Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => Accessories and Modifications - C10 => Topic started by: MetrickMetal on May 08, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
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I already installed smaller main jets than what was in the carbs on the C10 I'm resurrecting, so I'm planning on doing some testing on choking down the air box intake openings, so I designed up and machined an adjustable air box intake.
The left side has the same area as the stock plastic intake opening, and the right side at full open is about 25% smaller and adjusts down from there. I machined up an aluminum block that you cannot see that I bolted to the inside of the air box for the 3rd lower mounting screw, and there is neoprene foam rubber seal between the plate and the air box.
I'm going to install the air box and see if I can locate and drill two small holes in the front of the battery box that will allow to remove the battery and adjust the sliding plate. I've made simliar adjustable air box intakes for other bikes I've owned in the past. :)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/Adjustableairboxopening_zpsc93cc172.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg136/hoggone/Concours%20pictures/011_zpsbbf43115.jpg)
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I have to say, "Nice job!" As for me and my skills I will make do with a block of foam I have in the basement. :)
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No the foam goes in the intake snorkle.
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No the foam goes in the intake snorkle.
:rotflmao:
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Looks nice! I think if the jetting is Steve's kit, you may not have enough closure on your slide for proper tuning. Something that would fully block to fully open would give you a better range to play with. Steve??
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Hey Metrick!
While I'm always interested in seeing whatever experiments people are doing with their C-10's, I just want to make sure you aren't re-inventing the wheel here.
Here's the link to Steve In Sunny Florida's website, Shoodaben Engineering. He has done extensive experimentation with the jetting of the C-10, and is worth a look if you haven't been there already.
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/ (https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/)
With the forum restart a while ago, we lost a good amount of info about Steve's older jetting efforts. He has had several iterations of his jetting kits over the last few years, with the current kits being what he considers as the 'optimal jetting' that was arrived at for each application. I'm sure he'd love to discuss jetting with you, and the pros and cons of any jetting application as it relates to the C-10, as he seems to have a passion for it, and a keener understanding than a good number of us.
That slider does look pretty snazzy though!
I look forward to reading more about your experience.
;)
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I made mine adjustable in a different way, just pop off the left side cover and adjust as needed.
First picture is showing how the intake snorkel will close up to reduce the opening.
Second picture is showing the cuts in the snorkel that allows it to close up.
Third picture is looking in the back of the air box with the intake snorkel removed.
Forth picture is looking into the opening where the filter goes in, the intake snorkel is installed and work has been completed.
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All completed.
First photo shows the lever to adjust the cam that closes down the top of the intake snorkel giving you the decreased intake ports and the lines marked with percentages of blockage.
Second photo shows air box complete.
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Metrickmetal, several of us have built adjustable restrictors for our intakes to go along with Steve's Jett Kit.
Yours looks beter than most.
The Cam idea that TurboJoe built loks interesting.
The smaller jetts and restrictor are what Steve did.
I'm wondering if your using his idea, or have reasoned out the need for the change.
Mostly trying to understand your reasoning.
Ride safe, Ted
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Problem I see is once you get the foam the correct size you are done. No need to adjust anymore. 8)
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Problem I see is once you get the foam the correct size you are done. No need to adjust anymore. 8)
Unless you decide to keep modifying your engine. I'm one who's never satisfied with "good enough"
I'm still trying to work out which carb's to go with, the 36mm ones from my Ninja or the stock 32's.
Right now I'm working on setting up the 32's and then getting to the dyno to compare with the runs from the 36mm carbs.
I also have the ability to do a quick adjust for altitude or extreme temp's.
I also won't ever have to worry about the foam wearing out, and I liked the idea of keeping the opening all the way across the box and keeping a smooth and even air flow.
I also think I see a 1052 in my future so I'll be making more adjustments ... the fun never ends! ;)
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I really like your design Joe and am trying to figure it out. Do the cams restict the openings by themselves or do the push the snorkle pieces together? Or am I totally wrong? :o
Wayne
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Wow, you guys have been busy! Some cool stuff there. I use foam with my kit because it keeps the cost and work to a minimum, and it works as well as any high-zoot restrictions. In fact the name "2 minute mod jet kit " was developed here on this forum several years ago, because we could change the jetting "in 2 minutes". We discussed making adjustable restrictors, and actually Jim Snyder is the first to have done so. Upon reviewing costs, etc on various threads, it seemed that the average connie owner - being a "frugal" guy - would be as happy with foam, as long as it was easy to install and it worked.
What I find most interesting is that when I first introduced the idea of restricting the intake for power, it met with a LOT of questions. Common hotrodding dogma has always been to open the intake, I was advocating to restrict it. Heck, there's even a factory sticker on the intake that says "do not let anything obstruct this airbox intake". Now Here we are some years later, and restricting the intake is just "the accepted way to do things". Funny how that works... Steve
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Wow, you guys have been busy! Some cool stuff there. I use foam with my kit because it keeps the cost and work to a minimum, and it works as well as any high-zoot restrictions. In fact the name "2 minute mod jet kit " was developed here on this forum several years ago, because we could change the jetting "in 2 minutes". We discussed making adjustable restrictors, and actually Jim Snyder is the first to have done so. Upon reviewing costs, etc on various threads, it seemed that the average connie owner - being a "frugal" guy - would be as happy with foam, as long as it was easy to install and it worked.
