What makes me crazy and annoyed..

[mikeyw64]

Also, some carriers will give you "unlimited" data for the phone and limited data for tethering.  That is still a different situation.

Although they can only split out you are tethering if they have control of your phone (point about them operating differently in the US noted)


Over here phones taken on contract with a carrier are typically network locked to that carrier (can be unlocked at end of contract or for a small fee) and although some do do customisations to the OS it's generally non intrusive.

As for me I usually buy my phone network unlocked outright although my current phone (a Motorola G4 plus)
was supplied by work and I've only started using it as it's Dual Sim (I've temporarily retired my WileyFox dual Sim). Previously they supplied Crackberries

[mikeyw64]

on a side note my personal SIM is on a Unlimited Date, Voice (UK landline & mobile)  & Texts (subject to a very large fair usage policy on all 3) package for £12 per month (Discounted from £24 as I work for the carrier) .

It (the package) was only on offer for less than a week as our mobile sales team realised the error they had made and wondered why there was a huge uptake on it

Ok so its only 3G but I'd be daft to swap it.


My works SIM is 4G and other than calls to certain numbers (which I can claim back if I need too) is free to me including any data usage however I can't use it outside the UK (my personal SIM I can and with recent changes I can now use the full data allowance etc throughout Europe, previously I had to get a roaming bolt on for that) 

[B.D.F.]

Well, back to the simple version: smartphone, unlimited data (per the purchased plan) and tying it to a computer.

If one has an Iphone, with a contract with, say, Verizon for unlimited data service, cannot that phone be connected to anything via WiFi, and one of those, or the only device, be a computer and so.... a cellular 'Net connection? With unlimited data, for a <reasonable> monthly fee?

And if so, how would the bandwidth of the cellular link be regarding speed? I realize this is a very variable situation, depending on where the cell phone is, how many others are using it and so forth but again, would this provide a viable system for high- speed (compared with dial- up here, not the 300 MBps I have with a wire from the dreaded COX of course) for those who cannot or will not get hard- line, connected, 'Net service?

And if not, what would be the failure point (given the conditions I already listed: unlimited data plan and one computer)?

My wife has a cellular data link (I do not know the correct term) that is just that- a data link, that connects to a computer via USB; she is required to have it with her for work due to regulatory agencies.... long story. It works OK, ranging from reasonable to terrible but never great, and the data is absolutely NOT unlimited but sold in blocks ,and fairly expensive. It would be prohibitively expensive for anyone who uses a computer a fair amount every day. So I know they are available and not viable but again, I am talking about a package that is meant to be used with a smart phone, not a generic digital link.

Brian

Ballcocks, you can tether any device to any phone if you know how.

Unless the situation is very different in the US your carrier cant physically stop you doing it. A lot of the mobile/cell carriers over here (including my own) say the same thing and they dont like it but I tether my GPS via BT and on occasion if Im out and about my iPad via a WiFi tether.


The biggest issue is running out of data allowance


That said I've got a dual sim phone running 2 SIMs from different carriers and I swap my Datat between my work & personal SIMs

[mikeyw64]

Possibly the easiest way to answer that is.


From time to time (especially If I'm out & abut but technically working)  I set my phone up as a wifi hotspot and connect my works laptop up to it then access the company systems via VPN.


The below is a snapshot of the typical speeds I get from my mobile connection.

Occasionally it's a little lower, sometimes higher but its more than enough bandwidth for what I need to do (which includes using Skype for Business for voice calls over the data connection)

For reference a TV over IP service (such as the one my company provides) typically requires a minimum of 4mb for good service although I have had it working reasonably well at just over 2mb

Well, back to the simple version: smartphone, unlimited data (per the purchased plan) and tying it to a computer.

If one has an Iphone, with a contract with, say, Verizon for unlimited data service, cannot that phone be connected to anything via WiFi, and one of those, or the only device, be a computer and so.... a cellular 'Net connection? With unlimited data, for a <reasonable> monthly fee?

