegs.
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We live in a world with bikes and those bikes need to be guarded with cages, who’s gonna do it pucks, sliders, we have a greater responsibility to protect our bikes then others can possibly fathom. You weep for downed bikes and you curse the pucks, you have that luxury, you have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That bike crashes with pucks while tragic probably saves bikes, and their existence while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves bikes. You don't want the truth deep down in places you don’t protect and talk about at parties YOU WANT THE CANYON CAGE, YOU NEED THE CANYON CAGE. We use words like protection, crash, survivability, we use these words as backbone as a life spent protecting a bike you use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a bike that raise and sleeps under the very blanket of protection that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it, I rather you said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a Canyon Cage and protect your bike, either way I don't give a damn, what you think you’re entitled to with your pucks (did you order the Canyon Cage?) I did the job! (did you order the Canyon Cage) YOUR DAMN RIGHT I DID! >:( ;D
Thats freaking classic right there!
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Thats freaking classic right there!
Epic rant me thinks.......
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Epic rant me thinks.......
Here is your answer...........hopefully now you can see the appreciation for his creativity.
Famous Speeches: A Few Good Men (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopNAI8Pefg#)
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Bueler Bueler Bueler Bueler Bueler Bueler Bueler Bueler Bueler Bueler Bueler
http://youtu.be/NP0mQeLWCCo (http://youtu.be/NP0mQeLWCCo)
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I know that has to be a record!
We got to page #25 before the thread was taken out into obscurity!
RANDY!!!! Please post something as that may be the only way to bring it back!!!! Please!!! :stirpot:
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I know that has to be a record!
We got to page #25 before the thread was taken out into obscurity!
RANDYRYAN!!!! Please post something as that may be the only way to bring it back!!!! Please!!! :stirpot:
fify
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Shhhhhhh, he's making silver bars slow having them powder coated :o
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Thanks 556 Alpha that is what I was thinking of when I responded back to my buddy. Well back on topic, Ryan do we have drop test pictures yet? Would love to see with and without the sadle bag bars. Also when do we need to place the group order. I have cash burning a hole in my pocket for these bars, or a new gun, or ewww shinny object, so the fast we have bars the less money I will spend on other things. Thanks again Ryan and I hope I am not making you feel rushed. :-\
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Well back on topic, Ryan do we have drop test pictures yet?
No word in days, and they are closed on Friday (tomorrow) and the weekend. So we will have a long wait now...
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I just got off the phone with Ryan. He is crafting an update for the forum and will post some news for us within the hour.
Basically, he told me that they had been making a few last minute changes and sending the bars to the paint shop today; He expects the group buy to begin next week...
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I just got off the phone with Ryan. He is crafting an update for the forum and will post some news for us within the hour.
Basically, he told me that they had been making a few last minute changes and sending the bars to the paint shop today; He expects the group buy to begin next week...
Thanks for the update. I was kinda shocked when I got home from work and still saw no update! I just assumed they ran into some snags and have to make some changes. Guess I was right. Holding my breath patiently ;)
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Hey guys! I apologize for my absence over the last few days! I hope you guys haven't taken my absence as a sign of things gone wrong, that's not the case at all! A few of our employees have been at a trade show since late last week so my customer service load has been quite a bit higher than usual as I've had to pick up some of the slack.
Anyway, we've continued grinding on these bars. We're really working hard to get them finished up because I know you guys are dying to get them on your bikes! I haven't been posting as many pictures because the design of the bar has been completed and we're making only minor structural changes to increase the strength of the cage.
Over the last few days we've been doing some light drop testing and making changes to the bar as needed but we've decided against conducting full, standing drop tests for a few reasons: Firstly, testing these bars requires the bike to be dropped repeatedly which causes quite a bit of strain on the bike. Although the owner of the bike has given us the green light on full drop testing, we're still responsible for any damage, cosmetic or structural, that happens to the bike which has made us a bit leery of testing this bike the way we did with the Connie we borrowed from Kawasaki Corporate. With that said, we've taken knowledge gained from those tests and incorporated certain things into the design of the Canyon Cage which will increase strength and durability.
Like I said though, we have been conducting drop tests on this bike/bar they just haven't been as gnarly as tests we've conducted in the past. I figured it was pointless to film these recent tests though because anything less than a full drop would probably be considered ineffectual by you guys even though these types of drops still give us quite a bit of insight. After initial testing, we noticed the lower horizontal bar was bending slightly inward so we decided to make a few minor changes. First, we changed the upper and lower front mounts slightly. The visible part of the bar has remained unchanged however we added a gusset inside the fairing to increase strength near the upper and lower front mounting point. We also thickened the rear bracket a bit and changed the wall thickness of the tube material we’re using from .083 to .093. Once they’re done getting the new .093 set welded up I’ll get some photos highlighting the aforementioned changes for you guys. Anyway, these changes should be plenty to minimize the bending so we’re very close to a finished product. We’ll be sending this set off to our powder coaters early next week and should be ready to begin a production run by early May. I’ll be setting up the Group Buy thread within a week or so for those of you interested in ordering so keep your eyes peeled!
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Very cool Ryan. 08 08 08 08 08 :)
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Very cool Ryan. 08 08 08 08 08 :)
Ditto!!!!!!!
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I dont want to be pushy but PICTURES!! :o I know we have to wait but allow us to have a picture so we can drool over the cage. ;D
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Cool! Can't wait to see what the new design looks like! I might consider changing out my current set from MCE if these new ones are THAT much better looking. ;-)
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Did I say, I can't wait for the '08 bars? ::) ::)
Just making sure I said that.
Huero
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Say it with me... 08, 08, 08, 08!!
Repeat as needed.
;)
Mike
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Anxious to see the pics
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Say it with me... 08, 08, 08, 08!!
Repeat as needed.
;)
.
Mike
08 08 08 08 actually 09, but you get the point.
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Say it with me... 08, 08, 08, 08!!
Repeat as needed.
;)
Mike
Indeed!
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Happy Monday everyone! I'll try and get some photos of the finalized design this morning for you guys. Keep in mind, though, the exterior of the bar is unchanged so it looks the same as it did before. We merely changed a few interior things to add strength. However, I'll try to get some photos which document the interior changes we made. Sorry I couldn't get them for you over the weekend but it's been insanely busy over here!
Oh and I believe we actually sent the bar to our powder coaters late Thursday so I should have the final product back within a day or two. As soon as we get the cage back, I'll be sure to get some photos for you guys so you can finally see the finished product!
Regarding the '08-'09, we have someone lined up to bring their bike in as soon as we're done with this bike so we'll get crackin' on those bars soon!
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Regarding the '08-'09, we have someone lined up to bring their bike in as soon as we're done with this bike so we'll get crackin' on those bars soon!
That is awesome!!!!!!!!
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I have this deja vu feeling :P
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Here is the finished product! I tried to get a few photos close up of the interior part of the fairing where we made changes but it was extremely hard to see what was done. Basically what we did was make a bracket that extends from the lower front mounting point (inside the fairing, this bracket is not visible) to the upper front mounting point in hopes of strengthening the front part of the bar.
Anyhow, here are some photos of the finished product! If you guys would like any other angles let me know! We'll have the bike in our shop for another day then it's headed back to its owner!
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410001.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410002.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410006.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410003.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410008.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410004.jpg)
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I like'em, but can i get black bolts? Start production, thanks again for listening to all of our input.
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OK Ryan, us gen 1 owners expect the same level of perfection, but sooner ;D ;D
Mods, I would ask that this thread be locked until Ryan and his stable of workers have created another jewel ;)
Ryan, git ta work ya shifty money making capitalist, I have money burning a hole in ma pocket :-*
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Looking good! Group buy here we come! :D
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:) ;) :D ;D :) ;) :D ;) :) Yeah PICTURES! and if you want spray paint the bolts black before you install them!! Well thank you Ryan and let us know when the group by is going to be ready.
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Anyhow, here are some photos of the finished product! If you guys would like any other angles let me know! We'll have the bike in our shop for another day then it's headed back to its owner!
Thanks for the pics! You are right, they look the same! Now I just have to pretend what they would like like in chrome on a silver bike :)
About the bolt color comments- if black is available, that would probably go well if the customer orders black bars. But not if they order chrome!
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They look great, looking forward to the 08/09 design.
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...
About the bolt color comments- if black is available, that would probably go well if the customer orders black bars. But not if they order chrome!
Or black caps like the one at the back bar (and the ones that come stock for the riser bolts).
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I like'em, but can i get black bolts? Start production, thanks again for listening to all of our input.
More black? Keep it up and all she will be good for is a calm Sunday ride ;)
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More black? Keep it up and all she will be good for is a calm Sunday ride ;)
Right after Saturday at the track.
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IMHO, they look awesome. I think they are the best on the market.
Good job!!!!
Huero
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Right after Saturday at the track.
2 or 3 rail trailer? ;D
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About the bolt color comments- if black is available, that would probably go well if the customer orders black bars. But not if they order chrome!
My gut says the black bars will sell 50 to 1 over chrome, so why not make the bolts match the bars for the majority of customers...
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My gut says the black bars will sell 50 to 1 over chrome, so why not make the bolts match the bars for the majority of customers...
+1 ;D
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Any chance you can paint these bars "Candy Red" (fastest color you know) along with the bolts.
OK, just kidding ;D ;D ;D ;D :deadhorse: :grouphug:
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Hi Ryan ,
Congratulations on a great job with these bars, particularly the way they protected the mirrors in a fully horizontal lay down. You were quite correct in the way they blend in and are unobtrusive when painted black.
A couple of questions:
1. Will these be made available to overseas customers. I am in South Africa and really need a set of these as would have been the top CDA member if I hadn't been too embarrassed to join.
2. What was the final decision on a video of a drop test. Has this been canned due to the potential cost risk ?
3. Will you be showing a lay down without the back bars as requested or has already been shown somewhere ?
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I have this deja vu feeling :P
Again?
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Nice job Ryan! Very well done.
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My gut says the black bars will sell 50 to 1 over chrome, so why not make the bolts match the bars for the majority of customers...
With that logic, why not sell only black bars, then?
Choice is a good thing, not bad.
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Congratulations on a great job with these bars, particularly the way they protected the mirrors in a fully horizontal lay down.
Actually, they will NOT protect the mirrors in a full-over. They will probably help prevent them from breaking or being bent or destroyed, but they will take it hit.
You were quite correct in the way they blend in and are unobtrusive when painted black.
Only on a dark or black bike...
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Black, chrome, raw, thats all well and good HOW MUCH??? I can't wait to put these bars on and I am really wanting to do some low speed knee dragging and having the cage will give me that confidence.
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Can't wait to see the 08-09 version.
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Do we get to see any drop pics ? They look great. Can't wait till I get her back. And have some fun in the canyons.
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I like'em, but can i get black bolts? Start production, thanks again for listening to all of our input.
We've never used black bolts but I don't think it'd be too hard to swap them out. I personally think the chrome hardware is a nice little accent but to each their own. Unfortunately I don't think we'll be supplying black hardware but one could easily paint the bolt or replace it with a black one if they so desire.
OK Ryan, us gen 1 owners expect the same level of perfection, but sooner ;D ;D
We'll definitely do our best to create a similar product for the '08-'09s! It will definitely come quicker because we'll basically just modify the current bar to fit the earlier generation bikes with some minor aesthetic tweaks to make it flow with the fairings. All you guys with an '08-'09, stay tuned!
Looking good! Group buy here we come! :D
Thanks! As soon as Donnell has worked up the pricing I'll be starting the Group Buy thread! I just need to know how much to discount those of you who participate. Hopefully Donnell can have the pricing done by the end of the week meaning the Group Buy should be starting by early next week!
Hi Ryan ,
Congratulations on a great job with these bars, particularly the way they protected the mirrors in a fully horizontal lay down. You were quite correct in the way they blend in and are unobtrusive when painted black.
A couple of questions:
1. Will these be made available to overseas customers. I am in South Africa and really need a set of these as would have been the top CDA member if I hadn't been too embarrassed to join.
2. What was the final decision on a video of a drop test. Has this been canned due to the potential cost risk ?
3. Will you be showing a lay down without the back bars as requested or has already been shown somewhere ?
Thanks julian! Unfortunately, though, the bars do not fully protect the mirrors in a full horizontal lay down. They do protect the mirrors well during a typical tip over but when the bike goes all the way over, the mirrors will take a little bit of a hit. Based on our testing the mirrors shouldn't be hit hard enough to break but they will most likely be scuffed up and folded in. However, all situations are different and yield different results.
Anyway, these will be available to customers overseas. You can purchase them through me via email or over the phone with a credit card or you can use PayPal if it's more convenient for you. Either way works great for us. Regarding videos of the drop test, yea we basically decided to scrap that. We did drop the bike from varying heights to test the bars but it was extremely difficult to see much in the videos and we assumed anything less than a full drop wouldn't be accepted so we just decided to scrap the video idea. We also decided against doing lay downs without the rear bags and bars on due to the potential for damage to the exhaust. I understand some of you guys ride without the bags on but the exhaust would definitely take a hit so we didn't want to risk that. I can tell you, though, that the bar would still protect the front end of the bike. It's just the exhaust that's at risk when you remove the rear bags/bars.
Black, chrome, raw, thats all well and good HOW MUCH??? I can't wait to put these bars on and I am really wanting to do some low speed knee dragging and having the cage will give me that confidence.
Yesss! I'm hoping these bars will really give some of you guys the confidence to push the boundaries! Regarding price, I have to wait til Armando has assessed all of the labor and material and gives that information to Donnell. Donnell will then work up a price and let me know at which point I'll fill you guys in! I'm hoping to have a firm price by the end of the week, early next week at the very latest. I'm thinking the cost will probably be around $275ish though.
Do we get to see any drop pics ? They look great. Can't wait till I get her back. And have some fun in the canyons.
There are some photos of when we laid the bike over back on page 35-40 or so. We decided against the video for reasons I posted above but there are some photos you can check out a few pages back of the bike on its side and what part of the bike hits when. If you'd like a few more photos of the bike on its side, I may be able to lay it over one last time and take some additional angles.
