Final Drive Paranoia

[Tim]

Ok, you asked. Let me explain where I’m coming from. I spent a little over 20 years in the Navy working on aircraft. In particular, I worked on egress and environmental systems. This means  I worked on Ejection Seats and air conditioning. I also was an inspector starting when I was a 3rd Class P.O. I spent several years working in Quality Assurance as I advanced through the rank’swhich means I was the inspector’s inspector. At one point I was in charge of an office which included both service and civilians’ personnel as inspectors.    QA had to inspect anything which dealt with safety of flight items. I also signed off on 17 test shots performed by the manufacturer Martin Baker in testing a new seat. The seat was fired from an F-4 with the front cockpit blocked off from the rear cockpit. This allowed live shots from the rear cockpit and not endangering the front cockpit with the pilot. Without going into great detail, the seats used dummies with sensors and not some old wino.  This all happened at China Lake, CA.

OK, what’s wrong with Lathers safety wire job? First let me say I understand automotive safety wire have requirements different than aircraft requirements. My old Ford pickup has safety wired hood bolts, which is sort of like what you did, but see #2.
1.   The wire should be pulling the bolt in a tightening direction. Not pulling with great force but the wire should be tight when picked like guitar string.
2.   The “tit” you used to tie the safety wire too does not have the means to hold the safety wire in place. A better solution would be perhaps using a safety wire type tab which would fit under the bolt.  There would have to be some modification to ensure the tab would not rotate on the drain bolt. Or find a bolt close by to place the tab. Or find enough “meat” somewhere to drill a hole to run the wire to.
3.   The wire is not twisted. This would be best but not required in this case.
4.   The pig tail is over twisted. With Safety wire pliers it’s easy to twist too tight. I myself like to do safety wire by hand until it’s time to pull it tight. I use the pliers to pull on one strand of wire and then start twisting using the pliers with the other hand on the other strand.   I pull and twist at the same time until I get at least a couple of turns. I then would finish the pig tail with the pliers.
5.    After I’m done with the twisting I cut the pig tail down to size leaving at least 6 turns. The pig tail is then bent over so it won’t cut the guy working in that same area.   
If the pigtail in this case doesn’t break from vibration (low as it is) or break when debris hits it, I would be surprised. The wire would break at the first twist. I should have also brought up the point the bolt head will not be held in place by the safety wire if it becomes loose.  Even the old hood bolts on the Ford had holes in the head of the bolt.
I would like to say I think Lather could be on to something. But for now, I will just snug the drain bolt like I have been doing. Putting safety wire on the drain bolt is going to be a pain in the caboose (technical term). it would be extremly hard to get a good job due to the loation and lack of working spsace. (could put the bike on it's side and open the space up) NOT. Besides I only have .040 stainless steel safety wire on hand. I would have to buy a roll of .030 safety wire

[gnuse]

 I don't fly people's "yard furniture", but this is a nice article of safety wire procedures.

Nice to have teachers here that can help us learn. I think this is an art that some of us struggle to do properly, but I'm learning.

http://www.ultralightnews.com/pilotslounge/safetywire.htm

[Pokey]

Meds anyone?

[koval68]

Meds anyone?

   

[ZG]

Love that one Tom! I'm saving that one for future use myself! 

[koval68]

Love that one Tom! I'm saving that one for future use myself! 

How about we share one? 
Pull out your drill.....and I'll get some safety wire.....

[ZG]

How about we share one? 
Pull out your drill.....and I'll get some safety wire.....

 

[lather]

Well, you are certainly qualified to give lessons. But maybe aviation techniques are overkill for my drain bolt. My job would have passed Wera tech, which is where I learned to safety wire. THe "tit" you speak of is actually an aluminum projection on the bottom of the rear drive case which I drilled and ran the wire through. Also, lots of miles now, 15, 20 K, and no wire breaks even with the spindly .19 galvanized.

Thanks for the critique, I learned something and aim to improve my wiring.

Ok, you asked. Let me explain where I’m coming from. I spent a little over 20 years in the Navy working on aircraft. In particular, I worked on egress and environmental systems. This means  I worked on Ejection Seats and air conditioning. I also was an inspector starting when I was a 3rd Class P.O. I spent several years working in Quality Assurance as I advanced through the rank’swhich means I was the inspector’s inspector. At one point I was in charge of an office which included both service and civilians’ personnel as inspectors.    QA had to inspect anything which dealt with safety of flight items. I also signed off on 17 test shots performed by the manufacturer Martin Baker in testing a new seat. The seat was fired from an F-4 with the front cockpit blocked off from the rear cockpit. This allowed live shots from the rear cockpit and not endangering the front cockpit with the pilot. Without going into great detail, the seats used dummies with sensors and not some old wino.  This all happened at China Lake, CA.

