Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: RedRambler on December 04, 2015, 03:31:39 PM
-
Has anyone purchased one of the TPMS sensors listed on EBay for $30? I just wondered if it came with an ID number sticker on it. I bought one and it appears to be brand new just as advertised, but it does not have an ID number with it. Seller cannot or will not provide one, and it costs about $30 to ship it back to China, so I'm holding on to it for now.
RR
-
I think they operate on a different frequency than our oem sensors.
-
I have one from Kawasaki and this cheap one. So I have them both, and they appear to be identical, even have the exact same stickers. Both are marked 315MHz...
-
You should probably provide a sample link.
Sounds kinda sketchy to me. Chinese companies are known for reverse engineering all kinds of stuff, but it can be really hit-or-miss. Without an ID number, you are screwed, anyway.... well, unless you want to follow this thread: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20213.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20213.0) and hope it develops more.
If you have an old-style sensor with just a dead battery, it is covered under primary or extended warranty... but they will replace it with one that CANNOT have the battery replaced (it is potted). Or you can replace the battery in the old-style one for a LOT less effort than pursuing the China thing. Just a thought.
-
Or you can replace the battery in the old-style one for a LOT less effort than pursuing the China thing. Just a thought.
Yup, that is what I plan to do next spring when I change tires. Change the batteries in the TPMS sensors.
Waiting to buy the batteries until next Spring hoping they will be newer then if I bought them now and hung on to them until Spring.
My bike will be 5 years old next year and I have seen the low battery warning come on when starting out especially if I haven't ridden
it for a few days, but after a few miles it has always come back to normal and shows the pressure. I know it won't keep doing this forever,
hence my plan to change them next year.
-
Here is a Link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPMS-Tire-Pressure-Monitor-Sensor-315-MHZ-for-Kawasaki-Concours-21176-0748-/252069950025 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPMS-Tire-Pressure-Monitor-Sensor-315-MHZ-for-Kawasaki-Concours-21176-0748-/252069950025)
Note the pictures do not show an ID sticker.
RR
-
I just sent the seller a question if they supply the id code
-
Here is a Link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPMS-Tire-Pressure-Monitor-Sensor-315-MHZ-for-Kawasaki-Concours-21176-0748-/252069950025 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPMS-Tire-Pressure-Monitor-Sensor-315-MHZ-for-Kawasaki-Concours-21176-0748-/252069950025)
Note the pictures do not show an ID sticker.
Examining the photos closely, to me, it looks like pull. A pull is a used piece of equipment. It might be good, it might be bad. Might be they replaced the battery in a disposed unit. This would also explain why they have no ID.
-
looks different than my old style....
this was borrowed from the other forum ( thanks )
compare the stem to the picture on ebay
old style in hand
ebay pic may be the new style?
-
looks different than my old style.... this was borrowed from the other forum ( thanks )
compare the stem to the picture on ebay old style in hand. ebay pic may be the new style?
Indeed it does look very different. And not just the stem. All three have different stems, though... so the Ebay one can't be just the new model, either. This lends credibility to the idea of a knockoff (which doesn't explain why the one on Ebay clearly looks "used"). Unless there is a third style out there we don't know about?
Also, here is the same thing on "aliexpress" (direct purchase china stuff) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Monitor-Tire-Pressure-Sensor-315-MHZ-Sensor-for-Kawasaki-Concours-21176-0748-211760748/32460744960.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Monitor-Tire-Pressure-Sensor-315-MHZ-Sensor-for-Kawasaki-Concours-21176-0748-211760748/32460744960.html) with identical photos.
-
Max it looks like a long shaft hex nut on the new style which would cover most of the stem on the ebay pic. Have to look up the new nut on the parts fiche since they are sold separately.
-
Definitely different, but no id no workee.
-
The difference appears to be in the product (part) number.
Looking it up at my dealers site it has a part # of 21176-0125 and is labeled as discontinued.
The eBay listing shows a part number of 21176-0748 so not exactly the same.
I would be very leery of them working - so probably would not risk it as the eBay listing says not returnable if you ordered the wrong part ........etc.
-
Here are pics of the two sensors side by side. The one of the left is the $30 part from Ebay. The one on the right is a factory part from Kawasaki. Both appear to be identical and have the same part numbers stamped on the case: 21178-0748.