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I'm thoroughly impressed by the look of these bars!!
Will the group buy be for just the fronts? Or, will there be some discount for those that need the rear bars too?
Anyone know the exact sizes of those mounting bolts? I'm sure I can find black ones if I just know what size they are.
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I'm thoroughly impressed by the look of these bars!!
Will the group buy be for just the fronts? Or, will there be some discount for those that need the rear bars too?
Anyone know the exact sizes of those mounting bolts? I'm sure I can find black ones if I just know what size they are.
Thanks, Wally! I'm actually quite impressed with how the black looks as well! I was excited to get the bars back from our powder coaters but the bars look even better on the bike than I had initially anticipated! Anyhow, the Group Buy will mainly be for the Canyon Cage but the discounts will also apply to the rear guards as well for those of you who don't have them. The bolt in question is a 10mm x 1.25 x 45 or 50mm. I can't remember for sure if it was a 45mm or 50mm length but I can find out for sure in a bit when I speak with Armando as we're planning on making up the instructions later today.
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Thanks for the photos! I've still got the "bathroom bars" and thankfully haven't gotten to test them yet to see if they provide better protection for the entire bike vs these. Does anyone know if the earlier version MCE bars were supposed to protect the mirrors or not?
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Well done Ryan, persistance definitely paid off with an excellent looking product.
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Thanks for the photos! I've still got the "bathroom bars" and thankfully haven't gotten to test them yet to see if they provide better protection for the entire bike vs these. Does anyone know if the earlier version MCE bars were supposed to protect the mirrors or not?
Yes, watch their drop vid here... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7593.msg91307#msg91307 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7593.msg91307#msg91307)
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Yes, watch their drop vid here... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7593.msg91307#msg91307 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7593.msg91307#msg91307)
Thanks!
Yeah those "bathroom bars" look quite sturdy in that video. I might just hang on to them for a while. It might be a good payoff some day to have that much protection overall.
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I don't think anyone has questioned the protection ability of the bathroom bars. It's a question of aesthetics. There's form, and there's function, and to many, the bathroom bars are too much function over form. That's CERTAINLY not true for everyone, and it's not a criticism of any who hold that opinion either way.
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Nice disclaimer there Necron ;)
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I don't think anyone has questioned the protection ability of the bathroom bars. It's a question of aesthetics. There's form, and there's function, and to many, the bathroom bars are too much function over form. That's CERTAINLY not true for everyone, and it's not a criticism of any who hold that opinion either way.
This was a great way of putting it! The bathroom bars do offer a lot of protection at the unfortunate expense of aesthetics. They sure work well but aren't the prettiest bars out there. We're hoping the Canyon Cage is a perfect middle ground for those of you who want protection that looks good while doing its job!
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I honestly wasn't even trying to be "pc" about it... beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. I have a facebook friend who LOVES her bathroom bars, got them in chrome, thinks they're the bee's knees... Who am I to say? I'm sure there are people who think my Neptune Blue is the ugliest color on the planet. Good thing I'm the one riding it and not that guy. LOL
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:goodpost:
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When I bought my 2010 Connie, the deciding factor was either a new 2011 or a used 2010 Neptune Blue ... I love the color... I'm glad I had a choice... silverdammit is pretty cool, too, but as my signature line says, "Neptune Blue gets more chicks."
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There are some photos of when we laid the bike over back on page 35-40 or so. We decided against the video for reasons I posted above but there are some photos you can check out a few pages back of the bike on its side and what part of the bike hits when. If you'd like a few more photos of the bike on its side, I may be able to lay it over one last time and take some additional angles.
I think this would be a good idea. If nothing else, you will want some nice "file photos" for promotional use or archival/etc. The previous photos were unfinished and with lots of green tape all over the bike. Take your time and get as much as you can before the bike is gone- it will be worth the 30 or 45 minutes! Try with different settings and flash/flashless, at different angles and distances and such.
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Will the 08/09 bars need the extra loop on them? Does it need to be there? I can see a vertical bar, and a horizontal bar. Is the extra loop really needed?
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Are you talking about the rear bars? They make a loop when looking from the front.
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Hi Ryan ,
Is there any possibility of including swing arm and front fork sliders with the group buy package and how do you think they would work in conjunction with the bars.
Looking at ZG's pics of the Top Block ones with his recent drive way tip , they did seem to offer some protection to the exhaust.
I would also like to extend my thanks to Zulu for unselfishly offering his bike as the test bike for the bars. Much appreciated .
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Will the 08/09 bars need the extra loop on them? Does it need to be there? I can see a vertical bar, and a horizontal bar. Is the extra loop really needed?
I'm not quite sure what loop you're referring to but everything we did to the cage was done for one reason or another. We wanted these to be as low profile as possible while still offering great protection so we really tried to avoid any unnecessary material or additions. We'll be using the cage we just completed as a sort of template but it'll be a brand new design with all unnecessary things removed. As far as what will or will not be needed, we won't really know until we get the bike in and begin preliminary design but you can bet we're going to do our best to create a low profile product that looks as well as it performs.
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Hi Ryan ,
Is there any possibility of including swing arm and front fork sliders with the group buy package and how do you think they would work in conjunction with the bars.
Looking at ZG's pics of the Top Block ones with his recent drive way tip , they did seem to offer some protection to the exhaust.
I would also like to extend my thanks to Zulu for unselfishly offering his bike as the test bike for the bars. Much appreciated .
What swing arm and front fork sliders are you referring to? Are they made by another company? The Group Buy will be for the Canyon Cage and small saddlebag guards that we make only. I'm not sure if another product from another company is going to work in accordance with our products because we have no way to test them together. If someone else has the rear swing arm and front fork sliders you're referring to perhaps they would know.
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I'm not quite sure what loop you're referring to but everything we did to the cage was done for one reason or another. We wanted these to be as low profile as possible while still offering great protection so we really tried to avoid any unnecessary material or additions. We'll be using the cage we just completed as a sort of template but it'll be a brand new design with all unnecessary things removed. As far as what will or will not be needed, we won't really know until we get the bike in and begin preliminary design but you can bet we're going to do our best to create a low profile product that looks as well as it performs.
The L shaped bar that connects the horizontal bar with the vertical bar. Adding it kinda makes a rectangle loop.
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Hi Ryan ,
The fork and swing arm sliders referred to were made by Topblock in France. I was hoping you may have had something similar on your range which would then make a nice complete package and simplified my logistics.
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Hi Ryan ,
The fork and swing arm sliders referred to were made by Topblock in France. I was hoping you may have had something similar on your range which would then make a nice complete package and simplified my logistics.
Projekt D also has sliders.
http://projektd.com/index.php?cPath=27_39_40&osCsid=03f8229bdf179540faa44b59aebe0419 (http://projektd.com/index.php?cPath=27_39_40&osCsid=03f8229bdf179540faa44b59aebe0419)
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Projekt D also has sliders.
http://projektd.com/index.php?cPath=27_39_40&osCsid=03f8229bdf179540faa44b59aebe0419 (http://projektd.com/index.php?cPath=27_39_40&osCsid=03f8229bdf179540faa44b59aebe0419)
I think ZG said the French things are longer than the Asian things. :-[
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The L shaped bar that connects the horizontal bar with the vertical bar. Adding it kinda makes a rectangle loop.
Ahhh okay I know what bar you mean. That bar had to be added to reinforce the lower horizontal bar which would have bended in towards the bike in a harder spill had we not added the upper horizontal. Also, when the bike rocks over that initial hit point, that bar is the one that keeps the mirrors and handle bars from taking a bad hit and helps hold the bike off the ground. Aside from that, I think the rectangle actually helps the bar flow with the fairings better because we bent the top of the rectangle so it flows at the same angle as the fairing vents. Lastly, I think that upper horizontal bar helps the Canyon Cage go with our small saddlebag guards as well which a lot of people use in accordance with one another.
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Hi Ryan ,
The fork and swing arm sliders referred to were made by Topblock in France. I was hoping you may have had something similar on your range which would then make a nice complete package and simplified my logistics.
Ahhh okay, I'm familiar with those sliders. Unfortunately we don't offer anything like that so I can't include them in the Ground Buy for you. :'( Honestly though, it doesn't really seem like either would be necessary if one were to use the Canyon Cage and small saddlebag guards together. Both those bars used together offer a significant amount of protection.
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Ok, Got her back today. Dam that cage looks awesome !!! In person . They follow the lines of the fairing vents . And since they are black. They almost disappear , and look like it is part of the bike from the manufacturer . From a distance you can’t tell they are there . I am 5’10” and had no issues with my shins hitting the bars . I was worried bars would be in the way.
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Ok, Got her back today. Dam that cage looks awesome !!! In person . They follow the lines of the fairing vents . And since they are black. They almost disappear , and look like it is part of the bike from the manufacturer . From a distance you can’t tell they are there . I am 5’10” and had no issues with my shins hitting the bars . I was worried bars would be in the way.
Glad you got your bike home and thanks for loaning it for the crash bar build.
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Guess I will be keeping my bathroom bars. If Ryan is not confident enough that the Canyon Cages will prevent damage to the mirrors during a drop test, then I will not have any confidence in them now. Right now, I have the peace of mind knowing that if I drop the bike, it will be okay, and for me that was the issue. Add the price of the Canyon Cages and a new mirror and that can be expensive. Or you can have a scratched mirror which most likely you would have if you lost your balance at the pumps, parking lot, etc and laid it over and slowed the descent of the bike until it finally laid over.
I bought my bars for the drop and knowing I can get flat black paint and touch them up.
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I'm in the group waiting for the 08 model. So I was looking for a highway peg that is subtle and will tuck out of the way when not needed and I think these fit the bill perfectly. What do you think? Any better solutions while we wait?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lindby-Black-Wide-Band-Cruise-Highway-Pegs-/120902578639?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c265af1cf&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lindby-Black-Wide-Band-Cruise-Highway-Pegs-/120902578639?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c265af1cf&vxp=mtr)
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Nice looking but Ryan is using 7/8 bar I believe.
We may have trouble finding something. A look through JPCycles showed 1',1 1/8, 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 mounts.
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Sounds like the best choice for you, Wendel, absolutely. There are compromises in the world and we all choose which is more important.
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I have been following this thread and was prepared to make a trade and loose a little for the other bars, until Ryan posted his reasons for not drop testing. They look good you are correct. Different folks have different wants. They do look go though.
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(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410006.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410008.jpg)
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/blackpolice.jpg)
You can just look at them and tell the cage won't protect as well as the bathroom bars, but they do look so much better especially with black bolts. :D :D
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You can just look at them and tell the cage won't protect as well as the bathroom bars, but they do look so much better. :)
No kidding! The difference is that the bathroom bars are so ugly, they would never be on the bike, The cage would be. Therefore, the cage has better protection!
:o
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Hey everyone! We finally got pricing worked up and it looks like they'll be going for $300 MSRP. However, there will definitely be a nice discount for those of you who participate in the group buy. We'll probably do a similar set up where there are tiered discounts based on how many people order but I'm hoping for a maximum discount of 25% so you're looking at closer to $225 for the Canyon Cage if you get in on the group buy! That's a hell of a deal! I'll be starting a new thread for the group buy so stay tuned for that if you're interested in purchasing a set.
Ok, Got her back today. Dam that cage looks awesome !!! In person . They follow the lines of the fairing vents . And since they are black. They almost disappear , and look like it is part of the bike from the manufacturer . From a distance you can’t tell they are there . I am 5’10” and had no issues with my shins hitting the bars . I was worried bars would be in the way.
I'm glad you like them, Zulu! They sure do look great in person, don't they? Also, I'm glad to hear you had no clearance issues with your shins. In the photos it looks like they may be close but unless you're dang near 6'8" or so, you shouldn't have any issues. Thanks again for letting us use the bike! You're the best!
Guess I will be keeping my bathroom bars. If Ryan is not confident enough that the Canyon Cages will prevent damage to the mirrors during a drop test, then I will not have any confidence in them now. Right now, I have the peace of mind knowing that if I drop the bike, it will be okay, and for me that was the issue. Add the price of the Canyon Cages and a new mirror and that can be expensive. Or you can have a scratched mirror which most likely you would have if you lost your balance at the pumps, parking lot, etc and laid it over and slowed the descent of the bike until it finally laid over.
I bought my bars for the drop and knowing I can get flat black paint and touch them up.
I think some of you guys may be underestimating the level of protection the Canyon Cages will provide and that may be partly my fault based on how I worded things. In slow-to-no speed tip overs (like at a stop light or at the bottom of your driveway) the Canyon Cage will definitely protect the entire bike. In these types of tip overs the bike stops at the position pictured below which, as you can see, holds the entire bike (as well as the mirrors) off the ground thus protecting them from taking damage.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0154.jpg)
This type of spill reminds me of what ZG went through with his Top Blocks installed (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8315.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8315.0)). You can see how his bike came to rest at that "45 degree" type of angle where his mirrors are held off the ground. You can expect very similar protection from the Canyon Cages.
The only time the Canyon Cage is not going to protect the mirrors is during a much higher speed spill in which the bike has enough force to rock over that initial point (which is actually relatively difficult to do). The photo below shows how the Cage holds the bike up during such an incident however this is when the mirrors may take a bit of a hit.
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0160.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/IMG_0162.jpg)
I'm in the group waiting for the 08 model. So I was looking for a highway peg that is subtle and will tuck out of the way when not needed and I think these fit the bill perfectly. What do you think? Any better solutions while we wait?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lindby-Black-Wide-Band-Cruise-Highway-Pegs-/120902578639?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c265af1cf&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lindby-Black-Wide-Band-Cruise-Highway-Pegs-/120902578639?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c265af1cf&vxp=mtr)
Those look like they'd work just fine. We actually ended up using 1" bar so the Canyon Cage would match the diameter of the small saddle bag guards we make which are also 1" material. Also, a 1" bar will make it much easier for those of you interested in highway pegs to find a set that will fit!
