Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: johnchen on April 13, 2022, 08:00:46 AM

Title: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: johnchen on April 13, 2022, 08:00:46 AM
My TPMS went bad, not just low battery. I try Mazda 3 TPMS on my front wheel and it works.
1. Get Mazda 3 TPMS from eBay $15, P/N BBM2-37-140B
2. Read TPMS ID by autel maxitpms pad
3. Register TPMS ID by KDS3
4. Install TPMS
Done
My concours don't read Mazda TPMS by spinning on bicycle wheel, but reads after install on my front wheel.
Maybe spinning + tire pressure can wake TPMS
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: robertv on April 13, 2022, 10:48:47 AM
Wow thanks for sharing especially an alternate and less expensive TPMS!

Curious though to get the TPMS ID from this device Autel MaxiTPMS pad-- what is this and what's the cost of that since that will probably need to be factored in?

I'm assuming the Mazda 3 TPMS is similar in size and no issues mounting into the C14 wheel. Hopefully you can share pictures of said device and Mazda TPMS.


-Robert
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 13, 2022, 11:12:42 AM
 :banana

How did you figure that out?!

This gives me an idea. I have my old TPMS sensors and a benchtop power supply. I could power my old sensors, clone the ID to a new one and it SHOULD work. Interesting...
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 13, 2022, 11:47:33 AM
Curious though to get the TPMS ID from this device Autel MaxiTPMS pad-- what is this and what's the cost of that since that will probably need to be factored in?

The Autel TPMS pad is less than $70 from Amazon. And while Autel sensors are $32 a piece, that may negate needing to take the bike in for re-programming if you have the old sensors.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: maxtog on April 14, 2022, 05:59:53 AM
My TPMS went bad, not just low battery. I try Mazda 3 TPMS on my front wheel and it works.
1. Get Mazda 3 TPMS from eBay $15, P/N BBM2-37-140B
2. Read TPMS ID by autel maxitpms pad
3. Register TPMS ID by KDS3
4. Install TPMS
Done
My concours don't read Mazda TPMS by spinning on bicycle wheel, but reads after install on my front wheel.
Maybe spinning + tire pressure can wake TPMS

Are you kidding?  You mean like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363293141961?hash=item5495f56bc9:g:NTgAAOSwxkBgIUPX

Seriously?  $42 for FOUR of them?  And they work?  This is *MAJOR* since they cost a fortune from Kawasaki.  Looks like they are always sold in 4's but at that cheap you can store the other two in the freezer for future use.  How in the world did you discover this???

But why would you need to buy the $52 "Autel MaxiTPMS PAD TPMS Sensor Programming Accessory Device Tire Pressure Tool"?  Wouldn't the ID be printed on the sensor?  It looks like the pad will create a compatible ID for the appropriate vehicle, so it might be required.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154944096519?epid=2286885481&hash=item2413634907:g:NTkAAOSwTVxiVNq9

Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 14, 2022, 09:21:52 AM
Maxtog,

The Autel pad is for cloning the sensor ID, so that you don't need to take the bike in for programming. As far as the bike is concerned, it thinks it's the old sensor.

I've got stuff arriving today. If it works, I'll post about it in a new thread. I'm being quick about it because I've already ordered a new front tire. We shall see.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: maxtog on April 14, 2022, 03:08:11 PM
The Autel pad is for cloning the sensor ID, so that you don't need to take the bike in for programming. As far as the bike is concerned, it thinks it's the old sensor.

Oh!  That would be even MORE awesome.

Quote
I've got stuff arriving today. If it works, I'll post about it in a new thread. I'm being quick about it because I've already ordered a new front tire. We shall see.

Great!  I can't wait to see/hear the details.  At lot of us wish this stuff were around forever ago.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 14, 2022, 06:09:06 PM
So I successfully cloned my ID to a new sensor. I’m going to roll the $30 dice and have it installed on my front tire when I change my front.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: maxtog on April 14, 2022, 08:17:29 PM
So I successfully cloned my ID to a new sensor.

With the PAD thing and software?  Which sensor was cloned?

Quote
I’m going to roll the $30 dice

What is the $30?

Quote
and have it installed on my front tire when I change my front.