I'm convinced the one I got from China is authentic and brand new, but I'm still not convinced it's useable. I have read that manufacturers can put these devices in a sleep mode for storage (to save battery), and then activate them with a tool when they are ready to be used. The Kawasaki distributor could be activating them before sending to the dealer, as well as affixing the ID label.
I've tried to get it to transmit by spinning it in a variety of ways, but no luck so far. I will try again when its time to replace my tire. I know how to capture the ID number on the CAN bus if I can just get it to transmit.
RR
-
I've tried to get it to transmit by spinning it in a variety of ways, but no luck so far.
It seems that it takes longer than one would think it should to transmit. When I've tested my battery replacements (on the older model of course) on the wheel balancer it usually takes two minutes of spinning for it to show up on the dash with a pressure. I'm sure I've heard that it can be swung around on a string or cord, but I'm not sure how long folks are spinning them that way before they get results.
I've always assumed that they went into "sleep mode" when ever they were not spinning.
Are you sure those aren't the ID numbers above the bar codes? Granted they are longer numbers than the old ones were but just maybe that's them.
My older style TPMS the bar code matches the ID number, makes sense that the new style would too even if its a different format. I've not heard of any TPMS units that didn't have the ID number on the unit, unlike passive FOBs which reportedly only have it on the outer baggie.
There is also another possibility, when you strip the leading 5200 off of the bar code numbers and convert the remainder to hex, you get the same 8 digit format that are on my old style sensors. ...yeah, I guess that's a stretch. :-\
Regardless, keep up the good work there Red'.
-
Have you tried taping it to a bicycle rim and spinning it?
-
I got a reply from the ebay seller, They said that the "code" comes with them to program into the ecu. They said they are currently out of stock but more are on the way. I might have to get one to try since I have a kds system,
-
This is getting interesting..
-
Yes, I did try exactly that: I taped it with electrical tape to a bicycle rim and spun it with the pedal to a sufficient speed that it should have transmitted something. While it was spinning I was monitoring the CAN bus for the sensor message. If you put the bike on the center stand and turn the tire with the engine, the rear sensor will almost immediately transmit, and it transmits several times before anything is displayed on the dash.
But I could not get anything out of either the Kawi sensor or the cheap one from Ebay using this approach. It led me to believe that the sensor needed pressure in order to transmit. Maybe I was just not holding my mouth right.
RR
-
The first, second and third generation C-14 TPS sensors will transmit w/out any tire pressure. Every year I solder in a bunch of batteries into these sensors for other folks and typically test the front sensors by swinging the sensor on the end of a string..... it transmits to the bike, reads normally, and instantly trips the 'Low tire pressure' warning 'cause the pressure is less than 32 PSI (it actually reads -0- on every single one I have tested).
Brian
Yes, I did try exactly that: I taped it with electrical tape to a bicycle rim and spun it with the pedal to a sufficient speed that it should have transmitted something. While it was spinning I was monitoring the CAN bus for the sensor message. If you put the bike on the center stand and turn the tire with the engine, the rear sensor will almost immediately transmit, and it transmits several times before anything is displayed on the dash.
But I could not get anything out of either the Kawi sensor or the cheap one from Ebay using this approach. It led me to believe that the sensor needed pressure in order to transmit. Maybe I was just not holding my mouth right.
RR
-
Sounds like you might need to change the battery in the new sensor.
-
Battery is the answer to most issues with this bike.
-
I got a reply from the ebay seller, They said that the "code" comes with them to program into the ecu. They said they are currently out of stock but more are on the way. I might have to get one to try since I have a kds system,
I bought a $15 unit off ebay. Brand new and includes the kawasaki labels and all... except for the activation code. It is a perfect match otherwise. I emailed the seller with my dissatisfaction. For $15 i have in this I am willing to exchange. Even if I have to pay the shipping back. The part is 100% new. I cannot confirm it is functional though. The deck is still stacked for me to lose.
At $15 though I will note that unlike the sensor I bought fom the dealer for $210, this one at least included the valve stem nut. That alone was $12 and not included with the kawasaki part. So I did not gain anything yet, but I have not lost anything. My $210 sensor from the dealer did not include the nut so I did nead that piece at least. Will see how it goes from here.
