Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: voileauciel on February 01, 2012, 09:33:27 PM
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Ok, so this is something I've only noticed recently, and I think I may be over-thinking this completely, but I've noticed that at low speed, say 25mph or so, if I zig-zag very quickly with the clutch pulled in, I get a feeling from the back end like a thump-clip-clip-pat-pat-pat-pat, almost like I'm doing this on knobbies.
Rear shock was replaced not too long ago with the Progressive. Rear tyre is an Avon Azzaro. I'm thinking it's the treads that are making that feeling, as I've had the wheel bearings checked, and they're fine, as are the swingarm bearings. I did also notice that if I rock the back wheel forward and backward a little, it makes a thunk-thunk sound. Last time the gear oil was changed was about 7500 miles ago, and I change it every 10k miles with Mobil-1 synthetic 80-90wt. Could it be that it's just the treads doing this? I don't remember it feeling like that when I had the Dunlops or the Pirellis on it. Bike has just over 63k on the clock now.
Also, for as long as I've had this, that thunk noise has been present in the rear wheel if I rock it back and forth, so not sure if this is normal or not...
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What mileage on the Azaro?
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Patient: So Doc when I do this it hurts?
Doctor: Well don't do that anymore and it will not hurt. Please pay the Receptionist on your way out.
The clunk sounds like drive line slack an is normal.
The pat pat sound is likely the tire tread now that it is worn.
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It is possible to have the front "U" joint failing. They do not fail often, but it is not heard of. Since the sensations change when pulling in the clutch and unloading the drive train, this could be a place to check.
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It is possible to have the front "U" joint failing. They do not fail often, but it is not heard of. Since the sensations change when pulling in the clutch and unloading the drive train, this could be a place to check.
Or drive splines in the wheel getting worn out?
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Or drive splines in the wheel getting worn out?
A big plus 1 on the drive splines on the hub. 63k is more then enough miles to cause it. Many on here have had to replace the hub spline, mine went S @ 70k.
It is an easy check, but trust me, you must remove the hub from the wheel to do a good look see. Trying to look at it while on only lets you see the outside edge, and it is the inner guts that wears out.
See pics below for reference. Hope this helps.
Ride safe all.
Greg
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HEY you're toothless. :-\
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HEY you're toothless. :-\
"WAS" toothless, now I have all my choppers.
RSA,
Greg
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I've been having the same issues that you described for a while. It started about 4k miles ago before I changed the rear tire from a Dunlop to Azaro so I don't think it was the tire. Last winter I had to repair the bevel-drive gasket and had a chance to inspect/service everything from there back and found nothing obvious other than a very, very slight notchiness in the u-joint.
I made note of it then buttoned everything up. Symptoms as you describe is still there. I'm going to re-assess the u-joint
and go from there. Hope this is helpful.
I can use some advice on the repair of the existing joint or replacement source. Thanks.
-Rich
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I can use some advice on the repair of the existing joint or replacement source. Thanks.
-Rich
I believe both stateside and overseas, extensive research was accomplished to find a replacement aftermarket u-joint. None could be found, it appears it is proprietary to Kawi.
So servicing the u-joint is very minimal, if damaged, either a good used one or a new one from Kawi are the options for replacement.
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Don't think I've ever heard of a u-joint going bad on a Concours. They usually last forever. I suppose if the rubber boot protecting the u-joint went bad and allowed dirt in the joint it might go bad.
The slip joint near the final drive could cause problems if not lubed on occasion.
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If we ever get some bad weather here in Ohio, I'm going to breakdown the rear end just because. Lube what needs lubed, adjust what needs adjustment, and inspect my now 11 yr. old baby.
Maybe a shock re-build is in the future also. And definatly a new rear skin.
Around here, Winter, at least when it hits, is TLC time.
Ride safer all.
Greg
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Been having the same "problem" with the weather hear in Jersey. Lotsa nice riding days this winter and road aren't covered with salt and grit. Gunna go out Sunday (mostly sunny, 40 deg.) for a ride while everyone else is preoccupied with football. One of the best riding days of the year. I'll attack the u-joint issue when the next snowstorm comes.