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Ryan,
Man those look absolute great! My hats off to you guys for doing this. My wife bought a concours for me at Christmas and I was about to pull the trigger for the r&g bars over at twisted throttle. Then, I saw this thread start up. I have an 08' so I will wait till the group buy on those. Anyway, thanks for building such great products.
Huero
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Not to be sarcastic, but at what point did the bike tip over completely to the side. Was it during the full drop test? I do not imagine in the shop you were able to get up much speed and then have an employee drop the bike. From my perspective it does not seem it would take much for the bike to go past the Canyon Cages first stop. Looks like anything more than an assisted lay down will cause it to roll over past the initial strike zone. My reason for this post is, I really like the new design, and unfortunately, we do not have a drop test as your original video that was posted on line.
If I understand you correctly, these were designed for the assisted lay down that happens when you come to a stop or loose your footing/balance while stopped.
Earlier you had posted that the people who had bought the original bars would be given sometype of trade in deal. Have you worked that up or are the original group buy people now expected to sell the front bars on their own? Thanks for the effort and amount of time you have put forth on this project and the last group buy.
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Ryan,
Man those look absolute great! I hats off to you guys for doing this. My wife bought a concours for me at Christmas and I was about to pull the trigger for the r&g bars over at twisted throttle. Then, I saw this thread start up. I have an 08' so I will wait till the group injury on those. Anyway, thanks for building such great products.
Huero
Wow, she's a keeper!
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Wow, she's a keeper!
For sure. She kept it a secret. Got financed at the bank even had a buddy in on it. She got him to deliver it on Christmas morning in an enclosed trailer(we live in idaho). I am still blown away. I knew there was a reason I married her.
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Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm curious...how did she know exactly what to buy you and still have it be a surprise? My wife complains that I'm so particular she's afraid of buying stuff like motorcycles, gear, electronics because she's afraid she won't get what I want.
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Ryan,
Man those look absolute great! I hats off to you guys for doing this. My wife bought a concours for me at Christmas and I was about to pull the trigger for the r&g bars over at twisted throttle. Then, I saw this thread start up. I have an 08' so I will wait till the group injury on those. Anyway, thanks for building such great products.
Huero
Thanks, Huero! Hopefully we'll be getting the '08-'09 bike in sometime soon. We neglected a bit of normal business while building these bars so it may be 2-3 weeks before we get another bike in our shop but it's definitely on our agenda. I'll keep you guys updated as well when I hear more on when we may be getting the bike in!
Not to be sarcastic, but at what point did the bike tip over completely to the side. Was it during the full drop test? I do not imagine in the shop you were able to get up much speed and then have an employee drop the bike. From my perspective it does not seem it would take much for the bike to go past the Canyon Cages first stop. Looks like anything more than an assisted lay down will cause it to roll over past the initial strike zone. My reason for this post is, I really like the new design, and unfortunately, we do not have a drop test as your original video that was posted on line.
If I understand you correctly, these were designed for the assisted lay down that happens when you come to a stop or loose your footing/balance while stopped.
Earlier you had posted that the people who had bought the original bars would be given sometype of trade in deal. Have you worked that up or are the original group buy people now expected to sell the front bars on their own? Thanks for the effort and amount of time you have put forth on this project and the last group buy.
That didn't sound sarcastic at all, it's a valid concern! We laid the bike completely over on its side to get those photos I posted, it didn't happen during any of the drop tests. We did do a number of unassisted drops from about half way over in which the bike came to rest at that 45 degree spot. Seeing as how real world tip overs are rarely "unassisted" (most people are on the bike when it goes over and have time to get their feet down to slow the fall a tad) we figured the tests would suffice. We have done extensive drop tests with our bathroom bars (including full unassisted drops) and have learned a great deal from those tests. Even though the application has changed, many of the theories remain the same. Also, it actually does take quite a bit of force for the bike to roll over that initial impact point especially because the Canyon Cage is flatter on the bike than our bathroom bars. The bathroom bars are a tad bit rounder at the impact point which actually causes the bike to roll over a bit easier. However, the added protection of the bathroom bars helps account for the easier roll over. ZG may be able to help me explain how much force is really needed for the bike to rock over that initial hit point because our Canyon Cage hits the ground in a similar fashion as the TopBlocks do and he's seen the bike go over first hand. The bike is actually pretty sturdy at the 45 degree angle spot.
These bars were designed to offer as much protection as possible while remaining low profile enough for those of you who do intense canyon riding. These bars definitely offer protection for assisted and no-to-low speed tip overs but I believe they'll also help protect the bike during a range of other situations as well. It's just impossible to know exactly how much until we start selling sets and have people field "test" them. Based on knowledge gained from the testing we did with the Canyon Cage as well as the bathroom bars in the past, I truly believe we've created a product that will hold up well. They almost look too low profile to truly protect the bike the way our bathroom bars do but I believe people will be surprised once they start hearing reviews from people who end up purchasing the bars.
The people who bought the bathroom bars during the first group buy are SCREWED! Hah! Totally kidding, wendel. ;D I will work with those of you who purchased the front bars during the group buy if you'd like to trade them in for the Canyon Cages. The Canyon Cages are going to be a bit less expensive so we'll most likely have the people send the bathroom bars back to us, send them the Canyon Cage, and then refund the difference. I'll have to handle those cases on a one-by-one basis though. Keep in mind that we have to resell the bathroom bars though so they have to be in perfect condition. We won't be able to handle an exchange if the bar is bent from a tip-over however if there are any scuffs or marks (including stuff like washer marks from installation) we'll take the exchange and have to charge the customer to have the bars stripped and redone. I know this is a bit strict but we value quality highly and don't want to resell products that are not in perfect condition as a courtesy to our future customers.
Phew! Sorry for that wall of text! It took more than I initially assumed to address your concerns! Hahahaha.
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Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm curious...how did she know exactly what to buy you and still have it be a surprise? My wife complains that I'm so particular she's afraid of buying stuff like motorcycles, gear, electronics because she's afraid she won't get what I want.
She should read your mind like you're suppose to read hers...
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She should read your mind like you're suppose to read hers...
I've tried that approach....didn't work out well.
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She had paid attention to me all last summer as I kept looking for one. But, I couldn't find one that was clean enough for the money. So, she found one and bought it. Takes guts in my book.
I just want to keep it nice and think the canyon bars can help me keep scratches at bay.
Huero
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She had paid attention to me all last summer as I kept looking for one. But, I couldn't find one that was clean enough for the money. So, she found one and bought it. Takes guts in my book.
I just want to keep it nice and think the canyon bars can help me keep scratches at bay.
Huero
That's pretty awesome.
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Thanks Ryan.
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Ryan,
As far as the group buys go on the new Canyon cages, are there going to be two different and totally separate buys, one for the 08/09s and one for the newer models?
With the tiered discount, x number of bars sold for y% of discount, will you be including the number of 08/09s in the count of the newer models lumping them all together for the total amount sold?
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Thanks Ryan.
Sorry that was such a long response but you're welcome! I hope I addressed your concerns!
Ryan,
As far as the group buys go on the new Canyon cages, are there going to be two different and totally separate buys, one for the 08/09s and one for the newer models?
With the tiered discount, x number of bars sold for y% of discount, will you be including the number of 08/09s in the count of the newer models lumping them all together for the total amount sold?
As of right now I believe we're planning on doing two separate group buys, one for each generation. We're planning on doing it this way for a few reasons: I believe we'll have enough sets sold of each for people with both bikes to get the maximum discount and it seems it'll work out best this way based on the timing. We've neglected other normal business while getting these bars made so we need at least a two week break to catch up on stuff we've temporarily set aside. Also, we're not quite sure yet when the person with the 2009 will be able to loan us his bike but we assume it'll be within 2-3 weeks. I also think doing them separate will help minimize confusion for people as well. I'm assuming your main concern was everyone getting the maximum discount, correct? It wouldn't really be fair if the guys with the 2010-2012 got a better deal because there we're more of those bars purchased but based on the response we're getting I don't think we'll have to worry about that.
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ZG may be able to help me explain how much force is really needed for the bike to rock over that initial hit point because our Canyon Cage hits the ground in a similar fashion as the TopBlocks do and he's seen the bike go over first hand. The bike is actually pretty sturdy at the 45 degree angle spot.
Yep, I agree with Ryan. When my Connie went over she came to rest very securely at that 45 degree angle, she didn't even rock or teeter over at all.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG01050-20120421-1648.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG01049-20120421-1648.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG01044-20120421-1647.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG01045-20120421-1647.jpg)
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Yep, I agree with Ryan. When my Connie went over she came to rest very securely at that 45 degree angle, she didn't even rock or teeter over at all.
Thanks, ZG! Yea, it's more sturdy at that 45 degree spot than people would initially assume based on the photos. I think it's because at that angle, the engine (where the majority of the weight is) is actually really close to the ground which helps keep the bike steady. It would take quite a nasty spill to rock over that point and damage the mirrors I believe. Keep in mind that most real world tip overs are assisted as well. Generally the rider has time to get their feet on the ground which takes some of the force away from the impact.
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Just send ZG some of them new bars. He will be happy to do a full upright drop test for you... ;D
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Anything so he can get pictures of his bike and post them on the forum ::)
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Just send ZG some of them new bars. He will be happy to do a full upright drop test for you... ;D
;D ;D ;D
Anything so he can get pictures of his bike and post them on the forum ::)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/kdfkjfew.gif)
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Ryan,
As far as the group buys go on the new Canyon cages, are there going to be two different and totally separate buys, one for the 08/09s and one for the newer models?
With the tiered discount, x number of bars sold for y% of discount, will you be including the number of 08/09s in the count of the newer models lumping them all together for the total amount sold?
As of right now I believe we're planning on doing two separate group buys, one for each generation. We're planning on doing it this way for a few reasons: I believe we'll have enough sets sold of each for people with both bikes to get the maximum discount and it seems it'll work out best this way based on the timing. We've neglected other normal business while getting these bars made so we need at least a two week break to catch up on stuff we've temporarily set aside. Also, we're not quite sure yet when the person with the 2009 will be able to loan us his bike but we assume it'll be within 2-3 weeks. I also think doing them separate will help minimize confusion for people as well. I'm assuming your main concern was everyone getting the maximum discount, correct? It wouldn't really be fair if the guys with the 2010-2012 got a better deal because there we're more of those bars purchased but based on the response we're getting I don't think we'll have to worry about that.
Actually, I was only concerned about us folks with the fastest bikes (08s/09s) getting the max discount. But hey, whatever is fair. ;)
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Ok, Got her back today. Dam that cage looks awesome !!! In person . They follow the lines of the fairing vents .
That is GREAT that you are so happy. And we all thank you for being the test subject for so long :)
And since they are black. They almost disappear , and look like it is part of the bike from the manufacturer.
That is because your bike is black. About half of us do not have a black bike. I think it will be OK with the dark colors (dark blue, dark burgundy) but silver and neutron (and some others) might not look right with black. Guess we will see. I am leaning towards chrome for my silver bike.... I have the chrome small rears, and those work surprisingly well.
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That is because your bike is black. About half of us do not have a black bike. I think it will be OK with the dark colors (dark blue, dark burgundy) but silver and neutron (and some others) might not look right with black. Guess we will see. I am leaning towards chrome for my silver bike.... I have the chrome small rears, and those work surprisingly well.
Max,
Aren't the lowers on your slower silver Connie black, and also quite a bit of trim bits black?? :-\
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Aren't the lowers on your slower silver Connie black, and also quite a bit of trim bits black?? :-\
Yes. All the Concourses have flat black lower fairings. Except for black bikes, all Concourses have a non-black upper fairing. The canyons span over about half the lower and half the upper. So if you get black, it will half match and half not. If you get chrome or any similar color to your bike it will half match and half not.
In my case, I learned something that surprised me when I put the chrome rear bars on. Since the silver bike already has black lowers, dash, grips, seat, rear, and bag trim, but silver bags, pegs, exhaust, discs, and swing arms, and chrome headlight reflectors, heat shield, and discs, it looks quite decent. The mixture "works". I think it will work the same with the chrome front bars.
I think those with non-silver and non-black bikes are going to have the hardest time deciding what to do from a color standpoint. I have a feeling the chrome bars will only really work on a silver bike (and MAYBE a Neutron bike). For all others, black might be best, or perhaps color-matched.
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That's why Dalroo and I are planning on color matching our '10s.... :D Should look RIGHT slick.
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+1 !!!! Let's go!
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I would be buying these for slow speed drops, not crashes. I do not think that even the bathroom bars will help in a true CRASH. Dropping the bike past 45degrees is known as turtleing the bike and it has to be a very hard fall, much more than a slow speed DROP. I look forward to the 08/09 design. You guys with the fruffy silver bikes just need to powder coat them whatever color floats your boat and quit worrying about it. I think you should just use Candy Diamond Red, at least it would make them faster.
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I would be buying these for slow speed drops, not crashes. I do not think that even the bathroom bars will help in a true CRASH. Dropping the bike past 45degrees is known as turtleing the bike and it has to be a very hard fall, much more than a slow speed DROP. I look forward to the 08/09 design. You guys with the fruffy silver bikes just need to powder coat them whatever color floats your boat and quit worrying about it. I think you should just use Candy Diamond Red, at least it would make them faster.
That would be fruffy Silverdammit thank you very much and we don't need the added drag from Candy A$$ Red slowing us down. 8)
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I think they look great! And the discount price is great as well. I'll go with the black for my Atomic Silver bike since most of the bar is in the black lower area, and the rest blendsinto the black holes of the venting. I also don't like polishing chrome.
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I think they look great! And the discount price is great as well. I'll go with the black for my Atomic Silver bike since most of the bar is in the black lower area, and the rest blends into the black holes of the venting. I also don't like polishing chrome.
Actually, from the side, exactly half the bar is over the silver and half is over the black. Also, if you are CLOSER to the bike and looking down, most of the bar will appear to over the silver areas. But you are correct that black might work OK too, since the vent areas of much (but not all) of the rest of the bar is in the darker vent area.
Not sure about the polishing thing... quality chrome finishes should not tarnish or discolor... you just wash them like the rest of the bike. At least, that is what I have noticed so far...