Does the currently installed sensor weak battery?
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: johnchen on April 14, 2022, 08:44:46 PM
Are you kidding?  You mean like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363293141961?hash=item5495f56bc9:g:NTgAAOSwxkBgIUPX

Seriously?  $42 for FOUR of them?  And they work?  This is *MAJOR* since they cost a fortune from Kawasaki.  Looks like they are always sold in 4's but at that cheap you can store the other two in the freezer for future use.  How in the world did you discover this???

But why would you need to buy the $52 "Autel MaxiTPMS PAD TPMS Sensor Programming Accessory Device Tire Pressure Tool"?  Wouldn't the ID be printed on the sensor?  It looks like the pad will create a compatible ID for the appropriate vehicle, so it might be required.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154944096519?epid=2286885481&hash=item2413634907:g:NTkAAOSwTVxiVNq9

Yes, I use this TPMS
Autel MaxiTPMS PAD is to read ID on new TPMS which will not come with ID printed outside.
Any TPMS programmer should be able to read ID from this TPMS.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: johnchen on April 14, 2022, 08:52:46 PM
:banana

How did you figure that out?!

This gives me an idea. I have my old TPMS sensors and a benchtop power supply. I could power my old sensors, clone the ID to a new one and it SHOULD work. Interesting...

Just want to save some money... haha..
With programmable TPMS should work, I bought Mazda TPMS long time ago, I can register ID to C14, I never read PSI from this sensor by spinning it, but C14 shows 0PSI when I wake TPMS by tool, so the only problem is that I cannot make sure how to wake TPMS without tool.
This time my C14 TPMS dead, just try to install Mazda TPMS and it works...
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: johnchen on April 14, 2022, 09:01:28 PM
So I successfully cloned my ID to a new sensor. I’m going to roll the $30 dice and have it installed on my front tire when I change my front.

You can turn C14 key on, wait for 2 mins, wake TPMS by tool or read this TPMS by tool.
C14 should alert the Front tire low pressure.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 14, 2022, 09:40:09 PM
With the PAD thing and software?  Which sensor was cloned?

What is the $30?

Does the currently installed sensor weak battery?

When I bought my bike, it came with the original sensors, not installed. I got some “universal” TPMS sensors that were $30 a piece. There is no currently installed sensor. I believe the sensors have been dead so long that there has been component failure. There is the ID tag on it, though.

I’ll try the two minutes, then wake the sensor tomorrow before I head to work.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: robertv on April 15, 2022, 07:26:01 AM
Thank you both for the updates! 

How easy is it to replace the TPMS battery? And what size/type?  That was the problem with the 2nd gen C14 TPMS where it was difficult to replace the battery compared to the 1st gen TPMS.

Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: SVonhof on April 15, 2022, 07:44:45 AM
Subscribed to this for future needs.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 15, 2022, 08:53:16 AM
So turning the bike on, waiting, then waking the sensor yielded no results. I'm going to install the sensor anyway. If still nothing, then I'll have my Kawi dealer program the ECU for the sensor. It's possible the sensors I got weren't the original ones to the bike. You never know. I am not giving up, though. My new front tire should be here today. I might get it installed this weekend. Dunno.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: johnchen on April 16, 2022, 02:11:28 PM
So turning the bike on, waiting, then waking the sensor yielded no results. I'm going to install the sensor anyway. If still nothing, then I'll have my Kawi dealer program the ECU for the sensor. It's possible the sensors I got weren't the original ones to the bike. You never know. I am not giving up, though. My new front tire should be here today. I might get it installed this weekend. Dunno.

May I know how do you program universal TPMS? Program it as Mazda3 model?

Another debug suggestion.
1. Copy your rear wheel sensor to universal TPMS by choosing Mazda3 model. (Rear sensor works when you are riding C14 right)
2. Turn on C14, wait for 2 mins (service manual says 3 mins), Wake universal TPMS and you should see rear tire low pressure.
     a. If you see rear tire low pressue, Front TPMS ID in KIPASS does not match with the sensor come with your C14.
     b. If you see nothing, we sould figure out what happens on your universal TPMS and programmer.