And if so, how would the bandwidth of the cellular link be regarding speed? I realize this is a very variable situation, depending on where the cell phone is, how many others are using it and so forth but again, would this provide a viable system for high- speed (compared with dial- up here, not the 300 MBps I have with a wire from the dreaded COX of course) for those who cannot or will not get hard- line, connected, 'Net service?

And if not, what would be the failure point (given the conditions I already listed: unlimited data plan and one computer)?

My wife has a cellular data link (I do not know the correct term) that is just that- a data link, that connects to a computer via USB; she is required to have it with her for work due to regulatory agencies.... long story. It works OK, ranging from reasonable to terrible but never great, and the data is absolutely NOT unlimited but sold in blocks ,and fairly expensive. It would be prohibitively expensive for anyone who uses a computer a fair amount every day. So I know they are available and not viable but again, I am talking about a package that is meant to be used with a smart phone, not a generic digital link.

Brian

[B.D.F.]

Well, now I am going to have to fire up my wife's Iphone and do some speed tests on that. That phone is NOT linked to an unlimited account although the 'bank' of data hours is quite large, it is shared by four people (I think) although they do not often exceed the limit.... and even when they do, they have the option of 'upgrading' to a higher data limit plan for that one month so there is not really any penalty for going over, merely the slight extra fee. But at any rate, it should be easy enough to try and I can do the same speed tests.

BTW: my VPN really slows down my bandwidth; it will exceed 300 Mbps routinely w/out VPN, stick a local VPN link in the way and it drops to ~40 Mbps and if a litle more distance is used (depending on where the VPN 'is' on the other end), it can and will drop below 10 Mbps. Then again, it is a cheap VPN so probably not the 'poster child' for great bandwidth.

But as Verizon is offering unlimited data for ~70 / month, it may be interesting to look into the alternate forms of TV that we have already discussed here (Netflix, Hulu, ad nauseum) and cut that wire off the side of the house. I would need a second phone line or at least a 'virtual' phone line to fend off the bottom feeding scum while still having a phone number I could give to everyone but that might just work....

Brian

Possibly the easiest way to answer that is.


From time to time (especially If I'm out & abut but technically working)  I set my phone up as a wifi hotspot and connect my works laptop up to it then access the company systems via VPN.


The below is a snapshot of the typical speeds I get from my mobile connection.

Occasionally it's a little lower, sometimes higher but its more than enough bandwidth for what I need to do (which includes using Skype for Business for voice calls over the data connection)

For reference a TV over IP service (such as the one my company provides) typically requires a minimum of 4mb for good service although I have had it working reasonably well at just over 2mb

[maxtog]

Well, back to the simple version: smartphone, unlimited data (per the purchased plan) and tying it to a computer.

If one has an Iphone, with a contract with, say, Verizon for unlimited data service, cannot that phone be connected to anything via WiFi, and one of those, or the only device, be a computer and so.... a cellular 'Net connection? With unlimited data, for a <reasonable> monthly fee?

Not without violating your terms of service, no.

And if so, how would the bandwidth of the cellular link be regarding speed?

I kinda already answered that, above.  It depends on lots of factors, it can be anywhere from very slow to extremely fast.

[B.D.F.]

Yeah well, that's me: a violator. <looks to the left, looks to the right> Let me tell ya' Max, back in the olden' days, I used to connect <looks again, both ways> TWO televisions AND a VCR to the cable coming into my house. And that was strictly Verboten! I am just a wild man like I tells' ya'.

Reminds me of a funny story I will post in the thread about nothing at all....

Brian

Not without violating your terms of service, no.

I kinda already answered that, above.  It depends on lots of factors, it can be anywhere from very slow to extremely fast.

[maxtog]

From time to time (especially If I'm out & abut but technically working)  I set my phone up as a wifi hotspot and connect my works laptop up to it then access the company systems via VPN.