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I would be buying these for slow speed drops, not crashes. I do not think that even the bathroom bars will help in a true CRASH. Dropping the bike past 45degrees is known as turtleing the bike and it has to be a very hard fall, much more than a slow speed DROP. I look forward to the 08/09 design. You guys with the fruffy silver bikes just need to powder coat them whatever color floats your boat and quit worrying about it. I think you should just use Candy Diamond Red, at least it would make them faster.
+1
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That would be fruffy Silverdammit thank you very much and we don't need the added drag from Candy A$$ Red slowing us down. 8)
:rotflmao:
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That would be fruffy Silverdammit thank you very much and we don't need the added drag from Candy A$$ Red slowing us down. 8)
:thumbs:
Red bars on a Silverdammit would cause the bike to be more apt to tip over anyways.
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Ryan- another question about us bathroom bars owners. If I decide to get in on the group buy for the Canyon Cages, can I just order and once I receive the Canyon Cage, return the bathroom bars? I do not want to be without crash protection for a week or so and I ride daily. I alreay put them to use twice in sugar sand and was completely unconcerned each time about the possibility of any damage. I was quite calm and did not think twice about the drop. I figure you are going to deduct for powder coating them again anyway.
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Thats the spirit Wendel, I think I'm going to start a thread for a group buy for something not built yet, maybe a little incentive for Ryan to ignore us for awhile so he can get caught up on buisness and then build a set of gen one bars. Maybe along with a poll?
For the record, I will be ordering a set as soon as they are ready.
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Ryan- another question about us bathroom bars owners. If I decide to get in on the group buy for the Canyon Cages, can I just order and once I receive the Canyon Cage, return the bathroom bars? I do not want to be without crash protection for a week or so and I ride daily. I alreay put them to use twice in sugar sand and was completely unconcerned each time about the possibility of any damage. I was quite calm and did not think twice about the drop. I figure you are going to deduct for powder coating them again anyway.
We do do returns/exchanges this way from time to time so I don't see it being an issue. Generally what we do with exchanges is take your credit card information and send out the new product without charging your card. Then we'll generally give the customer 2 weeks to return the original product to us at which point we charge the card if the product doesn't arrive. Once the product arrives we'll put it through our QC and determine whether it needs to be stripped and redone or not.
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So what kind of timeline are we looking at for the 10-12 model group buy? IE, we can I give you my credit card, when will shipping begin? :D Not that I'm impatient or anything... ;) It's FUN having people rabid for your product line, isn't it? (I manage customer service for a company that's experiencing titanic growth, so I know...it's fun!)
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So what kind of timeline are we looking at for the 10-12 model group buy? IE, we can I give you my credit card, when will shipping begin? :D Not that I'm impatient or anything... ;) It's FUN having people rabid for your product line, isn't it? (I manage customer service for a company that's experiencing titanic growth, so I know...it's fun!)
From MCE's website.
"#1400-410
Canyon Cages (Kawasaki Concours 1400 2010-2012)
Low profile bars to help protect the fairings in a low or no speed drop. These bars are made here in the USA with 1" steel tubing and need no cutting or drilling to mount on a stock bike. We are offering them in Black Powdercoat or Raw. Our first production run will be available mid-June 2012. You can visit the forum at http://www.zggtr.org (http://www.zggtr.org) for more information and to see how this product was developed with customer input. Contact us directly to order. "
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That kind of sucks. It might be the best they can do, but that seems like a long time. BTW, I'm the impatient type as well.
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Sounds like a very reasonable policy. I know mine will have to be stripped from the installation and the drop in the sugar sand.
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Ryan, are we going to have the pleasure of continuing this thread to assist you in the design of the Gen1 bars. Hate to let an epic like this go. :)
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So what kind of timeline are we looking at for the 10-12 model group buy? IE, we can I give you my credit card, when will shipping begin? :D Not that I'm impatient or anything... ;) It's FUN having people rabid for your product line, isn't it? (I manage customer service for a company that's experiencing titanic growth, so I know...it's fun!)
It's definitely nice to see people excited for a product I had a direct hand in designing! I'm planning on starting the group buy on Monday, May 7th which is when the bars are going into production. At that time you guys can begin placing orders. The group buy will probably end in about 3-4 weeks (I haven't quite figured out a firm date to end the group buy as of yet) which would be about 2 weeks prior to the completion of the bars. That way I will know how many people want black, chrome, or raw so I know how many sets of each I'll need to fill the orders.
TL;DR - Group Buy begins May 7th and guards will most likely begin shipping June 11th-18th.
That kind of sucks. It might be the best they can do, but that seems like a long time. BTW, I'm the impatient type as well.
We're looking at 4 weeks minimum which really isn't very long to produce ~50 cages. That's quite a bit of work to be done. Generally our production takes roughly 6 weeks but I believe we're going to prioritize these higher so we can get them done as quickly as possible for you guys. I know a lot of you are eager so we're doing our best!
Ryan, are we going to have the pleasure of continuing this thread to assist you in the design of the Gen1 bars. Hate to let an epic like this go. :)
I was thinking of just starting a new thread for the Gen1 bars. This thread is getting so long now it's difficult to really find any information for people just joining in on the conversation. I think it'd be best to just start over when we get the bike in and begin preliminary design work. It is quite an epic thread though...
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Ryan,
Since we are at the ordering/production phase of the project, I want to revisit the idea of including highway pegs as part of the group buy as discussed on page 39 of this thread. Now might be a good time to gauge interest for your production planning, since I would want them to come either with around when I would receive the canyon cage, and others might as well.
I like the pegs you showed us on page 39-40 on this thread, but with a black powder coat. Can you provide the pegs in black and make them available as part of the group buy, with similar quantity requirements and discount as the bars?
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Ryan,
Since we are at the ordering/production phase of the project, I want to revisit the idea of including highway pegs as part of the group buy as discussed on page 39 of this thread. Now might be a good time to gauge interest for your production planning, since I would want them to come either with around when I would receive the canyon cage, and others might as well.
I like the pegs you showed us on page 39-40 on this thread, but with a black powder coat. Can you provide the pegs in black and make them available as part of the group buy, with similar quantity requirements and discount as the bars?
We can definitely include the highway pegs in the group buy if there are still people interested in the set we mocked up on page 39-40. It didn't seem like there was a ton of interest in them so it may be easier to handle those people case by case. Unfortunately our pegs only come in chrome though so we won't be able to offer them to you in black. :( For those of you who want our highway peg option, they can definitely be included with your purchase of the Canyon Cage and be delivered together. If you'd really prefer a set of black pegs I'd look into those Lindy clamp/pegs that someone posted a few pages back, those things would look wicked on the Canyon Cage! I'm sure there are also a slew of other options out there for affordable black pegs with a 1" clamp.
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I would not want the pegs with a chrome finish, but thanks for the info.
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I would not want the pegs with a chrome finish, but thanks for the info.
Yeaaa, I figured you were stuck on the black. It's okay, though. No problem! I'm sure you can find a nice set of nice black pegs that'll fit on a 1" bar. That's a pretty generic clamp size.
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Instead of including other specific products, why not some sort of % off on any other of your items that you produce if they are purchased at the same time? Just a thought.
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Instead of including other specific products, why not some sort of % off on any other of your items that you produce if they are purchased at the same time? Just a thought.
That's pretty much what it is, just worded a bit differently. I'll go ahead and apply the tiered discount for those of you who also want other product we make if purchased with the Canyon Cage or small saddle bag guards during the group buy.
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Awesome, I'm definitely going for raw cage and raw small rear bag bars. Appreciate you, Ryan!
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From MCE's website:
[...] "We are offering them in Black Powdercoat or Raw. "
What?????? So I won't be able to order chrome? One can order chrome with all the other Canyon Cages, Bathroom Bars, and rear bars they make. If this is true, I guess I won't get to be a part of the group buy (and will be very disappointed, after all this development work and waiting) :(
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And every order placed will be shipped with a bit of swag, right Ryan? ;) ;D
(http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/images/thumbs/Kawasaki%20Parking%20Only%20Sml.jpg)
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What?????? So I won't be able to order chrome? One can order chrome with all the other Canyon Cages, Bathroom Bars, and rear bars they make. If this is true, I guess I won't get to be a part of the group buy (and will be very disappointed, after all this development work and waiting) :(
His previous posts say chrome (as it's been discussed as such for 50 pages or so), so I'd assume the website has a typo.
Of course, I'll want the black to slow my bike down.
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What?????? So I won't be able to order chrome? One can order chrome with all the other Canyon Cages, Bathroom Bars, and rear bars they make. If this is true, I guess I won't get to be a part of the group buy (and will be very disappointed, after all this development work and waiting) :(
Don't worry, maxtog! That was a mistake by the person who updates our website. The Canyon Cages will definitely be available in chrome for those that want them!
And every order placed will be shipped with a bit of swag, right Ryan? ;) ;D
(http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/images/thumbs/Kawasaki%20Parking%20Only%20Sml.jpg)
We're actually thinking of making some "Concours" or "Connie" Parking Only signs and selling 'em at a deep discount for those of you who participate in the group buy. Do you think most would prefer Kawasaki or Concours/Connie Parking Only?
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Don't worry, maxtog! That was a mistake by the person who updates our website. The Canyon Cages will definitely be available in chrome for those that want them!
Whew!
We're actually thinking of making some "Concours" or "Connie" Parking Only signs and selling 'em at a deep discount for those of you who participate in the group buy. Do you think most would prefer Kawasaki or Concours/Connie Parking Only?
"Concours Parking Only"!! Or better, if there is room, "Kawasaki Concours Parking Only"!!
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Whew!
"Concours Parking Only"!! Or better, if there is room, "Kawasaki Concours Parking Only"!!
Or Kawasaki C14
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"Concours Parking Only"!! Or better, if there is room, "Kawasaki Concours Parking Only"!!
Not a bad idea! The latter might be a bit of a tight fit, though. We can always try and see!
Or Kawasaki C14
Hmmm...That's not a bad idea either...
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Or Kawasaki C14
Or "Kawasaki GTR" or "Kawasaki 1400GTR" or "Kawasaki ZG1400"
So many possibilities! Damn there are just too many names for this sucker
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or: 川崎重工業株式会社
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We're actually thinking of making some "Concours" or "Connie" Parking Only signs and selling 'em at a deep discount for those of you who participate in the group buy. Do you think most would prefer Kawasaki or Concours/Connie Parking Only?
How about a sign that says "No chrome parking here"... ;D
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How about a sign that says "No chrome parking here"... ;D
:rotflmao:
And...no Hardley Ableson's parking either.
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川崎重工業株式会社
That's awesome! :)
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or: 川崎重工業株式会社
translation... Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd.
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How about a sign that says "No chrome parking here"... ;D
Hey- no fair.
I think it should be "No bikes over 75% black"!
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Hey- no fair.
I think it should be "No bikes over 75% black"!
How easily a thread goes sideways, and so completely and utterly WRONG! ;)
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How easily a thread goes sideways, and so completely and utterly WRONG! ;)
ZG can have that affect sometimes <snicker snicker> ;)
8) ??? ::) ;)
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ZG can have that affect sometimes <snicker snicker> ;)
8) ??? ::) ;)
Cue black bike picture in 3...2...1....
:rotflmao:
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Cue black bike picture in 3...2...1....
:rotflmao:
Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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Everyone knows Blue is the new Black... ;)
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ZG can have that affect sometimes <snicker snicker> ;)
8) ??? ::) ;)
Cue black bike picture in 3...2...1....
:rotflmao:
Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
;D ;D ;D
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Cue black bike picture in 3...2...1....
:rotflmao:
::) ::) ::)
There it is, just to the left ;)
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(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410006.jpg)
(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g43/rnvanquish/CONCOURS1400-410008.jpg)
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/blackpolice.jpg)
You can just look at them and tell the cage won't protect as well as the bathroom bars, but they do look so much better especially with black bolts. :D :D
these look great. ill be ordering on Monday. What will be the price of a front/rear combo in black?
Bill
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I'm sure the prices will be in the group buy thread he'll post on Monday. Woot woot!
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these look great. ill be ordering on Monday. What will be the price of a front/rear combo in black?
Bill
Thanks, Bill! It took quite a bit of work but I think we really ended up with a great product. MSRP for the Canyon Cage is going to be $300. The saddle bag guards are $175 as always although the discount percentage does apply if you purchase both. I'll get into the pricing and discount tiers in the group buy thread on Monday but I believe the maximum discount is going to be 20-25% and one person, one credit card, one shipping address equals one order. The more orders there are, the better the savings basically.
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Thanks, Bill! It took quite a bit of work but I think we really ended up with a great product. MSRP for the Canyon Cage is going to be $300. The saddle bag guards are $175 as always although the discount percentage does apply if you purchase both. I'll get into the pricing and discount tiers in the group buy thread on Monday but I believe the maximum discount is going to be 20-25% and one person, one credit card, one shipping address equals one order. The more orders there are, the better the savings basically.
What will be the amount refunded for the bathroom bars?
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Ryan,
So if i currently have the police bars on the front, what is involved with removing them and installing these? Do the new bars use the same mounting holes?
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What will be the amount refunded for the bathroom bars?
That depends on a few things, actually. First, it'll depend on how many Cages we sell during the group buy and what discount is applied. Second, it'll depend on whether your bathroom bars need to be stripped and redone (the majority of you who have mounted them will most likely need them stripped and redone). I believe the end cost of the bathroom bars for the group buy was $297.50. If we hit the maximum discount for the Canyon Cage we're looking at a cost of $225 so if your bars don't need to be stripped and redone you're looking at a refund of $72.50.
Ryan,
So if i currently have the police bars on the front, what is involved with removing them and installing these? Do the new bars use the same mounting holes?
The Canyon Cage does share some of the same mounting points as the bathroom bars. I'm not sure what you mean by what's involved, though. Basically all you need to do is remove the old set and install the new set. The Canyon Cage doesn't require any drilling or cutting or anything so you're good there. In fact, the Canyon Cage doesn't even require you to remove the fairings for installation. The 2010-2012 bathroom bars did require you to make a small cut in an air duct beneath the fairing but that's not visible with the fairings on so it's nothing to worry about when you remove the bathroom bars.