BTW, I just come back after 100mile riding, Mazda3 TPMS working no problem.
If you are in SF bay area, maybe I can help to read ID, my KDS3 SW was old, not sure if I can read newer model after 2011.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: SVonhof on April 16, 2022, 02:40:58 PM
If you are in SF bay area, maybe I can help to read ID, my KDS3 SW was old, not sure if I can read newer model after 2011.

Good for you for offering to help if people are in the area. I don't think BigRed is, but it's good to offer.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 18, 2022, 11:49:46 AM
Thanks for the offer. I'm not in your area, though. I'll get it figured out, one way or another.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Bagger John on April 19, 2022, 08:19:41 AM
Definitely of interest to me.

My '12 is starting to show a Low TPMS Battery indication and I may try this for an experiment. I recently came into possession of a KDS3 and can go the ECU registration route if need be.

Question about the Autel MaxiTPMS pad: Which OSes are supported by its software?
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 19, 2022, 08:54:16 AM
I believe the pad only supports Windows. Worked fine on my Windows 10 Surface.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on April 19, 2022, 03:52:48 PM
Ok I'm going to try the Mazda sensors and Autel pad. Figured I can get the ID from the stock sensors before they go completely dead and change them at the next tire change or do the zip tie tire bead break and change them right away.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: kzz1king on April 19, 2022, 07:31:59 PM
Ok I'm going to try the Mazda sensors and Autel pad. Figured I can get the ID from the stock sensors before they go completely dead and change them at the next tire change or do the zip tie tire bead break and change them right away.


I thought you just had to read the Mazda sensors to get a number to program in with the KDS? 
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: johnchen on April 20, 2022, 07:44:39 AM
I guess Autel Programmable Universal TPMS also works
Just copy from Kawasaki TPMS by choosing Mazda3 model so don't need to modify ID by KDS3

Will try when I have chance.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Bagger John on April 20, 2022, 12:03:23 PM
Is there a Mazda 3 sensor of the "sled" style (like the C14 uses) - rather than the "flag" style like I'm finding most places online? The latter is made to lie parallel to the tire tread when used in an automotive rim. Putting them in a Concours rim is IMHO cutting tolerances a mite too close, as they'll protrude out of the rim well and may be damaged in the event the bike hits a large obstruction.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on April 20, 2022, 12:48:51 PM
My understanding is that you clone the Kawasaki IDs into the Mazda 315MHz sensors so there is no need for KDS.

Also wonder if the universal type that is a "sled" shape would work with the Autel programmer.

Hmmmm


I thought you just had to read the Mazda sensors to get a number to program in with the KDS?
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 20, 2022, 02:59:25 PM
I dunno is there's a sled one that'll work. If anyone finds one, I'll be willing to give it a try. I've got my new TPMS programmed and I'm going to try to get it installed this weekend. Lots of projects at home.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on April 20, 2022, 03:10:09 PM
What was your procedure?
Just looking for the order of the steps, etc.

I dunno is there's a sled one that'll work. If anyone finds one, I'll be willing to give it a try. I've got my new TPMS programmed and I'm going to try to get it installed this weekend. Lots of projects at home.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 20, 2022, 03:50:07 PM
The OEM sensors I have (which I still don't know if they're the original sensors for the bike) had the ID# sticker on them. I used the Autel pad and programmed the ID into the universal Mazda compatible sensor. Then I'll have the sensor installed with the tire.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on April 23, 2022, 05:11:05 PM

So the Mazda sensors are if you have a KDS.
I am trying to get the Autel MaxiPAD to read the Kawasaki (Schrader) sensors but it has not worked with the bike on for a few minutes.
I need to take the bike around the block to get the sensors turned on (or they have gone dead and are not reading).

I did some Googling and the Mazda (Continental FCC ID KR5S180052015B) sensors have a different emissions designator than the Kawasaki (Schrader FCC ID MRXKAW4) OEM sensors.
Mazda = Emissions Designator 138KF1D. 138Khz FM modulation
Kawasaki = Emissions Designator 99K0L1D 99kHz Pulse Width Modulation

Hmmmm....



My understanding is that you clone the Kawasaki IDs into the Mazda 315MHz sensors so there is no need for KDS.

Also wonder if the universal type that is a "sled" shape would work with the Autel programmer.