I need to replace both sensors. Even if I get past the parts aquisition challenge and cost, I still need to sync the sensors to my 2008 connie. Dealer wants $132 flat rate to use the KDS software to do that. I was going to install the sensors myself and give them the codes needed. It can't take more than 10 minutes even if you count time needed to boot up the laptop!!!
This is the most sophisticated bike I have ever owned. Not entirely happy with what that brings..
Will keep everyone posted. Hopefully china replies to my email.
-
I bought a $15 unit off ebay. Brand new and includes the kawasaki labels and all... except for the activation code. [...] I still need to sync the sensors to my 2008 connie. Dealer wants $132 flat rate to use the KDS software to do that.
If I remember correctly, without the codes, it is "impossible" to use the sensors, period. The codes must be keyed into KDS.
-
Would the bar codes with numbers in the lower picture be the ID codes needed?
-
I don't think so as they are both the same number. The id on the original TPS sensor is an 8 digit Hexadecimal number. I would think that number would be unique to the sensor but I could wrong. If the numbers are the same then I don't know how it would differentiate (word of the day) from one wheel or another.
Top of page 22...on the KDS manual. (Believe to be looking at the original sensor)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21909.msg272282#msg272282 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21909.msg272282#msg272282)
There's also this from FartyMarty..
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20518.msg254693#msg254693 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20518.msg254693#msg254693)
-
I don't think so as they are both the same number. The id on the original TPS sensor is an 8 digit Hexadecimal number.
Jim, if you zoom in on the bar codes in the lower picture you can see that both of them start with 5200, but all the numbers after that are different.
-
Jim, if you zoom in on the bar codes in the lower picture you can see that both of them start with 5200, but all the numbers after that are different.
True, but it still isn't hexadecimal...
One could derive a hex equivalent from the decimal number, but that would normally require 16 digits and that barcode is only 14. I suspect it might be a serial number or date code with or without an embedded model number/part number.
-
Did you read Fartymarty's post?
-
I do not think it is a hexadecimal number but rather just a plain 'ole 0-9 number. I say this because I have re- batteried quite a few of them, often writing the numbers down 'cause I am going both at once (front / rear) and have never clanked into anything with an A thru F in it. ??
Brian
I don't think so as they are both the same number. The id on the original TPS sensor is an 8 digit Hexadecimal number. I would think that number would be unique to the sensor but I could wrong. If the numbers are the same then I don't know how it would differentiate (word of the day) from one wheel or another.
Top of page 22...on the KDS manual. (Believe to be looking at the original sensor)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21909.msg272282#msg272282 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21909.msg272282#msg272282)
There's also this from FartyMarty..
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20518.msg254693#msg254693 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20518.msg254693#msg254693)
-
Well this is all as clear a mud...
-
A quasi- KiPass thread: overall, I think it is going pretty well as these things usually fall down an entire flight of stairs before the second page....
An older TPS with both stickers (inner and outer) intact. There are four numbers, and I believe the third is the identifier for the KiPass ECU. Unless of course it is the number in the second line, which given those 'F''s would certainly mean it was hexadecimal 'cause there are very few letters in the decimal system.
Brian
Well this is all as clear a mud...
-
I'm thinking it's the number on the second line with the 'F's.
-
But what tires should I use with the new style sensors? I hear that Bridgestone are really the best.
-
Slowly I turn...
-
Bridgestone makes sensors?
-
In that they may sense the road......yes.
http://www.bridgestone.com/technology_innovation/cais/ (http://www.bridgestone.com/technology_innovation/cais/)
-
That's good cause they sure can't make tires for the c14.
-
On this we agree...
-
I bought a $15 unit off ebay. Brand new and includes the kawasaki labels and all... except for the activation code. It is a perfect match otherwise. I emailed the seller with my dissatisfaction. For $15 i have in this I am willing to exchange. Even if I have to pay the shipping back. The part is 100% new. I cannot confirm it is functional though. The deck is still stacked for me to lose.
Here is the response from the seller after sharing the problem with them:
--
We do understand your concerns. After checking with the supplier, you need to go to the professtional shop to use the tools to read the code. Would you please have a try later?