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You are making it hard for me to justify keeping the bathroom bars. I am pretty sure I will be ordering the Canyon Cages. Thanks.
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I just ordered a set. Woo Hoo can't wait.
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So, where did you go to order them?? Is there a "group buy" thread started yet?? (I didn't see one.) Information, please. thanks
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So, where did you go to order them?? Is there a "group buy" thread started yet?? (I didn't see one.) Information, please. thanks
It's Monday morning so I'm pretty busy here at the office! I should have the group buy thread written up and posted by this afternoon though! You can always call us at 866.886.2368 and order if you absolutely can't wait but the group buy thread will be up later today for those of you looking for more information first.
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O.K. I'm in for a set for my '09, in black. Opinions/wishes bellow:
1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
Prefer no drilling, but would accept it
2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
Let the engineers decide, but i want a bar that will fit the 08-09. I would like it to have a fairly convenient spot for a set of highway pegs for another leg position.
3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
Let the engineers decide.
3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
The bars must not reduce cornering lean angle.
4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
The only ones that aren't butt-ugly are expensive and difficult to get.
5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.
The only ones that aren't butt-ugly are expensive and difficult to get. They are too wide and look like they will make getting it into my crowded garage tough.
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So, where did you go to order them?? Is there a "group buy" thread started yet?? (I didn't see one.) Information, please. thanks
I called the number on the web site that Ryan mentioned: 866 886 2368
I didn't know there would be a separate thread for ordering.
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O.K. I'm in for a set for my '09, in black. Opinions/wishes bellow:
Thanks for your input, Colt! I believe we're getting the 2009 Connie in our shop the week of May 21st. At that time I'll make a new thread so those of you who are interested can be a part of the design/build process again like we did for the 2010-2012 Canyon Cage.
I called the number on the web site that Ryan mentioned: 866 886 2368
I didn't know there would be a separate thread for ordering.
The group buy thread isn't really for ordering through so you're okay. Individuals still have to either call, email, or otherwise contact me directly to place their order. The group buy thread is really just a place to ask/answer questions people may have regarding the bars themselves, discounts, fitment, or any other questions people may have.
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That depends on a few things, actually. First, it'll depend on how many Cages we sell during the group buy and what discount is applied. Second, it'll depend on whether your bathroom bars need to be stripped and redone (the majority of you who have mounted them will most likely need them stripped and redone). I believe the end cost of the bathroom bars for the group buy was $297.50. If we hit the maximum discount for the Canyon Cage we're looking at a cost of $225 so if your bars don't need to be stripped and redone you're looking at a refund of $72.50.
Talked to Ryan today, and they are offering the full retail value of the bathroom bars as a trade in on the Canyon cages. The refund he mentions is what they would send me after I traded in my bathroom bars for the Canyon Cages...
Confused? I was... I'm sure he'll be along shortly to explain.
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Talked to Ryan today, and they are offering the full retail value of the bathroom bars as a trade in on the Canyon cages. The refund he mentions is what they would send me after I traded in my bathroom bars for the Canyon Cages...
Confused? I was... I'm sure he'll be along shortly to explain.
Wow! You can't go wrong there.
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Talked to Ryan today, and they are offering the full retail value of the bathroom bars as a trade in on the Canyon cages. The refund he mentions is what they would send me after I traded in my bathroom bars for the Canyon Cages...
Confused? I was... I'm sure he'll be along shortly to explain.
This is correct. Although the only people eligible for the exchange are those who purchased their bathroom bars directly from us during the first group buy as the timing of the Canyon Cage build sort of screwed them over. We are offering a credit for the full amount paid for the bathroom bars ($297.50) and will deduct the cost to strip and redo the bars if need be from that credit. Seeing as how the majority of you will be trading the bathroom bars for the Canyon Cage, the price of the Canyon Cage will also be taken from this credit of $297.50 leaving you with a refund of $42.50 if your bars need to be stripped and redone. I could see why this would be confusing though so I figured it'd be easier to handle these on a case by case basis.
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This is correct. Although the only people eligible for the exchange are those who purchased their bathroom bars directly from us during the first group buy as the timing of the Canyon Cage build sort of screwed them over. We are offering a credit for the full amount paid for the bathroom bars ($297.50) and will deduct the cost to strip and redo the bars if need be from that credit. Seeing as how the majority of you will be trading the bathroom bars for the Canyon Cage, the price of the Canyon Cage will also be taken from this credit of $297.50 leaving you with a refund of $42.50 if your bars need to be stripped and redone. I could see why this would be confusing though so I figured it'd be easier to handle these on a case by case basis.
You guys are seriously awesome in your customer service! I can't believe that! I hope this bring you great prosperity in your business!
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This is correct. Although the only people eligible for the exchange are those who purchased their bathroom bars directly from us during the first group buy as the timing of the Canyon Cage build sort of screwed them over. We are offering a credit for the full amount paid for the bathroom bars ($297.50) and will deduct the cost to strip and redo the bars if need be from that credit. Seeing as how the majority of you will be trading the bathroom bars for the Canyon Cage, the price of the Canyon Cage will also be taken from this credit of $297.50 leaving you with a refund of $42.50 if your bars need to be stripped and redone. I could see why this would be confusing though so I figured it'd be easier to handle these on a case by case basis.
I missed out on the group buy (bought them in January 2012). So I paid full price :( for the front and rear and installed them when I had less than 5 miles on my bike.
I like the bathroom bars (cagers on the interstate tend to move to the right as I approch them for behind ;D ) and would not be traiding them in anyway. This is a great deal for those who would rather have the cage instead of the bathroom bars. So now I'm just trying to figure out if I want the Canyon Cage too. It's just seems that lately, I've been a day late and a dollar short. :( I know the bike with the bags off would look better with the Canyon Cage instead of the bathroom bars.
Decissions decissions. :-\
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I missed out on the group buy (bought them in January 2012). So I paid full price :( for the front and rear and installed them when I had less than 5 miles on my bike.
I like the bathroom bars (cagers on the interstate tend to move to the right as I approch them for behind ;D ) and would not be traiding them in anyway. This is a great deal for those who would rather have the cage instead of the bathroom bars. So now I'm just trying to figure out if I want the Canyon Cage too. It's just seems that lately, I've been a day late and a dollar short. :( I know the bike with the bags off would look better with the Canyon Cage instead of the bathroom bars.
Decissions decissions. :-\
I'm in the same position, just been there longer. I bought my bars in May 2011. I paid a whopping $350 for just the fronts. I spoke with Ryan yesterday to see if there was any 'deal' for those of us who were early adopters of the bars. Unfortunately, the answer was no. I thought about going in on the current group buy and then selling the original bars, but the reality is anyone who is thinking about the bars is probably going to get them off this buy. I really don't want to have the bars hanging around and I'd never swap back and forth, so it looks like I will be keeping the bathroom bars.
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I know the bike with the bags off would look better with the Canyon Cage instead of the bathroom bars.
To have protection, you need the rear bars also. So if you take the bags off, those look very odd, regardless of if you have the bathroom or canyon bars on the front. Me? I never take off the bags, except for maintenance.
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these look great. ill be ordering on Monday. What will be the price of a front/rear combo in black?
Bill
Ci vuole sempre tanta prudenza.
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393389_2919668597047_1420743669_3019992_1978297721_n.jpg (http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393389_2919668597047_1420743669_3019992_1978297721_n.jpg)
MGvalerio. 8)
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Ci vuole sempre tanta prudenza.
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393389_2919668597047_1420743669_3019992_1978297721_n.jpg (http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393389_2919668597047_1420743669_3019992_1978297721_n.jpg)
MGvalerio. 8)
Bummer! Sorry to see that. Is that your bike MG?
Mi dispiace vedere che. È questa la tua moto MG?
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Ci vuole sempre tanta prudenza.
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393389_2919668597047_1420743669_3019992_1978297721_n.jpg (http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393389_2919668597047_1420743669_3019992_1978297721_n.jpg)
MGvalerio. 8)
:yikes: :'(
Sorry to see that MG... How fast were you going? (Qual è la velocità sono stati yu andando?)
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I'm pretty sure that's not MG's bike, the last pic I saw of his bike didn't include bathoom bars.
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Bathroom bars and small rears. Lost mirror, saddle bag and ? . What else do you see? How bad would it have been without the crash bars?
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I'm pretty sure that's not MG's bike, the last pic I saw of his bike didn't include bathoom bars.
yes non è la mia moto,la mia moto MY 2007 .quella in foto è un MY 2010.
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I gotta wonder if that bike was side swiped or something? How could the mirror have taken such a hit unless it was?
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yes non è la mia moto,la mia moto MY 2007 .quella in foto è un MY 2010.
What? That is your bike or it is not? I know that you have a 2008. The back of the muffler looks like a Gen 2 bike.
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Ci vuole sempre tanta prudenza.
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393389_2919668597047_1420743669_3019992_1978297721_n.jpg (http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/393389_2919668597047_1420743669_3019992_1978297721_n.jpg)
Yikes!!! All that damage can't be from just a fallover, can't it? I mean, with the bathroom bars and rears, that just doesn't look right. I can't tell exactly what all the debris is from that far away, but it looks like the mirror and fairing?? Must be the upper fairing, since there seems to be reflector, turn signal debris. To me, it looks like a collision and then a fall. We need more info!!!
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Yikes!!! All that damage can't be from just a fallover, can't it? I mean, with the bathroom bars and rears, that just doesn't look right. I can't tell exactly what all the debris is from that far away, but it looks like the mirror and fairing?? Must be the upper fairing, since there seems to be reflector, turn signal debris. To me, it looks like a collision and then a fall. We need more info!!!
No way. That bike either hit something or got side swiped.
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Ouch!!! :o
It hurts to see the bike in that way! :'(
Anyway, the cage didn't do much to protect the bike: I'd say almost zero effect!
All that could have been ripped off... has been ripped off: saddlebag, mirror, part of the fairing and also the front turn light, if I'm not wrong!
I'm quite sure that the bike was moving so probably a wrong slow speed maneuver losing the control of the bike or a hit at relatively low speed.
It seems that even a slow speed can almost nullify the cage protection.
That gimmick is good for drops from stand still: I think that nothing can prevent 300 kg (600 lbs) of iron and plastic from being heavily damaged when hitting the ground at even a slow speed. :-\
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Anyway, the cage didn't do much to protect the bike: I'd say almost zero effect!
Well, we don't KNOW that.
All that could have been ripped off... has been ripped off: saddlebag, mirror, part of the fairing and also the front turn light, if I'm not wrong. I'm quite sure that the bike was moving so probably a wrong slow speed maneuver losing the control of the bike or a hit at relatively low speed. It seems that even a slow speed can almost nullify the cage protection. That gimmick is good for drops from stand still: I think that nothing can prevent 300 kg (600 lbs) of iron and plastic from being heavily damaged when hitting the ground at even a slow speed. :-\
I wouldn't go that bold of a statement yet, not without knowing what happened. Perhaps Ryan can step in with some additional data. For example, the mirror being broken off- I just don't see that happening with the bathroom bars and rears in a non-collision situation. And even with damage, the "cage" can offer some anti-entrapment protection for the driver, too. And could it be worse without protection? Of course... we have NO IDEA how much *structural* damage might have occurred without the bars- like broken mounts, damaged block, destroyed wiring, trashing the radiator, etc.
In short- not enough info!!!
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With the inertia involved in a drop at speed, or collision, I don't think any bar would prevent ALL damage. Bars and sliders hope to MINIMIZE or REDUCE damage. That's why I ordered them, as I believe my greatest chance of a drop is low to no speed. At speed, I expect my bike to take some pretty good damage. That's where protective clothing steps in.
I'm not a physicist, but I've seen them on TV.
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With the inertia involved in a drop at speed, or collision, I don't think any bar would prevent ALL damage. Bars and sliders hope to MINIMIZE or REDUCE damage. That's why I ordered them, as I believe my greatest chance of a drop is low to no speed. At speed, I expect my bike to take some pretty good damage. That's where protective clothing steps in.
I'm not a physicist, but I've seen them on TV.
:goodpost: +1...
I've wrecked many bikes, they never just tip over and come to rest if you're moving, typically a cart wheel or two and sliding into something solid etc comes into play and that's why we have insurance to step in and pay us the $. Tip over protection is exactly what it's called, tip over protection!
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Yeah, I have an impossible time believing that this was a low speed lowside.
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Ok, I have to ask, what is the difference between a high side and a low side? No smart Alec's! :-X
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Ok, I have to ask, what is the difference between a high side and a low side? No smart Alec's! :-X
A cornering motorcycle leans. A "low side" is going down on the side that was lower (tipped over, inside curve). A "high side" is much worse- the bike violently flips around to the other side (the "high" side- the opposite of the low side, the outside of the curve).
Edit: Look what I just found. Is there anything NOT in Wikipedia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowsider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowsider)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highsider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highsider)
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Ugocon, since you have helped interpret MGvalerio before, could you ask him where he got that photo from and the circumstances surrounding it and the crash, if he knows.
I'd like to read the write-up that was with that photo. I don't see what the bike struck... but it sure looks to me like it was involved in a collision.
Thanks, Dave
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I have watched in person a bike hit a car running a stop sign and the only damage to the bike was a front rotor and some scratches in the chrome bars. The car had a gash ripped through the sheet metal of a door. I know its hard to believe but I watched it happen with my brother on the bike. The bike was a Honda Valkyrie and I was riding a V-star behind him. We continued our ride for the day. The Valkyrie has built in bars around the flat 6 engine and did an amazing job protecting the bike. He was doing 30 but probably had the bike down to about 5 mph (he did a nice job not locking the rear wheel) by the time he hit the car (car crossed the street from left to right) which turned the forks to the right and the left front fort ripped open the gash. So yes it is possible to build bars to give some serious protection to low speed crashes.
As someone else said we don't have enough info. Who knows what the bike would have looked like without the bars.
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Ugocon, since you have helped interpret MGvalerio before, could you ask him where he got that photo from and the circumstances surrounding it and the crash, if he knows.