Hmmmm
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: johnchen on April 24, 2022, 12:07:24 AM
You don't need to ride C14 to turn on TPMS, Kawasaki TPMS can be waked up by Autel MaxiPAD, just place it close to sensor and test it, you will get ID form sensor.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: maxtog on April 24, 2022, 07:31:33 AM
You don't need to ride C14 to turn on TPMS, Kawasaki TPMS can be waked up by Autel MaxiPAD, just place it close to sensor and test it, you will get ID form sensor.

I thought the sensors (Kawasaki, anyway) went into deep sleep and would not respond to anything until the motion sensors physically activated them.  If it had to "listen" for a signal all the time, I would think that would degrade the batteries pretty badly.... especially since in normal operation, I thought they never listen, only transmit.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on April 24, 2022, 07:47:01 AM
I will try to wake the sensor with the pad again after the F1 race and then do a ride around the block if that doesn't work.

I wonder if the Kawasaki sensor uses a "roll switch" to turn on.
(from Wiki)
 The acceleration sensor may be a simple switch rather than an analog transducer (accelerometer). This is usually referred to as a roll switch. The acceleration sensor allows the TPM to be placed in a low-power communication device mode, when the vehicle is stationary which can extend the battery life. The advantage of a roll switch over an accelerometer is that the switch is purely mechanical and doesn't use any power to take a measurement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_TPMS
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on April 24, 2022, 11:04:09 AM
No go on the Autel Maxi Pad reading the Kawasaki sensors whether I just turned on stationary or rode the bike (pressure di display on dash after riding). The Ebay Mazda sensors and the other vehicles in the garage read fine.
Stumped in Utah.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 25, 2022, 10:27:02 PM
Dropped my tire off today for install. I’ll have it back tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 26, 2022, 09:55:25 AM
No go on the Autel Maxi Pad reading the Kawasaki sensors whether I just turned on stationary or rode the bike (pressure di display on dash after riding). The Ebay Mazda sensors and the other vehicles in the garage read fine.
Stumped in Utah.

What protocol did you use to try to read the sensor?
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on April 26, 2022, 10:59:20 AM
I used the Mazda 3 setting. This bike is a 2010 model and I wonder if that LDL Technology sensor doesn't support the 125 kHz wake function.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 26, 2022, 11:41:26 AM
Maybe. I couldn't read mine either, but I think that's because they'd been dead a long time before I tried to power them back up. I'm using the ID code on the sensor itself to program the new sensor. If the bike doesn't see it, I'll take it down to my Kawi dealer and they'll hook the bike up and check the programming.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 26, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Holy $h!tballs!!! It works! I took the sensor number off of the OEM sensor and programmed the Mazda sensor with the pad!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52032924229_df01c54907_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ngYkzg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52032675051_3ce2bcbce5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ngX4v6)
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 26, 2022, 07:40:09 PM
Thank you, johnchen!

Write up is here, as promised: https://zggtr.org/index.php?topic=25416
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on April 27, 2022, 04:25:24 PM
Fantastic Big Red

Thanks

https://zggtr.org/index.php?topic=25416
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: kzz1king on April 27, 2022, 06:54:37 PM
Where are the I'd numbers on the new style? Just curious . I will check mine out next tire change. Hats of to those that made another option possible.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on April 28, 2022, 12:27:55 PM
It looks like they may have hid it in the barcode. There's no hex number anywhere from the pics I've looked at. However, if you disregard the first 4 digits of the barcode, you do end up with a 8 digit hex number like the old sensors. I'd love to mess with one to see if I could read it and compare the transmitted hex to the barcode. If someone has a new model TPMS with a battery going bad that I could play with, let me know.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: chap on June 19, 2022, 01:42:09 PM

My concours don't read Mazda TPMS by spinning on bicycle wheel, but reads after install on my front wheel.
Maybe spinning + tire pressure can wake TPMS
[/quote]

Did you have the engine running when you tested the sensors. I noticed on my 2010 it wasnt reading just spinning the wheel, but starting the engine it read ok.

Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on June 20, 2022, 11:07:00 AM
If I put it on the center stand, key on engine off and spin the tire mounted, it reads. Doesn't really matter, as I was trying to prove it before installing. Didn't matter as it is verified to work.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: speedracersworld on July 29, 2022, 03:38:11 PM
The Autel MX3 TPMS Sensors are tiny compared to the stock or other OEM Mazda sensors. That should help minimize the centrifugal weight & the balancing of the wheels with less weight.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on August 01, 2022, 10:22:14 AM
I've been rolling around for about 3.5 months, and they're working great. They read about 2 psi low, but it's plenty close enough.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on August 01, 2022, 08:28:50 PM
Waiting for new tire time, soon.....
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: BruceR on August 02, 2022, 02:01:16 PM
Anyone know a good technique to pinch a tire bead?  i'd like to be able to remove the sensors without dismounting the tires (if possible).
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on August 02, 2022, 02:35:52 PM
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/pliers/locking-pliers/11-inch-swivel-pad-lock-grip-pliers-39535.html
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: BruceR on August 03, 2022, 10:27:19 AM
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/pliers/locking-pliers/11-inch-swivel-pad-lock-grip-pliers-39535.html
Haha.  I was trying to complicate the issue.  That will be easy enough.  My bike still has the original '08 sensors.  I don't remember what a good tire pressure reading looks like anymore.
Good info in this post.  Thanks for doing the legwork on this.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on August 31, 2022, 08:34:25 AM
Just mounted up some Dunlop Mutants and changed out the sensors for Autel MX programmable sensors. They work just fine with the Mazda 3 protocol and the Hex code was on the original gen1 sensors. Easy peasy
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: deepseamdv on August 31, 2022, 07:50:46 PM
What are you planning to do with your old sensors? I’d like to get them for some testing if possible.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on August 31, 2022, 09:06:49 PM
They are 1st gen from 2010 but I have no real plans for them after I see if the programmable ones keep working. Which I'm sure they will..


What are you planning to do with your old sensors? I’d like to get them for some testing if possible.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: STC14JIM on November 20, 2022, 08:25:48 AM
Where are the I'd numbers on the new style? Just curious . I will check mine out next tire change. Hats of to those that made another option possible.

When i talked to the guy at AUTEL technical help he told a new AUTEL MX "universal" sensor don't come programmed with an ID.

He also said they don't support LDL sensors because AUTEL doesn't support motorcycle applications.  So LDL must have a corner on the motorcycle market.   I know besides Kawasaki,  Honda and Triumph uses LDL sensors.   

He also said when programming a new AUTEL MX sensor besides programming in the ID,  you are also setting up the new AUTEL sensor to conform to a certain protocol so that's what needing to tell the MAXI PAD what make & model is all about ( as has been explained previously ).
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: VirginiaJim on November 20, 2022, 04:47:08 PM
I have an issue with my 16 Tacoma with a sensor gone bad.  Fine in the summer months but once it gets cold it flakes out (much like me).  I bought an Autel MaxiTPMS TS408 along with an MX universal metal valve.  They offer a rubber MX valve as well.  The claim is that you only need to stock two types of sensors.  I bought their metal one for the Tacoma.  I went in through my OBD2 scanner (Carista) and documented the sensors in the computer.  I then used the TS408 on each wheel to see which one was partly dead.  All wheels replied except the left front and by process of elimination determined the id of the offending unit.  I programmed the MX metal sensor with the id of the failed unit.  I'll be taking the truck in on Tuesday to get the tire people to change it out.  I don't have any way to break the bead on the tire to put it in myself unfortunately.  I don't see why the TS408 wouldn't work on a C14 as all I need to do is put in the Mazda year that works. 
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on November 20, 2022, 05:29:45 PM
I'm reasonably sure it WILL work. It's just a matter of finding another compatible protocol. I find it hard to believe that Kawasaki would go to a completely unique standard. It just doesn't make sense when there are so many decent ones out there already. Just a matter of sitting by a working newer model sensor and pinging it with a bajillion protocols to see how it reports back.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: VirginiaJim on November 21, 2022, 03:52:48 AM
So there are several considerations when working with these sensors...  ID, Frequency, and protocol ?   The MX sensors will do both 315Mhz and 433Mhz.  My TS408 needs an input of what vehicle you are doing.  I guess that's what determines the protocol.  Kawasaki should not be doing something completely unique.  Totally unlike them.  They use other manufacturers stuff.



Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: VirginiaJim on November 21, 2022, 04:08:35 AM
I went back into my TS408 and looked at the settings for a Mazda 3.  There are 7 broken out by years from 2004 to 2021.  2014 through 2019 are labeled indirect without a frequency designation.  They do have a 2007 through 2009 setting. 


When programming a MX sensor for my Tacoma it didn't really ask about year but I was in the 'last' test section for my Tacoma.  Now that I'm looking at it again I have these options.  Scan all sensors (which I did).  Scan a single sensor, program a sensor (which i did yesterday), Relearn procedure, and sensor information which breaks down further to OE and MX.  Nothing on MX but OE has the following:  Manufacturer (Pacific), OE Freq (315Mhz), Relearn type (C), OE part number (4260748010), Number on Sensor (PMV-C015). 


I'm just bringing this up to just add more information concerning the sensor.  I know I would love to scan an OE for the Kawi just to see what comes up.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: STC14JIM on November 21, 2022, 07:18:36 AM
The Kawasaki sensors are made by LDL ( French Company ) as well as sensors on Honda's and Triumph's.
My guess is that all these sensors use the same protocol - why would LDL go to the trouble & expense of using different protocols in each make ?  But some might use different frequencies.   315 MHz is most common in the US ( but not mandatory ) and 433 MHz is most common in Europe & Asia.

My bet is the protocol used is decided by LDL , not the various manufactures ( make ) that they supply to.
It looks to me like LDL has a corner on the motorcycle market.

I read an article that implied a universal sensor like the AUTEL MX sensor transmits all possible protocols, but I question that idea since it would drain the battery quicker/sooner :  more transmissions = less battery life.

I think I may give  the AUTEL tech line another call to verify that.

EDIT :  Called the AUTEL tech line and the guy said " No, once programmed the MX universal sensors only transmit 1 protocaol not all possible protocols".   That makes sense to me, as far as conserving battery life.  He said the MX sensors battery should last about 7 years.  They are epoxy potted so a new sensor would ahve to be bought when the batteries are depleted.  For $30 a pop I don't see an issue with that.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on November 21, 2022, 08:29:28 AM
I read an article that implied a universal sensor like the AUTEL MX sensor transmits all possible protocols, but I question that idea since it would drain the battery quicker/sooner :  more transmissions = less battery life.

It CAN transmit most protocols. Once you program it, it only transmits the one you've selected.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on November 21, 2022, 09:53:27 AM
STC14Jim,
When you talk to Autel see if there is a limit on how many programming changes the MX sensor can support.
Could be a lot of attempts at finding the protocol for newer C14 sensors (if there is a difference).
Also would be interesting if the newer C14 sensors wake up to the 125 KHz interrogation signal.

https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/tpms-radio-frequency-theory-and-operation/

"The majority of TPMS sensors are activated with a low-frequency signal (125 kHz) coming from a TPMS tool. This radio signal varies from vehicle to vehicle (some require more power than others) and forces the sensor to transmit. This signal excites the antenna coil in the sensor."


The Kawasaki sensors are made by LDL ( French Company ) as well as sensors on Honda's and Triumph's.
My guess is that all these sensors use the same protocol - why would LDL go to the trouble & expense of using different protocols in each make ?  But some might use different frequencies.   315 MHz is most common in the US ( but not mandatory ) and 433 MHz is most common in Europe & Asia.

My bet is the protocol used is decided by LDL , not the various manufactures ( make ) that they supply to.
It looks to me like LDL has a corner on the motorcycle market.

I read an article that implied a universal sensor like the AUTEL MX sensor transmits all possible protocols, but I question that idea since it would drain the battery quicker/sooner :  more transmissions = less battery life.

I think I may give  the AUTEL tech line another call to verify that.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on November 21, 2022, 10:23:55 AM
Just want to put it out there again, if anyone has a newer model sensor, I'd love to borrow it to try to ping it.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on November 21, 2022, 11:41:07 AM
Is there anyone local to you that could ride their bike over to get pinged?
You don't need it removed from the rim do you?