Which is perfectly allowed under most plans.  But no plan in the USA on ANY CARRIER (and probably there either) allows that to be done on an "unlimited" data plan AND pull from the "unlimited" high-speed data pool (it is usually a separate, capped, data pool).  Which means you will hit caps.

Now, there are technical ways around it so it CAN be done, which requires unlocking the phone, rooting the phone with nefarious tools, installing special utilities.  Doing so could then enable wifi hotspot access to your "unlimited" data pool- which will violate your terms of service (the contract you signed with your provider).  And they can and do catch people.  It is not necessarily criminal, just civil.  So they could just warn you, they could terminate your service, they could ban you, they could damage your credit rating, and they could also sue you for lost revenue (I doubt that is ever done, though).

On MY T-Mobile plan, I have a older (grandfathered in) 6GB plan.  So they don't care how I use the data because it is not "unlimited."  Tethering from that pool works great, is very fast, and is built right into the phone- it is one, shared, high-speed data pool.  But their standard "unlimited" phone plan includes only very slow, 3G tethering (wifi-hotspot).  If you pay $10 more a month, you can then retain the "unlimited" high-speed data on the phone and also add 10GB of high-speed tethering (wifi-hotspot) and after 10GB, it drops to very slow 3G data speeds for tethering.  And when I say slow, I mean SLOW.... like only a little faster than the fastest dialup modem speeds.

Verizon calls their main phone plan "unlimited" and then clearly indicate after 22GB it will drop to the "lowest priority speed."  But they include 10GB of high-speed tethering data which after 10GB drops all tethering to 2G speed (which is like having no data at all).  Want to use just tethering data with a dedicated hotspot?  Sure thing!  They have a plan for that device which is $110 for 20GB (for example).  If you are trying to replace a home cable modem and have multiple users and stream HD video regularly and such... you are probably using WAY more than 20GB.   But not to worry, they have a 50GB plan for $335 a month!

Sprint/AT&T are much the same.

You cannot get unlimited high-speed cellular data (LTE/4G) without breaking your terms of service (which is like service theft).  At least not in the USA (which is what I am most familiar with) and I speculate it is the same for every carrier in the world.

[maxtog]

Yeah well, that's me: a violator. <looks to the left, looks to the right> Let me tell ya' Max, back in the olden' days, I used to connect <looks again, both ways> TWO televisions AND a VCR to the cable coming into my house. And that was strictly Verboten! I am just a wild man like I tells' ya'.

Shhhhh!!! 

[mikeyw64]

If I activate a Wifi Hotspot on my phone and connect to anything in the outside world I appear as though I am coming from the same IP address as my phone so therefore  the data is all coming out of the same pot.

 My provider, unless they start doing some very deep stateful packet analysis and detect its a type of traffic that can't be generated on a mobile device, cant tel whether or not I am using the phone or the laptop or tablet connected via the wifi hotspot.
(And I know they can't because I work for them and know the guys on the mobile & network side of things  )


It's the same as with your home broadband router, to the outside world and to my ISP all the traffic is coming from the same device, they can't tell how many devices I have connected behind the router (pronounced rooter BTW, anything else is a tool for using on wood)

Of course this works on the presumption you live in a free world where you can do what you want with your devices without your provider tying one of your hands to your ankle


That said my phone (the works supplied Motorola G4 Plus) is completely stock & non rooted. I just use the built in android functionality

Which is perfectly allowed under most plans.  But no plan in the USA on ANY CARRIER (and probably there either) allows that to be done on an "unlimited" data plan AND pull from the "unlimited" high-speed data pool (it is usually a separate, capped, data pool).  Which means you will hit caps.