I'd like to read the write-up that was with that photo. I don't see what the bike struck... but it sure looks to me like it was involved in a collision.
Thanks, Dave
I'll try to contact him to see where he found that photo and if there are more info on that...
Anyway it could have been much worse! :o
(http://www.omaq.org/v3/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/jpg1.jpg)
Here is the link http://www.omaq.org/v3/2010/10/16/kawasaki-gtr-on-da-highway-plus/ (http://www.omaq.org/v3/2010/10/16/kawasaki-gtr-on-da-highway-plus/)
It's in Malaysia.
Google translator gives this awful translation into English.... you can understand the sense... :)
"VOCM his group viewed in BB omaq send picture .. He share in the BBM group I .. Member he aksident, thank God he survived member la ...: p can gak serious bike BLE member he tu ... tu serondol from behind .. Maybe coat sleepy .. Inalillahiwainailaihirajiun"
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Posso assicuravi che la borsa è saltata fuori causa sbagliato sistema d'ancoraggio alla moto da parte di KAWASAKI.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/jfc9qc.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/1j97dg.jpg)
MGvalerio. 8)
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Posso assicuravi che la borsa è saltata fuori causa sbagliato sistema d'ancoraggio alla moto da parte di KAWASAKI.
MGvalerio. 8)
Ah, so that's what happened to the mirror eh? ::)
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Care to share?
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I talked to Valerio... :)
Regarding the pic he posted, he has no additional info on the accident, sorry...
But he wants to underline that:
- the bike was at a very low speed, probably went down because of a panic stop, since there are no scratches of the cage on the asphalt and debris are all there, close to the bike.
- the road is not horizontal on the side where the bike dropped and this has diminished the safety provided by the cage: probably things would have gone better if it dropped on the left side
- most probably the saddlebag has separated NOT because it hit the ground, but for the repercussion of that hit, due to a poor design by Kawasaki that doesn't grant a stable anchoring of the saddlebags to the bike: you can try pulling yours from the rear and see how much it moves!
- the pics he posted later are of his saddlebags he modified with additional bolts to keep them safer in their position.
Ciao
Ugo
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Thanks Ugo.
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Ah, so that's what happened to the mirror eh? ::)
Certamente ???..... migliore cosa è fare come fanno gli struzzi ahahah...come stai facendo tu con me.
MGvalerio. 8)
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Ok, I have to ask, what is the difference between a high side and a low side? No smart Alec's! :-X
Further, of course, you can do some youtube searches and you'll get a terrific understanding of the difference. Good question!
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Thanks for the clarification......... Unfortunately I can now relate to a low side, in as I experienced one on Saturday. I was getting off the freeway, had a green light at the intersection, made a rookie mistake of tracking the center of the lane, and both wheels squirted out from under me and we slid across two lanes of highway. Oil patch?
Ground off down the mirror, bag, and lower fairing pretty good, upper fairing majorly scratched, and broke off the end of the peg......... the bag did not come off, I guess I better check it closer.
Some road rash on the jacket, a hurting bruised foot, and a little dose of mental anguish......... Oh, and the wife!!
I think the tip over bars I have on order would have saved the plastic!!
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Yup, that sounds like a lowside all right. And it's a STRONG indication why this photo being discussed was NOT a low speed lowside. Period. It just wasn't. It was pretty violent.
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If the crash bars were not scuffed up then it was not a low side accident. The accident happened at an intersection. The bike is resting in the upper position of the crash bars and not laid completely over. A low speed low side would not have caused the damage if the bike was left in the position that it came to final rest. The road does not slant enough to cause the damage. By all appearances to me, the bike was struck or struck someone coming from the right who violated the riders right of way.
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Posso assicuravi che la borsa è saltata fuori causa sbagliato sistema d'ancoraggio alla moto da parte di KAWASAKI.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/jfc9qc.jpg)
MGvalerio. 8)
I need to take a better look at the inside of my side bags. I don't think mine look like that (not mentioning the stereo speaker). Curious about his locking mod, too. Looks like the little L-pieces slip into the holes and under the brackets on the bike so that it can't be lifted. Hard to tell for sure.
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I'm not sure of the protocol on the forum for thanking someone for their help, after asking for Ugocon's help with translation, but anyway, thanks for the help, and I agree with Necron and Wendel... I don't believe this was a simple low side with the damage we see to the mirror and bag, but not to the top of the bag or the frame.
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Usually "Thank you" works on forums. ;) Just trying to help a brutha with the best colored bike out. :D
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I need to take a better look at the inside of my side bags. I don't think mine look like that (not mentioning the stereo speaker). Curious about his locking mod, too. Looks like the little L-pieces slip into the holes and under the brackets on the bike so that it can't be lifted. Hard to tell for sure.
As far as I know, Valerio made two holes and used something magnetic to quickly release the bag, but don't know more.
On his YouTube channel he had a video about it, but he is a "man of action" :) and reshuffled the video he loaded many times, adding new ones and getting rid of others, so... I no longer see it! :-[
Valerio, please, reload the video about locking the saddlebags!!!
In Italian (better for him...) ;)
Valerioooooo, ricarica su Youtube il video sui cosi magnetici di cui parlavamo stamattina per le borseeeee! ;D
Sorry for shouting, but hopefully he will notice it! :D
BTW: it's my pleasure to help when I can... :)
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As far as I know, Valerio made two holes and used something magnetic to quickly release the bag, but don't know more.
On his YouTube channel he had a video about it, but he is a "man of action" :) and reshuffled the video he loaded many times, adding new ones and getting rid of others, so... I no longer see it! :-[
Valerio, please, reload the video about locking the saddlebags!!!
In Italian (better for him...) ;)
Valerioooooo, ricarica su Youtube il video sui cosi magnetici di cui parlavamo stamattina per le borseeeee! ;D
Sorry for shouting, but hopefully he will notice it! :D
BTW: it's my pleasure to help when I can... :)
AUGGG.
http://youtu.be/qEhYqst8otQ (http://youtu.be/qEhYqst8otQ)
MGvalerio. 8)
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molto bella!
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AUGGG.
(removed the YouTube link)
MGvalerio. 8)
Dang, he's got a couple of really cool things going on. How come nobody else thought of the internal pins before? And that center stand works really slick. :thumbs:
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Dang, he's got a couple of really cool things going on. How come nobody else thought of the internal pins before? And that center stand works really slick. :thumbs:
Someone did, it was on the precrash forum. I can't tell you who it was though cuz I don't remember. It's a cool solution but who wants to drill two holes in the bags?
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Holy bags, Batman! And speaking of bags, let's kinda veer this back to the Canyon Cage discussion rather than side case fastening methods and what not....
Over and out.
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Holy bags, Batman! And speaking of bags, let's kinda veer this back to the Canyon Cage discussion rather than side case fastening methods and what not....
Over and out.
Someone did, it was on the precrash forum. I can't tell you who it was though cuz I don't remember. It's a cool solution but who wants to drill two holes in the bags?
Holy bags, Batman!
It's a cool solution but who wants to drill two holes in the bags?
Non vedete più lontano del vostro naso,signori miei ((Conrad... VirginiaJim)) ..con il mio amico virtuale UGOCON che tradurrà il mio pensiero in altro post capirete che davo in formazioni valide alla sicurezza in moto, la vostra ignoranza in materia mi disturba.
Non amo la diplomazia,sono molto diretto,miei punti cardinali o nord o sud...
MGvalerio. 8)
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I think it's correct not to go off topic in a post, but Valerio just wanted to provide you with what he sincerely thinks could be a benefit for every Connie owner.
Drilling a bag is his solution, could be interesting for someone could be useless for others.
Anyway, in his last post Valerio is upset because it seems you don't appreciate his suggestions.
The language barrier sometimes twists the real meanings of the phrases, so I just want to tell Valerio that no one is saying that your ideas are bullshit (I hope bullshit is allowed in this forum: I had a bad experience in another one managed by a mentally disturbed administrator ;)...) .
I suggest you, if you haven't done it already, to open a specific thread about your suggestions, hints and advices.
Fellow riders will have the choice to argue about them in a free way.
In this post it's off-topic.
I translate this last part in Italian for him:
Valerio, nessuno sta dicendo che le tue idee sono stronzate.
Ti consiglio, se non l'hai già fatto, di aprire un thread specifico per i tuoi consigli e proposte.
Gli altri piloti potranno liberamente scegliere se commentare o meno le tue idee :)
In questo post siamo off-topic.
Ciao
Ugo
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Valerio has already posted All Of This Stuff Already.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7252.msg86174#msg86174 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7252.msg86174#msg86174)
:offtopic:
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I think it's correct not to go off topic in a post, but Valerio just wanted to provide you with what he sincerely thinks could be a benefit for every Connie owner.
Drilling a bag is his solution, could be interesting for someone could be useless for others.
Anyway, in his last post Valerio is upset because it seems you don't appreciate his suggestions.
The language barrier sometimes twists the real meanings of the phrases, so I just want to tell Valerio that no one is saying that your ideas are bullshit (I hope bullshit is allowed in this forum: I had a bad experience in another one managed by a mentally disturbed administrator ;) ...) .
I suggest you, if you haven't done it already, to open a specific thread about your suggestions, hints and advices.
Fellow riders will have the choice to argue about them in a free way.
In this post it's off-topic.
I translate this last part in Italian for him:
Valerio, nessuno sta dicendo che le tue idee sono stronzate.
Ti consiglio, se non l'hai già fatto, di aprire un thread specifico per i tuoi consigli e proposte.
Gli altri piloti potranno liberamente scegliere se commentare o meno le tue idee :)
In questo post siamo off-topic.
Ciao
Ugo
This is a thread discussion on the Canyon Cages per se, not pinning bags or various other subjects. There are other threads for that. I don't mind a little veering off course, I do it as well. We're guys, it's easy for that to happen to us.
My previous post was a kindly reminder. No malice was intended nor was it singling out anyone. However and that's a big HOWEVER, my mentally disturbed deranged alter ego could surface if that friendly advice isn't heeded or there is push back over it. We don't want that to happen. It's not nice when that happens. Then I get to feeling bad afterwards. It's no good for anyone. Any further posts outside the parameters (I like that word) of this thread will be deleted. End of discussion.
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This is a thread discussion on the Canyon Cages per se, not pinning bags or various other subjects. There are other threads for that. I don't mind a little veering off course, I do it as well. We're guys, it's easy for that to happen to us.
My previous post was a kindly reminder. No malice was intended nor was it singling out anyone. However and that's a big HOWEVER, my mentally disturbed deranged alter ego could surface if that friendly advice isn't heeded or there is push back over it. We don't want that to happen. It's not nice when that happens. Then I get to feeling bad afterwards. It's no good for anyone. Any further posts outside the parameters (I like that word) of this thread will be deleted. End of discussion.
That is as diplomatic as I have ever seen a mod be!
Bravo!
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Yea, and when our Mod friend ever has to come after you, just do this:
Monty Python - Run Away! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W_u4UTvk9w#)
LOL... 8)
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:rotflmao: Monty Python soothes the savage beast...
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Can I get a copy of the install instructions so I can pretend to read them before I tear the box open like a little kid on Christmas day. ???
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Can I get a copy of the install instructions so I can pretend to read them before I tear the box open like a little kid on Christmas day. ???
For the 2010-2012 Canyon Cage, correct? I've added them for you as an attachment to this response.
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Hello Everyone,
Does this Enterprise cage fit a 2009 C14 ABS ????
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This one does...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9386.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9386.0)
There are two versions. One for the 10+ bikes and one for the 08/09 bikes.
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Hello Everyone,
Does this Enterprise cage fit a 2009 C14 ABS ????
This one does...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9386.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9386.0)
There are two versions. One for the 10+ bikes and one for the 08/09 bikes.
Thanks for answering him, Jim! You hit the nail directly on the head! We do indeed make a Canyon Cage for the 2008-2009 Connie and it's part number #1400-400. If you're also interested in the Saddle Bag Guards for that bike as well, they're #1400-300.
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Late to the party. Where's a good place to buy these cages? Doesn't look like I can buy them off of MCEnterprises website.
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Late to the party. Where's a good place to buy these cages? Doesn't look like I can buy them off of MCEnterprises website.
Call McEnterprises
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Got them ordered!! This bike is going to put me in the poor house! When will the bleeding stop!!! Oh well, anyone have a good highway peg for these??? ;D
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Got them ordered!!
Congrats!
This bike is going to put me in the poor house! When will the bleeding stop!!! Oh well, anyone have a good highway peg for these??? ;D
Well, since you are in the mood to spend, go for the best :) Skip trying to ruin the Canyons with addon's that look crazy and are WAY too wide and far away to be practical and get Ronnie's Highway Pegs (which are not really pegs).
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Oh well, anyone have a good highway peg for these??? ;D
Don't listen to Max. I got these on mine and absolutely love them. Unless you ordered chrome ones :doublepuke:
http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=282&cat=221&page=1 (http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=282&cat=221&page=1)
http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=352&cat=221&page=1 (http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=352&cat=221&page=1)
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Don't listen to Max. I got these on mine and absolutely love them. Unless you ordered chrome ones :doublepuke:
http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=282&cat=221&page=1 (http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=282&cat=221&page=1)
http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=352&cat=221&page=1 (http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=352&cat=221&page=1)
+1... The powdercoat isn't as quality as the bars, but the pegs will work for the times they are on the bike. They look like they'd disassemble pretty easy if they need to be refinished.
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I have to go with Max on this one, the Gen 1 Canyons will not work with Ronnies so I had to sell mine and bought Rivco's. No way they are comparable, if I had a 2010+ C14 Ronnies are the only pegs I would consider. They satisfy both form and function.
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Don't listen to Max. I got these on mine and absolutely love them. Unless you ordered chrome ones :doublepuke:
http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=282&cat=221&page=1 (http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=282&cat=221&page=1)
http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=352&cat=221&page=1 (http://www.rivcoproducts.com/products/product.php?productid=352&cat=221&page=1)
I think these are the same ones that Murph sells. I had them on my old C-10.