What I find most interesting is that when I first introduced the idea of restricting the intake for power, it met with a LOT of questions. Common hotrodding dogma has always been to open the intake, I was advocating to restrict it. Heck, there's even a factory sticker on the intake that says "do not let anything obstruct this airbox intake". Now Here we are some years later, and restricting the intake is just "the accepted way to do things". Funny how that works... Steve
"Google" automatically records any mention of intake restrictors on the interweb and reports them to the EPA. We're all going to prison.
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I really like your design Joe and am trying to figure it out. Do the cams restict the openings by themselves or do the push the snorkle pieces together? Or am I totally wrong? :o
Wayne
Wayne, the cams push the top of the snorkels down to close up the openings on both sides evenly.
The first picture shows me closing one side down by hand to show what it looks like in use, the second picture shows how I cut the top edge on the 90* side and cut toward the middle of the curved side.
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Wow, you guys have been busy! Some cool stuff there. I use foam with my kit because it keeps the cost and work to a minimum, and it works as well as any high-zoot restrictions. In fact the name "2 minute mod jet kit " was developed here on this forum several years ago, because we could change the jetting "in 2 minutes". We discussed making adjustable restrictors, and actually Jim Snyder is the first to have done so. Upon reviewing costs, etc on various threads, it seemed that the average connie owner - being a "frugal" guy - would be as happy with foam, as long as it was easy to install and it worked.
What I find most interesting is that when I first introduced the idea of restricting the intake for power, it met with a LOT of questions. Common hotrodding dogma has always been to open the intake, I was advocating to restrict it. Heck, there's even a factory sticker on the intake that says "do not let anything obstruct this airbox intake". Now Here we are some years later, and restricting the intake is just "the accepted way to do things". Funny how that works... Steve
Steve, I had all the stuff I needed to create my version just laying around asking to be used up. (except the round wood stock, cost me around $3.00)
I think last time I had spoke to you we discussed me changing all the jetting from the 36mm carbs over to the 32's so I knew there was going to be allot more tuning and then dyno runs. I already had the 36's out to change the fuel rail "O" rings so getting the airbox out to play with it was no problem. Also had plenty of time to experiment during the long cold winter.
Joe
[/b]
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Wayne, the cams push the top of the snorkels down to close up the openings on both sides evenly.
The first picture shows me closing one side down by hand to show what it looks like in use, the second picture shows how I cut
the top edge on the 90* side and cut toward the middle of the curved side.
Thanks Joe, I am too lazy to do it but the next time those carbs are out! :D Maybe. Well thought out sir.
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Interesting idea... my 1982 Yamaha XZ550 Vision has this idea already, it has a flapper door in the intake opening of the airbox that operates under spring tension and venturi vacuum and later, as a service bulletin fix, a vacuum operated flapper, with a vacuum tube from the replacement top of the front carb as a cure for the Vision 'stumble'... those carbs are down draft and sorta like Weber 1 bbl carbs, with accelerator pumps, so the carbs needed the increased vacuum to flow fuel, hence the restriction of the intake air... with a couple nickels taped to the flapper, it would then give more restriction, to give a better fuel flow... and less stumble under full throttle... hmmm.
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Well, since it came back to life, I have a question that I just haven't had the time to diagose. I have the "power" kit from Steve with pretty much 40% foam blocking (almost one complete snorkle opening). No engine mods other than the 4 degree advance plate that has been in this thing for years, a K&N filter (properly oiled as far as I can tell), and T-Cro's coils. When cold, it starts up great with a hit of the choke, I give it a few seconds to smooth out, and away I go. Runs like a top in all RPM ranges. If it is an exceptionally hot day, it will sometimes stumble at a traffic light and will sometimes want to cut off if I don't add a few RPMs. It it does cut off under this condition, it needs a little bit of cranking with absolutely NO throttle.
So, does is this mean I need to ADD a little bit more of the blocking foam? Is it better or any difference to split the blocking to each snorkle opening? For those running foam blocks, how much are you using (as a percent)?
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Well, since it came back to life, I have a question that I just haven't had the time to diagose. I have the "power" kit from Steve with pretty much 40% foam blocking (almost one complete snorkle opening). No engine mods other than the 4 degree advance plate that has been in this thing for years, a K&N filter (properly oiled as far as I can tell), and T-Cro's coils. When cold, it starts up great with a hit of the choke, I give it a few seconds to smooth out, and away I go. Runs like a top in all RPM ranges. If it is an exceptionally hot day, it will sometimes stumble at a traffic light and will sometimes want to cut off if I don't add a few RPMs. It it does cut off under this condition, it needs a little bit of cranking with absolutely NO throttle.
So, does is this mean I need to ADD a little bit more of the blocking foam? Is it better or any difference to split the blocking to each snorkle opening? For those running foam blocks, how much are you using (as a percent)?
How many turns out are your idle air screws? If it only does that when it's really hot my thought is it could be running a little rich at idle.
An easy test could be you turning your idle air screws in 1/8 turn and see if it still runs like that when hot.
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I have them out 2 turns per the "kit" instructions (I think that is what it said). I'll give it a try. So is 40% blockage a decent or standard amount of "blocking"?
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I have them out 2 turns per the "kit" instructions (I think that is what it said). I'll give it a try. So is 40% blockage a decent or standard amount of "blocking"?
I'm guessing that your foam for 40% blockage is around 1-3/4" long, I believe that is what SISF recommends as a starting point and for some it works just fine.
If you have another piece of foam you could try cutting it 1/8" smaller than your current size and see how that works but I would only make one of the adjustments at a time so you can see how each difference affects your bike.
Right now I'm running at 36% to 37% blockage and the bike is running great, but I've got SISF's power cams and very different jetting than his standard 2mm jet kit.
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Thank you Sir - Just what I was looking for.