Now, there are technical ways around it so it CAN be done, which requires unlocking the phone, rooting the phone with nefarious tools, installing special utilities.  Doing so could then enable wifi hotspot access to your "unlimited" data pool- which will violate your terms of service (the contract you signed with your provider).  And they can and do catch people.  It is not necessarily criminal, just civil.  So they could just warn you, they could terminate your service, they could ban you, they could damage your credit rating, and they could also sue you for lost revenue (I doubt that is ever done, though).

On MY T-Mobile plan, I have a older (grandfathered in) 6GB plan.  So they don't care how I use the data because it is not "unlimited."  Tethering from that pool works great, is very fast, and is built right into the phone- it is one, shared, high-speed data pool.  But their standard "unlimited" phone plan includes only very slow, 3G tethering (wifi-hotspot).  If you pay $10 more a month, you can then retain the "unlimited" high-speed data on the phone and also add 10GB of high-speed tethering (wifi-hotspot) and after 10GB, it drops to very slow 3G data speeds for tethering.  And when I say slow, I mean SLOW.... like only a little faster than the fastest dialup modem speeds.

Verizon calls their main phone plan "unlimited" and then clearly indicate after 22GB it will drop to the "lowest priority speed."  But they include 10GB of high-speed tethering data which after 10GB drops all tethering to 2G speed (which is like having no data at all).  Want to use just tethering data with a dedicated hotspot?  Sure thing!  They have a plan for that device which is $110 for 20GB (for example).  If you are trying to replace a home cable modem and have multiple users and stream HD video regularly and such... you are probably using WAY more than 20GB.   But not to worry, they have a 50GB plan for $335 a month!

Sprint/AT&T are much the same.

You cannot get unlimited high-speed cellular data (LTE/4G) without breaking your terms of service (which is like service theft).  At least not in the USA (which is what I am most familiar with) and I speculate it is the same for every carrier in the world.

[mikeyw64]

Bugger, just noticed the price on my unlimited personal SIM (3G) has gone up from £12 to £13.25 (approx $17 ) per month



Admittedly the speeds are a little slower than on my Works SIM (4g) but still more than usable on the road if I do need to use it

[maxtog]

If I activate a Wifi Hotspot on my phone and connect to anything in the outside world I appear as though I am coming from the same IP address as my phone so therefore  the data is all coming out of the same pot.

That is your phone... not most phones here 

Of course this works on the presumption you live in a free world where you can do what you want with your devices without your provider tying one of your hands to your ankle

And there you have it!  Carriers here are quite, shall we say, "controlling"

That said my phone (the works supplied Motorola G4 Plus) is completely stock & non rooted. I just use the built in android functionality

I have a Nexus 5- it doesn't get much more stock and vanilla....  I believe the stock Android tether application has concessions (spyware if you like) for the carriers so it would be approved to ride on their network.

Again, I am not arguing it can't be done.  It *can* be done.  It takes effort here to make it work.  But when all is done, you are still breaking the terms of your agreement.  I am just trying to make that clear to everyone so it isn't a surprise.  I don't know all tools at the carriers' disposal, but they do catch people.  Some of the tools I know about are monitoring data usage totals, and patterns, and examining browser ident strings.  I doubt they spend much effort enforcing it on the people who are just using a few GB more than their tether plan allows.

There isn't as much push for people to mod their phones for breaking tethering restrictions anymore- the main reason is that in the past, there were no "unlimited" data plans, but the carriers were assholes and STILL locked things down and didn't let people tether.  That made no sense at all, since it was already a limited plan.  Most people weren't trying to run a whole house every day (nor would they have enough data to do so) but wanted to occasionally use their laptop or tablet on the go with the data they paid for.  Eventually the carriers caved and allow that tethering.  When the "unlimited" plans started, most of the carriers had already learned the lesson, so they included the ability to tether a LIMITED amount of high-speed data for occasional use.  That seems to satisfy the vast majority of people who even want/need to tether.