Rich
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>>>SNIP<<< but I've noticed that at low speed, say 25mph or so, if I zig-zag very quickly with the clutch pulled in, I get a feeling from the back end like a thump-clip-clip-pat-pat-pat-pat, almost like I'm doing this on knobbies.
Rear tyre is an Avon Azzaro. I'm thinking it's the treads that are making that feeling, as I've had the wheel bearings checked, and they're fine, as are the swingarm bearings.
How many miles is on the rear Avon, & is it cupped? This will give you that "riding on the knobbies" feeling. Just re-profile the tire w/ a wood rasp or electric sander. The other option would be a trip to the nearest twisty road section which would allow you to scrub off the high spots.
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Thanks for all the input!
Rear tyre has about 1800 miles on it. No cupping that I can see. Checked the boot, that looks good. Pulled the rear wheel and just had a look at the teeth, and from what I can see, they're worn, but only slightly. The teeth definitely look better than what I've seen in some other photos on the subject. May have to take a pic and see what you all think. I did, however, fiddle with something else: tyre pressure. At 42psi on the rear, I get that feeling. At 39/40, it goes away.
Best I can figure is it's the treads making the noise/feeling. :chugbeer:
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So, it seems that the rear tyre is indeed cupped. Having only ever seen cupping on the Dunlops, I didn't really know what to look for on the Avon Azaro. I ran my fingers along it and it's definitely not perfectly round anymore. I've also noticed now that the whole bike feels nervous at speed, straight or going round corners. Fiddled with the damping on the Progressive rear shock to see if that was the issue, made no real difference if it was at a 3, 4, or 5. All the fasteners are tight, and there's no wiggle or looseness to the swingarm.
Anyone ever see cupping on an Azaro rear before? I thought these were supposed to be the best tyres going. I only have about 3000 miles on both the tyre and the shock, so I don't think either could be totally faulty...could they?
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Yes the Azaro on my bike did cup around 4k but only a little bit and did not upset the bike any,
however im now on a Shinko 777 with over 8k on it and a front AM26 roadrider with over 15k and now my bike wants to go into a tank slapper on deceleration around 40mph, but that's only if i'm trying to look cool and ride with no hand, i no longer care about looking cool and long as my hands are on the bars its fine, i'm sure its the front tire causing this and it is slightly cupped and the rear even feels slightly cupped as well but there is still lots of miles left on both tires so im gonna ride it till it gets to the wear bars then change them like i always do.
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Is it definately cupping as you describe it or the tyre starting to square off? Never known a rear to cup in all the years I've run the Azaro rear but IMO squaring off can give you the same feeling.
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Is it definately cupping as you describe it or the tyre starting to square off? Never known a rear to cup in all the years I've run the Azaro rear but IMO squaring off can give you the same feeling.
Does seem to be squaring a little. I just noticed that if I run my hand over it, it feels like the treads are higher in the front of the tread than the back of its antecedent. Hope that makes sense. It's like it's not smooth all the way around.
What kind of life can I expect from an Azaro? I'm about 360lbs with all my gear on, so I'd not be surprised at all if I'm wearing tyres out faster.
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I'm about 260 and my Azaro had 5,730 miles on it when i changed it, i could have went another 250-500 or so but i like to change tires once they down down close to the wear bars. just keep an eye on the wear bumps in the center of the tire, i also remember mine did cup kind of square but the shinko 777 i have now is seems to be cupping more roundish. you probably can expect about 5 to 6k on the azaro. try the 777 next time around and i think you will be happy with it, i sure am. but i guess it depends on the rider and bike and riding style.
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You also need to remember that if it feels like it's the rear then check the front, and vice-versa.
I'm willing to bet on the front wheel bearings being shot, especially if it's a 94-06 model.
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You also need to remember that if it feels like it's the rear then check the front, and vice-versa.
I'm willing to bet on the front wheel bearings being shot, especially if it's a 94-06 model.
Ah, never thought of that. According to my maintenance record, front wheel bearings were replaced at 39k. Bike now has 63.5k on it. What you think, could they be on their way out? Same thing goes for the rears, but those have never been replaced.