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=237 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=237)
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So I ordered these on the 9-5-12 and haven't got them yet. How long does it take?
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I went down a different path or my pegs...
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/bugnut_bucket/Kawabunga/IMG_8465_zps8b374943.jpg)
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/bugnut_bucket/Kawabunga/IMG_8466_zps82e9a7b9.jpg)
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/bugnut_bucket/Kawabunga/IMG_8477_zps276e9bcd.jpg)
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee259/bugnut_bucket/Kawabunga/IMG_8483_zps65fb123b.jpg)
I welded in a little spot on the peg itself to decrease the droop of the peg. Leveled it out since the welded in tab follows the angle of the whole bar. I didn't compensate for that and really it worked out better to get to the bolt next to the fairing. Way comfortable.
Mike
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That is a good idea, maybe I will do the same. What paint did you use? How thick are the walls of the cages; I don't want to turn the heat up to much and burn through them. How long did it take you to get them after you ordered? I know, it's a lot of questions... thanks :)
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So I ordered these on the 9-5-12 and haven't got them yet. How long does it take?
You should check with Ryan at MCE about how long it's going to take for your order. It'll be hard for most, if not all, of us to judge how long ours took because when we ordered MCE was still making these at the time, so we had to wait for that as well.
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So I ordered these on the 9-5-12 and haven't got them yet. How long does it take?
I ordered 2nd week of September and was told they were currently in production and should be shipped around 20-21 Sep.
On a side note, my advice to mcenterprises would be to take an email address at purchase and send not only a receipt for purchase but a shipping and delivery confirmation. I have yet to be charged for the purchase price, have no idea what the status of the order is, when the will be shipped, or to be perfectly honest, if I still have a valid order. I'm not saying the product isn't great or the customer service is lacking, they are very nice on the phone and willing to answer questions, but simply put, I am an information hog, I like to know exactly what is going on, constantly. I really want these things and the wait is killing me.
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So I ordered these on the 9-5-12 and haven't got them yet. How long does it take?
They were currently in production when you ordered and we're actually picking them up from our powder coaters today. We'll be shipping out the next batch to people beginning next week so you guys should start to see them within about 10 days or so.
I ordered 2nd week of September and was told they were currently in production and should be shipped around 20-21 Sep.
On a side note, my advice to mcenterprises would be to take an email address at purchase and send not only a receipt for purchase but a shipping and delivery confirmation. I have yet to be charged for the purchase price, have no idea what the status of the order is, when the will be shipped, or to be perfectly honest, if I still have a valid order. I'm not saying the product isn't great or the customer service is lacking, they are very nice on the phone and willing to answer questions, but simply put, I am an information hog, I like to know exactly what is going on, constantly. I really want these things and the wait is killing me.
Dang, you ARE an information hog! Honestly, I don't blame you for wanting all of that information because most companies frequently drop the ball and have horrid customer service. However, we do things a bit differently here. You mentioned that on the phone, you were told that your guards would ship out in roughly 7-10 days after you had placed the order which still stands unless otherwise notified by either phone or email. We call or email our customers if the status of their order changes for some reason. The Canyon Cages have been in production the passed few weeks and we're actually supposed to be picking them up from our powder coaters later this afternoon. We'll begin shipping orders first thing next week once we have time to prep the guards and get them all boxed up and ready to roll.
Regarding the emailing of notifications and stuff: I have no problem emailing customers updates on their order as well as the invoice for their order (with tracking information) once their product ships out. Generally, most people who want us to email them that sort of stuff merely request that we do so when they order. I assume if they're interested in having it, they'll ask for it. To be honest with you, though, I usually ask customers that I personally help if they'd like their invoice with tracking information emailed to them when their product ships out.
Anyhow, I'm sure your order is still safe and sound and on-track to ship out next week as scheduled. If you'd like me to email you your invoice when your shipment leaves, please PM me your email and the name you placed the order with. Oh, and before I forget, we don't charge customers credit cards until the product is actually ready to leave our facility so that's why you haven't been billed yet. I don't think it's really fair to take money for a product that isn't ready to be shipped.
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:goodpost:
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Thanks MCE. I don't recall the lady telling me that it would be 10 days before they shipped out. I'm not saying that she didn't, I just don't remember. I've ordered so much stuff for this bike in the last month I can't keep anything straight. I just got a set of LED city lights 2 days ago that I don't even remember ordering. ???
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Thanks MCE. I don't recall the lady telling me that it would be 10 days before they shipped out. I'm not saying that she didn't, I just don't remember. I've ordered so much stuff for this bike in the last month I can't keep anything straight. I just got a set of LED city lights 2 days ago that I don't even remember ordering. ???
No problem! Anyway, the lady (her name is Teri, by the way) definitely didn't tell you it would be 10 days til your product shipped out when you ordered because when I wrote that response, I meant the products should start showing up about 10 days from today. We're picking up the guards this afternoon from our powder coaters so we'll begin shipping early next week which would put them on the customers doorsteps in approximately 10 days from today. I apologize for the confusion on that! :D
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I just got a set of LED city lights 2 days ago that I don't even remember ordering. ???
:rotflmao:
I love drunken ebaying, it's awesome when stuff just show's up at my door and I'm like hey cool I've been meaning to get me one of those... ;D :chugbeer:
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:rotflmao:
I love drunken ebaying, it's awesome when stuff just show's up at my door and I'm like hey cool I've been meaning to get me one of those... ;D :chugbeer:
Ha Ha!! That's exactly what happened!! Wait a second...I ordered some Tech-spec pads too!! Crap...where the hell are they??? I think I ordered them awhile ago. Uggggggggg :o
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Ha Ha!! That's exactly what happened!! Wait a second...I ordered some Tech-spec pads too!! Crap...where the hell are they??? I think I ordered them awhile ago. Uggggggggg :o
Be careful with those Tech-Spec guys, they shipped me the wrong stuff three different times. The girl that answers the phone was really cool though, she said a few choice words about the guys in the back and then made everything right with me.
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Thanks for the heads up.
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They were currently in production when you ordered and we're actually picking them up from our powder coaters today. We'll be shipping out the next batch to people beginning next week so you guys should start to see them within about 10 days or so.
Dang, you ARE an information hog! Honestly, I don't blame you for wanting all of that information because most companies frequently drop the ball and have horrid customer service. However, we do things a bit differently here. You mentioned that on the phone, you were told that your guards would ship out in roughly 7-10 days after you had placed the order which still stands unless otherwise notified by either phone or email. We call or email our customers if the status of their order changes for some reason. The Canyon Cages have been in production the passed few weeks and we're actually supposed to be picking them up from our powder coaters later this afternoon. We'll begin shipping orders first thing next week once we have time to prep the guards and get them all boxed up and ready to roll.
Regarding the emailing of notifications and stuff: I have no problem emailing customers updates on their order as well as the invoice for their order (with tracking information) once their product ships out. Generally, most people who want us to email them that sort of stuff merely request that we do so when they order. I assume if they're interested in having it, they'll ask for it. To be honest with you, though, I usually ask customers that I personally help if they'd like their invoice with tracking information emailed to them when their product ships out.
Anyhow, I'm sure your order is still safe and sound and on-track to ship out next week as scheduled. If you'd like me to email you your invoice when your shipment leaves, please PM me your email and the name you placed the order with. Oh, and before I forget, we don't charge customers credit cards until the product is actually ready to leave our facility so that's why you haven't been billed yet. I don't think it's really fair to take money for a product that isn't ready to be shipped.
Like I said, no hit against the customer service. For example, you're on a forum devoted to a customer base for one of a number of products you offer. That alone is great, the customer service I experienced while placing my order was top notch, so I applaud you.
Again, I'm an info hog, in my job I have to be and it kind of rolls over into everything else. Everything I do has to be backed by some type of information trail, an email conversation, etc. I guess that probably drives the need for email traffic.
You mentioned some companies frequently dropping the ball and I think that is what always worries me the most. As for the charging of the card, I can accept where you're coming from, its a fair practice. Thank you for the response, I'll shoot you a PM.
I can't wait to get my cages, I love the product and I'm glad you offer them for the C14. Hell, toss some business cards in the box, I'll help spread the word.
On a different note, do you have anything in the works for a canyon cage style bar for the FJR?
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...
On a different note, do you have anything in the works for a canyon cage style bar for the FJR?
Yup... http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/search/dsp_searchForm.cfm (http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/search/dsp_searchForm.cfm)
I already clued in a buddy of mine who has an FJR.
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:rotflmao:
I love drunken ebaying, it's awesome when stuff just show's up at my door and I'm like hey cool I've been meaning to get me one of those... ;D :chugbeer:
Hey J! I think that you need to have my home address posted near your PC at home, just in case you do anymore drunken ebaying...
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Hey J! I think that you need to have my home address posted near your PC at home, just in case you do anymore drunken ebaying...
;D ;D ;D
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Yup... http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/search/dsp_searchForm.cfm (http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/search/dsp_searchForm.cfm)
I already clued in a buddy of mine who has an FJR.
Talking more about something like the canyon cages that hug the bodywork and not the large loop style.
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Problem with our website. To see the Canyon Cages for the FJR put 1200-400 in the search by keyword box on the products page and you will see them. I am working on getting the site fixed.
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Talking more about something like the canyon cages that hug the bodywork and not the large loop style.
Isn't this what you're talking about?
(http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/images/large/FJR%20CC%20010%20closeup2.JPG)
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Problem with our website. To see the Canyon Cages for the FJR put 1200-400 in the search by keyword box on the products page and you will see them. I am working on getting the site fixed.
Isn't this what you're talking about?
(http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/images/large/FJR%20CC%20010%20closeup2.JPG)
Talking more about something like the canyon cages that hug the bodywork and not the large loop style.
What they said.
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Isn't this what you're talking about?
(http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/images/large/FJR%20CC%20010%20closeup2.JPG)
I still wonder what could have been done with the Gen 1 bars.
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Isn't this what you're talking about?
(http://www.mcenterprisesusa.com/products/images/large/FJR%20CC%20010%20closeup2.JPG)
Yes, not sure how I missed that.
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Yes, not sure how I missed that.
It just blends in that much ;)
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Do the new instruction's come with torque specs? I read people were complaining that the old ones did not.
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Do the new instruction's come with torque specs? I read people were complaining that the old ones did not.
We added torque specs to the instructions a little while back on the #1400-410 (2010-2012 Concours) and the #1400-400 (2008-2009 Concours) but haven't added them for the FJR quite yet. Depending on where you're at in the queue, your instructions may or may not have this information. However, if you need it, just message me and I can send the specs over to you!
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did we ever decide which specs were correct?
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We added torque specs to the instructions a little while back on the #1400-410 (2010-2012 Concours) and the #1400-400 (2008-2009 Concours) but haven't added them for the FJR quite yet. Depending on where you're at in the queue, your instructions may or may not have this information. However, if you need it, just message me and I can send the specs over to you!
Thank you sir!! PM Sent.
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Got mine today!! I put them on in about 1 hour and added my highway pegs too. Took it out for a ride and loved them. I'm also glad I got the Larry's passenger drop pegs for the wifey. Without them it would be kinda cramped for her feet with the rear cages. Oh... I almost forgot, I installed my CalSci XL windshield too before the ride which was also great. Now I'm just waiting on my Baldwin GT seat and I will be set for some long haul rides. Can't wait!!
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Ryan - Could you post the torque specs here? I have a 2010 C14 and the instructions I received (early buyer) did not have this info.
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I have attempted to clarify the question of torque specs but nobody has really confirmed anything. The specs in the manual do not correlate with the specs that I was given by Ryan. I posted the manual info for reference. If you search you will find my post.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9386.180 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=9386.180)
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Today it was necessary to remove the 2nd Gen Canyon Cages so that I could remove the fairings and install an HID lighting kit. After FINALLY getting them off and completing the HID installation, I decided to see if I could cut the fairing vents as mentioned on the forums and install the fairings AFTER re-installing the canyon cages.
Below is a photo after the cut (I did this on both fairings). Note that you will want to cut it in a way that leaves some of the old attachment material present so it can be grabbed by the other fairing. I expect this will strengthen the connection and prevent vibration or buzzing/rubbing.
I can verify that this does, in fact, work. However, it is a nightmare of a 3D puzzle to get the fairings on with the Canyons present. So much so that I am not sure it is even worth trying. I have had a terrible time with the vented fairings even WITHOUT trying to fight the Canyons. Perhaps I don't have the "method" down, but I did FINALLY manage to get them on, and without scratching or damaging anything. I considered it a miracle.
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Ok, new here, but been investigating the Canyon Cages and need some insight.
They have two types. One sticks out from the sides of the bike and is similar to the ones on police bikes. These to me look like they protect the best keeping the ground away from the bike the most. (do they also protect legs from possible side swiping something unintentionally?) But since they stick out, they may look a little obtrusive. Does anyone have a pic of thier bike with these attached (front view)?
The other type is the one that wraps around the bottom\side. It's more low profile and looks better. But does it allow for uneven ground to touch the plastic where as the other type might not?
Any insight \arguement for either side would be very much appreciated so I can make an informed decision on which type to purchase.
(Also, earlier on I saw comments on "bathroom bars" but never found any pictures of them.....)
Thanks,
Woody
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Welcome to the forum. The police bars are often referred to as bathroom bars especially if chromed. They will afford the most protection if you can abide the looks. There are a couple of members still sporting the police bars I think. With the Canyon Cages keep in mind that they are considered tip over bars and work well for that. Uneven ground may of course reach through the bars to the plastic. The majority of the drops I've heard of caused little or know damage to the bike with the mirror tip being the most vulnerable.
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Ok, new here, but been investigating the Canyon Cages and need some insight.
Welcome!!!