[maxtog]

Admittedly the speeds are a little slower than on my Works SIM (4g) but still more than usable on the road if I do need to use it

I just tested mine on T-Mobile on my ancient phone with a moderate LTE 4G signal in my house using the same app as you.  Got only 2.1Mb/s down and 3.71Mb/s up.  Strange, I have never seen it that slow before, nor have I ever seen upload be so much faster than download.  Retested and with another app, same result.  Hmm.  Admittidely I am rarely off Wifi while at home or work, so it has been a while since I have tested. 

As a side note, just tested my home Cox connection- getting 62Mb/s down and 7mb/s up; that is pretty normal/typical for the plan.

[gPink]

Not having this conversation is why I am quite satisfied with my phlipfone. 

[Conniesaki]

Yeah well, that's me: a violator. <looks to the left, looks to the right> Let me tell ya' Max, back in the olden' days, I used to connect <looks again, both ways> TWO televisions AND a VCR to the cable coming into my house. And that was strictly Verboten! I am just a wild man like I tells' ya'.

Reminds me of a funny story I will post in the thread about nothing at all....

Brian

And to you I declare a retroactive ! No longer available

[mikeyw64]

I presume by the way you are using a CellPhone supplied by a Carrier as part of a contract ?


In that case it may well be crippled by the carrier although it does appear from what I'm reading here that those changes are far more restrictive than over here.


Of course evn in the US of A you have the option of buying and using vanilla non carrier specific phones that don't have any carrier imposed restrictions on


https://www.bestbuy.com/site/clp/why-buy-an-unlocked-phone/pcmcat284300050008.c?id=pcmcat284300050008

Now ok you may argue why should I pay several hundred dollars for something I get as part of my contract?

Well the truth is  that (and unless the US is vastky different) you are not getting your contract phone for free, a big chunk of your monthly fee is to pay for the phone.

As an example (& forgetting my uber special I was lucky to get on plan referenced above)

A sim only plan giving 30Gb data, Unlimited Voice & Unlimited Texts is £42 per month from a major UK carrier

The same Plan with an iPhone7 Plus included is £68 per month (plus £19.99 upfront), a Samsung Galaxy S8 on the same Plan is £63 per month

In other words you are paying £26/£21 per month for the above phones


That said I tend to stay away from the big name /big price phones when buying.


The last one I bought , which is currently my spare phone, was a Wileyfox Storm which cost me £180 outright.

It's an Android powered smartphone that is as equally capable as a iPhone or a Samsung, just doesn't have the brand snobbery

That is your phone... not most phones here 

And there you have it!  Carriers here are quite, shall we say, "controlling"

I have a Nexus 5- it doesn't get much more stock and vanilla....  I believe the stock Android tether application has concessions (spyware if you like) for the carriers so it would be approved to ride on their network.

Again, I am not arguing it can't be done.  It *can* be done.  It takes effort here to make it work.  But when all is done, you are still breaking the terms of your agreement.  I am just trying to make that clear to everyone so it isn't a surprise.  I don't know all tools at the carriers' disposal, but they do catch people.  Some of the tools I know about are monitoring data usage totals, and patterns, and examining browser ident strings.  I doubt they spend much effort enforcing it on the people who are just using a few GB more than their tether plan allows.

There isn't as much push for people to mod their phones for breaking tethering restrictions anymore- the main reason is that in the past, there were no "unlimited" data plans, but the carriers were assholes and STILL locked things down and didn't let people tether.  That made no sense at all, since it was already a limited plan.  Most people weren't trying to run a whole house every day (nor would they have enough data to do so) but wanted to occasionally use their laptop or tablet on the go with the data they paid for.  Eventually the carriers caved and allow that tethering.  When the "unlimited" plans started, most of the carriers had already learned the lesson, so they included the ability to tether a LIMITED amount of high-speed data for occasional use.  That seems to satisfy the vast majority of people who even want/need to tether.

[maxtog]

What makes me crazy and annoyed.