However, according to our returns policy, you have to send back the item for exchange or full refund. Considering that it will cost a lot of money and time for you to return it, we would like to resolve the problem quickly and more efficiently. How about we partial refund 6USD to you directly without you returning anything? Please let us know if this will be ok with you.
We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience caused.
--
So the solution to take the tpms to the shop is not going to work as yall probably clearly understand at this point. With the modest $6 they offer I'm not out any money as I needed to he valve stem nut. It just doesn't solve the need for a working TPMS for a reasonable price. Still begs the question of
1. how to deetermine the code needed to program these things if you don't have it
2. If you have it, are the parts being sold good useable parts or non functional blemms.
-
These are pics of the cover on my 2010 TPS. It has the ID printed on it. This is the old style sensor which I changed the batteries in.
Also when checking the sensors. I did as Brian had suggested with a piece of string. The only caution is that the sensor has to rotate in the same axis as if it were in the wheel. The sensor only senses direction in one plane. They both came up with 0 PSI as expected. Hope this helps
-
So I have a bad TPS on my 08 and two good ones on my 09 which is out of commission. Am I reading this thread correctly that the KDS 3 machine can read the code needed for programming and/or that one of the numbers on the case sticker is the code? Do we have a consensus which of the numbers?
-
No, the software (KDS) cannot read the numbers; you must type the numbers into the software to have the bike recognize the sensor.
The sensor has the correct number on both the outside as well as the inside of each sensor; should the outside label get dirty or fall off, open the sensor and read the number off the label that is attached to the circuit board itself.
No, no consensus on exactly which number it is. Even worse, no one seems to know (I would take actual knowledge over a consensus anytime.... ). But there are only four numbers in total, so how long could it take to figure out which one is correct? ;) ;D
Brian
So I have a bad TPS on my 08 and two good ones on my 09 which is out of commission. Am I reading this thread correctly that the KDS 3 machine can read the code needed for programming and/or that one of the numbers on the case sticker is the code? Do we have a consensus which of the numbers?
-
No, the software (KDS) cannot read the numbers; you must type the numbers into the software to have the bike recognize the sensor.
The sensor has the correct number on both the outside as well as the inside of each sensor; should the outside label get dirty or fall off, open the sensor and read the number off the label that is attached to the circuit board itself.
No, no consensus on exactly which number it is. Even worse, no one seems to know (I would take actual knowledge over a consensus anytime.... ). But there are only four numbers in total, so how long could it take to figure out which one is correct? ;) ;D
Brian
I don't always get the answer I want but I always get a chuckle. :finger_fing11:
-
I don't always get the answer I want but I always get a chuckle. :finger_fing11:
LOL
-
Nobody ever gets the answer he / she wants. I went to the eye doctor Wednesday, expecting an new close- vision script [that I had no intention of buying..... again] and was diagnosed with macular degeneration. Hmmmmmm. No treatment, no confirmed, known causes, although smoking is highly suspect. Well, I quit smoking somewhere around 2009 or so and have decided to quit smoking yet again. If the situation does not stabilize, I will quit yet a third time! No holds barred in the fight against blindness!!! Also, had fish and chips tonight, a suspected helpful dietary supplement for th condition.
All in good humor- I do not expect to go blind. Do not let that act where I put my hands out at 'breast height' to meet new people fool you; I am grading the quality / quantity of the implants I may run into.
ROFLMAO
Brian
I don't always get the answer I want but I always get a chuckle. :finger_fing11:
-
Nobody ever gets the answer he / she wants. I went to the eye doctor Wednesday, expecting an new close- vision script [that I had no intention of buying..... again] and was diagnosed with macular degeneration. Hmmmmmm. No treatment, no confirmed, known causes, although smoking is highly suspect. Well, I quit smoking somewhere around 2009 or so and have decided to quit smoking yet again. If the situation does not stabilize, I will quit yet a third time! No holds barred in the fight against blindness!!! Also, had fish and chips tonight, a suspected helpful dietary supplement for th condition.
All in good humor- I do not expect to go blind. Do not let that act where I put my hands out at 'breast height' to meet new people fool you; I am grading the quality / quantity of the implants I may run into.
ROFLMAO
Brian
Best of luck with the AMD and the implant grading as well. ;)