See what gPink said... ditto
Pix of bathroom bars on mcenterprises' site:
http://www.mcenterprises.com/products/search/dsp_popupLargeImage.cfm?image=KAW1400-100%20large.jpg&name=1400-100 (http://www.mcenterprises.com/products/search/dsp_popupLargeImage.cfm?image=KAW1400-100%20large.jpg&name=1400-100)
http://www.mcenterprises.com/products/search/dsp_popupLargeImage.cfm?image=use%20this%20one.jpg&name=1400-110 (http://www.mcenterprises.com/products/search/dsp_popupLargeImage.cfm?image=use%20this%20one.jpg&name=1400-110)
also
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/blackpolice.jpg (http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/blackpolice.jpg)
The Canyon Cages are MUCH nicer looking
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By definition, "canyon cages" are the low profile versions... they're meant for those who ride the canyons (with more lean-in). Like you noticed, less protection that the other variety, but they do a great job in parking lot falls (several times, for some people :-[). Think of them as large frame sliders. MCE makes canyons for other sport bikes, as well.
I like it because it's low profile but still offers added protection. Decide where you want to land on protection vs appearance and purchase accordingly.
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So, what's the difference in 7/8" tubing bars and the 1" bars?
Thanks.
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I think it just had to do with when they were produced... Ryan at MCE mentioned it back in the build post, something about matching a diameter they we already producing for the rear bag guards. I'll have to look back thru those to see if I can find it.
EDIT::: Looks like the Gen 1 C14s are using the 7/8", and the Gen 2 all have the 1". Looks true for the large style, canyons and rear bags.
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Thanks. I noticed on Amazon that certain sizes did seem to fit certain years, it's just not clear. I appreciate the info.
I heard some folks were having some issues of some kind with MCE, has that cleared up?
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Either the 7/8 or 1" will fit the rear. Cages installs biggest problem seems to be an excess of factory applied loctite on the engine mount bolts.
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...
I heard some folks were having some issues of some kind with MCE, has that cleared up?
I think that might have been a different vendor, but I haven't had to purchase since we did the original build and group buy a couple years ago. It might be worth trying to PM Ryan directly ("RyanMCEnterprises"...he pops up around here from time to time) to check stock or production status.
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Yeah, maybe so. I saw in an old thread where he (Ryan) took some personal time during that group buy, but was back last year.
Thanks.
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I heard some folks were having some issues of some kind with MCE, has that cleared up?
We have never had any reported problems with MCE (not that I saw or remember, anyway). Quite the opposite. Ryan actually used this forum to help design the Canyon Cages (which was fun), then offered a discounted group-buy, communicates well, and has always stood behind the products. I have been impressed.
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We have never had any reported problems with MCE (not that I saw or remember, anyway). Quite the opposite. Ryan actually used this forum to help design the Canyon Cages (which was fun), then offered a discounted group-buy, communicates well, and has always stood behind the products. I have been impressed.
+1 My experience with 2 different purchases from MCE have been fantastic. And the quality of their products is 1st class all the way.
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I haven't had any issues with mine..
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I haven't had any issues with mine..
::)
Are they covered in dust or do you blow it off every couple weeks! .?
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Well, I actually looked at the box yesterday. But I do have the rear set installed.
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I haven't had any issues with mine..
Yep, yours are still in a box!
I had no issues with the company or Ryan. But I have developed some rust on parts of the chromed bars and bolts (mine are not the black powdercoat like most of those sold), which is surprising (since I keep them generally clean, undamaged, waxed, and the bike in a Cycle Shell when not ridden). Of course it has been 3.25 years now, but I would typically not expect rust this soon.
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Thanks guys. Wrong vendor. Ryan sounds like a stand up guy.
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I just installed the MC cages on the front and rear of my 2014.. Only issue that I see is that on the right hand side rear, the end cap of the cage contacts the bolt head on the exhaust... Is this normal or did I bugger something up?
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I just installed the MC cages on the front and rear of my 2014.. Only issue that I see is that on the right hand side rear, the end cap of the cage contacts the bolt head on the exhaust... Is this normal or did I bugger something up?
Looks like non OEM exhaust. On my 2010 it doesn't do this.
I stand corrected. I just went out and looked. Same thing on my 2010. I just barely touches.
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I installed the cages on my 2012 C-14 and had significant issues. Glad I did, but it was a hassle.
When I screwed the forward bolt in it got tight then froze. Could not get it out. For the like of of me I could not figure out what the issue was. The dealer picked it up and found the issue. The replacement bolts for the fwd mount were chrome plated, and just a touch larger than the OEM hole.
The dealer used a wire wheel to take the plating off and the other bolt went in fine. For the bolt that froze they had to tap the hole for a bigger bolt. Very poor engineering. I spent a number of years as an Aircraft Maintenance Officer in the Army, I have never seen such a dumb idea as plating the bolt and making it too big.
I had heard a lot of great reviews on this product and was profoundly disappointed with some of the parts supplied, and about $150 lighter in the wallet to fix an issue that should not have happened in the first place had they not plated the bolts.
Bryan
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I've been using chrome plated bolts, nuts and every type of hardware on everything from p.o.s cars to $100k motorcycles, never had an issue. I've been making custom parts and having them chrome plated for over 20 years. Never an issue.
Stainless steel, more problems than I can count. I have no clue as to why the general public fails to use Anti-Sieze. Had bunches of folks say "Anti-Sieze isn't necessary" or "You shouldn't have to use that stuff". Whatever. Old timey mechanics use the $h!t out of it because it works and because of all the work we had to do that could have been avoided by one cents worth of the stuff.
YMMV
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As an owner and wrencher of some classic mc's I agree. Steel bolts and aluminum cases can be a nightmare. I never sieze on almost all fasteners. A tube lasts a long time and is cheap insurance.
I've been using chrome plated bolts, nuts and every type of hardware on everything from p.o.s cars to $100k motorcycles, never had an issue. I've been making custom parts and having them chrome plated for over 20 years. Never an issue.
Stainless steel, more problems than I can count. I have no clue as to why the general public fails to use Anti-Sieze. Had bunches of folks say "Anti-Sieze isn't necessary" or "You shouldn't have to use that stuff". Whatever. Old timey mechanics use the $h!t out of it because it works and because of all the work we had to do that could have been avoided by one cents worth of the stuff.
YMMV
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I installed the cages on my 2012 C-14 and had significant issues. Glad I did, but it was a hassle.
When I screwed the forward bolt in it got tight then froze. Could not get it out. For the like of of me I could not figure out what the issue was. The dealer picked it up and found the issue. The replacement bolts for the fwd mount were chrome plated, and just a touch larger than the OEM hole.
The dealer used a wire wheel to take the plating off and the other bolt went in fine. For the bolt that froze they had to tap the hole for a bigger bolt. Very poor engineering. I spent a number of years as an Aircraft Maintenance Officer in the Army, I have never seen such a dumb idea as plating the bolt and making it too big.
I had heard a lot of great reviews on this product and was profoundly disappointed with some of the parts supplied, and about $150 lighter in the wallet to fix an issue that should not have happened in the first place had they not plated the bolts.
Bryan
Because of reading this thread when it was running, I took extra care in fitting the supplied hardware when installing my Canyon cages two weeks ago.
I installed the side bag guards first and the left side went on without a problem. On the right side I could not get the nut on the bolt that goes through the foot peg threaded enough to go through the nylon of the nut, it would go on only about 2 turns and then would seize up. I thought I may have cross threaded it so I cut the first 4 threads off and tried again, only to get the same result.
I called MCE and explained what happened and they sent another nut and bolt out to replace the bad ones.
On the fronts, after removing the first front motor bolt I ran a tap through the hole to clean the old thread locker out and tried to run the new hardware through the hole. It threaded in less than 1/2" and started to tighten up more than I felt comfortable with so I removed it and tested the OEM bolt. The OEM bolt threaded right in smoothly with just my fingers so I ran the new bolt through a die to see how it fit. I could not run the new hardware through the die with out putting it in a vice to hold it. After running the bolt through the die 3 times I tried it in the motor mount and was able to get it all the way in using mild force with a ratchet.
When I got to the other side, I ran the new bolt through the die before even trying to install it. When running it through the first time, quite a bit of the chrome coating was cut off by the die.
I would recommend that anyone trying to install MCE's Canyon cages or side bag guards check the supplied hardware before attempting to install the guards.
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Just bought a set for mine and will pay attention (and read again) when I mount them. Also bought the pegs and mounting hardware.
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Fitted a set of front and rear MC Enterprises Canyon Cages last month to my GTR1400.No dramas fitting them. Ran a tap through the engine mount and a die nut over the new mounting bolts than made sure the new mounting bolts fitted easily prior to bolting the cage in position.
Also modified the faring/cowl finning to allow removal of the fairing/cowl without having to remove the canyon cage.
Outstanding product, looks awesome and more importantly extremely functional.
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Just received my cages. The cages themselves look very well made...wish I could say the same for the hardware!
Both 10mmx60 bolts have what looks like rust about the 2nd thread down...will be getting new bolts in the am.
The rear engine bolt/shaft? Appears to be raw steel? Anyone else have concerns over time with rust/corossion?
Instructions are a little lacking. Some pics would help.
Instruction #12 ends with "..begin threading the special step nut and its 5/8" x 1/32" washer onto the protruding threads until" ...UNTIL WHAT??
Ryan, can we please get a confirmation on torque specs. I received an email from Teri stating 30-32 lb for the main bolts for both the canyon cages and rear guards. This contradicts what I have seen here and what you have previously posted.
Thanks
MichaelMichaelMotorcycle
EDIT-I heard beck from Ryan who confirmed to torque the 10mm engine bolts to 44 ft/lbs and 18-20 ft/lbs for the rear guards.
Also, whoever suggested warming the bike up first before trying to loosen the loctite on the engine bolts is a genius...
2 suggestions to make life easier. Tape up the opening to protect them and get one of those ratcheting box end 5/8" wrench.
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I'm not sure that Ryan still monitors this thread on any regular basis. If you have questions/concerns, you need to contact him directly.
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One important action to do regarding the bolts supplied for the engine mount, run a die over them as I can tell you they wont screw in without binding up into the engine. Also make sure you clean out all the old original Loctite from the engine mount threaded holes before fitting the supplied bolts.
The nut which goes on the bolt which goes through the rear mount will not be flush with the end of the bolt when tensioned up , the bolt will be a few mm counter sunk when the nut is tightened completely.
I sprayed the rear bolt with Mercury engine corrosion protector spray, coats the metal and stops corrosion.
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Just bought a set of front cages for my 2012 Connie. Read with interest the comments concerning the hardware. I'll be running a die over the bolts and/or strip off the plating with a wire wheel.
Will be doing the rears, but I first want to get the fronts on. I don't run with the panniers on 99% of the time anyway.
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Just bought a set of front cages for my 2012 Connie. Read with interest the comments concerning the hardware. I'll be running a die over the bolts and/or strip off the plating with a wire wheel.
Will be doing the rears, but I first want to get the fronts on. I don't run with the panniers on 99% of the time anyway.
The rears look really stupid without the bags on.
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The rears look really stupid without the bags on.
Yes they do. But the rear bars protect more than just the bags. Can't remember exactly what right now, though.
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Yes they do. But the rear bars protect more than just the bags. Can't remember exactly what right now, though.
Well, on mine, when I'm riding two up, they help protect my wife's gorgeous legs in the event of a mishap.
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Well, on mine, when I'm riding two up, they help protect my wife's gorgeous legs in the event of a mishap.
Funny story...had a Road King and found the limits of ground clearance is when the front crash bar lifts the front wheel off the pavement. Rebuilt the bike .... left the crash bars off ... a freak low speed tipover... rear brake pedal bent inward (no crash bar) trapping my foot while the air cleaner pushed out on my knee. Not much luck with or without.
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Just bought a set of front cages for my 2012 Connie. Read with interest the comments concerning the hardware. I'll be running a die over the bolts and/or strip off the plating with a wire wheel.
Will be doing the rears, but I first want to get the fronts on. I don't run with the panniers on 99% of the time anyway.
The fronts arrived in today's mail. Won't have a chance to get them on until the weekend. Until then, I gotta make a run and get some painter's tape, Loctite, and I'm looking at tap and die sets.........oh, and a 5/8" box end ratchet. Did I miss anything?
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I must have been lucky. I didn't use a tap/die, didn't use locktite. But I did have to buy an articulating speed wrench to get to one bolt that was just about impossible to access in any other way (it would have taken hours of tiny, partial turns with a box-end, flipping between each motion).
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I agree with Max. A ratcheting wrench is essential for installation and removal of the cages.
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I agree with Max. A ratcheting wrench is essential for installation and removal of the cages.
+2 Otherwise be prepared for 20 minutes each side turning the bolt 1/16 of a turn, turning over the box end wrench, get another 1/16 and repeat at least 100 times.
A really reliable, reputable, ratcheting wrench is essential. Now say that 5 time fast!
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A really ratcheting rebliable wrencher ratcheting redsfiisudf.....
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We have never had any reported problems with MCE (not that I saw or remember, anyway). Quite the opposite. Ryan actually used this forum to help design the Canyon Cages (which was fun), then offered a discounted group-buy, communicates well, and has always stood behind the products. I have been impressed.
Yep, got a very detailed email from Ryan yesterday after I queried him about the hardware issues reported elsewhere on this thread. He's very insistent that they get quality parts, but does acknowledge that some slip through. He'll replace what's inadequate.
He also states that the reason that some have trouble with installation is failing to tap out the loctite on the female mounting holes. I think he ought to put that in his instructions, frankly, since there is plenty of support of that idea here in this forum.
On the whole, you can certainly do worse than working with Ryan. He's a straight shooter, communicates well (and timely) and stands behind his product.
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....snip....
Instructions are a little lacking. Some pics would help.
Instruction #12 ends with "..begin threading the special step nut and its 5/8" x 1/32" washer onto the protruding threads until" ...UNTIL WHAT??
The missing word is "snug" according to Ryan.
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Hi all
Is MCE still active ? Did they change name ?
I bought some protections for my C14 from Ryan 5 years ago and am searching some more for a C10
I sent email a month ago and no reply
Their FB page has been inactive since august 2016, but their website is still operationnal
I don't understand why they dissapeared all of a sudden without any warning... What happened ?
Thanks and ride safe
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Hi all. Is MCE still active ?
Unfortunately, no.
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Where can I find the installation instructions for 2010 and up canyon cages? :)
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Found em.