OK, what’s wrong with Lathers safety wire job? First let me say I understand automotive safety wire have requirements different than aircraft requirements. My old Ford pickup has safety wired hood bolts, which is sort of like what you did, but see #2.
1.   The wire should be pulling the bolt in a tightening direction. Not pulling with great force but the wire should be tight when picked like guitar string.
2.   The “tit” you used to tie the safety wire too does not have the means to hold the safety wire in place. A better solution would be perhaps using a safety wire type tab which would fit under the bolt.  There would have to be some modification to ensure the tab would not rotate on the drain bolt. Or find a bolt close by to place the tab. Or find enough “meat” somewhere to drill a hole to run the wire to.
3.   The wire is not twisted. This would be best but not required in this case.
4.   The pig tail is over twisted. With Safety wire pliers it’s easy to twist too tight. I myself like to do safety wire by hand until it’s time to pull it tight. I use the pliers to pull on one strand of wire and then start twisting using the pliers with the other hand on the other strand.   I pull and twist at the same time until I get at least a couple of turns. I then would finish the pig tail with the pliers.
5.    After I’m done with the twisting I cut the pig tail down to size leaving at least 6 turns. The pig tail is then bent over so it won’t cut the guy working in that same area.   
If the pigtail in this case doesn’t break from vibration (low as it is) or break when debris hits it, I would be surprised. The wire would break at the first twist. I should have also brought up the point the bolt head will not be held in place by the safety wire if it becomes loose.  Even the old hood bolts on the Ford had holes in the head of the bolt.
I would like to say I think Lather could be on to something. But for now, I will just snug the drain bolt like I have been doing. Putting safety wire on the drain bolt is going to be a pain in the caboose (technical term). it would be extremly hard to get a good job due to the loation and lack of working spsace. (could put the bike on it's side and open the space up) NOT. Besides I only have .040 stainless steel safety wire on hand. I would have to buy a roll of .030 safety wire

[stevewfl]

Well, you are certainly qualified to give lessons. But maybe aviation techniques are overkill for my drain bolt. My job would have passed Wera tech, which is where I learned to safety wire. THe "tit" you speak of is actually an aluminum projection on the bottom of the rear drive case which I drilled and ran the wire through. Also, lots of miles now, 15, 20 K, and no wire breaks even with the spindly .19 galvanized.

Thanks for the critique, I learned something and aim to improve my wiring.

WERA/CCS <----------------

[Conrad]

Meds anyone?

You buying?

[stevewfl]

What I want to know is what does a drain plug have in common with KIPASS?

Darn, Steve, your'e quick

Because the KiPass system transmits its mad pow-ah and protects all of the bike! 

[PH14]

While that sounds sound, an even better method would be to remove it entirely, replace it with a chain drive, update the plastics and paint, update the engine and controls, replace the single muffler with a dual exhaust system, and call it a ZX-14.    This, of course, should be done every other oil change at 9k miles.  One should also run 87 octane and put a car tire on the rear.  The front tire fitment should backwards. 

 

[Pokey]

DO NOT laugh at Jim, it just makes him more bolder as he gets to drinking!!!!!

[Conrad]

DO NOT laugh at Jim, it just makes him more bolder as he gets to drinking!!!!!

Are you saying that there are times when he's not drinking?

[Pokey]

Are you saying that there are times when he's not drinking?

Sleeping.....riding.......and working are probably about the extent. I had a few personal final drive failures on New Years!!!!!

[Conrad]

Sleeping.....riding.......and working are probably about the extent. I had a few personal final drive failures on New Years!!!!!

I understand that this can happen to some guys as they get older...

[KawiG]

Final drive drain bolt:   8.8N-m,   0.90kgf-m,    78in-lb


 It you have tightites  get a wrench and cut off 3/4 of it, than you won't be able to over tighten it.

[ZG]

Are you saying that there are times when he's not drinking?

He's usually much grumpier in those times for sure! He starts telling members to change their email address to something he makes up randomly just for his own personal kicks and to keep their post count down... He also says "update your subject line or else.."   
 
 
Love ya Jim, drink up bro, the world is a happier place when you do!           

[VirginiaJim]

    To all of you!

[Z71]

Here is an alternate way of changing your final drive oil:

Leave the drain plug in, and remove the fill plug.  Then pick up the bike with both hands, flip it upside down, and drain the oil into a suitable container.  Let drain for about 2 minutes, while holding the bike steady in its inverted position over the pan.   

Now, seriously, there is no reason to worry about stripping the drain plug housing threads or the plug leaking if you follow these simple guidelines:

1. Do not torque any type of oil pan drain bolt!  The torque values they specify may be applicable for a dry fastener, i.e. for tightening the drain plug if the final drive was bone dry.  If you apply the same torque to a well lubricated bolt, the the preload in the bolt and stresses on the threads may be twice as high as on a dry bolt.  And that's a sure recipe for stripping the aluminum threads.

2.  Just tighten the plug snugly with a box wrench or a socket and make sure that the metal washer under it is not grooved.   If it is grooved, replace it, because if you do not line the head of the plug with the groove properly, you will have a leak.   

3.  I have been changing oil on motorcycles and cars for years and never once stripped any threads in aluminum oil pans.   And I never had any drain                 
plug come loose or leak.  I know of plenty of people who did however - trying to torque them to the spec.