Just want to put it out there again, if anyone has a newer model sensor, I'd love to borrow it to try to ping it.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on November 21, 2022, 01:04:19 PM
No, I don't need the sensor removed, but I would have to know someone who had one. Not much of a social rider, so I don't know any newer gen C14 guys. Heck, I only sorta know one other older gen guy.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: SVonhof on November 21, 2022, 03:27:11 PM
No, I don't need the sensor removed, but I would have to know someone who had one. Not much of a social rider, so I don't know any newer gen C14 guys. Heck, I only sorta know one other older gen guy.

Post up where you are located again and maybe somebody reading will know somebody local to you.

Heck, when this thread started, I was in central California and am now in Pinehurst, NC.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on November 21, 2022, 04:12:56 PM
Phoenix, East Valley
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Freddy on November 21, 2022, 04:36:31 PM
STC said: My bet is the protocol used is decided by LDL , not the various manufactures (make) that they supply to.

Only the early version of Kaw TPMS sensors were made by LDL as we know - the ones with fairly easily replaceable batteries. 
A few years ago I 'played with' a couple different LDL sensor for non-Kaw bikes using 433MHz.  I have KDS and entered the ID number into KIPASS - they did not work.  I contacted LDL in France to ask why.  They graciously replied by saying that the 'baud rate' - (the rate at which information is transferred in a communication channel) is different. 
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: STC14JIM on November 23, 2022, 07:44:18 AM
Freddy :  Do you know who makes the newer ( potted ) sensors ?

And do you mean the 433 MHz sensors wouldn't work in a late model C-14 or and early model C-14 ?  I would think the later model sensors would also operate on 315 MHz so a different immobilzer/TPMS module wouldn't be required.  If so, I'm not surprised the 433 MHz sensors wouldn't work.  But I don't think it has anything to do with the "baud rate".
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on November 23, 2022, 11:17:18 AM
The new sensors are 315MHz sensors too so there is no 433 MHz issue. Otherwise any old sensor bike would be out of luck for replacement or the KIPASS ECU would need replaced to accomodate the 433 MHz sensors.

2010 model year:
SENSOR,TPMS 315MHZ
21176-0125
Kawasaki
Currently Unavailable.

2020 model year:
Kawasaki
SENSOR,TPMS 315MHZ
Item #: 21176-0748
$198.48
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Freddy on November 23, 2022, 05:07:27 PM
315 sensors are used in C14 bikes only in North America - rest of world has 433.  I don't live in North America, hence I 'play with' 433 sensors.  Schrader make the 'new' 433 sensors.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on November 23, 2022, 06:12:32 PM
What are those part numbers?
I was addressing old 315 to new 315, interesting Kawasaki would not standardize wirldwide.

315 sensors are used in C14 bikes only in North America - rest of world has 433.  I don't live in North America, hence I 'play with' 433 sensors.  Schrader make the 'new' 433 sensors.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Freddy on November 23, 2022, 07:28:17 PM
LDL version:

Part Number
21176-0724
Description
SENSOR,TPMS 434MHZ
Price $A352.35


Schrader version:

Part Number
21176-0746
Description
SENSOR,TPMS 434MHZ
Price $A335.80


If the manufacturer says their sensors won't work in other makes of bike even tho frequency is the same and says why, I believe em.   :chugbeer:
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on November 24, 2022, 08:43:27 AM
Thanks Freddy!
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: deepseamdv on November 24, 2022, 07:23:48 PM
It wasn’t up to Kawasaki, radio frequency is dictated by Government.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Freddy on November 24, 2022, 08:43:43 PM
Yes.

433.92MHz to be precise for rest of world. 
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: STC14JIM on November 25, 2022, 07:44:53 AM
Phoenix, East Valley

BigRed :

A guy ( T800XC ) on the Triumph Trophy Forum has got the MX sensor to work on his Triumph but he said the stem diameter of the MX sensor is different than the Triumph stem diameter.

Is this an issue on the Concours ??
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: STC14JIM on November 25, 2022, 11:37:17 AM
STC14Jim,
When you talk to Autel see if there is a limit on how many programming changes the MX sensor can support.
SNIP ........

A guy on the Triumph Trophy Forum ( T800XC ) has progrmmed a MX sensor many times w/o any problems - so apparently that's not an issue.

https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/tpms-radio-frequency-theory-and-operation/

"The majority of TPMS sensors are activated with a low-frequency signal (125 kHz) coming from a TPMS tool. This radio signal varies from vehicle to vehicle (some require more power than others) and forces the sensor to transmit. This signal excites the antenna coil in the sensor."

