Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours

[Big Red]

I read an article that implied a universal sensor like the AUTEL MX sensor transmits all possible protocols, but I question that idea since it would drain the battery quicker/sooner :  more transmissions = less battery life.

It CAN transmit most protocols. Once you program it, it only transmits the one you've selected.

[dbird29]

STC14Jim,
When you talk to Autel see if there is a limit on how many programming changes the MX sensor can support.
Could be a lot of attempts at finding the protocol for newer C14 sensors (if there is a difference).
Also would be interesting if the newer C14 sensors wake up to the 125 KHz interrogation signal.

https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/tpms-radio-frequency-theory-and-operation/

"The majority of TPMS sensors are activated with a low-frequency signal (125 kHz) coming from a TPMS tool. This radio signal varies from vehicle to vehicle (some require more power than others) and forces the sensor to transmit. This signal excites the antenna coil in the sensor."

The Kawasaki sensors are made by LDL ( French Company ) as well as sensors on Honda's and Triumph's.
My guess is that all these sensors use the same protocol - why would LDL go to the trouble & expense of using different protocols in each make ?  But some might use different frequencies.   315 MHz is most common in the US ( but not mandatory ) and 433 MHz is most common in Europe & Asia.

My bet is the protocol used is decided by LDL , not the various manufactures ( make ) that they supply to.
It looks to me like LDL has a corner on the motorcycle market.

I read an article that implied a universal sensor like the AUTEL MX sensor transmits all possible protocols, but I question that idea since it would drain the battery quicker/sooner :  more transmissions = less battery life.

I think I may give  the AUTEL tech line another call to verify that.

[Big Red]

Just want to put it out there again, if anyone has a newer model sensor, I'd love to borrow it to try to ping it.

[dbird29]

Is there anyone local to you that could ride their bike over to get pinged?
You don't need it removed from the rim do you?

Just want to put it out there again, if anyone has a newer model sensor, I'd love to borrow it to try to ping it.

[Big Red]

No, I don't need the sensor removed, but I would have to know someone who had one. Not much of a social rider, so I don't know any newer gen C14 guys. Heck, I only sorta know one other older gen guy.

[SVonhof]

No, I don't need the sensor removed, but I would have to know someone who had one. Not much of a social rider, so I don't know any newer gen C14 guys. Heck, I only sorta know one other older gen guy.

Post up where you are located again and maybe somebody reading will know somebody local to you.

Heck, when this thread started, I was in central California and am now in Pinehurst, NC.

[Big Red]

Phoenix, East Valley

[Freddy]

STC said: My bet is the protocol used is decided by LDL , not the various manufactures (make) that they supply to.

Only the early version of Kaw TPMS sensors were made by LDL as we know - the ones with fairly easily replaceable batteries. 
A few years ago I 'played with' a couple different LDL sensor for non-Kaw bikes using 433MHz.  I have KDS and entered the ID number into KIPASS - they did not work.  I contacted LDL in France to ask why.  They graciously replied by saying that the 'baud rate' - (the rate at which information is transferred in a communication channel) is different. 

[STC14JIM]

Freddy :  Do you know who makes the newer ( potted ) sensors ?

And do you mean the 433 MHz sensors wouldn't work in a late model C-14 or and early model C-14 ?  I would think the later model sensors would also operate on 315 MHz so a different immobilzer/TPMS module wouldn't be required.  If so, I'm not surprised the 433 MHz sensors wouldn't work.  But I don't think it has anything to do with the "baud rate".

[dbird29]

The new sensors are 315MHz sensors too so there is no 433 MHz issue. Otherwise any old sensor bike would be out of luck for replacement or the KIPASS ECU would need replaced to accomodate the 433 MHz sensors.

2010 model year:
SENSOR,TPMS 315MHZ
21176-0125
Kawasaki
Currently Unavailable.

2020 model year:
Kawasaki
SENSOR,TPMS 315MHZ
Item #: 21176-0748
$198.48

[Freddy]

315 sensors are used in C14 bikes only in North America - rest of world has 433.  I don't live in North America, hence I 'play with' 433 sensors.  Schrader make the 'new' 433 sensors.

[dbird29]

What are those part numbers?
I was addressing old 315 to new 315, interesting Kawasaki would not standardize wirldwide.

315 sensors are used in C14 bikes only in North America - rest of world has 433.  I don't live in North America, hence I 'play with' 433 sensors.  Schrader make the 'new' 433 sensors.

[Freddy]

LDL version:

Part Number
21176-0724
Description
SENSOR,TPMS 434MHZ
Price $A352.35


Schrader version:

Part Number
21176-0746
Description
SENSOR,TPMS 434MHZ
Price $A335.80


If the manufacturer says their sensors won't work in other makes of bike even tho frequency is the same and says why, I believe em.   

[dbird29]

Thanks Freddy!

[deepseamdv]

It wasn’t up to Kawasaki, radio frequency is dictated by Government.

[Freddy]

Yes.

433.92MHz to be precise for rest of world. 

[STC14JIM]

Phoenix, East Valley

BigRed :

A guy ( T800XC ) on the Triumph Trophy Forum has got the MX sensor to work on his Triumph but he said the stem diameter of the MX sensor is different than the Triumph stem diameter.

Is this an issue on the Concours ??

[STC14JIM]

STC14Jim,
When you talk to Autel see if there is a limit on how many programming changes the MX sensor can support.
SNIP ........

A guy on the Triumph Trophy Forum ( T800XC ) has progrmmed a MX sensor many times w/o any problems - so apparently that's not an issue.

https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/tpms-radio-frequency-theory-and-operation/

"The majority of TPMS sensors are activated with a low-frequency signal (125 kHz) coming from a TPMS tool. This radio signal varies from vehicle to vehicle (some require more power than others) and forces the sensor to transmit. This signal excites the antenna coil in the sensor."

BTW, The short coil inside the sensor is used to transmit the 315 or 433 MHz.   The 125 KHz receiver just uses a tank circuit to tune to that frequency.  At that lower frequency ( wavelength is about 2,400 meters ) an antenna isn't practical.  The signal strength is high enough at 125 KHz for a tank circuit to work just fine.

[dbird29]

Yep an antenna for 125Mhz would be kind of hard to package in the sensor as the wavelength is over 2 km.
Also you wouldn't want an etire garge of vehicles to respond to the inquiry signal for the TPMS. :-) so a tank circuit is sensitive enough.

I'm just happy that Freddy and Big Red have found an answer to dead sensors that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars and a dealer trip.
Easily available too.

[STC14JIM]

+1 for sure !!