Wearing a new helmet INSIDE waiting to see if it causes pain because if I "ride" with it, I can't return it.  It is a new experience posting on the computer, vacuuming, paying bills, and watching television WITH A HELMET ON.  The cats are rather confused, too.

[B.D.F.]

Did that myself once in a store, wore it for as long as I could and finally bought it. It was a Nolan, on sale, and not returnable: turned out that it put undue pressure on the sides of my head and I could not wear it for more than 20 minutes or so. And of course I was in Tacoma, WA, when I bought it :-(  So I left it and had my son ship it to my house while I wore my old helmet on the ride home.

Eventually sold it for almost what I paid for it so all was fine but I think it took 2 or 3 years.

One of the things that kinda sux about long rides on a motorcycle is that we usually do not find out what works or does not work until we try it, and then only after several hours usually. A saddle may feel great for an hour but may make you hate it after three hours. Outfitting a motorcycle so all parts work together to allow hours of time in the saddle is expensive and can take a long time and a lot of effort.

Brian

Wearing a new helmet INSIDE waiting to see if it causes pain because if I "ride" with it, I can't return it.  It is a new experience posting on the computer, vacuuming, paying bills, and watching television WITH A HELMET ON.  The cats are rather confused, too.

[Rhino]

Did that myself once in a store, wore it for as long as I could and finally bought it. It was a Nolan, on sale, and not returnable: turned out that it put undue pressure on the sides of my head and I could not wear it for more than 20 minutes or so. And of course I was in Tacoma, WA, when I bought it :-(  So I left it and had my son ship it to my house while I wore my old helmet on the ride home.

Eventually sold it for almost what I paid for it so all was fine but I think it took 2 or 3 years.

One of the things that kinda sux about long rides on a motorcycle is that we usually do not find out what works or does not work until we try it, and then only after several hours usually. A saddle may feel great for an hour but may make you hate it after three hours. Outfitting a motorcycle so all parts work together to allow hours of time in the saddle is expensive and can take a long time and a lot of effort.

Brian

Being on a long motorcycle ride finding and finding out that your helmet/seat/handle bar risers/hwy pegs/<enter something here> is still infinitely better than being in the office on the best day.  But have found that almost any helmet that feels ok at first, but then has pressure points, will again feel ok after wearing it enough. Within some tolerance, it will take on the shape of your head. The question is how much pain before it does.

[B.D.F.]

Don't know about that, I have a pretty nice office :-)  And I have had some truly awful motorcycle rides; the first ride for more than an hour continuously, on the highway, with the C-14 was four hours each way, all done in one day. By the end of the day, we were dreading climbing onto the bike and the legs of the ride were down to ~30 minutes each. Pretty bad. We ended up folding our jackets in half and padding the saddle with them just to get home.

As far as the helmet, I was certainly not tough enough to even try to force that Nolan into any new shape. Again, after 30 minutes continuous, the pain was bad enough that I had to either stop somewhere and take it off or take it off and ride back to where I was going. Choose the latter (Easy Boys! it is not as if I killed any puppies). Was in WA at the time and had no idea if they have a helmet law or not but was to the point of taking the chance.

And while we use a Corbin with a pair of Airhawks and can ride for many hours in reasonable comfort and no butt pain, a plain Corbin will reduce me to hating that bike in 45 minutes. And after ridign it in the morning, my butt is sore all day in an office chair, and the ride home 8 to 10 hours later is far more painful, far faster than 45 minutes.

Some motorcycle combinations and individual components should have been around ~600 years ago 'cause they are far more effective than that sissy torture stuff such as the rack, the iron maiden and so forth.

Brian

Being on a long motorcycle ride finding and finding out that your helmet/seat/handle bar risers/hwy pegs/<enter something here> is still infinitely better than being in the office on the best day.  But have found that almost any helmet that feels ok at first, but then has pressure points, will again feel ok after wearing it enough. Within some tolerance, it will take on the shape of your head. The question is how much pain before it does.