BTW, The short coil inside the sensor is used to transmit the 315 or 433 MHz.   The 125 KHz receiver just uses a tank circuit to tune to that frequency.  At that lower frequency ( wavelength is about 2,400 meters ) an antenna isn't practical.  The signal strength is high enough at 125 KHz for a tank circuit to work just fine.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: dbird29 on November 25, 2022, 11:53:13 AM
Yep an antenna for 125Mhz would be kind of hard to package in the sensor as the wavelength is over 2 km.
Also you wouldn't want an etire garge of vehicles to respond to the inquiry signal for the TPMS. :-) so a tank circuit is sensitive enough.

I'm just happy that Freddy and Big Red have found an answer to dead sensors that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars and a dealer trip.
Easily available too.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: STC14JIM on November 25, 2022, 03:19:20 PM

+1 for sure !!
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on November 25, 2022, 06:23:06 PM
BigRed :

A guy ( T800XC ) on the Triumph Trophy Forum has got the MX sensor to work on his Triumph but he said the stem diameter of the MX sensor is different than the Triumph stem diameter.

Is this an issue on the Concours ??

The metal stem MX sensor fits perfect.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: STC14JIM on November 26, 2022, 07:06:29 AM
That's very good to know - thanks for your reply.

Just saw on the Trophy Forum T800XC is going to fit a AUTEL MX sensor to a Triumph rim today and test the sensor on the bike.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: kzz1king on January 05, 2023, 05:10:38 PM
This is the id I got using this tool. I had to choose a vehicle so I chose the Mazd ::)a 3. This is the old style. I could not get a read on the front.. i tried warming up the tire thinking the battery may be low but could get nothing. The front is the later style. Not sure if I have learned anything
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: kzz1king on January 05, 2023, 09:34:50 PM
This is the number on the sensor
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on January 06, 2023, 07:50:36 AM
KZZ, so you're reading the sensor you took the pic of and it's transmitting a different ID code?
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: kzz1king on January 06, 2023, 09:18:01 AM
Yes. I tried to read it again later, twice. I got the pressure but no temp or id.
At this point I am going to have a autel sensor on hand when I pull the front wheel for a tire change this spring and Hope I can
Pull a number from it.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on January 06, 2023, 11:35:02 AM
The 315mHz ID is supposed to be the one that is programmed into the bike. I just went back and checked mine to verify. I would try the code on the sticker first, then if that doesn't work, try the one you pulled with the scanner second. Upside is they're reprogrammable, so nothing really lost.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: kzz1king on January 06, 2023, 07:42:22 PM
Yep, thats my plan. The one with the sticker is the old sstule sothat one is good. The front one is the new style so I hope I can get a number off it. Wished I would have looked at it before. .Thanks
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: kzz1king on January 07, 2023, 05:03:24 PM
Mystery solved! The old sensor was in the front, so the id I had a pic of was for the front not the rear. My reading may be correct!
I pulled the tire to the side and removed the front today. Installed a new battery and tested it with the twirling method. Autel is on the way. Plan is to program it to the front and then test. If it works I will have a backup.  Sorry for the confusion and thanks for all the help.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on January 09, 2023, 12:07:56 PM
Awesome. Hope it works well.
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: kzz1king on January 10, 2023, 08:36:41 AM
Keep you posted Red. Thanks
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: kzz1king on January 19, 2023, 07:17:45 PM
I put a new battery in the sensor. I could ping it and read it but I could not copy it to the Autel sensor. Took the machine home and updated it (my buddy said he has had it for awhile). Reread the stock sensor and copied to the new in a minute or two! It was so fun I rewrote it to the rear sensor. Not able to ride yet but I think I will be good to go.
I didnt realize that you dont need the bike on or even be neat it to ping it. This means if you have your sensors out and know someone in a tie shop you could just stop by with the old and new and get them programed.
Wayne
Title: Re: Mazda 3 TPMS on my Concours
Post by: Big Red on January 22, 2023, 04:30:03 PM
Awesome. Glad it worked out!