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I'm 365lbs and I used to get about 6,000 miles out of an Azaro rear.
Haven't ridden my C10 in 2 years though. :(
The front wheel bearings in 94-06 C10s are good for 25-30k miles.
On the 86-93 they last 50-60k miles.
I always replaced my rear wheel bearings at 60k but the ones I pulled were always OK.
Unfortunately Kawasaki used similar bearings to the 94-06 in the C14 so I still get to do frequent bearing swaps.
Why they feel the need to use piddly little wheel bearings I have no idea.
Ok it may reduce unsprung weight slightly but the C14 is a SportTour bike, not a ZX14.
Didja check the bearings? Easy enough to do when she's on the centrestand.
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Getting worse now. If I go low speed, say ~20mph, clutch pulled in, and weave left and right, I can feel a gritty, almost grindy feeling from the rear wheel. It's worse going left than right. Must be the bearings. Haven't been able to pull the rear wheel, because I can't find the sockets to get the castle nut off. Will have to go visit my tyre guy and have him take a look.
I also checked the other copy of the maintenance record, and it seems that the rear wheel bearings were never replaced. Considering I bought these wheels to replace the originals, and IIRC, the replacement rear had ~20k on it, that would put its total mileage around 60k now, so probably time to replace it.
Anyone in the central Jersey area want to ride this, and see what I mean? It's hard to describe it in words. All I know is, one day everything was fine, I didn't ride it for 2 weeks, got back on and it's been riding poorly every since. I've also noticed that the rear just feels nervous, and even at high speed, the Cadillac ride I'd finally gotten from the new shock and Avons had gone away, back to how it felt with a busted rear shock and worn out Dunlops...could wheel bearings cause this?
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This won't break the bank..
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_98&products_id=42 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_98&products_id=42)
Order them with the seals. You need them, hell, you got 60k out of the OEMS!
And hurry up with this, we got some riding to do!
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voileauciel,
As I stated earlier in this thread, I am having the same problem that you describe. I had replaced the rear bearings as well as inspected/serviced all of the suspension components, swingarm bearings, switched the Hagon shock with the stocker, checked all frame bolts, etc. and the problem persists. I can feel it most throught the left footpeg. When I get the chance, I will be replacing all of the lower link bearings with bushings and see what happens. This problem started before I mounted a new Avon on the back. It's almost worn-out and cupped and needs replacement soon. Nothing unusual in the wear. I think next I'll take a closer look at the final drive components as it feels consistent with meshing. Maybe something is worn to the point of causing and axial alignment problem between the wheel and final drive causing wheel/drive contact or an incorrect meshing under certain suspension load conditions.
BTW I live north of you in Sussex county. Maybe we'll pass each other some day.
-Rich
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This won't break the bank..
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_98&products_id=42 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_98&products_id=42)
Order them with the seals. You need them, hell, you got 60k out of the OEMS!
And hurry up with this, we got some riding to do!
Got 'em on order, should be here in a few days. Also ordered a set of new tyres so I'll be ready for the National. I'm going to ride out to Arkansas, the longest trip I'll have done on this bike yet.
@Toxz: how many miles on yours?
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a measly 24,xxx miles
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Bearings are in. Now just waiting on the tyres.
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The castle nut is 27mm or Inch and one sixteenth in Imperial.
Enjoy!
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It was a combination of worn out wheel bearings and lumpy Avons. Literally, the treads were all over the place. Best I can tell, it looks like it shifted a belt. One side of the tread was considerably higher than the other, almost like it was going out of round.
That will be the last set of those for me, kthnxbai to Avon, hello Bridgestone!
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And I thought the Avons were bad!
These BT-45s are rubbish. Track poorly on grooved pavement, slip horrendously on tar snakes and just don't give me any confidence at all.
So where does this leave me? OEM Dunlops worked well for me, but I will concede that the Storm/Azaro combination gripped the best.
How about the Roadrider? Any good? I want a good set of tyres for the National, and these Bridgestones ain't it.